New Royal Caribbean Pricing Policy

[Gillian2]

Wow, talk about upset CCs!! I have probably traveled more than many of you and in talking to cruise line reps it does come up in the conversation (the disparity between agencies and cruise lines)!! Hence the comment of if they are receiving a lot of hassle from the public then this MAY be instrumental in their decision making. If you are a true shopper of prices you should know the value of dealing direct. Agencies charge a cancellation fee before final booking and the cruise lines take $200 deposit and no charge for cancelling. Ocean Boy, no you have not got it straight!! I think you read something totally different into my response OB and J. I find it interesting to note that jagmans1 blames me and others like me (like how?) and gets [B]very angry [/B] and then states that the rest of us need to give the topic a break. I really don't follow the response at all. However, if everyone is soooo upset then there are other cruise lines (as has been mentioned), and some of this anger can be directed towards the Republican party!

[Gillian2]

OOOOPPPSSS: Before half the readers of this thread get even more upset, I should not have mentioned p-------s at the very end of my reply. I was talking and typing and got carried away!! :)

[beachchick]

[quote name='Gillian2']I have probably traveled more than many of you... Agencies charge a cancellation fee before final booking and the cruise lines take $200 deposit and no charge for cancelling[/QUOTE]


First of all, how exactly to do surmise that you have traveled more than many of us? And do you mean cruises, in which case you probably have taken more cruises than I have, or overall travel, which is another issue entirely? You must be aware that most of the posters here are, in fact, seasoned cruisers and travellers. And how does the [I]amount[/I] of travel you have done relate to understanding this issue?

Second, not all agencies charge a cancellation fee. In fact, I have not booked with any agency, for any travel, that charges additional fees before final payment. That is a blanket statement that is blatently untrue. Please be more specific or more accurate.

beachchick

[Ocean Boy]

[quote name='Gillian2']If you are a true shopper of prices you should know the value of dealing direct. Agencies charge a cancellation fee before final booking and the cruise lines take $200 deposit and no charge for cancelling.[/QUOTE]

Sorry, but if one is a true shopper then one would know that when it comes to cruising the best value rarely comes from dealing directly with the cruise line. And though they do exist, no agency that I have dealt with charges any cancellation fees other than the ones imposed by the cruise lines once the penalty phase kicks in.

[Gillian2]

Oh my. Well at least you guys are rational! Thank you! I didn't say most of you (or us), I said many which is probably true. I think that the more you travel, especially cruises, the more you find out about various agencies, cruise lines etc. (if you talk as much as I do!!). That's interesting about no $35 or $50 cancellation fee if you deposit with a regular or internet travel agency and cancel between depositing and final payment, as every agency I have contacted in the past has quoted me that, including one I use who advertises on this very site. I find it easier just to deal with the cruise line (don't throw any eggs at me!!) and deposit (through future cruises hence the low deposit..Yes,yes I know agencies take the low deposit through FC too..) and then transfer to an internet agency if I choose to before final payment. I can therefore really investigate pricing and of course the agency receives full commission as long as you final pay with them. I even read a few postings ago that a person found a better deal and so paid the cancellation fee and went with another agency. Occasionally there are the regular (sometimes internet) travel agencies who offer the photoes, wine, shipboard credit etc.. That helps too. And, that is my point, Ocean Boy, maybe it is rare that once in a great while the cruise lines are lower, but that is the whole point of keeping options open and shopping. I booked an a Friday for a Monday 4 day cruise in Feb. and got it for $149 when the cruise line wanted $249..now [B]that's[/B] a savings percentage wise! I've also had times I've been quoted exactly the same and as I said it's usually 10% lower. I would really appreciate knowingof any agencies which give a better discount. I usually only deal with about 6 which i price compare. I'm one of these people who also books directly with the airlines!!
If I may I would like to repeat what I wrote before...consumer action not reaction will have the most influence on future policies.
Have a great day!!

[wblynch]

The kind of action (reaction) RCCL is taking in this case is similar to other product distributors lately due to their traditional retailers complaining about "unfair" competition from the Internet.

It's happened with home entertainment electronics, cameras, watches, all kinds of products.

The traditional retailers can't or won't compete because they just don't realize the impact the Internet has made on many people's shopping and purchasing behavior.

The traditional retailer hates the idea that the shoppers can shop outside the boundaries of their little town. People in the country can actually shop "in the city" from their little keyboards. The local "full service" travel agent is no longer the only game in town.

The producers/distributors think they can put the cat back in the bag with these heavy-handed policies but it's too late.

In the end, the Internet will have its way. Just as the government can not control the Internet, companies can't control it either.

Just wait and see what happens when RCCL loses 10% or 15% of its business to NCL or whoever embraces the Internet more fully. (I'm sure NCL would happily accept the influx).

