Thread Discussing Rolls Royce Mermaid Pod ("Pod") Issues Affecting Celebrity Vessels

[mathewsman]

Is there any news on the Summit Alaska cruises?

[Shipreck]

Blue Cats

Do you happen to have a daily planner that can be posted? I'm on the April 8 trip also.

[Drew B]

And I really doubt that a change in schedule on a cruise to Hawai'i is due to a pod problem. The LAST thing that Celebrity needs is for a ship to go "dead in the water" midway between the west coast and Hawai'i due to concurrent failure of both pods. It would be absolute stupididty to send these ships on that type of itinerary with pods that are not working correctly.

 

 

Can you please explain to me what pod problems would have to do with being "dead in the water"? When bearings start to wear, they reduce speed as a preventative measure to prevent further damage from happening to the pod. When the ship reduces speed thusly (roughly 25%), it takes away essentially ALL wear on the pods. There is no appreciable risk of being left "dead in the water" due to any pod issues that have ever occurred on X. Even if both pods began showing appreciable wear, they could slow down and safely get to whereever they need to go - it may just take a day longer if the ship is halfway between California and Hawaii. Even bringing up a phrase like "dead in the water" fuels unnecessary hysteria. Pod problems are not and have never been a safety issue!!!

 

This also brings up another potential solution to the pod problem that I mentioned a few months ago. It is a low-tech and inexpensive solution. X would merely have to rewrite their itineraries so that all of the intervals between ports can be accomplished even at reduced speeds. They can choose ports that are closer together or insert at-sea days between ports that are further apart. If passengers actually got the exact itinerary they booked, they would be MUCH happier, even if that itinerary involved slower travel. Moreover, I heard speculation that the reason why Constellation hasn't had the same degree of pod problems is because her itineraries are less agressive (i.e. slower travel, shorter distances between ports) than those of her M-Class brethren. Perhaps if all 4 ships did less taxing itineraries, the bearings would never wear again...

[Captain Cosmo]

Hi all - One of the posts on this thread notes that Infinity had a pod replaced just before her South America tour in late November 2006. As I've previously posted the ship had problems with its starboard pod (electrical?) in late December and has been unable to hit her top speed since then. Does anyone know which pod was worked on when she was in drydock? Just trying to figure out if the "new" pod is working or if it has a different set of problems. Thanks!

[Drew B]

I did not want you to misunderstand that the "dead in the water" quote was from another poster on this thread who feels that the Infinity is not having a pod problem, even though the facts say that Celebrity has announced that time will be cut from ports on all of the next four cruises for the Infinity.

You are correct that the chance of both pods failing at the same time is remote. I do agree with the last sentence of that quote that said "It would be absolute stupidity to send these ships on that type of itinerary with pods that are not working correctly".

 

My point, though, was that even if both pods "failed", the ship would not stop. They could very safely and easily continue to sail it at the reduced speed and the bearings would hold for days if not weeks.

 

When bearings start to wear it is indicated by metal shavings in the oil and this monitored by ship personnel. These shavings are caused by metal grinding on metal. Slowing down the ship will no doubt reduce the amount of this grinding but will NOT as you said "take away essentially ALL wear on the pods"; they will continue to wear. You are also correct, as of this date, "that there have been no safety issues because of pod failures.

 

That's not what I was told. They told me that slowing down cuts out [essentially] ALL of the wear -- otherwise, they would just immediately cancel any affected cruise. If the bearings continued to wear, it causes too great a risk to the other elements of the pod. Replacing a bearing isn't too expensive (not including the dry dock fees and the costs affiliated with cancelled cruises) while replacing an entire pod and all of its mechanical elements would be HUGELY expensive.

[mcnyc]

Does anyone know what the chances are that near future Infinity cruises will be cancelled? We're unfortunately on one of them, and while I would love to remain hunky dory about things, it's not easy for me to take time away from work. What issues will cause X to cancel a cruise with pod problems?

[Drew B]

From what I understand, the recent (South American) Infinity problems were electrical rather than due to worn bearings. Also, replacing a bearing that has never shown signs of wear may not accomplish anything positive. It's not like a bearing that has been in there for 9 months has worn a bit and will be worn enough soon that it will need to be replaced. They can detect microscopic degrees of wear, and when they do, that's when they slow down. A brand new bearing could begin wearing just as soon or even sooner than a bearing that has been in use for a while.

