HAL-Disappointment

[kryos]

I am serious, I would love the opportunity to help others, as an assistant cruise director or in a new position or both. With cruise ships having to adhere to the ADA, what better way to adhere than to have an onboard wheelchair user?

They certainly shouldn't have laughed ... because you were pursuing the matter seriously, but perhaps the reason they didn't take you seriously was because it would seem that someone from the cruise staff would have a very difficult time doing that job in a wheelchair. Those people have to be all over the ship, work long hours, and do some physically demanding tasks. Perhaps if you were applying for something like purser's staff, or an office/administrative position, they would have been more accommodating.

 

I'm not saying this to justify their behavior by any means ... just trying perhaps to figure out a reason for it?

 

Blue skies and good luck to you ...

 

--rita

[wheelchair cruiser]

kryos,

You are right, but I can get everwhere they do and I am used to long hours. Working at the front desk would be great also. As long as I could meet people and help them.

[niborHS]

What would been interesting to find out, wheelchair, is whether they have to abide by the anti-discrimination guidelines that the US Dept of Labor has. Work at the front desk would be difficult because the set-up is such that the counter would have to be lowered to accommodate you. However, something like concierge or cruise consultant would certainly be something you could handle. If an employee laughed, it is because of their ignorance, not necessarily an HAL policy.

[mamaofami]

One insensitive HAL employee doesn't speak for the whole line. If you really are interested in working for HAl, why not contact the main office and see what they have to say. I'm sure there must be some job that you could do and some accommodations they could make for you. I don't believe that HAL is bound by American Disability Act since they aren't registered in America.But there are humanitarian laws. Check it out and don't write off HAL because of one employee.

[MercedMike]

Everyone, you're right. I was following what was told to me by the crew of the Noordam, following protocal, on applying for a new position onboard. When the reception found that I was in a wheelchair and seeking employment, it was like she laughed at me and didn't take me seriously!

 

I am serious, I would love the opportunity to help others, as an assistant cruise director or in a new position or both. With cruise ships having to adhere to the ADA, what better way to adhere than to have an onboard wheelchair user?

 

I am more than qualified, being in a wheelchair for about 27 years and having a college degree. And my running a trucking company should prove to everyone that I can get the job done.

 

You are most likely watching closely -- what is the latest on cruise ships and the ADA?

[MercedMike]

kryos,

 

You are right, but I can get everwhere they do and I am used to long hours. Working at the front desk would be great also. As long as I could meet people and help them.

 

Well, I have to wonder about that one. I am sure you could perform the office duties, but crew members have other duties that would seem to me to be impossible in a wheel chair. Just as an airline stew in a special wheelchair might be able to make announcements and serve coffee, she might not be able to perform the emergency duties which are a major requirement for the job.

 

Since usually for boat drills, and very possibly in an emergency, elevators are not operating, how would a wheelchair staff member perform their emergency duties? Stairway guide, boat officer, cabin search? To be honest, it appears that in an emergency a wheelchair crew member becomes a liability, not an asset, and probably two other crew members would have to be detached to assist one. Frankly, it seems to me that alone would make it pretty much impossible for a wheelchair person to perform the minimum duties of the job.

 

This is not in any way intended to be personal -- it is an honest observation of the duties of any crew member position.

[canadagal]

I am sorry that the girl laughed at you........that's really unfortunate and uncalled for but I agree with the others that you should not let one person put you off of pursuing employment and you should contact head office and see what they have to say. You certainly have the personality for working with people so go for it.........you have nothing to loose.

[bepsf]

With cruise ships having to adhere to the ADA...

 

 

No Foreign-flagged lines have to adhere to the United States Americans with Disability Act.

 

And just as an Airline will not hire individuals for flight crew in wheelchairs, neither will cruiselines - primarily for safety reasons.

[MercedMike]

No Foreign-flagged lines have to adhere to the United States Americans with Disability Act.

 

Well, that's why I asked wheelchaircruiser to update us --

 

Because there has been talk of late that ships which call in the US and board large number of American pax will indeed be subject to the ADA, just as they are now subject to health inspections from the CDC.

 

I don't know if it is just talk or if it has actually progressed to proposed legislation.

[MercedMike]

No Foreign-flagged lines have to adhere to the United States Americans with Disability Act.

 

"To resolve the conflicting circuit court rulings, the Supreme Court granted certiorari and, in June 2005, theoretically resolved the split by holding that foreign cruise lines that dock at U.S. ports must provide better access to handicapped people. Spector v. Norwegian Cruise Line, Ltd., 125 S. Ct. 2169 (2005). However, the various Justices' opinions fell short of specifically stating what kind of modifications must be made to foreign cruise ships to bring them into compliance with the ADA.

In a decision reminiscent of the split between the underlying Fifth and Eleventh Circuits, the Court's 6–3 ruling, authored by Justice Kennedy, writing for the majority, joined by Justices Stevens, Souter, Ginsburg, and Breyer, said Congress clearly intended for Title III of the ADA to apply to foreign cruise lines even though the 1990 legislation is silent on the issue. Justice Kennedy wrote:

• To hold there is no Title III protection for disabled persons who seek to use the amenities of foreign cruise ships would be a harsh and unexpected interpretation of a statute designed to provide broad protection for the disabled.

