Smoking on the Prinsendam

[Randyk47]

We just canceled our Azamara Quest cruise for March 2008 because of the smoking restrictions. Their new policy, announced after we booked, is very much like, if not identical to, Oceania's. OK. We're disappointed but not angry about it. It was a great itinerary to the smaller, less visited Caribbean islands but we're not going on a 14-day cruise where we can't even smoke in our cabin. Luckily we're far enough out that there's not a cancellation fee from the cruise line or our TA so other than having wasted some time on research no harm, no foul. No other cruise really catches our attention right now so it looks like 2008 will be a resort....first land based vacation in 5 years.

As to HAL. We were on the Veendam with Kakalina and her husband (Hi there!) and had a great time chatting with them in the Crow's Nest and in "our" little smoking corner of the Lido pool area. So HAL announced, just as we were getting off the ship, that the Lido pool area was going to be non-smoking. Not great but not totally a show stopper like the Azamara policy. Yes, as far as I know, you can still smoke in the aft starboard side of the Crow's Nest, forward starboard side of the Ocean Bar, in your cabin, on your verandah, in the casino (though there were non-smoking days/nights/afternoons during our cruise), and some designated deck areas. That's probably good enough but I think it's just a matter of time until those get slowly but surely reduced. What does that mean to us? Well, we either quit smoking or we find another vacation mode. Guess it's our choice. :)

[hammybee]

I have no position on smoking.

The hospitality industry is going to do what the majority of their guests/pax want them to do. When the majority favors us as individuals, we seem to love it. And when it does not, we move on.

Given the momentum of charter cruises, it will not surprise me to see some smoking charters ( the common interest) in the future. There are certainly enough smokers out there to easily fill the Prinsendam or any Azamara ship, given appropriate lead time and promotion. And this is when corporate policies go up in smoke :) It's just another business opportunity.

There is adequate technology to remove the odors so that the next guests will not be aware of what the previous guests/ pax enjoyed. And there are so many opportunities for everyone to get what they want out of their vacation.

[MrLee]

The way I look at it, I can just as easily fly to Aruba or St. Thomas or whatever and enjoy my time there. I don't get to see that many different places but, then again, most of these islands are starting to look a lot alike. :rolleyes: There really isn't THAT big of a difference in price.

[NoNoNanette]

[quote name='MrLee']The way I look at it, I can just as easily fly to Aruba or St. Thomas or whatever and enjoy my time there. I don't get to see that many different places but, then again, most of these islands are starting to look a lot alike. :rolleyes: There really isn't THAT big of a difference in price.[/quote]

You'd spend much less than a balcony room on a ship if you were to get an all-inclusive/airfare included room on the beach!

Flew to Cancun with a Cajun girlfriend in October. RT Air, transfers, nice resort with balcony overlooking beach, all food and booze.... $1000 per person.

[Randyk47]

No doubt about it, cruising is still one of the best bargains. We've booked a resort in the Caribbean for next year, in place of our now canceled cruise, and it came out about the same as a cruise when reduced to a cost per day comparison. A lot of the comparison has to do with what category cabin versus what level of resort room. In our decision making process we tried to keep them about as close as we could. The real difference really shows up when comparing lower cabin categories against a resort. Resorts typically don't have more than a hand full of room categories unlike a cruise ship. The cruise option beats the resort to pieces at that level. Since we typically book mini-suites or above on our cruises it's a bit better and our choice brought us in at almost right on the same rate. We found a few resorts that were below and a few above. All in all I think we finished up with a place that'll cost us about $20 a day less....not a big difference. It's a change and we're looking forward to it. We'll probably miss not waking up to a new and exciting port each morning but it will also give us the chance to visit an area in depth. We're going to give it a try, maybe we'll like it, maybe we won't.

[kryos]

Smokers seem to use this "we'll cancel" threat anytime smoking restrictions, laws, whatever occur. It doesn't work. There are far more non-smokers who are requesting no smoking or reduced smoking. On our recent cruise (4/1) I overheard a number of negative comments about smokers and smoking on the ship. I just listened except for pointing out that the Veendam did allow smoking in fewer places than in the past. The response was "Well they need to reduce it more."

But those non-smokers generally don't spend the kind of money in the lounges and casino that the smokers do. That gives smokers some power.

 

Also, HAL is unique in that many of their loyal following are older cruisers. Older people are the ones who tend to smoke ... the young folks had more sense and never picked up the habit. So, by instituting this restrictive smoking policy, HAL runs the risk of antaganizing a pretty substantial percentage of their long-time cruisers ... cruisers who spend a bundle sailing HAL's more varied and exotic itineraries.

