Smoking on the Prinsendam

[prescottbob]

Ahoy!

I've been following this thread and similar ones over the couple of weeks. The issue, of course, is smoking and areas where 'it' is allowed. Being one of society's outcast these days, i.e., an evil smoker, I find the arguments both pro and con interesting (the erosion of personnal freedoms for the smoker versus 'second hand' health issues for non smokers). With this in mind I can tell you that ventilation equipment / technologies exists that can keep a bar/restraunt virtually smoke free regardless of the number of smokers present. This being the case, I would also suspect a small portion of the Lido deck could be ventilated to accomodate paying customers who chose to smoke. I will personally miss sitting at a table by the Lido bar during sea days, having a drink and reading. Would HAL consider utilizing such technolgies for ship's bars, casinos (hello HAL! : people losing money like to smoke!), Lido and, perhaps, other restricted areas? Probably not. Market conditions will set the policies. And so it goes....

Fear not. We will all survive.

Bon Voyage and God bless us all !

Bob

[HeatherInFlorida]

[quote name='Odd Ball']
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3]................................[/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3]They feel changes should be announced with a future date when the change would go into effect. ..... [/SIZE][/FONT]
[/quote]

Maybe it's just me, but this is the one thing I don't understand. A "future date" is always not going to be future for someone.

HAL could announce today that as of November 1, the new smoking policy will take effect. So everyone booked between now and November 1 is aok, but someone with a cruise booked for November 2 is going to say that's not fair.

So there's just no date they can pick that's going to work for everyone. Fortunately for Oddball's friends they've had plenty of notice and since they don't like the new policy they are able to cancel.

However, I would agree that HAL should have set a date beyond 90 days out. This way anyone who is about to make their final payment isn't forced to go on their cruise. So they should either make an exception and let smokers cancel or at least give everyone plenty of notice.

[sail7seas]

[B]Are we sure they are not permitting people who are very seriously aggrieved to cancel? I don't know....I'm asking. It might be possible that some people called when they learned about the new policy, stated their firm objection and asked for refund. Maybe HAL agreed to refund their money??

I realize there will be some people who will not learn about the change until they board their ship. I remember the same thing happened years ago when they first banned smoking in the dining room and when they stopped all smoking in the small section that used to exist in Lido.

I now have a better understanding why the ban at the tables outside Lido means so much to some people. Thank you for explaining.



[/B]

[prescottbob]

Ahoy!

Since we're in the 'crisis mode' over smoking I would also like to add a few things that bother me while cruising and HAL might consider banning (tongue in cheek):

1. Women's perfume use in the bars and dining room: I find it offensive.
2. Overweight people wearing skimpy suits in the pools: So ugly....
3. Senior citizens utilizing canes, walkers and wheel chairs: they do get in
the way don't they?
4. Joggers in the early A.M. : it really makes it hard to navigate the decks.
5. Obnoxious cruisers / complainers : haven't we all been around them?
6. Those with low IQ's, aka travel idiots ("it ain't like this at home"): SAA

Please add to the list. Let's not just focus on 'smokers'. The future is 'ours'. Get the logic?

Bon Voyage and God bless us all,

Bob

[kryos]

[quote name='sail7seas'][B]Too bad they are unhappy about this. I suppose it is inevitable there will be a handful who will find it necessary to cancel. Hope they find something that can meet their needs.
[/B][/QUOTE]
Trust me, if HAL goes any further with this smoking policy ... such as disallowing smoking in the cabins ... it will be far more than "a handful" who will cancel their bookings.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[kryos]

[quote name='gooselace'][COLOR=black]Rita, that's exactly what my friend is objecting to, as she often spends port days on the ship, especially in the Caribbean, where she has been to all the ports, and can't tolerate too much driect sun, which is likely to be the case in the uncovered aft area.

This policy essentially changes the cruise experience of socializing and enjoying the Lido ambience, and I can understand why she is upset. If we are basically limited to smoking in our cabin we could stay home and watch videos of the islands. I can set out a buffet luncheon and some margaritas, and my DH can spray us with the hose when we go out on our deck. For the $4,000 plus we'll probably spend on HAL, he might even set up a wading pool and serve those drinks. [/COLOR]
[/QUOTE]
My feelings exactly. Also, something else that was pointed out to me today ... if one is an early riser, using the aft deck for coffee and a cigarette is often not feasible since HAL personnel are often busy hosing down that deck area in the early morning hours.

