Is anyone shocked by the poverty on the islands that the cruise visits?

[Aquahound]

My last 2 posts were pulled cause I broke the rules, along with some others. Sorry, Terry. I'll be good now.

 

Poverty in the islands isn't exactly a secret. But we as tourists have to remember to respect their land and their ways. Besides, people should be researching their destinations before going there.

[on board]

Can't say I was SHOCKED, just SURPRISED as hell it appears so bad.

I'LL NEVER GO BACK TO THE CARIBBEAN AGAIN, YOU CAN HAVE IT.

 

 

CIAO,

 

It is too bad you are allowing this to keep you from enjoying other aspects of the beautiful Caribbean. Just the weather, water will take me back there. In fact we are thinking about doing an all inclusive to 3 Islands thinking about buying a small piece of land and building a vacation home for our family members and for us to visit. You can avoid the slum areas if needed.

Too bad what a loss for you! :confused:

[on board]

There are a lot of parts of this country where it is very difficult to find a physician who will accept the amount that "welfare insurance" pays. The hospitals get paid at a different rate. By the way, go to an urban emergency room some time with a "minor" complaint. You will be amazed at how long you wait . . . and how many people are actually in the hallways. "ER" isn't much of an exageration in that regard!

 

That said, when I visit many other countries, I say a silent prayer of thanks for being born in the USA. It ain't perfect by a long shot, but I and my family are pleased with what we have.

 

Well I know for sure that all the surrounding hospitals accept the Medicaid, the hospitals in Cincinnati, Ohio and Indianapolis, Indiana also accept it. So.... again if they cannot find a Physician then they just go to the Emergency rooms. But all of whom I was referring to all have Doctors that take care of them but they refuse to wait their turn thinking they are owed something and they think they deserve better or quicker care than we who pay for our own insurance! And let me tell you these people are young, able, unwilling to work! Most are FAT, lazy, and sorry excuse for people that continue to procreate just to get that extra buck!

IMO I really do think the Government should only allow the number of kids they came into the program with and should not cover any other births!

[on board]

There are a lot of parts of this country where it is very difficult to find a physician who will accept the amount that "welfare insurance" pays. The hospitals get paid at a different rate. By the way, go to an urban emergency room some time with a "minor" complaint. You will be amazed at how long you wait . . . and how many people are actually in the hallways. "ER" isn't much of an exageration in that regard!

 

That said, when I visit many other countries, I say a silent prayer of thanks for being born in the USA. It ain't perfect by a long shot, but I and my family are pleased with what we have.

 

Well I know for sure that all the surrounding hospitals accept the Medicaid, the hospitals in Cincinnati, Ohio and Indianapolis, Indiana also accept it. So.... again if they cannot find a Physician then they just go to the Emergency rooms. But all of whom I was referring to all have Doctors that take care of them but they refuse to wait their turn thinking they are owed something and they think they deserve better or quicker care than we who pay for our own insurance! And let me tell you these people are young, able, unwilling to work! Most are FAT, lazy, and sorry excuse for people that continue to procreate just to get that extra buck!

IMO I really do think the Government should only allow the number of kids they came into the program with and should not cover any other births!

[Sally Forth]

As a rule, no. However, I did take children's school items (solar calculators, those inexpensive magic slates) to the school on Fanning Island and presented them directly to the teachers. I had a few mini soccer balls and hair bobbles and negotiated them as part of the price for some handicrafts I bought at both Fanning and Labadee. The children of the people working had HUGE smiles on their faces and the parents had the pride of giving the items to the children as a treat rather than me giving them as charity.

 

I got the "small bills" idea from my niece who works in a gift shop in a tourist area in Canada. She said almost every day an American or Japanese tourist will make a comment about how overpriced things are in Canada and then pull out a US $100 bill for a $5 item and get angry that she can't take it. Folks, lots of place in the US won't take US $100s!