 

Now, if you were talking perhaps RCI or Carnival ... with their younger sailing population, yes ... I would agree with you. Far more of their customers would be likely to demand more smoke-free areas, and perhaps an entirely smoke-free ship. Those passengers would represent far more than the number of smokers put out by the policy ... and thus the cruise line would concentrate on pleasing that majority and let the smokers go elsewhere if they don't like it.

 

But not HAL. They can't afford to take that attitude.

 

I heard an interesting story on the QE2, by the way. I found very liberal smoking policies in force there. We could even smoke at our table in the Caronia Restaurant. I happened to mention one night how pleased I was with how the QE2 treated its smoking passengers. Our waiter told me that the QE2 would never go no smoking ... nor would the ship's management ever likely tighten smoking policies onboard that one ship. The reason? There is a passenger who apparently has been sailing the QE2 for years. He books several grill class cabins for the World Cruise each and every year. He spends something like $5 million a year on the ship. He's a smoker and he's told Cunard that the day the QE2 restricts his smoking is the day he will find another ship to sail. Needless to say, smokers are very welcomed on the QE2 even though those same liberal policies do not extend quite so extensively aboard the QM2, nor will they on the new Queen Victoria.

 

So, bottom line of this story is that money talks, all else walks. When HAL finds that casino revenues and lounge and bar receipts are down since this tighter smoking policy was instituted, they will probably reverse it. It's a proven fact that especially with an older population, more of whom are likely to smoke, a lot more is spent in these venues when the passenger can enjoy a smoke with their other vices. My guess is that many of them are spending less in the casino now on non-smoking days, and less in those bars and lounges where smoking is prohibited. HAL won't like losing that tidy source of onboard revenue. Believe me, they'll come around ...

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[sail7seas]

I don't agree with all of that Kryos. I see young people smoking..... I want to read them the riot act but, of course, I don't. There are seniors who smoke and there are 25 year olds who smoke. NOT all smokers are seniors. There are fewer and fewer smokers in our society but they are divided among ages.

 

The old business about the smokers spending more on drinks/gambling etc is not as true as it once might have been. Because such a large percentage of the population is now non-smokers, commensurately far more spend more on drinks/gambling etc than might not have been the case in many years past when there were so very many more smokers. If HAL thought limiting smoking was decreasing revenue, they would not be 'going there'. They have enough numbers by now from the experiments they have done with no smoking in the casino to know if they are ahead or not. If the casinos continue to limit/ban smoking, that will clearly be the answer.

 

I don't have statistics....if you do, they'd be fascinating to read. I only comment by my own observations and conversations aboard the ships......a number of times a year.

 

[Sea King]

 

Older people are the ones who tend to smoke ... the young folks had more sense and never picked up the habit.

 

So, bottom line of this story is that money talks, all else walks.

 

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

 

with due respect: how can you possibly encourage smoking when you yourself admit the "younger set" had more sense and never picked up the bad habit:confused:

 

money talks and all else walks:rolleyes:

 

sorry: 75-80% (the non-smokers) will spend as much if not more money than 20-25% (smokers) ..

 

I don't certainly don't agree with a number of HAL policies:

 

cutting back on the smoking areas, however, is one I not only applaud but hope will be adopted fleet wide sooner rather than later

[trubey]

Does anyone know whether the three or four tables on the stern port side of the Lido deck of the P'dam are still reserved for smokers? Is the Oak Room still cigars-and-cognac?

 

LKT

 

Heh, guys. The OP for this thread is my dh. But I never really found an answer to his question. Anybody know?

 

The Prinsendam is quite a different (smaller) ship from the others and offers slightly different venues. Because of this, we were wondering if anyone knows what changes have been made on her.

 

susana.

[Jemima]

Heh, guys. The OP for this thread is my dh. But I never really found an answer to his question. Anybody know?

 

The Prinsendam is quite a different (smaller) ship from the others and offers slightly different venues. Because of this, we were wondering if anyone knows what changes have been made on her.

 

susana.

 

No, only the policy on the Veendam has been reported. Someone (S7S?)indicated this is part of a fleet wide policy. Unfortunately no one has reported on smoking on other HAL ships on cruises embarking 4/1 or after. I went through all the April reviews on the CC review section and found nothing on smoking regulations.