.
.

[smeyer418]

Gillian2- Its interesting I have always done better with airfare(only) booking directly with the airline(on their internet site). TA's I find for the most part either don't track the low airfares or don't book you on them. Given that the airlines now limit how much they will pay the TA's to some ridiculously low price, I understand this. I have occassionally used consolidators or resellers of airfare(see the last page of the NY Times Travel section), were they can make more money between what the airlines charges and what they charge. For cruises however, through TA's I find you CAN get the lower price and I suspect that will continue even with this new policy. Why? you ask. There are many hidden discounts you won't get on line from the Cruise line. Group rates, special promotions etc....Also unlike the airlines, this is more like selling cars with larger commissions being paid to high producers. They do treat their high producers better and they can get you free upgrades occassionally and sometimes other amenities. But I do view this as an assault agianst them as well. If this succeeds, and if the ships continue to fill up, it will be group fares next, then the amenities and ultimately the commission. IMO anyway :)

[ACCagent]

[quote name='wblynch']Has anyone else noticed that RCCL's television advertising has all of a sudden dried up?

They aren't even giving free cruises to the winners on Amazing Race anymore.

Something's going on and it don't smell good.[/QUOTE]


I've seen several RCCl tv commercials in the last few days. Just saw one while watching Good Morning America this morning. It may vary by the area of the country you live in.

The notice from RCCl/Celebrity does not say it is just advertising. It also says may not sell lower. Not sure how this will play out.

[bUU]

That's really going to be key, Bill. If any major cruise line adopts the Internet, others will have to follow. For now, it doesn't appear to me that any of them have.

Regardless, if things go that way, it is still the death-knell for the small electronic booking agent, who made money only on the ability to undersell.

[BADBUOY]

Right on the money Bicker.

[brn2crz]

Two things that I have run across that I find interesting...
One...somewhere,I am pretty sure in all my RCI brochures,and on their website,it has always said "We highly recommend you use a reputable TA of your choice"

Also,and I sure hope this does not cause this thread to get removed.But on the main board here,there are still adds,by by a certain agency,and others saying something of "book online and save"???

[Dolebludger]

I read this whole thread, not out of a concern about any future RCI cruise, but out of concern for the development of a possible industry trend involving price control by cruiselines and other originators of "product" that is sold through "retailers" not owned by the originator. Here's what we know:

1 RCI will control and eliminate advertising of discounts by TAs.

Here's what we don't know:

1. Will RCI actually control TA prices, or just advertising? (The former appears to be more probably true.)

2. Are TAs agents for the lines, the customers, or are they independent and not really agents of anyone? (Important for consideration of item 3 below.)

3. Is there any anti-trust violation or not? Here, the answer to item 2 above is important. If the TAs are the lines' agent, the answer is probably no. If the TAs are not the lines' agent, the answer is probably maybe. In this regard, it was interesting to read the conflicting posts on whether an anti-trust issue is involved here. I didn't see where anyone claimed to be an attorney, and one with some anti-trust experience. I plead "guilty" on both counts. So, I particularly enjoyed reading the FTC ruling on the RCI/Princess merger. It must be realized that the FTC is largely a political animal, and this ruling never received judicial review. Given the current make-up and stance of the FTC, I can virtually guarantee that it would find that RCI is not guilty of anti trust violations here. In contrast, I say "maybe" regarding the outcome of a hypothetical lawsuit by the TA trade association against RCI for harm to the TA's business resulting from RCI's price fixing of the TAs' prices (if indeed RCI is fixing prices, and not just advertising.) I think the suit MIGHT be successful -- or not. Anybody who thinks they can predict the results of an anti-trust case in court must also have mastered the art of herding cats!

Such a case would be interesting, and probably precident-setting. Legal precident almost surely would give RCI the right to suddenly stop selling through TAs in any way, and to sell only direct to the customer. But can they continue to sell through TAs AND control the TAs pricing? If the TAs are ruled to be agents of RCI, I would predict the answer to this question would be "Yes." But if the TAs were held to be other than agents of RCI, now we'd have a "horse race", and an interesting one at that.

Interesting!
Richard

[Mark_K]

Dolebludger,

It's not so confusing at all:

1. RCI has included "or sell" in an updated policy. They are controlling prices.

2. They are agents. RCI has (so far) excluded non-agent relationship transactions (i.e. group bookings)

3. No.

[Dolebludger]

Mark K.

If, as you say, the TAs are RCI's agents, then fine. One of the posters who continually defended RCI in posts above stated that TAs were generally accepted to be agents for the customer, thus raising the question of agency here.

Richard

[Mark_K]

Dolebludger,

The courts ruled in a case involving TA's and airline fares that the TA's were their agents and the airline could set the prices. I expect the same would apply to cruiselines.