 

Viv

[newmexicoNita]

Well I know for sure that all the surrounding hospitals accept the Medicaid, the hospitals in Cincinnati, Ohio and Indianapolis, Indiana also accept it. So.... again if they cannot find a Physician then they just go to the Emergency rooms. But all of whom I was referring to all have Doctors that take care of them but they refuse to wait their turn thinking they are owed something and they think they deserve better or quicker care than we who pay for our own insurance! And let me tell you these people are young, able, unwilling to work! Most are FAT, lazy, and sorry excuse for people that continue to procreate just to get that extra buck!

IMO I really do think the Government should only allow the number of kids they came into the program with and should not cover any other births!

I think I share many of your views but aren't you coming on a little strong? Maybe this thread is getting a little too political. I was afraid this would happen. NMNnita

[QueenofScreen]

as usual "spewing again" what she knows nothing of, she' needs to find ther other alter egos..

back to the question "are you shocked by the poverty"?

For alot of people the answer is yes. Big difference in monetary things that we are used to or the family values that they developed and we have lost.

It may be shocking to us, but no problem to them. I work with alot of people from islands and areas they we may see as poverty stricken, and I guarantee they make their money here and return to their island asap. They love that life, all they want to do is improve it, not lavish it.

Some of those island's way of life is coveted by the successful:)

[shops54]

as usual "spewing again" what she knows nothing of, she' needs to find ther other alter egos..

Who are you saying is "spewing again"? You are not being clear here. Is it Nita or Viv? Whoever it is you are dissing I object. Why do you think it is ok to have such disparaging thoughts about another human being, much less spread them all over the boards? I just do not "get" mean. Who ARE you!! (Oops, maybe you're my sister. She thinks she's a Queen too;)).

[artha]

I joined the Cruise Critic Message Boards because I thought it would be a great way to get some ideas, as well as some destination questions answered. It has been a great help in finding tour guides; thanks to the message boards, I have booked tours at three of the ports that we will be visiting aboard the Sun Princess. Thank you again for all your help.

 

When I went on-line this morning, I couldn't believe what I was reading. It sounds like a 'bickering board'. Every single person out there has a right to his/her opinion - BUT - I don't think this is the place to vent it! :confused:

 

Can we please just go back to helping each other????

 

Terry

[CPT Trips]

Try Matthew Ch25, v35 to the end.

 

Just FYI, urban ERs and their waiting rooms are not fun places. Few people with alternatives go there for routine care.

[shops54]

Terry,

You are so right. I apologize. I should have just let it pass instead of adding to the "bickering". Forgive me posters. Let's clean this up.

Eileen

[Cactuscruise]

As a traveler I am no more shocked by the poverty of the world, not just the islands, than I am by the poverty right here in the US. Take a road trip through the great United States and you will see levels of poverty that will make your head spin. In reading this thread I saw a lot of stereotypical comments from what appear to be very ill-informed and naive writers. Some of it is just typical American arrogance and it truly saddens me.

[on board]

I think I share many of your views but aren't you coming on a little strong? Maybe this thread is getting a little too political. I was afraid this would happen. NMNnita

 

Yes you are right just as yours has gotten that way also! :rolleyes: Post 45 and 63 just to begin with! :p

 

I do think when we start discussing a subject such as this it always becomes political and we all have different opinions so we can all come off sounding a little strong hu? ;)

[nosmothj]

Just to clear this up, it was not the same hurricane, Grenada was hit in the fall of 2004 and New Orleans in 2005.

 

Grenada was hit twice the island with out side help has completed most of the repairs and has also built a new cricket staduim and are hosting the championship. Also it was not one areaa that got damaged it was the whole island. Bet folks in NO with there goverment would help out the same way.

[newmexicoNita]

Yes you are right just as yours has gotten that way also! :rolleyes: Post 45 and 63 just to begin with! :p

 

I do think when we start discussing a subject such as this it always becomes political and we all have different opinions so we can all come off sounding a little strong hu? ;)

 

you are probably right and it is hard to stay away from what appears to be a little bit of politics when we get started. Nita

[ciderapple]

As a traveler I am no more shocked by the poverty of the world, not just the islands, than I am by the poverty right here in the US. Take a road trip through the great United States and you will see levels of poverty that will make your head spin. In reading this thread I saw a lot of stereotypical comments from what appear to be very ill-informed and naive writers. Some of it is just typical American arrogance and it truly saddens me.

