As You Wish Dining - Opinions, Comments and Discussions

[RevNeal]

Interesting speculation. A traditionalist sees this as a potential indicator that the AYW concept is being rejected, whereas someone more open to exploring change may see it as a positive move to prevent those in the know from hogging the most desirable time slot, in between fixed and early seating, thereby forcing everyone else to dine around them.

 

Or, it could be both/and. If Traditional reservations are more than what the Line has alloted for in the Dining Room division, and if the Line is serious about AYW in giving the passenger the actual CHOICE, then it could be that they are enabling Traditional for those who want it by allowing the reserving of tables in the Open Seating area only for the Traditional times.

 

Here's a question from someone who, apparently, has been judged less "open to exploring change": If the objective is to keep people from hogging the most desirable time slot (7:00 - 7:30 pm) then why not just bar all reservations for that time slot ONLY, rather than allow Reservations ONLY for the traditional Dining Times?

[RevNeal]

It sounds like this is what they are doing. The problem I still see is it still doesn't address the solo cruiser.

Could this be possible ? Those that wanted Traditional were seated in AYW dining room at the Traditional times, and at the same table. Solo cruisers could be accomodated if they were assigned a table with others that requested Traditional.

 

Yes and no. Yes, HAL could do that. And, no, since HAL doesn't really care that much about solo cruisers it really doesn't pay them to do it for us. Oh, sure, they provide us with one of the industry's lowest single supplements -- meaning that they DO care about us, some -- but I don't think that, once they've gotten us aboard ship, they really care too much about accommodating us in our dining preferences. Perhaps I'm jaded? I HOPE I'm proven very wrong.

[hammybee]

If the objective is to keep people from hogging the most desirable time slot (7:00 - 7:30 pm) then why not just bar all reservations for that time slot ONLY, rather than allow Reservations ONLY for the traditional Dining Times?

 

I am thinking that this is, in effect, what they have done, given that early seating takes a predetermined amount of time. In other words, if one wants the 7-7:30 window, no one is given an advantage to obtain it. It's first come, first seated.

 

I think we can all appreciate how implementation of the unique AYW concept is creating uncertainty, where certainty once existed. I think we can all appreciate that the concept is evolving as the cruise line gains hands on experience with passenger behaviors. If the only driver were neutralizing NCL marketing, I think HAL would have abandoned it. Again, just one girl's opinion.

[Odd Ball]

I am thinking that this is, in effect, what they have done, given that early seating takes a predetermined amount of time. In other words, if one wants the 7-7:30 window, no one is given an advantage to obtain it. It's first come, first seated.

 

 

Then why not call it First Come, First Seated ? If a person desires to dine at 7-7:30 window, and cannot, it is not As You Wish. :rolleyes:

[RevNeal]

I think we can all appreciate how implementation of the unique AYW concept is creating uncertainty, where certainty once existed. I think we can all appreciate that the concept is evolving as the cruise line gains hands on experience with passenger behaviors. If the only driver were neutralizing NCL marketing, I think HAL would have abandoned it. Again, just one girl's opinion.

 

I don't disagree. HAL is doing this because it's what at least some passengers have been asking for in their comment cards, plus HAL is playing "follow the leader" rather than being leaders, themselves. Be that as it may, I look forward to seeing how the dining schemes work themselves out. I hope HAL keeps things as flexible as possible in terms of the allotment of Traditional vs. Open seating, etc. I also hope that HAL is sensitive to the needs of different groups of people, rather than treating us like interchangeable pegs.

[gizmo]

 

What makes you think they haven't? I believe some people are making that assumption solely because (1) that they weren't personally consulted and (2) they don't like what the normalized data seems to be indicating.

 

Not one person on this board was polled or asked.

[hammybee]

. The problem I still see is it still doesn't address the solo cruiser.

