Mis-representation AGAIN!!!

[newmexicoNita]

How many posts does one have to make before they are above suspicion?...The OP has been a member since 2000...More than enough time to be aware of past problems...I don't believe the number of posts one has automatically makes them more credible.

In this case more than he has posted. The past problem he was referring to was a totally different situation and yes, it was bad. What his gripe is today, happens all the time with cruises, hotels, resorts etc. His motive, I don't know, but whatever, it is suspicious. NMnita

[SanDiego Single]

In this case more than he has posted. The past problem he was referring to was a totally different situation and yes, it was bad. What his gripe is today, happens all the time with cruises, hotels, resorts etc. His motive, I don't know, but whatever, it is suspicious. NMnita

 

I disagree with treating new members any different than you treat old members. This is supposed to be an open community of people asking questions and making comments. It should stop now.

[Copper10-8]

Here we go again with the number of posts! :rolleyes: Doesn't make a darn bit of difference in this context! I don't think any less of someone with 2, 600 or 6,000 posts. What if I've just come across this site and want to throw in my two cents, or what if I've been lurking here for a while just reading up. The number of posts someone has on this site has nothing to do with that person posting his/her opinion and/or how serious we should be taking that post! This is a cruise chat site, folks! Not some fraternity where someone has to "earn" the right to be taken serious and/or is on double secret probation until a "magic" number of posts is attained!

If the OP is of the opinion that HAL is in the business of false advertising, apparently a crime in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, he has that right. Now, do I agree with that opinion? No, I don't! However, that doesn't make the OP "suspicious" because he only has four posts! Think about it!

[Tocruise2]

Ok all you doubting Thomas' an apology is in order....here is the e-mail I recieved from Holland America today..... I hope it comes out.... and as far as using your clubby acronyms "OP" etc..remember this is a public board, and it is only fair to have problems brought to the surface here.... I am glad that so many of you "loyal mariners" have never had a problem, between the way HAL operates and from what I see on this board, I really don't know if a cruise with HAL would be to my liking.... I think I will stick with my 6 star cruise lines...it is obvious that one star makes a great deal of difference!!!!

For security reasons.....and believe me some, of you scare me with your vicious writings... I have removed my name and Mariner # from the e-mail

 

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lease read the Mariner below....

[sail7seas]

Just to be helpful as you seem to imply 'OP' refers to something horrible.

 

It is my understanding (and usage) that OP is short for Original Poster. In this case, you are the Original Poster. There is nothing more than that to be understood from the use of "OP". You started the thread.

 

[InTheWASide]

OP,

 

What you've posted doesn't really prove very much.

 

You proved you got an email from HAL and that it gave you offers.

 

Somehow you apparently managed to ignore a dozen or so emails stating that if the CAPACITY of what was offered has been maxed, there are none left and unfortunately you are too late.

 

Ever seen a special that's a "blowout deal" and they don't allow rainchecks, and you're too late. People lined up at the store at midnight the day before and unfortunately you missed out?

 

It's like that.

 

But I do agree with others... if you feel that HAL is "out to get you" then just move on. It's unrealistic, it's unnecessary and it's untruthful

[SDHALFAN]

As the old addage says...I think there is something rotten in Denmark!!!!!!!!!! Consumer beware!!!!!!

 

To go off topic here (gee, that's the first time I've ever done that;) ) your "old addage" is actually a (mis) quote from William Shakespeare - as in "there is something rotten here in the State of Denmark" (Hamlet.) As Copper John said, please don't blame the Danes for this - Holland America Line is very proud of their Dutch (as in The Netherlands, not Denmark) and American heritage.

 

As so many others have pointed out these "special offers" are a limited capacity and I, for one don't see them as a bait and switch scam. If you can't get the cabin you want at the price you want (as in dirt-cheap) then keep trying to find the cruise that you want to take at a price you think is reasonable, although I sincerely doubt that you are going to find a bargain basement priced cruise on your admittedly preferred 6-star cruiseline.

 

As to the "OP" reference: I think that you will find this on all the cruiseline boards and it is simply, as others have pointed out, shorthand for "original poster" - no big deal and certainly no "clubby acronyms" intended as disrespect. I think that you will find the acronym "OP" on almost all of the boards - it simply means that we are too lazy, (and in desperate need of a cruise) to actually spell out "Original Poster".

 

Have a ton of fun on your next cruise, no matter which cruiseline you opt for.