If anyone has been on HAL ship other than Veedam April 1, 2007 or later it would be helpful to hear about smoking on those ships.

[sail7seas]

Policy also applies on Noordam. Casino was non-smoking our entire cruise. They permitted smoking at about 3 or 4 Lido Pool tables but made it Very clear that would not be the case on the next cruise or any thereafter. No smoking permitted now anywhere in the Lido Pool area.

I think it is fleetwide about Lido Pool for "S" , "R" and Vista. Sorry Trubey, I have no information re: Prinsendam but don't would wonder why it would be different on her than on all the other ships.

 

 

 

[Opinions]

Also, HAL is unique in that many of their loyal following are older cruisers. Older people are the ones who tend to smoke ... the young folks had more sense and never picked up the habit.

 

Every article I have ever read claims that younger people are more likely to smoke than the elderly...The fewest smokers are in the over 60 group...They may have smoked at one time but most have given it up...As one in that group I know of few who smoke.

[DrTee]

Every article I have ever read claims that younger people are more likely to smoke than the elderly...The fewest smokers are in the over 60 group...They may have smoked at one time but most have given it up...As one in that group I know of few who smoke.

 

Given it up or died of it.

[kryos]

If HAL thought limiting smoking was decreasing revenue, they would not be 'going there'. They have enough numbers by now from the experiments they have done with no smoking in the casino to know if they are ahead or not. If the casinos continue to limit/ban smoking, that will clearly be the answer.

 

I don't have statistics....if you do, they'd be fascinating to read. I only comment by my own observations and conversations aboard the ships......a number of times a year.

 

No, I don't have statistics either ... probably only HAL's marketing department has them ... and they're not sharing. :)

 

I can only go by what I observed personally during my cruise ... and that was the casino seemed much busier on smoking nights than non-smoking ones. Of course, since I don't gamble, I certainly didn't spend a lot of time in there and it could be that the times when I made my somewhat "casual" observations were not representative.

 

It will be very interesting to see what HAL does in relation to their casinos. My guess is that if the smoking ban proves costly for them, they will cease it. But, on the other hand, if revenues are up on non-smoking days, my guess is they will eventually ban smoking in the casinos of their smaller ships altogether ... just as they do now on the Vistas.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[kryos]

Every article I have ever read claims that younger people are more likely to smoke than the elderly...The fewest smokers are in the over 60 group...They may have smoked at one time but most have given it up...As one in that group I know of few who smoke.

Funny you should say that ... because most of the young people I know through my family, friends, etc. ... hate smoking and smokers. It's almost a reverse cultural thing ... "you smoke? Yuk! Get outta my face!"

 

Perhaps it's as a result of all the advertising that's being done to promote a "healthy" lifestyle to young people ... anti-smoking campaigns, healthy eating, etc. But, yes, I could see where the anti-smoking campaigns can have the opposite effect too ... making the kids think that if so many people want them to stay away from smoking, then there must be something good about it that they are missing ... and hence they would want to do it even more. Of course, I wouldn't want to be a teenager trying to get my hands on a pack of cigarettes. It's darned hard. Guess they have to get adults to go into the stores and buy them.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[kryos]

Heh, guys. The OP for this thread is my dh. But I never really found an answer to his question. Anybody know?

 

The Prinsendam is quite a different (smaller) ship from the others and offers slightly different venues. Because of this, we were wondering if anyone knows what changes have been made on her.

I think the rules are the same there, Trubey ... Ocean Bar small section ... Crow's Nest one side ... and aft pool area allows smoking. That's it. The paperwork I saw on the changes didn't indicate any exceptions for the Prisendam ... just separate rules for Vistas versus non-Vistas.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[kryos]

with due respect: how can you possibly encourage smoking when you yourself admit the "younger set" had more sense and never picked up the bad habit:confused:

 

money talks and all else walks:rolleyes:

Yes, it's a bad habit. I certainly don't deny that. But it's a habit I have, and one I enjoy, and I'd like to think I can enjoy it without necessarily bothering anybody else.

 

We all have bad habits. There are no exceptions to that rule. For some, it's excessive drinking. For others it's gambling. For others, it's something else. For me, it's smoking. I don't deny it's a bad habit. It's just one I don't wish to give up right now. I enjoy it too much.

 

You're right, though. Money talks and all else walks. For that reason, I don't doubt that HAL's future smoking policies will be predicated on how these current restrictions go over. If they lose money as a result of limiting smoking in certain areas, they will lift the ban. However, if they see revenues going up, then obviously those restrictions will get even tougher ... perhaps to the extent that HAL ships may be entirely smoke free, save perhaps for one small area on the aft deck.