More than anything else, it's losing that small section of smoking tables under the magranome that has upset me. It was such a relatively small area ... our smoking there couldn't have possibly bothered that many people since there were plenty of other tables on both sides of that smoking section they could have moved to. We only had a lousy six or so tables at the most ... out of what? Dozens?

The other changes HAL has made regarding their onboard smoking policy I can live with. But I feel HAL has greatly diminished the cruise experience for us smokers when they took that small area under the magranome away from us.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[kryos]

[quote name='sail7seas'][B]Are we sure they are not permitting people who are very seriously aggrieved to cancel? I don't know....I'm asking. It might be possible that some people called when they learned about the new policy, stated their firm objection and asked for refund. Maybe HAL agreed to refund their money??
[/B][/QUOTE]
That's the problem. I don't think HAL announced the policy change in advance. Apparently, the policy went into effect on April 1 with no real advance warning. Kakalina told me about it when she and her DH met me at the Tampa Airport on April 1. The policy had just gone in effect that morning, and HAL personnel were clearing all of the ashtrays off the tables in the smoking section under the magranome. On her cruise that ended on April 1, people were permitted to smoke there.

In this case, even if someone were aggrieved severely by the new policy, they would have had few options. What could they do? Cancel after arriving onboard to find the new policy in place? That could be quite an expensive proposition ... even if HAL allowed for a full refund. I doubt HAL would be willing to refund last minute booked air tickets if such were needed for those folks to get home.

Basically, folks who were not happy with the new policy would have had to live with it for the present cruise. They would have had little to no choice. And that's exactly what scares some of us about HAL in the future. What's gonna happen next? We get into our staterooms and find out that we can no longer smoke ANYWHERE onboard. That would make, at least for me, a lousy vacation ... since I would be "sneaking" cigarettes in the bathroom and hoping not to get caught. After all, the penalty for getting caught smoking on Carnival's non-smoking ship, Paradise, was getting kicked off the ship at the next port. Presumably, that would be the penalty on a non-smoking HAL ship as well.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[ookpik]

What has happened to"Cigars under the Stars"?
My DH,a pipe smoker,and I loved going to the Lido bar after dinner
for our cognac(Or two) He has very limited smoking priviledges,though
we could go back to our balcony,the ambience is not quite the same and
to be honest the only people seen there were smokers at that time of night.

[Jemima]

"Cigars Under the Stars" was listed on the Veendam daily programs and was on Navigation aft 9 pm to midnight. On Veendam that would be near or at the aft pool. As to cognac, it wasn't mention and I don't even know what it is.

[DrTee]

[quote name='ookpik']What has happened to"Cigars under the Stars"?
My DH,a pipe smoker,and I loved going to the Lido bar after dinner
for our cognac(Or two) He has very limited smoking priviledges,though
we could go back to our balcony,the ambience is not quite the same and
to be honest the only people seen there were smokers at that time of night.[/quote]

It seems to me that it would be logical that there would be only smokers there, as a non-smoker would hardly be drawn to a place that was designated for cigar-smoking.

[MrLee]

[quote name='kryos']It is also allowed in one section of the Ocean Bar. But that's about it.
--rita[/quote]

HAL's website says "designated smoking and nonsmoking areas are available in most lounges". So does the Crow's Nest and Ocean Bar constitute "most" lounges? :rolleyes:

[gooselace]

Another thread reports that on the Rotterdam's Med cruise, Parkwest has reserved the Crow's Nest for private use apparently for the entire cruise, making it off-limits to other passengers. There goes another smoking area.

OTOH, maybe smokers could make a deal with Phillip Morris or some other tobacco company that could pay HAL to "carve out" and reserve a small covered area on the Lido deck for us. Money talks.