 

 

I totally agree. All I have to say is that it does not shock me it just saddens me.

[Cruisesquatch]

" I'm not well off--far from it--and I have to scrimp and save for every trip. It makes me appreciate what I have a lot more, it reminds me how fortunate I am, and it also inspires me to try to do more for others. "

That pretty much sums it up for me as well.

 

My cruise was the first time I was outside of the U.S. (other than Canada),

and I was a little taken aback by what I saw on Dominica. Three walled shanties with livestock living in and around the domestic area.

But, I must add, the people were very nice.

On the way back onto the ship, there was an elderly woman selling little paper flowers near the dock for a dollar each. The first thing I thought of was "Thats probably someones grandmother". I gave her my last five bucks for one. It was kinda heartbreaking.

 

That being said, I'm looking forward to my trip in April.

Guess I'll just stay away from Jamaica and Haiti.

[LHP]

All of our travels (from cruises to land tours) have shown our 2 boys how very blessed we are. They have gone to many, many ports in their 15 cruises and have seen how others, financially less fortunate than we are, live. We visited with the bedouin in their tents, when we were in Israel.

 

In these travels we (as parents) have also strived to teach both our boys to respect people from these other ports. True, they may not have our financial priviledges, but they are usually very proud people who work hard to care for their families. Not just people in the ports, but those who sail with us as staff and crew. When the boys are talking with them, I had better hear "yes, mam or sir" and "please and thank you" . Because they have earned our respect.

 

Both the boys know how blessed we are and that it can all be taken away in the blink of an eye...so money had better not be what you are building your self esteem on.

 

Both the boys have done volunteer work all their lives. (even our youngest who is a special needs child) He has learned he can bring a smile to a nursing home patient in about 2 seconds...and he loves it.

 

So the poverty does not shock us as much as it encourages us to see the "value" in all the hard working people of the world.

[mlbcruiser]

THIS is the very reason to TRAVEL, by any means - plane, ship or whatever. If we didn't, we wouldn't learn about other places and their problems or their prides. We wouldn't know enough to help them and we wouldn't fully realize just how great we have it. One of the reasons we are sometimes treated rudely is how would YOU feel if you thought people were always feeling sorry for you, thought you lived a tragic life - or one not as good as they live - or looked down upon you? Or complained about something deemed not quite up to snuff in a $300 or more per nt. luxury hotel that must seem like accommodations for royalty to them? And believe me, not ALL locals feel like they are deprived because they don't live OUR WAY.

 

I think it was in Conde' Nast (or some other travel magazine) not long ago I read about a young man who was working for a resort in the Dominican Republic or someplace. He was given an apt. to live in on the grounds. He was saving money to get a good nest egg and planned to return home & marry eventually. Prior to his hotel job he had been used to living basically "outdoors" w/a roof over his head but no real walls. He actually didn't like air conditioning and the feeling of being closed in. He liked his old life better!

 

RE: Jamaica - Since it was mentioned in previous posts so much, I want to mention that I, too, have vacationed there. Yes, there are some very seemingly impoverished people. But there are also many people who grow their own food and herbal medicine plants, eat pretty well, some who go to work everyday and lead fairly well contented lives. And there are those w/money, although not the percentage of wealthy people we have. They have their joys and sorrows just like we do. And don't feel they are so disadvantaged. We stayed at an all-inclusive luxury resort in Negril since my dh had to for his meeting. But we certainly drove ALL OVER the place to towns far away along the coast, into tiny towns and up into the lush hillsides in Jamaica. We did this during afternoons and days my dh didn't have meetings. We did things on our own and not on organized tours. We got off the beaten path many times, stopped at little stores in towns for ice cream or food, and such. Many times we had to rely on the locals for information, directions and advice. Once a man helped us to start the car when we were having trouble w/it and would not accept any money for his help. We were told by locals that one of their biggest problems is alcohol and ganga use among a certain element, undermining breadwinners and productive members of society. Jamaica is a long way from true third world countries on other continents where food is hard to come by due to drought or something.

