Parkwest Takes Over Rotterdam's Crow's Nest - Denies Passengers Access

[eh2zed]

This thread still has had the most posts of any thread; at least of the first 10 pages of Forum Threads that I checked. We were on this Rotterdam cruise and I have sent HAL Mariner Society an email at the beginning of the week expressing our concern. Got the automated response but no real response yet. How long does it usually take? Has anyone gotten a response on this concern yet?

[Nancyquilts]

You might want to check the Crystal board - they had a problem with a large group, and at least got a response from Crystal to their concerns. Where's HAL's response? Nancy

[twinkletoes4445]

This thread still has had the most posts of any thread; at least of the first 10 pages of Forum Threads that I checked. We were on this Rotterdam cruise and I have sent HAL Mariner Society an email at the beginning of the week expressing our concern. Got the automated response but no real response yet. How long does it usually take? Has anyone gotten a response on this concern yet?

 

I called HAL and let them know how unhappy I was when I heard about this. They took my phone number and said they'd pass it along...but so far, I haven't heard a word.

 

And in case anyone thinks you have to notify them by mail if you expect a response...that isn't the case. We had something happen on our cruise and I contacted HAL about this. We received a letter within a week or so addressing our concerns.

 

My guess is they really don't want to deal with this. What are they going to say? That they do indeed rent out public spaces for the entire cruise...and we're just SOL if we get on a ship and find this out.

[photodoodle]

I think there are ways to get attention for this problem that haven't been tried yet. As long as the communication is just within this board and to/from (mostly too) HAL, it's still relatively 'in the family'. The issue needs to be taken outside in the sunlight.

 

Here are some general ideas. I have not researched the specifics. How about writing to travel agent associations? Travel magazines or posting on their boards? The AARP - do they have a travel and lesuire discussion area? Write to the competitors and copy HAL. Once people form the impression that Holland America is indifferent to ordinary paying customers, it will have a huge problem on their hands. I expect they don't want to risk that because it's hard, expensive and time consuming to reverse people's general impressions.

 

I just started reading this thread this morning and have only gotten a little over halfway through, so please forgive me if these type of things have already been suggested.

 

I took an interest in this thread because I'm looking for ideas about how to handle dissatifaction with Holland America. I am having a nightmare with the HAL cruise booking and air travel booking process -which I will write about soon. I find it odd that some people are uncomfortable with the critic part of the Cruise Critic boards. I came to this site because I'm looking to get information from passengers that let's me know the reality of a line or excursion so I can make informed decisions.

 

Sadly, I have a tight feeling in my stomach about my upcoming cruise. Everyone I've talked to at Holland America in trying to solve my problem (except one) has been uninformed, unhelpful or downright rude!

[O2B@C]

.... Once people form the impression that Holland America is indifferent to ordinary paying customers, it will have a huge problem on their hands. ...

 

I don't disagree, and your idea of taking the issue "public" within the travel media is a good one. My only comment is that the problem of renting out public spaces is NOT unique to HAL. So I don't think the public controversy should focus on HAL in particular. It's more a question of getting the cruise industry as a whole to achieve a better balance between the $ to be made from group bookings and the rights of pax who have paid on an individual basis based on advertising that tells them the entire ship will be available to them.

[photodoodle]

It's more a question of getting the cruise industry as a whole to achieve a better balance between the $ to be made from group bookings and the rights of pax who have paid on an individual basis based on advertising that tells them the entire ship will be available to them.

 

I suspect that you are right when you say it's an industry wide problem. I dont' know enough to say whether HAL is better or worse than average. But I was concerned by the unresponsiveness and indifference in the way Holland America treated this problem.

 

It may be an industry-wide problem, but the industry doesn't move in concert. Each cruise line acts individually based on the forces it experiences. In the case of the Holland America - Parkwest problem, the lure of a few extra bucks from a group outweighed the cost of some disgruntled customers. The problem will continue with each cruise line until they comprehend the cost. So far the issue of groups blocking out public spaces from passengers contiues because the cruise lines can do it with relatively no consequences. So what I'm saying is that although the problem may be industry-wide, pressure must be applied by concerned passengers to each line individually to have a better chance of action.

 

Eventually, smart cruise lines will come up with innovative ways to ensure passenger satisfaction and outshine the stubborn, slower to react competition, while still accomodating groups.

