Is anyone shocked by the poverty on the islands that the cruise visits?

[conversationist]

In my hometown we have some parts of town that are not so nice but they are deluxe in comparison to some of the Islands I have visited on cruises. I have to admit that I was shocked at some of the poverty stricken towns the cruise ship docked at (or near).

 

Many of the people who live in these tropical islands, which are sold as paradise by the cruise lines, are in terrible straits. I have to admit I was shocked by it all. I did not expect it and thought third world poverty was in Africa or Asia, not some place sold as paradise by the Cruise-lines.

[newmexicoNita]

I am sure most of us have been shocked by what we have seen on these islands: there are more resembling 3rd world than those with a modest standard of living. That being said; we do have to realize, to many of those who live on the islands, life is simple and good. They don't understand our life style and we don't understand theirs.

 

One thing that does bother me, or a couple of things actually; the first, some of the islanders resent us so much they are down right rude. I often wonder what their lives would be like without tourism. The second, I wonder if sometimes, we Americans, and those from other capitalistic countries are so errogant (spelling?) we invite the negative feelings they have toward us. They see us, as nothing more than spoiled, rich snobs that look down to them. NMNita

[agabbymama]

I am sure most of us have been shocked by what we have seen on these islands: there are more resembling 3rd world than those with a modest standard of living. That being said; we do have to realize, to many of those who live on the islands, life is simple and good. They don't understand our life style and we don't understand theirs.

 

One thing that does bother me, or a couple of things actually; the first, some of the islanders resent us so much they are down right rude. I often wonder what their lives would be like without tourism. The second, I wonder if sometimes, we Americans, and those from other capitalistic countries are so errogant (spelling?) we invite the negative feelings they have toward us. They see us, as nothing more than spoiled, rich snobs that look down to them. NMNita

 

NMNita,

I don't think our attitude has anything to do with it. When I went to Jamaica, one tour bus driver that saved me from an embarassing encounter with some of the locals, advised me that resentment is there, strictly because you can afford to travel. I spent as much for my daughter and I to go to Jamaica as most Jamaicans make in a year, so to them we are wealthy. I tried to explain to him, if I didn't work, I wouldn't be able to travel, that I wasn't wealthy by any means, but he said to these poor simple people they just don't get that. Just the fact that I was there shows to them I'm wealthy. Now the doctors and lawyers and even a lot the workers that work in the resorts and hotels, know better, but the average Jamaican only sees that we are spending on a vacation what they work all year for. I would imagine all the islands would be the same.

 

I had the land vacation in Jamaica and cruised from San Juan to St. Martin and St. Thomas. I have no plans to go back to the Caribbean, largely for this very reason.

[Fredr]

Hello,

 

It is disturbing to me to see the tragic poverty of some of the islands visited by cruise ships, but just think how much worse these islands would be without tourism.

 

And I find it interesting that the islands that are very impressive economically are the ones where political leaders and society in general seem to care about issues such as education. They also seem committed to a free market economic system that doesn't neglect the poor, and strives to increase the middle class. Sadly Jamaica is not one of these countries despite having considerable natural resources, astonishing natural beauty, and an immensely talented population (Colin Powell's parents were from Jamaica).

 

Nita...hope all is well with you. Our next cruise iis in late March, to Mexico on the Ryndam.

 

Fred

[provenienbam]

I once had a hotel holiday in Gambia (Africa). The poverty there was astonishing. Our maid took us to her home/compound. In a 15x15 there would be up to 8 people living and sleeping. She was lucky, she had just got married and had a young child so the family helped build a 12x12 room so they could have some privacy.

 

She worked in the hotel and the pay was almost neglible. It was the tips that kept her and her family (all 20 of them) 'well off' by other standards.

 

For the tour she arranged for us around the town and her home we paid her the going excursion rate: circa $100 for the two of us. Apparently that was enough money to send her kid to school for the next 5 years.

[on board]

The poverty did surprise me somewhat but DH had traveled more out of the Country than I had and knew exactly what we were in for. He can remember traveling to Jamaica 20 years ago and children begging for their chicken bones and gum. Would this ever keep me from visiting these Islands? Absolutely not! As long as we feel safe while we are there we will continue to go back and enjoy the warm weather, and wonderful waters!