But Kennedy also stated to the extent that it creates "too much" international discord or disruption of a ship's internal affairs, cruise lines need not comply with the ADA under a provision of the statute that calls only for "readily achievable modifications." In contrast, Justice Scalia's dissenting opinion, joined by Chief Justice Rehnquist and Justice O'Connor, indicates that they would hold that Title III does not apply to foreign-flagged cruise ships at all because it affects the internal order of foreign-flag cruise ships and exposes them to conflicting international obligations."

 

 

 

So, it seems that as usual SCOTUS has muddied, rather than clarifying, the waters. I don't know what has happened since 2005, though ... that was why I asked.

[hammybee]

When the reception found that I was in a wheelchair and seeking employment, it was like she laughed at me and didn't take me seriously![/size][/font]

I am serious, I would love the opportunity to help others, as an assistant cruise director or in a new position or both. With cruise ships having to adhere to the ADA, what better way to adhere than to have an onboard wheelchair user?

I am more than qualified, being in a wheelchair for about 27 years and having a college degree. And my running a trucking company should prove to everyone that I can get the job done.

 

Would a pax on an plane who wanted a fun job of helping people, begin their quest for employment by asking the pilot for a job? Is it possible that reception did not take seriously that a pax would apply in person for a CD, or some other new unspecified position, regardless of the wheelchair?

 

Accommodation of a disabled person seeking to use the amenities of a cruise ship does not imply accomodation for purposes of employment. It is probably physically and financially impractical to make the necessary accommodations in a typical shared crew cabin, let alone the various safety factors.

 

And lastly, having a college degree and running a trucking company does not necessarily qualify anyone for a position on a cruise ship. And this has nothing to do with a disability. Those on the front lines have to have a thick skin and not take personally the behaviors and real or inferred intentions of the general public. That you inferred the behavior of one employee was sufficient to cause you to consider canceling a future cruise, suggests that this kind of work may not be the best use of your education and skills.

 

The perceived glamour of these positions is in the eyes of the beholder. I think the reality is quite different.

[Jana]

No Foreign-flagged lines have to adhere to the United States Americans with Disability Act.

 

 

Well, that's why I asked wheelchaircruiser to update us --

 

Because there has been talk of late that ships which call in the US and board large number of American pax will indeed be subject to the ADA, just as they are now subject to health inspections from the CDC.

 

I don't know if it is just talk or if it has actually progressed to proposed legislation.

 

 

 

 

So, it seems that as usual SCOTUS has muddied, rather than clarifying, the waters. I don't know what has happened since 2005, though ... that was why I asked.

 

Actually, there has been action, and it's very interesting. They're accepting comments right now. Read the actual proposal to get a better sense of it, it's intuitive and easy to skip the parts that make no sense :o

 

http://cruisecritic.com/news/news.cfm?ID=1925

 

Jana

[wheelchair cruiser]

Thanks jana, for posting the link.

bepsf, you do not know what you are talking about! Foreign-flagged vessels, as well as airlines, that embark and disembark on American soil must adhere to the ADA! While this is just a proposal until April, just think about the bad press a disabled person could cause a cruse line for not adhering to the ADA.

hammybee, the receptionist didn't know the job I was applying for.

Just because someone is confined to a wheelchair, does not mean said wheelchair is attached. Every person with a disability is different and unique, they may have the same injury but differ in their defencieies.

I am sure HAL would much rather have to address the issue of an "abandon ship" for the wheelchair user than the bad press he/she could create. You know, they are an EOE.

Back to my quest, did you know the CD of the Noordam did not enen know if a certain port was accessibile? On paper, it may have been; in actuality it was not.

[wheelchair cruiser]

To all who say "you can't because of safety reasons", what would our Founding Fathers have done if they had listened to those who said, "Freedom is not worth the trouble."?

[Jade13]

I agree that these jobs are not as glamerous as they appear. Many in the hospitality industry, including culinary institutions do there externships aboard cruise ships.

 

We spoke to some of the wait staff and as far as I understood the indonesian cooks and waiters on Veendam didn't have days off for months. We never saw any of them get off in ports. This was different from the singers/dancers who couldn't wait for their days off to check out a port.

 

The staff has to be "On" 24/7.

[wander]

I was on a HAL cruise several years ago when the older brother of a woman I had gotten to know onboard died. He was also a passenger. By all her reports, the crew could not have been any more helpful for the several days it took before we reached the next port.

[wheelchair cruiser]

What you say isn't glamorous doesn't mean it's not glamorous. I work 14 hour days or longer, I hardly ever take time off. If you enjoy what your doing, it's glamorous!

[Jana]

What you say isn't glamorous doesn't mean it's not glamorous. I work 14 hour days or longer, I hardly ever take time off. If you enjoy what your doing, it's glamorous!

 

What a fabulous statement! I'll have to remember that.