[wblynch]

Can they be "agents" of RCCL and of CCL at the same time?

If they are truly agents of RCCL, would that not infer a conflict of interest, and perhaps an anti-trust situation, if they are simultaneously agents of the competition?

Just curious how this steads in law?

[Mark_K]

wblynch,

Your typical independent insurance agent is an agent of 10-20 insurance companies at any one time. Depending on your needs, your situation, etc. they may recommend any one of them for you.

[bUU]

A very important aspect of agency is [i]authority.[/i] Authority can be [i]limited [/i]or [i]general, express [/i]or [i]implied, [/i]and those distinctions make a very big difference with respect to matters of law. Think about real estate agents: They [i]always [/i]are agents to a number of [i]competing[/i] sellers. They are granted limited authority to represent their principals in a specific manner.

[jrm9999]

[quote name='Dolebludger']Mark K.

If, as you say, the TAs are RCI's agents, then fine. One of the posters who continually defended RCI in posts above stated that TAs were generally accepted to be agents for the customer, thus raising the question of agency here.

Richard[/QUOTE]

If the TA was an agent of the customer and working for you, then you should be paying the TA for service, not the cruiseline paying a commission.

The cruiseline-TA relationship is that of a selling agent. The cruiseline pays them to be their "salesperson".

I personally believe one of the things that brought rebating to an end is the fact that some agencies "sell" people on the cruises and some are just "order takers." For all the effort cruiselines put into ads and marketing, they don't need more order takers. They can do that themselves. The order takers are not out marketing the product, there just catching the tail wind of the cruiselines advertising and marketing, listing it online saying "me too...I can offer the same as XYZ for less". The cruiselines need people to who work their tail off selling it.

I am sure I opened up a can of worms on this one. I am sure many won't agree, but it is just basic business sense.

[bUU]

[quote name='jrm9999']If the TA was an agent of the customer and working for you, then you should be paying the TA for service, not the cruiseline paying a commission.[/QUOTE]This isn't true. Buyer's agents (in real estate, for example) are paid commissions by the seller, but work for the buyer.

[quote name='jrm9999']The cruiseline-TA relationship is that of a selling agent. The cruiseline pays them to be their "salesperson".[/QUOTE]Actually, they're not paying them until they make a sale, and their authority is apparently quite limited, so they're not general agents.

[quote name='jrm9999']I personally believe one of the things that brought rebating to an end is the fact that some agencies "sell" people on the cruises and some are just "order takers." For all the effort cruiselines put into ads and marketing, they don't need more order takers.[/QUOTE]Great point.

[hikergirl_ga]

Forgive me if this question has been asked... the thread is long and I tried to search for it already but didn't see anything.

When I booked my Alaskan cruise last December I paid the price the TA quoted me. Sometime in June I noticed that the price went down so I called the TA and they made sure I got the $300 credit for the price change made by RCI. What I'm wondering is RCI going to continue to have price changes or will the prices be set and never waver even as the cruise approaches and cabins are still available? Do prices ever drop when it comes to fixed pricing?

Sorry for sounding stupid but I'm new to all this and just want to get a good idea of what's going on here. I was thrilled to get the $300 credit and would be happy to know that prices can drop even with fixed pricing.

[Ocean Boy]

There will be no changes to the variability of pricing by the cruise lines. The TAs will be confined to what ever price happens to be set by the cruise line on any particular day and hour. In your case, the same type of price drop could occur and you would be able to get the savings.

[hikergirl_ga]

Thank you!

[jrm9999]

[quote name='bicker']This isn't true. Buyer's agents (in real estate, for example) are paid commissions by the seller, but work for the buyer.[/QUOTE]

Your right about this in real estate, although I was under the impression that when a buyer has an agent, the selling agent and buyers agent split the commission the selling agent would have kept to themselves

[quote name='bicker']Actually, they're not paying them until they make a sale, and their authority is apparently quite limited, so they're not general agents.[/QUOTE]

True. I basically look at it as a commission only sales person. Or an even better example might be manfacturers who use manufacturers reps. These reps may sell a bunch of lines. They act as a sales person for the manufacturer and take a comission on sales and are generally required to sell the goods for prices set by the manufacturer.

[bUU]

In real estate, there is [b]always[/b] a split between the [b]selling[/b] agent and the [b][u]listing[/u][/b] agent. The [b]buyer's [/b]agent, when there is one, [u]replaces[/u] the [b]selling[/b] agent in the transaction, and gets the entire selling agent commission.

A TA is different from a standard "commission-only sales person" in that the TA is not beholden to any one supplier, but can actually sell for competitors. That makes them even less associated to the seller than a standard sales person.