[caribbean dreams]

.

 

They see us, as nothing more than spoiled, rich snobs that look down to them. NMNita

 

I actully had a conversation with a local about this issue, When he told me the price of an excursion, i say it was to much and I could not afford to take the family, he then went off saying, what do you mean? all of you Americans are rich......He told me he made $10 a day and his rent was $100 a month, I told him that i made much more but my rent was also much more, I really never helped him to understand we are more alike than different.

[LadyV_39]

I am sure most of us have been shocked by what we have seen on these islands: there are more resembling 3rd world than those with a modest standard of living. That being said; we do have to realize, to many of those who live on the islands, life is simple and good. They don't understand our life style and we don't understand theirs.

 

One thing that does bother me, or a couple of things actually; the first, some of the islanders resent us so much they are down right rude. I often wonder what their lives would be like without tourism. The second, I wonder if sometimes, we Americans, and those from other capitalistic countries are so errogant (spelling?) we invite the negative feelings they have toward us. They see us, as nothing more than spoiled, rich snobs that look down to them. NMNita

 

ITA with you on most points. However, I do have an issue about your statemtn that their lives are simple and good. I am going solo on a cruise on the Carnival Miracle in less than two months. I went on a land vacation to Jamaica six years ago and spoke to a number of locals and I can tell you that many of the people on the islands make much less per year than what I'm paying for this cruise. Many can't feed their families and the services that we take for granted (police, fire trucks, etc) are unreliable or downright nonexistant. That's why the vendors in certain islands are so aggressive because if they weren't, they and their families may not be able to eat. So they have to struggle every day.

[newmexicoNita]

NMNita,

I don't think our attitude has anything to do with it. When I went to Jamaica, one tour bus driver that saved me from an embarassing encounter with some of the locals, advised me that resentment is there, strictly because you can afford to travel. I spent as much for my daughter and I to go to Jamaica as most Jamaicans make in a year, so to them we are wealthy. I tried to explain to him, if I didn't work, I wouldn't be able to travel, that I wasn't wealthy by any means, but he said to these poor simple people they just don't get that. Just the fact that I was there shows to them I'm wealthy. Now the doctors and lawyers and even a lot the workers that work in the resorts and hotels, know better, but the average Jamaican only sees that we are spending on a vacation what they work all year for. I would imagine all the islands would be the same.

 

I had the land vacation in Jamaica and cruised from San Juan to St. Martin and St. Thomas. I have no plans to go back to the Caribbean, largely for this very reason.

I don't mean so much what we do or do not do, but how we are precieved; some of it is our attitude in general. This isn't all bad, I didn't mean to imply that, but we are viewed as rich and spoiled. Jamaica is one place I would not return to and if I cruised there I would most likely not get off the ship. The islands I do love: Aruba, Curacao, Barbados and Cozumel. I think Roatan is beautiful with friendly people but so 3rd world country. I can't think right now, but there are other ports we have been happy with, oh yes, Dominica, and yet many I wouldn't want to visit a second time. NMNita

[shops54]

Conversationist,

YOu raise many good questions on these boards; I really appreciate your thoughtfulness. It has taken me many years to come back to the Islands because of the disparity between us and them. I find it very difficult to get my arms around this whole idea of their poverty. The only way I could book another cruise was to decide ahead of time to pay the vendor's price and then tip extra rather than haggeling(sp). I know in my heart it won't make a difference but somehow I want to give some of my excess to them. I also am disturbed by what the workers on the cruise ships have to do to support their families. Some of the women leave for 4 months at a time - and more. Some of the men and women never get to watch their families grow up. So I just tip really big and remember that at least their famillies have an income - if they don't have a parent and spouse. I know that many of the ones I talk to are only doing this until they save X amount of dollars so I try to get them to their goal sooner. Such a sad reality. It really makes me ache inside. I'm not sure how to resolve it.:(

[dforeigner]