 

I like to travel so that I can look at things from some other culture's perspective; to see how others really live. It seems to me that only those who live in a shell, don't watch the news or much t.v., never see travel documentaries, read or feel inquisitive about other places in our world can be naive enough to be shocked by lifestyles in a typical caribbean country. If you are, you are the ones who MOST NEED TO TRAVEL!

[LA_FadeAway]

THIS is the very reason to TRAVEL, by any means - plane, ship or whatever. If we didn't, we wouldn't learn about other places and their problems or their prides. We wouldn't know enough to help them and we wouldn't fully realize just how great we have it.

 

I totally agree with this post! Traveling can really open your eyes to the real world. I also didn't find Jamaica to be "that bad" compared to other countries I've visited, such as Cambodia or Guatemala. I spent a week and a half in Jamaica, traveled all over the island independently, and had a blast. I think people visiting only by cruise ship get a very distorted image of the island due to the concentration of poor people who gather around the ports to try and make money off the tourists.

[newmexicoNita]

I totally agree with this post! Traveling can really open your eyes to the real world. I also didn't find Jamaica to be "that bad" compared to other countries I've visited, such as Cambodia or Guatemala. I spent a week and a half in Jamaica, traveled all over the island independently, and had a blast. I think people visiting only by cruise ship get a very distorted image of the island due to the concentration of poor people who gather around the ports to try and make money off the tourists.

My views did not come strictly from cruising: we did an AI and were told by the resort management not to leave the grounds for any reason without a guide or employee.

 

NMnita

[mlbcruiser]

NMNita, I respect your opinion because I have seen your name on posts on CC threads before and know you have no doubt done some traveling before - and even getting off a ship in a port is traveling to me! At least you are seeing SOMETHING of another place in the world, which is admirable.

 

I don't know what resort you stayed at in Jamaica, but we have friends that went down for their dd's wedding just the year before us and stayed at an all-incl. near Negril. We, too, stayed in that vicinity, at the Grand Lido, a VERY nice resort. Our friends were told to stay on their resort, and they pretty much did. I asked the resort workers and concierge at our resort about safety issues and renting a car. They ALL told us we would be safe enough if we traveled during the day and used common sense. They were right. My dh and I drove ALL over the place within about a 3 hr. drive's range via car from our resort w/out incident. (Our worst thing was fending off a would be "guide" who expected a big tip!) I've heard so many people say their resort told them not to venture off the property. I'm not saying that crimes don't happen, but I think they are more rare than some would have us believe. Caution & good sense are necessary, and not only in Jamaica. (Read a tour book about our own country written for those outside the U.S. and take note of the warnings - esp. in regard to Miami, NY, DC and other popular tourist areas!) The locals we spoke with and who helped us w/directions and so forth were all very nice and seemed to want us to enjoy their island. I felt the little things we learned and observed OFF the all inclusive were well worth risking going off of our resort. And I hope the money we spent helped the local economy. I think SOME resorts often issue warnings because sometimes things DO happen, esp. w/people who set themselves up - wearing their fancy jewelry or who seem to be easy prey due to physical frailties, etc. Then word gets out and people blame the resort for not warning them. (Also warnings might be given because they want to make money off of any excursions their guests want to take.) Sure, I wouldn't advise my 84 yr. old Mom to go traipsing around the backroads of Jamaica even w/a friend, but then, I wouldn't advise her to do that ANYWHERE, even in the U.S.A. One more thing, I think if a tourist looks either fearful (like we EXPECT something bad to happen, which is insulting) or act haughty ("better than") the locals, that might lead to ill will.

 

At any rate, I still agree w/LA_Fade Away, and could NEVER go to a place on vacation and not venture off the resort property. And I think the caribbean islands aren't that much "third world" compared to other places in the world.

[LA_FadeAway]

mlbcruiser, you make great points. I should have included those staying in All-inclusive resorts with those visiting by cruise ship when I said they get a distorted view of Jamaica. For whatever reason, the AI resorts like to use fear to keep their patrons locked inside the "compound". I'm guessing it's like you said... to either sell excursions, spa visits, whatever or to cover their own behinds in the off chance that something were to happen. I honestly never felt unsafe and didn't even get approached my many vendors except the occassional rasta selling ganja. No big deal at all. I've felt much more unsafe in parts of Los Angeles, where I live now, and Atlanta, my home town!