 

Valerie:)

[the2ofus]

We need to keep in mind that lots of folks "lurk" and read posts for a long time, sometimes for years without posting even one comment. They might have only a few posts which simply means that something finally tripped their trigger so that they felt impelled to post. That may be the case with the Original Poster on this thread.

 

That having been said, I don't see any real evidence of bait and switch here. The special was widely advertised. The cabin the OP wanted at the price the OP wanted was sold out. The OP has shown no pattern that he/she or any other person or group consistently found what they wanted to be unavailable. There was no requirement to reserve another cabin at a higher price. So what basis is there for complaint? Chalk it up to bad timing, bad luck or bad karma and move on!

[Tricia724]

In this day and age where people line up and sleep outside stores on Thanksgiving night to be the first to purchase some hot toy or electronic device for Christmas, it doesn't surprise me when someone beats me to a hot sale item. It's the same thing with those cheap airline ticket deals.....I'm online all the time and looking but rarely get the lowest fare out there.

 

Last July a friend and I were talking about going to Las Vegas in November or December. She received a brochure from the ever-popular auto club advertising what seemed to be a good package deal with several trips per month through the end of the year. I called right away with four different dates we could go and guess what.....they were all sold out! The only date open was in August, and August in Vegas is not my cup of tea.

 

I told the woman that my friend had just received the mailing that day, and we didn't understand why there was no availability. She said they had flyers out in their office for a couple of months and had been notifying people they knew were interested, etc. So, by the time the brochure hit the mail, the offer was practically non-existent.

 

We were disappointed, but......I spent some time online and made our own arrangements. I not only saved us more than $100/pp over their price, I got the exact dates we preferred, plus one extra night's stay, and a mid-strip location more to our liking. So, in retrospect, I think we were lucky they were sold out. I believe that things work out for a reason....even if we don't know what it is at the time.

 

Maybe down the road you'll find something you like better, too.....keep looking.

[dakrewser]

We need to keep in mind that lots of folks "lurk" and read posts for a long time, sometimes for years without posting even one comment. They might have only a few posts which simply means that something finally tripped their trigger so that they felt impelled to post. That may be the case with the Original Poster on this thread.

 

But the only way we, as readers, can judge someone's sincerity, honesty, probity, accuracy, etc. is by familiarizing ourselves with the full body of their postings. That's very, very difficult if someone only has a tiny handful of postings. Hundreds or thousands aren't needed, but a couple of dozen might go a long way towards supporting the bona fides of a particularly outrageous complaint. And, let's face it, even if the circumstances are exactly as the OP states, there's nothing wrong here, nothing illegal, unethical or underhanded. That didn't stop the hyperbole from flowing, though. So - based upon the entire collected postings of this particular poster I can only conclude that it's a tempest in a teapot at best, and an attempt to create flamebait at worst.

[SakeDad]

By itself, no. But when a person that has only two other posts since 2000 suddenly starts shouting about misrepresentation, again! and purports to know all about how the other lines conduct their sales, and only HAL does mean and rotten things like this, etc... it certainly raises the suspicions for me.

I must say I thought the same thing. While I ABSOLUTELY agree that people lurk for years and may only post once a year or so there was an IMMEDIATE problem I had with the title of the post vs the number of posts from the OP.

Had the OP simply titled it "Mis-representation by HAL" or "False Advertising" or "Bait & Switch" it wouldn't have raised any red flags for me even if it was the OP's 1st post. But when they chose to add "AGAIN" (their capitalization, not mine!) it opened them up to questions about any past motives, posts, opinions, issues etc...

And to the OP...OP is not restricted to this board, it is used across the ENTIRE internet world!

Having said all that (whew!) I agree that when a special is advertised it is so the seller can sell it. They mass market hoping that if a million people see the deal and they have 100 at that price than maybe 200 will want to buy it, which makes it a "hot deal". That also means 100 folks don't get it and feel bad. But they also know those that did get it got a great deal, they don't say the company was at fault.

You posted the email you got, but you failed to post the "small print". Meaning, if you click on ANY of those deals someewhere in there you will find the "small print" which puts limits on them....you failed to read these, and in legal terms, failed your end of the contract.

I hope you find a great deal on a wonderful trip soon.

[Tocruise2]

A Few last comments.....

1st...I have found out the entire ship was "chartered" for all sailings with the special offers however, no one can tell me who chartered it...but this certainly will be interesting to watch..if all of a sudden these voyages suddenly appear with increased prices

2nd You are all right...if you miss a special offer, don't cry over spilt milk. but I think when a corportion continually has this problem it can only make you wonder about their morals.