[woodofpine]

X would rather keep "fixing" a bad system delivering erratic service throughout than bite the bullet financially to replace the system as a fix. Of course, it can be argued that they can't afford the down time to replace the system and that may be true. But the consumer is going to scratch his head thinking, "They can build the Solstice class, but can't replace these prop systems?".

 

Of course, X is going to be in fight with RR regardless; RR isn't going to "admit" anything that entails 8-9 figures of liability.

 

These substandard systems have now been with the line for 5+ years, and will be for another 10-15 regardless of what happens in Court. After a 20 year run the hulls will be sold to a another company that will replace the Mermaid system and the hulls will go another 10-20 years when the metal will hit the beach with the breakers.

 

Whatever happens in Court will go to the company bottom line rather than to a replacement or substantial fix. The success or failure of the M-class propulsion system is not driven by the trial litigators; it's the other way around IMHO.

 

In the meantime X will be like Altoid Mints, "The Premium cruiseline with the distinctively quirky cruise schedules!" :D

[c-legs]

Hi all - One of the posts on this thread notes that Infinity had a pod replaced just before her South America tour in late November 2006. As I've previously posted the ship had problems with its starboard pod (electrical?) in late December and has been unable to hit her top speed since then. Does anyone know which pod was worked on when she was in drydock? Just trying to figure out if the "new" pod is working or if it has a different set of problems. Thanks!

:) Good evening,

True, the late September drydock was NOT for the now almost predictable '' premature thrust radial bearing wear''....but to actually REPLACE a pod unit.

The problems that have plagued GTS INFINITY since are a result of the electrical components of the pod propulsion system starting to show defects themselves....a turn of event one could actually anticipate as a ''sooner or later bound to be happening''-type of event. The electricals were bound to start ''frying'' at some point, having to power a propulsion system so given to weakness over the past 4 years. That's what her problem is now. They're taking it ''easy'' on her until the next visit to her ''2nd home'' , Washington Marine yards in Victoria, BC, late May. At that time, the scuttlebutt has it that ''new // redesigned // rebuilt'' bearings are going to be installed to both pods by Rolls-Royce, and the electricals will get a ''fixer-upper''. She's not in drydock long enough to also get the auxilliary diesel now being programmed into the rest of the '' M '' class ( Connie and Millie this spring in Europe, and Summit next spring, also in Europe )...

Sooner or later, all of this will be fixed.....and life on these boards will be boring....until we find something else to engage our collective minds into interesting dialogue....

 

Happy sailings

Cheers

;)

[Captain Cosmo]

C-Legs, Preacher - thanks for the info. I'll keep my fingers crossed that pod improvements are made at that next drydock as I'm holding a deposit on a March 2008 Infinity cruise.

[LeftcoastBC]

Sound familure ????

From there Press room...

 

"Norwegian Cruise Line (NCL) today announced that Norwegian Dawn will be entering a previously unscheduled dry dock on May 29 to conduct necessary repairs on a thrust bearing in the ship's ABB-manufactured azipod propulsion system. During routine inspections, Norwegian Dawn's engineers identified localized wear in the thrust bearing and in the last few weeks, Norwegian Dawn's itinerary has been changed to reduce speed to limit further wear on the bearing until NCL could schedule the dry dock. This issue has affected only the speed of the vessel and has no impact on the safe operation of the ship. "

 

more on their website

 

Seems whoever ABB is, they also have concerns now.

[woodofpine]

Sound familure ????

From there Press room...

 

"Norwegian Cruise Line (NCL) today announced that Norwegian Dawn will be entering a previously unscheduled dry dock on May 29 to conduct necessary repairs on a thrust bearing in the ship's ABB-manufactured azipod propulsion system. During routine inspections, Norwegian Dawn's engineers identified localized wear in the thrust bearing and in the last few weeks, Norwegian Dawn's itinerary has been changed to reduce speed to limit further wear on the bearing until NCL could schedule the dry dock. This issue has affected only the speed of the vessel and has no impact on the safe operation of the ship. "

 

more on their website

 

Seems whoever ABB is, they also have concerns now.