[goneclear]

Boy do some people live a sheltered life.

 

As an example look at Grenada one of the less deelpoed islands. Hit by the same hurricane that hit New Orleans. That Isalnd has been rebiult on look at New Orelans. Its clear that most people who cruise have some money, The poverty in any USA city can be compared to any island. Homeless food lines run down appartments with out power or water.

 

Take a look at your own back yard and clean it up before passing judgement on others.

 

Hey thanks for the support;)

Do you know why most cruise ships are not registered in The U.S. They dont have to stick to U.S minimum wages and get cheap labour. Guess where a large % of the cruise ship labour comes from?? Imagine if all foreign workes stoped working on cruise ships and they had to hire U.S labour. guess what? a large % of us would not be able to cruise again

[newmexicoNita]

NMNita, I respect your opinion because I have seen your name on posts on CC threads before and know you have no doubt done some traveling before - and even getting off a ship in a port is traveling to me! At least you are seeing SOMETHING of another place in the world, which is admirable.

 

I don't know what resort you stayed at in Jamaica, but we have friends that went down for their dd's wedding just the year before us and stayed at an all-incl. near Negril. We, too, stayed in that vicinity, at the Grand Lido, a VERY nice resort. Our friends were told to stay on their resort, and they pretty much did. I asked the resort workers and concierge at our resort about safety issues and renting a car. They ALL told us we would be safe enough if we traveled during the day and used common sense. They were right. My dh and I drove ALL over the place within about a 3 hr. drive's range via car from our resort w/out incident. (Our worst thing was fending off a would be "guide" who expected a big tip!) I've heard so many people say their resort told them not to venture off the property. I'm not saying that crimes don't happen, but I think they are more rare than some would have us believe. Caution & good sense are necessary, and not only in Jamaica. (Read a tour book about our own country written for those outside the U.S. and take note of the warnings - esp. in regard to Miami, NY, DC and other popular tourist areas!) The locals we spoke with and who helped us w/directions and so forth were all very nice and seemed to want us to enjoy their island. I felt the little things we learned and observed OFF the all inclusive were well worth risking going off of our resort. And I hope the money we spent helped the local economy. I think SOME resorts often issue warnings because sometimes things DO happen, esp. w/people who set themselves up - wearing their fancy jewelry or who seem to be easy prey due to physical frailties, etc. Then word gets out and people blame the resort for not warning them. (Also warnings might be given because they want to make money off of any excursions their guests want to take.) Sure, I wouldn't advise my 84 yr. old Mom to go traipsing around the backroads of Jamaica even w/a friend, but then, I wouldn't advise her to do that ANYWHERE, even in the U.S.A. One more thing, I think if a tourist looks either fearful (like we EXPECT something bad to happen, which is insulting) or act haughty ("better than") the locals, that might lead to ill will.

 

At any rate, I still agree w/LA_Fade Away, and could NEVER go to a place on vacation and not venture off the resort property. And I think the caribbean islands aren't that much "third world" compared to other places in the world.

We were staying at FDR AI just outside of Ocho Rios. I agree the Caribbean Islands, overall are not any worse than some of the major cities right here at home. As for your adventures in Jamaica, I would imagine quite a few tourist do as you did, have a great time and never run into any danger. I still would not wander off on my own there. As for acting fearful, you are right about that. Many years ago DH, DD and myself were in DC. DH on business and us to sight see. One night while DH was out having dinner with an associate DD and I decided to take a taxi to a little Irish restaurant. When we found out the place was only 3 blocks from the Hyatt, where we were staying we decided to walk back rather than pay the taxi fare. Like much of DC it was a really seedy area even though it was close to the capital. The two of us just walked right down the middle of the sidewalk like we knew what we were doing, we didn't stop for anything and we arrived at the hotel with no problems. Of course hubby was quite upset when he learned what we had done. NMNita