 

My daughter, an interior designer, worked (until last week) in a very fancy showroom at the Pacific Design Center in Los Angeles. She called it the "house of $10,000 Mirrors." The clientele was movie stars and rock stars and Beverly Hills matrons. She hated it and left to go freelance, she's got a couple of her own clients and she's working hourly for a small design firm.

 

I, on the other hand, work from home in a cramped and cluttered and very messy office. I often work overnight to make deadlines, and tear my hair out in frustration. My job is glamorous! If I ever doubt that, as I am rummaging through piles to find that one slip of paper on which I wrote down the information I need, I will think of you and your statement!

 

On another note, unfortunately, Brian was correct in his statement about foreign-flagged ships. To date. The cruise lines adhere somewhat because they want to, not because they HAVE to. They are fighting mandatory compliance with everything they've got. This proposal from the DOT is just the first step, and it relates to discrimination, not access.

 

Brian, my daughter and I have still not made it to The City, but we're planning a long weekend sometime in late spring. I'll contact you so we can meet!

 

Jana

[Oceanwench]

Wheelchair cruiser,

 

First, I would not be put off by one rude person in HAL's front office. Perhaps that person was embarrassed or didn't know how to deal with you, and covered this by laughing. Maybe it was a nervous reaction.

 

Second, you cannot reasonably expect the CD to know if a port is accessible.

What are you asking about: transportation? stores? restaurants? facilities?

are there curb cuts in the sidewalks? ramps? accessible restrooms?

 

Generally a CD is not going to have an answer to such a broad question.

And it's been my experience that people who do not have accessibility issues aren't always aware of barriers to accessibility.

 

A CD, for instance, will tell you that a certain tourist site is accessible. You get there -- and there's a step. Doesn't matter if it's one step or 20 to some people -- a step can be a barrier to a person in a wheelchair.

A person who does not have to deal with accessibility issues doesn't always understand the *real* meaning of accessible.

[hammybee]

[quote name=wheelchair cruiser;

hammybee' date=' the receptionist didn't know the job I was applying for.I

 

Back to my quest, did you know the CD of the Noordam did not enen know if a certain port was accessibile? On paper, it may have been; in actuality it was not.[/size][/font]

 

I am sorry I did not make myself clear. Regardless of the position, cruise ships do not do onboard hiring.

 

The CD is an employee of the cruise line. It is is the cruise line's best interest to sell shore excursions, not to hand out ad hoc travel advise to pax. As it relates to assessabiltiy issues, there is no way for a CD to reasonably know how assessable anything in port is, or not. And that it was, last week or month does not mean it currently is. In other words, there is no way a CD can be expected to respond to such a question.

[hammybee]

Actually, there has been action, and it's very interesting. They're accepting comments right now. Read the actual proposal to get a better sense of it, it's intuitive and easy to skip the parts that make no sense :o

 

http://cruisecritic.com/news/news.cfm?ID=1925

 

Jana

 

These developments are relative to the necessary accommodations for paying guests. They have nothing to do with acommodating disabled employees performing their job functions, while at sea.

[hammybee]

One insensitive HAL employee doesn't speak for the whole line. If you really are interested in working for HAl, why not contact the main office and see what they have to say. I'm sure there must be some job that you could do and some accommodations they could make for you. I don't believe that HAL is bound by American Disability Act since they aren't registered in America.But there are humanitarian laws. Check it out and don't write off HAL because of one employee.

 

The HAL home office is bound by the ADA. Employment on board a ship is not covered by the ADA or the IRS, for that matter.

[Jana]

These developments are relative to the necessary accommodations for paying guests. They have nothing to do with acommodating disabled employees performing their job functions, while at sea.

 

Um... so what? It's a response to the questions about what has happened with accessibility issues since the Supreme Court ruling.

 

Someone got up on the "haughty" side of bed this morning.

[hammybee]

[/font]

 

The HAL home office in Seattle is an EOE. It's shipboard employment is not however, bound by U.S. employment laws, including the ADA, wage/hours nor the IRS. The ships are not registered in the U.S. and most ships spend most of their time in international waters.

 

At the risk of being perceived as Jerko of the year, it seems to me that you had a great cruise experience and in your own words, were the hit of the cruise. That this spontaneously compelled you to decide that it was your burning desire to be employed onboard a cruise ship and to seek employment while on board, suggests a certain degree of impulsiveness and naiveness.

[hammybee]

Um... so what? It's a response to the questions about what has happened with accessibility issues since the Supreme Court ruling.

 

Someone got up on the "haughty" side of bed this morning.

 

Jana, You are probably right that I woke up with something this morning- one of the things is that I am grateful that I am not, at this moment, physically disabled. As such, I have no way of really understanding what it is like to be so.

 

To tell you the truth, I am overlooking the entire issue of disability as it relates to this thread. The OP's situation is something I experienced, first hand with my own daughter. She had a wonderful cruise, several years ago. The crew, our tablemates and other pax made her feel very special. She got the bee in her bonnet then, that she wanted to get a job on a cruise ship and talked to many of the crew and officers about doing so. The difference was that she was, 10 years old. Eight years later, she continues to love to help people and enjoys the attention it brings her. She is a special needs, young adult and it is unlikely it will ever be practical for her to seek or obtain employment on a cruise ship.