 

Could this be possible ? Those that wanted Traditional were seated in AYW dining room at the Traditional times, and at the same table. Solo cruisers could be accomodated if they were assigned a table with others that requested Traditional.

 

In the big picture, I do not think accommodating solo cruisers is high on the list of priorities for any cruise line. Yes, this is unfortuntunate and yet the the financial reality of the business, unless the solo is paying for double occupancy and if tips are not included, tipping for two, as is required on some cruise lines. This is most definitely not limited to the cruising business.

 

Fortunately, for all solo cruisers, is that they are able to snag a decent value, from time to time, whereby the single suppliment is waived or minimal.

[moveup]

Just to clarify my earlier post, we WERE able to dine at or around 7 p.m. every night. We weren't able to make a RESERVATION for that time but we came to the dining room and checked in with the maitre d' and never had to wait more than 5 minutes for our requested table size. All the passengers on our cruise that we talked to about the traditional and as-you-wish options thought HAL was doing an excellent job accommodating varying desires for dining. Those who wanted traditional fixed dining (early or late seating) were assigned tables on Deck 3. Those who wanted "as you wish" dining came to Deck 2. Occasionally we would then be seated on Deck 3 if there was an empty table (i.e., someone from the first fixed seating chose to eat in the Lido buffet or in their cabin). It was smooth and easy.

[hammybee]

Move-up:

We had a similar experience on the Noordam, in May. There was quite a positive buzz about AYW and that HAL was still offering traditional seating for those who preferred it. We met and dined with many who chose the Noordam specifically because it offered a more upscale experience and AYW dining.

 

We did not experience any wait for a table. Unlike your cruise, a part of the lower dining room had been reserved for extended traditional seating to accommodate passenger choice. As the cruise progressed, it became obvious that more and more traditional diners were opting out of fixed seating as there were many empty fixed seating tables on both levels, regardless of when we dined. We also dined in and/or toured the LIDO on most evenings and were surprised as to the number of passengers who chose to dine there, in a more casual fashion. This might be attributed to Alaska being a more causal cruise for many.

 

The dining dynamics change from cruise to cruise so what you and I experienced may or may not be indicitive of the overall season experience.

 

Overall we were pleased with AYW although having it or not has no influence on which cruise we will book or not.

[O2B@C]

It sounds like this is what they are doing. The problem I still see is it still doesn't address the solo cruiser.

 

Could this be possible ? Those that wanted Traditional were seated in AYW dining room at the Traditional times, and at the same table. Solo cruisers could be accomodated if they were assigned a table with others that requested Traditional.

 

It certainly would be a nice gesture - and at no cost to HAL - to give solos priority for available slots in Traditional if they request it. That would go some way toward alleviating the negative impact of AYW on those most affected by it.

[NHBob]

I don't think waitlisting is telling us anything about passenger preferences. It's smoke and mirrors.

 

The missing link is, I think " groups" and "group sales". Seating is being suspended in favor of potential groups and group cabin sales. We have been told this, on this board, by travel agents and group/ charter organizers. We also know that HAL holds back tables to accommodate those who will book higher end cabins.

 

Probably right. So, I guess current HAL dining scheme should be re-named "AHAWAAGASO" - "as Holland America wishes after accomodating groups and suite occupants."

[hammybee]

It certainly would be a nice gesture - and at no cost to HAL - to give solos priority for available slots in Traditional if they request it. That would go some way toward alleviating the negative impact of AYW on those most affected by it.

 

And no one knows with any certainty, this will not happen. All we are doing is speculating.

[bUU]

Then why not call it First Come, First Seated ? If a person desires to dine at 7-7:30 window, and cannot, it is not As You Wish. :rolleyes:

I think all the focus on the words used to describe the offering is missing the point. Call it "alternative" if you wish, and move on. The label isn't the point.

[bUU]

Not one person on this board was polled or asked.

I don't believe you could have any way of knowing that. Regardless, who cares whether any member of any niche was polled. What matters when polling is that you poll a normalized sample of your target market.