 

I'm just gonna wait and see how the wind blows.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[gooselace]

I think the rules are the same there, Trubey ... Ocean Bar small section ... Crow's Nest one side ... and aft pool area allows smoking. That's it. The paperwork I saw on the changes didn't indicate any exceptions for the Prisendam ... just separate rules for Vistas versus non-Vistas. Blue skies ... --rita

 

And when the Crow's Nest is off-limits because of private use, and rain is making the aft pool area impossible for smokers, then what? Do we all pile into that small section of the Ocean Bar? :(

 

My cruise buddy and I are starting to regret our decision to book a December cruise on HAL when we could have opted for an island resort where smoking is less limited.

[IheartHAL]

Heh, guys. The OP for this thread is my dh. But I never really found an answer to his question. Anybody know?

 

The Prinsendam is quite a different (smaller) ship from the others and offers slightly different venues. Because of this, we were wondering if anyone knows what changes have been made on her.

 

susana.

 

Post #4 answers your question about the Oak Room...:)

[trubey]

The Oak Room may be gone, but still I wonder about the few tables in the Lido. And what about the entire Lower Promenade Deck?

 

I've only taken two cruises, but both were 2-weekers, and both were on the Prinsendam. And I would most likely chose her again. Watching the HAL board tells me that there can be all sorts of surprises.

 

susana.

[cle1]

<<<<TRUBEY>> I believe we had coffee with you and your husband last month on our Veendam Transatlantic cruise. We enjoyed meeting you so much and being able to bring you your magazines, but completely forgot to get your Email address. Please Email me, as we would like to stay in touch..

erricksons@netzero.com.......Carol&Buzz

[sail7seas]

Smoking is still permitted on Promenade Deck where folks enjoy sitting on the lovely teak chairs.

 

 

When we are out doing our laps, I often see someone standing at the rail smoking a cigar and certainly people smoking cigarettes. I'm not sure the cigars are specifically permitted but I've never seen anyone spoken to about it and it is not unusual to see folks with them out there.

 

[HeatherInFlorida]

Susana, I would be amazed if people aren't smoking on the aft deck below the pool (the number escapes me). They certainly were in December. We were in 197 on that deck and out there all the time. I don't smoke, but DH smoked his pipe there, several smoked cigarettes and a friend smoked his cigar.

 

I know the rules have changed since that time, but hardly anyone goes there anyway and I'd be shocked if anyone said anything. That's a very open deck.

 

Have fun!

[Guienevere_Arianette]

with due respect: how can you possibly encourage smoking when you yourself admit the "younger set" had more sense and never picked up the bad habit:confused:

 

money talks and all else walks:rolleyes:

 

sorry: 75-80% (the non-smokers) will spend as much if not more money than 20-25% (smokers) ..

 

I don't certainly don't agree with a number of HAL policies:

 

cutting back on the smoking areas, however, is one I not only applaud but hope will be adopted fleet wide sooner rather than later

 

I don't think she was encouraging smoking...she stated a fact. Sometimes facts are not fair or ethical; they are what they are: facts.

[zaandam_2]

Exactly. And, HAL should publicize any change in smoking policies very widely ... i.e, on the front page of their website and with their travel agent community. Then the day the new policy goes in effect should be far enough into the future to allow anyone already booked to cancel without penalty if they so chose. New bookings would be informed of the smoking policies upfront, both by doing their own research via HAL's website, or through their TA's.

 

I know smoking is not a popular subject these days ... and smokers are even less popular ... but the point is that some of us enjoy our "habit," and look forward to indulging it while on a cruise. The changes HAL is making are taking away a great deal of the pleasure we get from cruising ... such as the ability to enjoy a smoke while socializing in that small area under the magronome. That area became a magnet for socializing for smokers, and now that we've lost that, it definitely impacts our cruise experience. The loss of some smoking freedoms on certain nights in the casino also affects the cruise experience of some people.

 

If HAL wants to make such drastic changes in their onboard smoking policies, then fairness dictates that they provide ample notice of these changes so that people with existing bookings can evaluate those changes and then make their own decisions as to whether or not to go through with their HAL cruise. After all, when they booked, those restrictions weren't in force. Now HAL is pulling a little "bait and switch" on them, don't you think?

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

 

very well said. i ran into a similar situation on my carnival cruise. it dampened my enjoyment and i was stuck with it for 28 days.