 

 

http://www.abb.com

 

This will tell you a bit about ABB; coincidentally, the front page notes orders for 19 ships.

 

ABB's "azipods" have also had repair problems however they seem to have largely worked through the worst of it as a developing technology. Rolls-Royce's "mermaid" system seems to have been the lesser of the two competing products as they emerged around the year 2000.

 

ABB is the (acronym now) formal name of ASEA Brown Boverie a Swiss-Swedish concern that specializes heavily in power transmission systems. ASEA was a Swedish concern that merged with Brown Boverie. They are a major player (possibily the biggest) in hydro-electric power transmission as well as locomotives and are headquartered in Zurich.

[fud2468]

We are booked on Infinity to go to Alaska in September. This is to make up for our Alaska trip on Infinity that was cancelled due to pod problems last year. I hate to think the cruise might be cancelled again!

Other cruise lines have stayed with tried and proven propulsion systems and therefore do not have these problems. Why did Celebrity go for such a system in the first place?

Ray Mac

[LeftcoastBC]

www.abb.com

 

This will tell you a bit about ABB; coincidentally, the front page notes orders for 19 ships.

and are headquartered in Zurich.

 

Thanks for the link these are the guys with the "Azipod" system that gets confused with the "Dreaded Mermaids" eh?

 

We are booked on Infinity to go to Alaska in September. This is to make up for our Alaska trip on Infinity that was cancelled due to pod problems last year. I hate to think the cruise might be cancelled again!

Ray Mac

 

Mac... your Infinity will dry dock in Victoria BC just prior to the Alaska season to do another fix. It should be fine for you. Good luck

[woodofpine]

of ABB page... a clich onto "details" in the 19 martime ship orders includes an order from Celebrity for the Solstice Class. An earlier poster wondered whose system would end up in the new builds...

[hermang]

http://www.abb.com

 

This will tell you a bit about ABB; coincidentally, the front page notes orders for 19 ships.

 

ABB's "azipods" have also had repair problems however they seem to have largely worked through the worst of it as a developing technology. Rolls-Royce's "mermaid" system seems to have been the lesser of the two competing products as they emerged around the year 2000.

 

ABB is the (acronym now) formal name of ASEA Brown Boverie a Swiss-Swedish concern that specializes heavily in power transmission systems. ASEA was a Swedish concern that merged with Brown Boverie. They are a major player (possibily the biggest) in hydro-electric power transmission as well as locomotives and are headquartered in Zurich.

Funny but RCCL and others also use PODS - and I have never heard of a Royal Caribbean Ship with a pod failure.

 

Surprising that the NCL which was built by Meyerwerft has problems

 

ABB inherently is or should be reliable - me thinks that people are making too much of a one time event

[mafig]

Funny but RCCL and others also use PODS - and I have never heard of a Royal Caribbean Ship with a pod failure.

 

Surprising that the NCL which was built by Meyerwerft has problems

 

ABB inherently is or should be reliable - me thinks that people are making too much of a one time event

 

RCI does not have mermaid pods on their ships, I don't believe. Their pods have been very reliable.

 

I think the NCL ship (Dawn?) is going into drydock soon. I don't think that four years from now we'll be reading about Dawn's pod problems, at least I hope not, for their sake.

[woodofpine]

There were some earlier problem issues with Azipod (the ABB product) that periodically recur as here. Dawn was launched in 2002 and has one of the earlier designs. It seems though that ABB's Azipod design has been considerably more reliable overall and has design matured much more successfully than the RR's. ABB's older pods have occassionally had bearing-wear problems (similar to the M-Class) but they have seemed easier to fix for much longer periods than the RR M-Class Mermaids.

 

I too thought that RCI's ships were using Azipod. I just googled it and learned that QMII has the Rolls-Royce system. There an article about how Micky Arison sort of read RR "the riot act" on the issue of delays during installation - in some measure due to X experiences that were developing while QMII was being commissioned.

 

The articles online seem use the adjective "troubled" to describe RR's marine unit... with the statement that not many of the constructed Mermaids have founds end users. Apparently, ABB has been able to master a difficult engineering concept in terms of end product performance better than their competitor RR. Unfortunately, X seems to be RR customer whose experience has given ABB the competitive edge in the market.