3rd. As far as posting to a board for the 1st, 2nd or 1 millioned time I really don't feel it makes much difference, it would be like me accusing those who defend HAL to the 9th degreeto be either employees of HAL or recieving special compensation or incentives to monitor and reply to negative posts on the boards! (After all HAL does know and acknowledges the cruise critic clubs with special parties and incentives)It is sort strange that response come within seconds of a negative post...either some people don't have much of a life or they are part of HAL's network! Just a thought, like the one that implies the new posters are bad people if they don't agree with the inner HAL circle!

4th Life is full of disappointments and not only am I disappointed with HAL but also with the people monitoring the board. Looks like it will be a while before I do another post....and O my Gosh the next one better be a good one or else I will get bashed again and accused of all types of nasty things because I have a lot more things in my life to do than post to boards!!!!

Just a few thoughts....I will close like a gentleman and say enjoy your cruises to all. Peace!

[SWeaster]

We have only sailed on HAL three times but we have always somehow managed to get more than we paid for. Our "VC" guarantees on the Zuiderdam and Westerdam in the Caribbean both became "VA" cabins. Although both of these upgrades provided more than we expected, neither holds a candle to our most recent cruise.

 

In November 2007 we booked a "SY" guarantee for the March 3, 2007 sailing of the Oosterdam to the Mexican Riviera. Our choice of this cruise was entirely because of a sale brochure we received in the mail last October. It showed these mini-suites for the price of a VC veranda with a $50 per cabin on-board credit if booked before the end of November. Our travel agent had no problem booking this for us roughly a month after we received that brochure from HAL in the mail.

 

The Wednesday before we sailed, our SY guarantee was bumped up to an SB at no extra cost. Having wound up in a "real" suite with full suite privileges for the price of a mid-range veranda cabin, we have nothing to complain about. Several others on our sailing, including some fellow CruiseCritic members, received similar upgrades. To further sweeten the deal, everyone on the ship received an additional $25 credit because of the ship's azipod problem which only marginally impacted out port times.

 

Getting a suite with all of the amenities for the price of a mid-range veranda with a $100 total OBC, we have nothing to complain about. We are preparing to book a 10 day outside guarantee on either the Maasdam or Volendam for early 2008. I doubt that we will ever again make out as well as we did on the Oosterdam. If someday we do, fine. If not, that's fine too.

 

Bill

[Krazy Kruizers]

dakrewser

 

Love your off-beat Troll!!!!

[bookworm0911]

:cool:

We have only sailed on HAL three times but we have always somehow managed to get more than we paid for. Our "VC" guarantees on the Zuiderdam and Westerdam in the Caribbean both became "VA" cabins. Although both of these upgrades provided more than we expected, neither holds a candle to our most recent cruise.

 

In November 2007 we booked a "SY" guarantee for the March 3, 2007 sailing of the Oosterdam to the Mexican Riviera. Our choice of this cruise was entirely because of a sale brochure we received in the mail last October. It showed these mini-suites for the price of a VC veranda with a $50 per cabin on-board credit if booked before the end of November. Our travel agent had no problem booking this for us roughly a month after we received that brochure from HAL in the mail.

 

The Wednesday before we sailed, our SY guarantee was bumped up to an SB at no extra cost. Having wound up in a "real" suite with full suite privileges for the price of a mid-range veranda cabin, we have nothing to complain about. Several others on our sailing, including some fellow CruiseCritic members, received similar upgrades. To further sweeten the deal, everyone on the ship received an additional $25 credit because of the ship's azipod problem which only marginally impacted out port times.

 

Getting a suite with all of the amenities for the price of a mid-range veranda with a $100 total OBC, we have nothing to complain about. We are preparing to book a 10 day outside guarantee on either the Maasdam or Volendam for early 2008. I doubt that we will ever again make out as well as we did on the Oosterdam. If someday we do, fine. If not, that's fine too.

 

Bill

You don't have anything to complain about, that's for sure. ;) I wouldn't go about bragging about it while on the ship though. I know it has been mentioned here on many threads that some of the S pax who paid full price for their suites do feel this kind of upgrade is not exactly fair to them. They have paid a lot for the additional perks and amenities than just for a larger cabin like a regular upgrade in other categories.

[dolls4sell]

I like the SHIP HAPPENS! Point well made.

[jhannah]

... some of the S pax who paid full price for their suites do feel this kind of upgrade is not exactly fair to them. They have paid a lot for the additional perks and amenities than just for a larger cabin like a regular upgrade in other categories.