[bUU]

Just to clarify my earlier post, we WERE able to dine at or around 7 p.m. every night. We weren't able to make a RESERVATION for that time but we came to the dining room and checked in with the maitre d' and never had to wait more than 5 minutes for our requested table size.

This is great news. It does sound like the system is working. We actually would probably arrive earlier. Do you have a feel for when, if ever, there was any significant wait for an AYW table?

[gizmo]

I don't believe you could have any way of knowing that. Regardless, who cares whether any member of any niche was polled. What matters when polling is that you poll a normalized sample of your target market.

 

How do you know if anyone was polled ?

[hammybee]

What matters when polling is that you poll a normalized sample of your target market.

 

( my bold facing)

 

From a marketing standpoint, this is correct. We could debate, till the cows come home, the object of the target market.:D

 

I think it reasonable for HAL to assume that their most loyal Mariners prefer a traditional fixed seating experience, else they would not continue to return, again and again. I am thinking this is why HAL is balancing the two venues and, at least from my experience, seems to be striving to give all passengers what they want, albeit early versus late fixed seating is not always possible, with or without AYW.

[bUU]

How do you know if anyone was polled ?

You would get a job with the cruise line marketing department and then you'll know. Barring that, you don't know, which was the point.

[bUU]

I think it reasonable for HAL to assume that their most loyal Mariners prefer a traditional fixed seating experience, else they would not continue to return, again and again. I am thinking this is why HAL is balancing the two venues and, at least from my experience, seems to be striving to give all passengers what they want, albeit early versus late fixed seating is not always possible, with or without AYW.

Indeed. That also clearly indicates that Mariners are not an overwhelming majority of the target market, but rather something between a simple majority down to a minority of the target. This makes sense since Mariners are in a way a captive market: Unless they want to pay a lot more, HAL is probably still the closest to what they want, even though not exactly.

[RevNeal]

( my bold facing)

 

From a marketing standpoint, this is correct. We could debate, till the cows come home, the object of the target market.:D

 

I think it reasonable for HAL to assume that their most loyal Mariners prefer a traditional fixed seating experience, else they would not continue to return, again and again. I am thinking this is why HAL is balancing the two venues and, at least from my experience, seems to be striving to give all passengers what they want, albeit early versus late fixed seating is not always possible, with or without AYW.

 

At least two kinds of polls have been taken. Firstly, HAL officials have stated that the various dining tests (initially aboard the Oosterdam, and then aboard the Noordam) were all conducted in direct response to Comment Card requests for some kind of "Freestyle" dining alternative on HAL. These requests have come from people who have cruised on HAL at least once and who, voluntarily (and without prompting from the Line), have written into the general comments section of the cruise review form a request for such "open" dining options. Secondly, I and thousands of others have been specifically and directly polled regarding our opinions of our actual experiences of the many various dining tests conducted aboard the Oosterdam. I don't know about polling of the system on the Noordam ... I cruised aboard her in January 2007 and was not polled regarding the test then-underway (other than the normal comment card).

 

In other words, at least part of the Market from which HAL actually received input (input which played a roll in occasioning these changes) has been HAL Mariners. If HAL wants input from Mariners, why not poll us directly? IF HAL polled the Mariner database directly on this matter, I believe it is quite reasonable for us to say that we would have heard about it on this board ... either directly (through at least one of our number being polled) or indirectly through all of our many contacts among non-CCer Mariners. While we may not be a representative sampling of even the Mariner-segment of HAL's target Market, we are a rather large collection of people with broad contacts throughout that target Market ... and, each of us is known by our friends and contacts to be people who are interested in such matters. As a result, when HAL conducts a poll of Mariners, we quickly hear about it on this board. It has happened several times over the last few years. Indeed, I myself have been directly polled (via e-mail) by HAL more than once for various reasons (a general poll on what itineraries I prefer, and a poll on my opinion of the Pinnacle Grill's menu offerings). In short, when HAL polls its Mariners, even if none of us are directly polled, we nevertheless quickly hear of it on this board. If a poll on dining preferences were actually conducted of HAL Mariners and, somehow, none of those Mariners happened to be any of us, the chances of us knowing some of those Mariners and those Mariners knowing our particular proclivities on these issues, are very great. One of us would have been either polled or told about the polling by a Mariner who was.