Conversationist,

YOu raise many good questions on these boards; I really appreciate your thoughtfulness. It has taken me many years to come back to the Islands because of the disparity between us and them. I find it very difficult to get my arms around this whole idea of their poverty. The only way I could book another cruise was to decide ahead of time to pay the vendor's price and then tip extra rather than haggeling(sp). I know in my heart it won't make a difference but somehow I want to give some of my excess to them. I also am disturbed by what the workers on the cruise ships have to do to support their families. Some of the women leave for 4 months at a time - and more. Some of the men and women never get to watch their families grow up. So I just tip really big and remember that at least their families have an income - if they don't have a parent and spouse. I know that many of the ones I talk to are only doing this until they save X amount of dollars so I try to get them to their goal sooner. Such a sad reality. It really makes me ache inside. I'm not sure how to resolve it.:(

 

The way I see it, these individuals are responsible and care for their families. The bottom line is that most do not know how good we have it here in the US, Canada, UK, etc.

 

One does not know what they have until it is gone.

[isujim]

Shocked??? NO.............BUT............it sure stands out and looks different and more real than the video one might see on NBC Nightly News

[Spikesgirl]

We visited a small village outside of Xi'an - poverty took on a whole new face for us. We were dismayed, but having been forwarned, had brought along some gifts (pencils, crayons, small toys, ect. no candy though). Despite their gut-wrenching poverty, each child was clean and his or her clothes, while not new, were mended and cared for - not something you could say about their parents. It made me realize just how much some parents sacrifice for their children and a whole new appreciation of how extremely lucky we are.

 

Charlie

 

P.S. it certainly made me think the next time I sat down at a table about whether or not I needed that larger (or second) helping

[newmexicoNita]

ITA with you on most points. However, I do have an issue about your statemtn that their lives are simple and good. I am going solo on a cruise on the Carnival Miracle in less than two months. I went on a land vacation to Jamaica six years ago and spoke to a number of locals and I can tell you that many of the people on the islands make much less per year than what I'm paying for this cruise. Many can't feed their families and the services that we take for granted (police, fire trucks, etc) are unreliable or downright nonexistant. That's why the vendors in certain islands are so aggressive because if they weren't, they and their families may not be able to eat. So they have to struggle every day.

I think I probably over simpified my statements: I do believe to them, their lives are simple. I don't think good was the right word to use. They struggle, that's for certain, but I don't think many of them understand what a really good life is; maybe a better word to use is acceptance. Yes, many of them beg for a few pennies when we visit their country but this again, is their way of life. Many do work, they support their families and are proud of their lives and their country. You see this when you do tours. NMNita

[tip]

Although Guatemala is not an island, my wife and I made a stop there on a cruise last year. We took an excursion to a banana plantation. After seeing the deplorable working conditions (they wouldn't let us take pictures for obvious reasons) and learning that the average pay is seven dollars per DAY, I vowed that I would never complain about the price of bananas again! The next time you shop think about products that are fair trade!

[Aquahound]

As Americans, we have to remember that our opportunities are far greater than any other country in the western hemisphere, or the world for that matter. We are the world's only super-power and the leader of capitalism. Being used to all this, we have to consider the lifestyles of the places we visit. The majority of the world is a very poor place.

 

One thing that really irritates me is seeing our tourists acting rude and arrogant to those who live on the islands. It is their home. Granted, they need our tourist dollars. But still, it is their home. Living in a tourist town myself, I see this daily. Every winter, we are inundated with northerners and Canadians who have no respect for our local laws or communities. It's a shame. And, this has led to local hatred of certain visitors. I can see how some island locals would be rude to tourists. They're probably tired of dealing with their crap.

[Kurbanfan]

Conversationist,

I also am disturbed by what the workers on the cruise ships have to do to support their families. Some of the women leave for 4 months at a time - and more. Some of the men and women never get to watch their families grow up. So I just tip really big and remember that at least their famillies have an income - if they don't have a parent and spouse. I know that many of the ones I talk to are only doing this until they save X amount of dollars so I try to get them to their goal sooner. Such a sad reality. It really makes me ache inside. I'm not sure how to resolve it.:(

 

Somehow this does not disturbe me. Maybe because I spend more time thinking about our men and women fighting for our freedom overseas. You know the ones that are gone from their families months at a time. Not even getting rewarded tips for doing such a fine job.