[kryos]

[quote name='MrLee']HAL's website says "designated smoking and nonsmoking areas are available in most lounges". So does the Crow's Nest and Ocean Bar constitute "most" lounges? :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]
That and the SeaView Bar (rear aft deck bar on ships that have it). That's about it.

So, if one of these areas are closed for some reason, the other ones will become mobbed with smokers. So, for example, if the Crow's Nest was closed to the public for some private function, and thus unavailable to the general smoking population, the Ocean Bar would be jammed with smokers ... far too many to be accommodated in the small section allocated for them. I think that section only comprises two small tables and two booths, plus the bar itself.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[kryos]

[quote name='HeatherInFlorida']However, I would agree that HAL should have set a date beyond 90 days out. This way anyone who is about to make their final payment isn't forced to go on their cruise. So they should either make an exception and let smokers cancel or at least give everyone plenty of notice.[/QUOTE]
Exactly. And, HAL should publicize any change in smoking policies very widely ... i.e, on the front page of their website and with their travel agent community. Then the day the new policy goes in effect should be far enough into the future to allow anyone already booked to cancel without penalty if they so chose. New bookings would be informed of the smoking policies upfront, both by doing their own research via HAL's website, or through their TA's.

I know smoking is not a popular subject these days ... and smokers are even less popular ... but the point is that some of us enjoy our "habit," and look forward to indulging it while on a cruise. The changes HAL is making are taking away a great deal of the pleasure we get from cruising ... such as the ability to enjoy a smoke while socializing in that small area under the magronome. That area became a magnet for socializing for smokers, and now that we've lost that, it definitely impacts our cruise experience. The loss of some smoking freedoms on certain nights in the casino also affects the cruise experience of some people.

If HAL wants to make such drastic changes in their onboard smoking policies, then fairness dictates that they provide ample notice of these changes so that people with existing bookings can evaluate those changes and then make their own decisions as to whether or not to go through with their HAL cruise. After all, when they booked, those restrictions weren't in force. Now HAL is pulling a little "bait and switch" on them, don't you think?

Blue skies ...

--rita

[prescottbob]

Ahoy!

I couldn't agree with you more Rita. I emailed HAL yesterday with similar concerns. I believe it to be a rather poor business practice to do the 'bait and switch' shuffle at such a late date (at least for us). I also mentioned in my 'venting' that to date their new 'policy' is no where to be found on the HAL website (general policies and news releases). Further, we just rec'd our tickets just two weeks ago for a 5/7 sailing and there was not even a cheap flyer enclosed stating the new 'policy'. God knows we receive HAL's promotional mailings on a more than regular basis.

To be sure I'll be having a 'chat' with the captain at the first opportunity but ya know what? We're still gonna enjoy! We're gonna have some fun!And most importantly, we're gonna party!!!

Bon Voyage and Good Health to one & all!

The 'Bilge Rats' (Dolphin deck sailors),

Bob and Judy (35 years and counting)

[Martita B.]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][COLOR=blue]Ahoy Bob and Judy,[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][COLOR=#0000ff]I'll be aboard the Prinsendam from Ft. Laud to Lisbon, May 7th![/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][COLOR=#0000ff]Am looking forward to a smooth TA Crossing~~gentle seas and blue skies! Also, looking forward to a comfortable "spot" up in the Crow's Nest~~~[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][COLOR=#0000ff]See 'ya there![/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][COLOR=#0000ff]Safe flight~~~:p [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[prescottbob]

Ahoy Martita B !

We generally visit the Crow's Nest prior to diner for sunset drinks (late seating) and after the show for night caps and dancing. We'll be lurking in the 'lepers' area (smoking) if its still available. Depending on the quality of the piano player in the Piano Bar, we alternate our time in there also. During the day while not attending lectures, etc. I'm usally camped out by the Lido pool reading and people watching. Apparently with the new 'policy' this may not be an option on this cruise.

In any event, I'll be the tall 56ish bearded guy that usually appears 'lost'. The 'most blessed', Judy, usually has a big bag of knitting stuff. I think she plans on making a bunch of Xmas stockings while on the cruise. If ya know anone who needs baby booties/hats she generally whips them out pretty quick and has sold them on board during prior cruises at fairly reasonable prices. She's also been known to barter for a couple of drinks. God I love her.