 

I don't believe that a direct poll of Mariners was ever conducted on this issue. We KNOW that a Mariner-wide poll wasn't conducted, because if it were truly a poll of all Mariners then, by definition, all of the Mariners who post on this board would have been polled. We can also be fairly confident that a random sampling poll of Mariners didn't occur because, had one been conducted, either (1) one of us would have been in the poll, or (2) we would have heard of someone who was in the poll.

 

So ... what Market is HAL's target? Other cruisers on other lines? If so, then HAL might have bought a mailing list from another line and sampled them. But ... then ... we're back to where we were in a hypothetical Mariner-base polling. Had they conducted such a poll among Princess or Carnival passengers there is a good chance that one of them would have been a CCer on one of the other boards ... and they would have come here and told us about it (if for no other reason than to watch us squirm). Or, given that I'm on several of those mailing lists myself, it seems likely that HAL might have polled even some of us through that method.

 

So ... again ... what is HALs target market? Is HAL likely to re-create work already done, or just observe market trends -- what the other lines or doing -- and copy it? Given market trends, along with the way that fleet-wide comment cards have been trending, it seems likely that HAL has determined a need to offer AYW based upon those two simple factors. Given what I, and others, have been told as to "why" this is happening, that seems reasonable to me.

[RevNeal]

I think it reasonable for HAL to assume that their most loyal Mariners prefer a traditional fixed seating experience, else they would not continue to return, again and again. I am thinking this is why HAL is balancing the two venues and, at least from my experience, seems to be striving to give all passengers what they want, albeit early versus late fixed seating is not always possible, with or without AYW.

 

I agree, Hammy. HAL may well have not polled the Mariners about this because they assume -- right or wrong -- that the majority of their Mariner base wants Traditional. Their interest is in picking up market-share among those who have cruised other lines and among those who have not cruised at all. Hence, polling Marines about this (other than in direct connection with how their tests were going) doesn't help them. But, observing the requests in the comment cards and market trends, in general, tells them what they need to know to pick up market share.

[LuvsDamships]

Reverend, I think you make a good point. It is unlikely that no one on this board at least heard of such a poll taking place if it happened among HAL's past passengers.

 

However, I don't think that HAL is interested in their past-passengers on this subject. As you say, they know most such passengers will prefer the old way of doing things. What they want to know is what will attract more passengers to fill all the cabins they've got to fill on each cruise, while minimizing the loss of old passengers. So, they didn't poll Mariners and they probably didn't poll other cruise line's past-passengers. I think they polled people outside of the cruise community, people whom HAL wants to turn into future cruisers.

[Odd Ball]

I think all the focus on the words used to describe the offering is missing the point. Call it "alternative" if you wish, and move on. The label isn't the point.

 

You may call it "alternative" but Hal is calling it "As You Wish".

 

I take exception to you telling me to "move on". Voice your opinion but DON'T tell me what to do.

[RevNeal]

You may call it "alternative" but Hal is calling it "As You Wish".

 

I take exception to you telling me to "move on". Voice your opinion but DON'T tell me what to do.

 

Don't take it personally ... he does that a lot.

[HeatherInFlorida]

.................However, I don't think that HAL is interested in their past-passengers on this subject. As you say, they know most such passengers will prefer the old way of doing things. What they want to know is what will attract more passengers to fill all the cabins they've got to fill on each cruise, while minimizing the loss of old passengers. ..............

 

Bingo:D !