Ok maybe a little sarcastic but.........sorry I couldn't help myself....

But I think the reality is these crew members feel fortunate to have a good paying job (yes good paying for what they would make in their own country) Alot even have been crew members for over 10 years.....that says something in itself.

[dyslexic pirate]

The corruption festering inside their governments (not to mention the controlling drug lords) is what keeps these people trapped in a cycle of poverty.

 

Jamaiicans don't resent tourists. They resent the fact that their government won't LET them leave even if they have the money to do so. They have a very twisted system involving bribes etc. to get visas. Alot of money is paid to get visas that are promised only to have them cancelled at the last minute.

 

They say it's like a slap in the face to those that want to leave to watch the people board the ship so casually and sail away.

 

This was all told to me by a local school teacher the first time I visted Jamaiica.

[steveaaaa]

The corruption festering inside their governments (not to mention the controlling drug lords) is what keeps these people trapped in a cycle of poverty.

 

Jamaiicans don't resent tourists. They resent the fact that their government won't LET them leave even if they have the money to do so. They have a very twisted system involving bribes etc. to get visas. Alot of money is paid to get visas that are promised only to have them cancelled at the last minute.

 

They say it's like a slap in the face to those that want to leave to watch the people board the ship so casually and sail away.

 

This was all told to me by a local school teacher the first time I visted Jamaiica.

What was she smoking?

Their goverment won't let them leave?

 

The question is what country will take them.

Steve

[on board]

I for one, and I know I will be flamed for this but here it goes anyway, It is not my fault that these people live there, bred there, or are born there. Do I feel sorry for them, well if I look at it from some of the standpoints listed here sure I do. Do I feel sorry for the kids? Yes, but to a certain extent, they don't know any different because they have never had it any different. We as Americans can only take care of so many. I will continue to visit because I enjoy the weather and some places of interest. Their poverty will not keep me away, but it will not influence me to just hand money over to them either. They need to work for their income as MOST of us do here in United States. Don't get me wrong we donate more than our share every year.

I think these sorrows and sympathy should be steered toward our people here in the USA. And yes Kurbanfan you are so right. Because of these brave men and women we are living in a free Country, so we should think about them, each and everyone one of us that are working , that are retired, and to the ones that will be working in the future we all are doing a job that contributes to our Government and our freedom. So not only do our soldiers deserve respect all that have and are and will be working deserve the same respect! And certainly not the ones that are sitting on their Duffs because they are lazy and think they deserve a free ride in this Country.

Sorry about the preaching!!

JMO! :D

[dforeigner]

Although Guatemala is not an island, my wife and I made a stop there on a cruise last year. We took an excursion to a banana plantation. After seeing the deplorable working conditions (they wouldn't let us take pictures for obvious reasons) and learning that the average pay is seven dollars per DAY, I vowed that I would never complain about the price of bananas again! The next time you shop think about products that are fair trade!

 

I Mexico, the minimum wage used to be 4 dollars a day. I believe it just went up to 6 bucks a day.

[discjoker]

I for one, and I know I will be flamed for this but here it goes anyway, It is not my fault that these people live there, bred there, or are born there. Do I feel sorry for them, well if I look at it from some of the standpoints listed here sure I do. Do I feel sorry for the kids? Yes, but to a certain extent, they don't know any different because they have never had it any different. We as Americans can only take care of so many. I will continue to visit because I enjoy the weather and some places of interest. Their poverty will not keep me away, but it will not influence me to just hand money over to them either. They need to work for their income as MOST of us do here in United States. Don't get me wrong we donate more than our share every year.

I think these sorrows and sympathy should be steered toward our people here in the USA. And yes Kurbanfan you are so right. Because of these brave men and women we are living in a free Country, so we should think about them, each and everyone one of us that are working , that are retired, and to the ones that will be working in the future we all are doing a job that contributes to our Government and our freedom. So not only do our soldiers deserve respect all that have and are and will be working deserve the same respect! And certainly not the ones that are sitting on their Duffs because they are lazy and think they deserve a free ride in this Country.