[RodPat]

Just got off Infinity last Sunday. We went through the Panama Canal. While Celebrity did cut some of the hours in our stops, the Captain made up the time and we arrived early in everyone of our ports. He did his best to give everyone a great experience. We even managed to go 21 knots an hour. We always left at our scheduled time but always got to the next port early. It was a great trip and the pods were no problem to us. The ship is due to go into service May 20 for a week to work on the pods, so anyone going after that will have no problem. Pat

[dagadget]

X would rather keep "fixing" a bad system delivering erratic service throughout than bite the bullet financially to replace the system as a fix. Of course, it can be argued that they can't afford the down time to replace the system and that may be true. But the consumer is going to scratch his head thinking, "They can build the Solstice class, but can't replace these prop systems?".

 

Of course, X is going to be in fight with RR regardless; RR isn't going to "admit" anything that entails 8-9 figures of liability.

 

These substandard systems have now been with the line for 5+ years, and will be for another 10-15 regardless of what happens in Court. After a 20 year run the hulls will be sold to a another company that will replace the Mermaid system and the hulls will go another 10-20 years when the metal will hit the beach with the breakers.

 

Whatever happens in Court will go to the company bottom line rather than to a replacement or substantial fix. The success or failure of the M-class propulsion system is not driven by the trial litigators; it's the other way around IMHO.

 

In the meantime X will be like Altoid Mints, "The Premium cruiseline with the distinctively quirky cruise schedules!" :D

 

 

I think Rolls Royce has a fix for this problem. And they are working on Millie now in France. Millie is going to have the radial thrust bearings replaced on both mermaid pods , with '' new /refit / repaired / re-engineered '' ones, by Rolls-Royce....This is hoped and believed to be a near permanent fix to the chronic problems that have plagued the class since day one....This has been a problem with Summit out west and I have heard of others as well. Going to have to watch this closely now that Millie is going to be down under on the Aussie route soon. Pod problems there will be a bigger problem because of the larger distances involved. Of course the Pods could be replaced with Radiance class Pods from the near identically engineered RCCL ships. And as RCI owns both it makes $$ sense if RR does not fix the Mermaid problems in the near future...........

[carsten]

Just received a letter from Celebrity: Due to pod problems some "slight" adjustments had to be made to the itineary. Turns out they are cutting out the port of Icy Strait Point completely and it will be one more day at sea instead.

 

As compensation they are offering $100 for interior and exterior, $200 per balcony and $300 per suite. That sum is per cabin not per person.

 

Do you think that compensation is adequate and have others made experiences about refunds for port adjustments?

[dkjretired]

Just received a letter from Celebrity: Due to pod problems some "slight" adjustments had to be made to the itineary. Turns out they are cutting out the port of Icy Strait Point completely and it will be one more day at sea instead.

 

As compensation they are offering $100 for interior and exterior, $200 per balcony and $300 per suite. That sum is per cabin not per person.

 

Do you think that compensation is adequate and have others made experiences about refunds for port adjustments?

 

Here's a link to where this has been discussed last week....

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=534270

[melika091900]

we were just on infinity , to hawaii 4/8

and we were aware of the problems months ago

we arrived later in 1 port and got kauai cancelled , ( before i booked the cruise ) and another sea day added,

we got 200 per inside , 300 per balcony etc..

 

i think that is adequate..

 

melissa

[Rev22:17]

carsten,

 

Just received a letter from Celebrity: Due to pod problems some "slight" adjustments had to be made to the itineary. Turns out they are cutting out the port of Icy Strait Point completely and it will be one more day at sea instead.

 

As compensation they are offering $100 for interior and exterior, $200 per balcony and $300 per suite. That sum is per cabin not per person.

 

Do you think that compensation is adequate and have others made experiences about refunds for port adjustments?

 

Well, let's see... Celebrity is giving you a better itinerary and cash back... What's the problem?

 

Seriously, the town of Hoonah (listed as "Icy Strait Point" in Celebrity's itineraries) is not exactly the highlight of the cruise. I think that Celebrity is stopping there in an attempt to boost the local economy of the Tlingit village. There will be more to do on the ship, if she is at sea, than in Hoonah.

 

Norm.

[merela]

I was going to do some research on the town of "Icy Straight Point". I guess there is no need now.