See ya there!

Bon Voyage and May God Bless Us All!

The Bilge Rats, Bob & Judy (35 years and counting)

[Martita B.]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][COLOR=blue]Bob and Judy,[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][COLOR=#0000ff]I, too, plan on having a cocktail before the late dinner seating in the Crow's Nest~~and probably after dinner for a "Bailey's Irish Cream." As this is my 1st voyage on HAL (have been an 'ole Seabourn-ite for many years) I hope I don't need a 'lit basket of bread crumbs to find my way a'round the vessel akin to Gretel.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][COLOR=#0000ff]I am looking forward to watching Judy do her expert "handy work!"[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][COLOR=#0000ff][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][COLOR=#0000ff]I am small and look "Texas" (no boots, Stetson, spurs or chaps, however)~~upon saying a few words, you will definitely know I have that Southern West Texas drawl.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][COLOR=#0000ff][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][COLOR=#0000ff]See 'yall at the Crow's Nest! "Bon Voyage!"[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[sueclark]

Well, I've enjoyed reading this. We just canceled an entire group that was booked on Celebrity Journey - an 18 day Antarctica sailing. When they created Azamara cruises which now includes Journey, they put in an almost non-smoking policy (just like Oceania's).

Some of us (including me) have now booked Prinsendam for the 26 night Amazon in Nov. 08. Since most of us are smokers I was relieved to see that things are pretty much as they have always been on HAL.

I'll be on Zuiderdam next week, so I'll be able to talk to them more about their thoughts of future changes in the policy.

[Jemima]

Smokers seem to use this "we'll cancel" threat anytime smoking restrictions, laws, whatever occur. It doesn't work. There are far more non-smokers who are requesting no smoking or reduced smoking. On our recent cruise (4/1) I overheard a number of negative comments about smokers and smoking on the ship. I just listened except for pointing out that the Veendam did allow smoking in fewer places than in the past. The response was "Well they need to reduce it more."

[hammybee]

[quote name='sueclark']Well, I've enjoyed reading this. We just canceled an entire group that was booked on Celebrity Journey - an 18 day Antarctica sailing. When they created Azamara cruises which now includes Journey, they put in an almost non-smoking policy (just like Oceania's).

Some of us (including me) have now booked Prinsendam for the 26 night Amazon in Nov. 08. Since most of us are smokers I was relieved to see that things are pretty much as they have always been on HAL.

I'll be on Zuiderdam next week, so I'll be able to talk to them more about their thoughts of future changes in the policy.[/QUOTE]

Hello Sue, A little off topic here....I am just curious about the size of your group. Care to share and I promise I am not a group cruise basher. Thanks.

[sueclark]

Small group - less than 10 cabins.

[MrLee]

[quote name='Jemima']Smokers seem to use this "we'll cancel" threat anytime smoking restrictions, laws, whatever occur. [/quote]

Not me. I check things out ahead of time and book somewhere else in the first place. I only go to restaurants on the Indian reservation also since they're the only ones around here that allow smoking. I have no problem staying home either. My wife's a great cook! :D

[hammybee]

[quote name='sueclark']Small group - less than 10 cabins.[/QUOTE]

Thanks Sue. I am sure you are going to have a fabulous time on the Prinsendam.

[venicecruiser]

Jemima - Trust me when I tell you that should HAL further restrict smoking onboard, I WILL cancel all three of the cruises I currently have booked-including one that is 24 days.....

I can live with the casino being non-smoking every other day, it saves me money (lol). I have adjusted to the no-smoking anymore in that very small area under the dome on Lido deck. Makes no difference to me that the Casino Bar is now non-smoking. I now skip the Explorers Lounge-and don't order the somewhat pricey coffee drinks available there-since there is no smoking area. BUT, if the day comes that HAL tells me I cannot smoke in MY cabin or on MY balcony, then my days of sailing on HAL ships will be over. And lets be honest, I don't know how they do it but I have NEVER walked into a cabin on embarkation day on a HAL ship and been able to tell whether or not the previous occupant smoked and I am pretty sure that even a non-smoker couldn't tell either.

Claudia