 

Some possibilities (I'm just brainstorming here):

 

1. Guarrantee that no facility will be blocked for more than x hours per day, or y days per cruise.

 

2. Offer some compensation to passengers who are inconvenienced, ie a drink card or t-shirt, or discount at the Pinnacle.

[RedmondCruiser]

I suspect that you are right when you say it's an industry wide problem. I dont' know enough to say whether HAL is better or worse than average. But I was concerned by the unresponsiveness and indifference in the way Holland America treated this problem.

 

It may be an industry-wide problem, but the industry doesn't move in concert. Each cruise line acts individually based on the forces it experiences. In the case of the Holland America - Parkwest problem, the lure of a few extra bucks from a group outweighed the cost of some disgruntled customers. The problem will continue with each cruise line until they comprehend the cost. So far the issue of groups blocking out public spaces from passengers contiues because the cruise lines can do it with relatively no consequences. So what I'm saying is that although the problem may be industry-wide, pressure must be applied by concerned passengers to each line individually to have a better chance of action.

 

Eventually, smart cruise lines will come up with innovative ways to ensure passenger satisfaction and outshine the stubborn, slower to react competition, while still accomodating groups.

 

Some possibilities (I'm just brainstorming here):

 

1. Guarrantee that no facility will be blocked for more than x hours per day, or y days per cruise.

 

2. Offer some compensation to passengers who are inconvenienced, ie a drink card or t-shirt, or discount at the Pinnacle.

 

 

What you have to realize is that "Out Of Sight - Out Of Mine" is in operation here. Every time 300 Elliott Ave sees this thread go to the back pages they give a sigh of relief. Everytime this thread shows up they go apolplexic.

 

What they, and all other cruise lines, have to realize is that this action is like shooting yourself in the foot. Yes, they make money at it, but the loss of cusomter support will not be measured until it is too late. They need to realize that renting out a premium area of the ship will cause them more problems then it is worth. If anything they need to go past rationalization and realize that they have struck a raw nerve here and it is something that should be avoided, at all cost, in the future.

 

Now lets let this thread die a normal death.

 

I am currently looking down on 300 Elliott Ave, from Queen Anne Hill, and hope that they can take direction from their most loyal customers.

[cruiseco]

 

1. Guarrantee that no facility will be blocked for more than x hours per day, or y days per cruise.

 

2. Offer some compensation to passengers who are inconvenienced, ie a drink card or t-shirt, or discount at the Pinnacle.

 

These new ships are so big that there's no reason they can't include a dedicated group function room. Groups could book it as needed but it would not be open to the non-group passengers so it would not be missed.

[ldog]

I wrote a snail mail lettler over three weeks ago. No answer yet... but maybe they don't respond to Canada.

[eh2zed]

ldog, you might be right. Now over a week and still no response to my email. Have you got a response yet to your letter. Keep me posted.

I wrote a snail mail lettler over three weeks ago. No answer yet... but maybe they don't respond to Canada.

[harbormaster]

We also wrote a snail mail May 21st. Nothing at all in terms of a response. It's a shame.

[ldog]

I wrote my letter on May 9. Still no response after almost a month. I guess I'm not going to get one.

 

Such a shame. I worked in marketing and pr - this would never have happened under my watch. Ignoring a problem doesn't make it go away.

[kryos]

My guess is they really don't want to deal with this. What are they going to say? That they do indeed rent out public spaces for the entire cruise...and we're just SOL if we get on a ship and find this out.

Exactly. They're not gonna change the policy, so what can they say? For the money they make from the large groups they host onboard, a few piddling complaints from people like us aren't gonna matter that much. My guess is sometime in the coming months, each person who wrote a letter to HAL about this will receive a standard form letter, with perhaps a certificate for a small discount on a future HAL cruise. But, of course, to take advantage of the discount, you have to book another cruise ... and then who knows? You just might have another large group onboard that one.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[RevNeal]

Holland America Executives can sometimes take a while to read and respond to the physical mail which they receive. I suspect they receive a massive volume of mail, and only have a limited number of "Special Assistants to the President" to process through it and assign the "appropriate" form-letter responses. A week, or two weeks, or a even a month or more delay in response doesn't mean that they won't reply back. My latest missive to HAL was written and mailed on March 30th ... their response back was written on May 3, mailed May 7, and received on May 9th.