Sorry about the preaching!!

JMO! :D

 

I agree!

[waiting2retire]

Am I shocked by the poverty? No. I am saddened by it, sickened by some of it, but not shocked. I know that there is terrible poverty in this world, and thousands dying every day due to the deplorable conditions in which they live.

 

Does it mean I am not entitled to go to their beautiful islands and spend some of my hard-earned money supporting their local economy? Does it mean that I need to be ashamed or embarrassed that I have a better life than they do?

 

It helps to keep me humble and incredibly grateful to recognize that I have what I do by virtue of whatever twist of fate allowed me to be born and live in a wonderful country where living conditions are among the best in the world and opportunities to better oneself are abundant.

 

I cannot bring myself to bargain down prices in a local market. I would feel no triumph whatsoever in keeping an extra $5 in my pocket, when it would mean more food or education for their families. I also tip well when it is warranted.

 

Rather than looking at the poverty, I try to focus on the people themselves. Some are happy, some are not. Some are nice, some are not. Some are rude, some are not. That makes them just the same as the rest of us, doesn't it?

 

And Aquahound, I have the opportunity to visit your lovely state once or twice a year, and take offence at your general characterization of "Canadians" as being people who have no respect for your local laws or communities. I will remind myself to stay away from your community.

 

Okay, I'm off my soapbox, but boy that felt good...

 

Bonnie

[Genessa]

I don't know if I'm callous or realistic. The poverty doesn't shock me or particularly sadden me, because life isn't all about how much money you have.

It does make me appreciate all the more the life that I have, but doesn't ever cause me to flaunt it.

 

We are nowhere near wealthy, have enough money to go on a cruise sometimes yearly, sometimes every other year.

 

Neither my dh nor I grew up with money. We were both working class poor. We didn't do without food, but we didn't have a lot extra. We had some toys, but not enough for a toy shop like some of the kids today have. My bicycle, which was a hand me down from first my sister, then from my brother, was a prize possession, until it was passed down to another brother. And that didn't harm me, or bother me. It just was.

 

Sometimes I think as people who are used to many material comforts we can't understand how people can be happy without them.

 

I've heard people on cruises comment on houses without glass in the windows and no air conditioning. We spent 10 days on Puerto Rico, out in the country, with a dear friend and his family. If many of you saw how they lived, you would say "third world", but despite not having hot water (they collected their water in a tank on their roof - it got heated by the sun - hot water) and no glass in their windows (what for??? to block the air?) and no air conditioning - not necessary. Their house looked like one of the typical houses you see on the islands - cinder block (not the most beautiful look) very practical. Cool when you want it cool, warm when you don't.

 

Their college educated children walked around barefoot on their farm and down the road. They raise animals for food and had pigs and chickens and goats walking all around. And they were some of the nicest, most polite, cheerful, and happy people we've ever met, with books in their home, enjoying family activities and working together.

 

Not simple and happy, but happy living simply. They "looked" dirt poor, but weren't.

But, if they were to try to keep a family of 12 in NY on the money they make there, they couldn't.

Just like, if you took my younger brother and his family, who live okay in Maine, and put them in NY, with the money they make, they couldn't make it.

 

Getting off my soap box.

[elodie]

The poverty really saddens me, no matter how many times I see it, it is never any easier to take. When I was in Mexico, I struck off the beaten track and went out into the other parts of the city. Once you left the nice blocks of shops that were polished up for the tourists, the buildings were falling apart, there were people sleeping on the streets, etc. I don't think I will ever forget the tiny girl who came up to me to sell me gum. It was heartbreaking.

 

I will admit, it makes me feel guilty to sit on my ship in port and know that down in those towns with the lovely views, there are people suffering. I'm not well off--far from it--and I have to scrimp and save for every trip. It makes me appreciate what I have a lot more, it reminds me how fortunate I am, and it also inspires me to try to do more for others.