While I can certainly understand this, it's no different "shopping" for a cruise than it is shopping for a suit. You may shop and Lord & Taylor and pay $595 for your suit. I may happen to walk in and hit on a special sale where I get that suit for $200 plus I'm "upgraded" to an extra pair of trousers free.

[sail7seas]

Tocruise2:

(After all HAL does know and acknowledges the cruise critic clubs with special parties and incentives)It is sort strange that response come within seconds of a negative post...either some people don't have much of a life or they are part of HAL's network! Just a thought, like the one that implies the new posters are bad people if they don't agree with the inner HAL circle!

 

You forgot to add one additional choice to your list of why some of us rave about HAL and how wonderful we think the ships and crews are. That choice is because that is genuinely how we feel. We are not employees of HAL, HAL plans no special parties for us......we put the groups together here on this Board through the Roll Calls and HAL generously and graciously provides us with coffee/tea and cookies.

 

On the other hand, some of the other cruise lines do plan parties and sponsor CC'ers when on their ships. That is not the case with HAL.

 

Incentives? What incentives? Please tell us more as I am in the dark about this.

 

Some things are just as simple as the lowest explanation. We support HAL and speak good things about the ships and crews just because we think them that wonderful. No other reason. Please do not imply otherwise.

 

Thank you.

 

[mountainmare]

I just wanted to say that we also sometimes (usually) are disappointed that the super deal cabins are gone before we can book them. Actually the only time we were successful was with a Princess e-mail and our upcoming Costa cruise (both were for strange dates),

So we got the HAL brocure in the mail--called the TA and the price was not available, after that we got the e-mail for the same deal, called the TA and none of the prices on any of the categories--veranda or suite--on any of the sail dates were available.

Are we disappointed--yeah--sort of, we wanted to sneak a HAL getaway in.

Will we stop cruising HAL? No.

Will we cruise another line if we get a super deal that has an itinerary we really like at a bargain price? Well--we're trying Costa to Greece Turkey and Egypt next winter. I know Costa is not HAL--but its EGYPT!!!

Its a free market place and please--just be thankful that we are among the very lucky few who have the money, time and health to be able to take these wonderful trips.

[SakeDad]

While I can certainly understand this, it's no different "shopping" for a cruise than it is shopping for a suit. You may shop and Lord & Taylor and pay $595 for your suit. I may happen to walk in and hit on a special sale where I get that suit for $200 plus I'm "upgraded" to an extra pair of trousers free.

Well said Jim....and how many of these full-fare suite pax would turn their nose up at an upgrade to the PH suite???:rolleyes: :p

It's lovely that some have the money to pay full-fare. For those on a budget we book what we can, then if the Upgrade Fairy visits us we are (or SHOULD be) very grateful and should never be made to feel ashamed that HAL was so gracious to us. I shop outlets all the time and get $400.00 shirts for $40.00...doesn't cheapen the shirt or me!

[CDRMark]

:cool:

You don't have anything to complain about, that's for sure. ;) I wouldn't go about bragging about it while on the ship though. I know it has been mentioned here on many threads that some of the S pax who paid full price for their suites do feel this kind of upgrade is not exactly fair to them. They have paid a lot for the additional perks and amenities than just for a larger cabin like a regular upgrade in other categories.

I have only seen this attitude posted once; most here are gracious enough to congratulate other cruisers on their brush with the upgrade fairy.

Again, as Dave synopsized, its quality of posts and content, not quantity; tho quantity has a quality all its own....

Cheers

Mark

[sail7seas]

I don't know anyone in 'my world' who isn't delighted to save money on any/everything they can. I seriously doubt there are many among us who have so much money they have no desire to save a bit here and there and wherever they can.

 

If not, I'd like to be on their Holiday Gift List. :D

 

 

 

 

 

[HamOp]

Well, I didn't read all of the replys to this, so if it has already been said forgive me.

 

How do you know it wasn't the T/A that was trying to upsell? More fare = more comission!

[Grumpy1]

Well, I didn't read all of the replys to this, so if it has already been said forgive me.

 

How do you know it wasn't the T/A that was trying to upsell? More fare = more comission!

there might have been a time when an unscrupulous TA could do that, but with the ease that availability can be checked on the internet these days, it's highly unlikely.

 

73

[dakrewser]

2nd You are all right...if you miss a special offer, don't cry over spilt milk. but I think when a corportion continually has this problem it can only make you wonder about their morals.

 

I guess I missed your post where you listed all the other "immoral" special offers....