 

So ... patience, young padawan. :D

[AWED23]

ldog, you might be right. Now over a week and still no response to my email. Have you got a response yet to your letter. Keep me posted.

...This is a very, very, long thread and so I can understand that many people have not read all pages of posts...In regards to email response about the Crows Nest however I suggest you read at least page 19 on which you will find posts regarding a very timely response from the director of the Mariner Society, Margaret Binnendyk...Hope it will assuage some of your concern...Rob.

[dakrewser]

...This is a very, very, long thread and so I can understand that many people have not read all pages of posts...In regards to email response about the Crows Nest however I suggest you read at least page 19 on which you will find posts regarding a very timely response from the director of the Mariner Society, Margaret Binnendyk...Hope it will assuage some of your concern...Rob.

 

If you'll read he followups to that posting, you'll see it didn't assuage anyone.

[AWED23]

If you'll read he followups to that posting, you'll see it didn't assuage anyone.

And so...........on it goes.

[Jade13]

We also wrote a snail mail May 21st. Nothing at all in terms of a response. It's a shame.

 

 

It seems they are running about a month right now in response time.

[gizmo]

If you'll read he followups to that posting, you'll see it didn't assuage anyone.

 

Agree.

 

If anything, Margaret B's response made things worse. :rolleyes:

[terrydtx]

I do not blame you for being upset. As all passengers are entiltled to use the common areas as part of passage. But be warned about Parkwest, I have been on cruises with Parkwest and their phony art auctions. They seem to be on all cruise lines now and are a MAJOR source of revenue for the cruise lines. Not only does HAL get the rental fee for the lounge but they get a percentage of all art sold too. The art "auctions" art not what they seem. You are lured into then with the promise of free cheap champagne or wine and they sell off cheap art prints at full retail to pax with little or no art buying knowledge. Parkwest boasts about how the artworks they sell will go up in value as an investment, the same BS all timshare salesmen use. Any one every bought a time share and sold it for more than you paid for it?

 

If more pax would refuse to participate in the phony art auctions Parkwest would go away and the Crows Nest would be for all to use and enjoy. Keep the complaints going to the HAL offices, but until HAL quits making revenue from Parkwest it will not change!!

[hammybee]

If more pax would refuse to participate in the phony art auctions Parkwest would go away and the Crows Nest would be for all to use and enjoy. Keep the complaints going to the HAL offices, but until HAL quits making revenue from Parkwest it will not change!!

 

This makes it sound as though Parkwest takes over the CrowsNest on every cruise. I suspect that on those few cruises where Park West did take over, the cruise was far from sold out and the last minute business decision was made to invite special and most likely European based guests onboard who were known onboard big spenders. What art these pax see and buy, may be very different than what is more commonly on display.

 

The alternative is for HAL to substantially increase its cabin prices and in doing so, risk that pax will sail another cruise line, which leads to bigger issues.

 

I will be surprised if HAL tries to dedicate the Crows Nest to ParkWest for the duration of any cruise, going forward. Time will tell.

 

I will be curious to see if this sort of thing happens again, going forward.

[m steve]

You should have had your cruise critic group walk into the auction with drinks and announce that you are using the room for a private function and have loud conversations drowning out those huckters who peddal junk art. They are the ocean going TINMEN. Whenever they put their junk on display in public areas just move them or turn them to the wall. Show that you can't be bought with their cheap bubbly. It's as much Champagne as their product is collectable art.

[twinkletoes4445]

whoops

[twinkletoes4445]

If more pax would refuse to participate in the phony art auctions Parkwest would go away and the Crows Nest would be for all to use and enjoy. Keep the complaints going to the HAL offices, but until HAL quits making revenue from Parkwest it will not change!!

 

Heck, all you have to do is go to Costco...they sell their junk art there!

 

I agree, if HAL gets enough complaints, they may stop this practice. And if they don't, they stand to lose the passengers who don't care for this practice.

[twinkletoes4445]

You should have had your cruise critic group walk into the auction with drinks and announce that you are using the room for a private function and have loud conversations drowning out those huckters who peddal junk art. They are the ocean going TINMEN. Whenever they put their junk on display in public areas just move them or turn them to the wall. Show that you can't be bought with their cheap bubbly. It's as much Champagne as their product is collectable art.

 

 

LOL..that's a good idea.