As You Wish Dining - Opinions, Comments and Discussions

[PRINSENDAM]

Vistafjord/Caronia[/i] (my Cunard favorite) and Sagafjord, both with Saga now - I believe Saga retained the single cabins when they bought the ships from Cunard and refit them as Saga Rose and Saga Ruby. (A Swedish friend commented that Saga Ruby sounds like the name of somebody you would find in a Swedish brothel).

 

 

 

Bob,

 

Saga Ruby from a Swedish brothel? :o Saga Rose from a Soho brothel!!!!:rolleyes:

 

Both these ships ratined their single cabins. Saga would NEVER do away with them. Likewise they would never do away with the single sitting for all passengers. Sure the sitting lasts from 7pm until 9 pm but the majority of pax sit between 7.15 and 7.45. One feature that you never hear Saga passengers asking for.... balconies!

[RuthC]

From the little I know of Saga it's a cruiseline I could get interested in. More research is needed, of course, before I would book, but they are a line that seems worth the energy to do the research.

[crystal808]

And both Cunard and Seabourn also charge 200% for single occupancy. Seabourn advertises guaranteed single rates, subject to availability, but I've yet to find it available. Too bad, as I understand that Seabourn, although open seating, accommodates singles very well, often seating them at officers' tables.

 

 

Bob:

 

Indeed, SB treats its solo travelers very well in regards to dining. Virtually every day you receive an invitation to a "hosted" table, usually officers or staff members. You can accept, or decline, at your discretion. It's a delight to be "included" and you have the opportunity to get to meet the staff & fellow passengers.

 

The trick to getting a lower single supplement than 200% is to book EARLY. I once got a 110% supplement; they seem to be very elusive, to be sure! Since, I've paid both 125% & 150%, depending upon availability. The lower priced cruises will be the Caribbean, and transatlantics. I have deposits on 4/08 & 4/09 transatlantics on the SB Legend, and got quite a deal on both, all things considered, by booking as early as I did (a year or more in advance).

 

(Avid SB fans have their travel agents "primed" to jump on deposits as soon as dates are released; makes it that much harder to get a "better" supplement for some of us, but well worth trying!)

 

Now, back to the regular (dining) thread....

 

Paul

[NHBob]

Received a card today from the Office of the President, HAL, in response to my letter of August 13th regarding traditional dining availability on Zuiderdam March '08 TA. Card reads, in part:

 

"Please be assured that we respond to all inquiries..... In order to give you the highest level of service, it is usually necessary to thoroughly research and investigate your concerns prior to responding, and we appreciate your patience with our process... You will be hearing from us soon."

 

Feeling charitable today, so will assume they are really working on the problem and not just stalling.

 

Paul, thanks for SB info. I had tried for '08 crossing, but was too late. Didn't realize they were already accepting '09 bookings, but will check to see if TA is still available.

[pms4104]

Based on comments in this very long thread, it would seem that traditional dining may be the coveted/most sought dining option.

 

Curious how the daily AYW reservationist would handle pax who have confirmed traditional dining and simply want to try open seating. Would HAL suggest strongly that they stick with traditional? Translation: force them to stick with traditional or eat in-room or in the Lido. Would HAL accommodate them for AYW and confiscate their traditional dining assignment and offer it to pax who were waitlisted for traditional and took open seating because that was their only option in the main dining venue? Guessing HAL asks cabin # when AYW reservations are made ... so they could track pax switching. Just wondering.

[hammybee]

Based on comments in this very long thread, it would seem that traditional dining may be the coveted/most sought dining option.

 

Guessing HAL asks cabin # when AYW reservations are made ... so they could track pax switching. Just wondering.

 

It is said that CC represents about 1-3% of all cruising passengers. For this reason, I do not think any conclusions reached on any CC board necessarily jives with what cruise lines hear, from the majority of passengers.

 

On the Noordam, in May ( where all requests for traditional seating were accommodated) passengers reserving AYW, presenting themselves at the AYW Dining Room and the LIDo were asked for their cabins numbers. HAL was clearly trying to get their arms around what became a game of musical dining chairs. I think this information, played out through the majority of the Alaska season, caused HAL to rethink their policy of allowing passengers to spontaneously opt out of traditional seating.

[RuthC]

It is said that CC represents about 1-3% of all cruising passengers. For this reason, I do not think any conclusions reached on any CC board necessarily jives with what cruise lines hear, from the majority of passengers.

That CC members represent a small percentage of HAL cruisers does not necessarily mean they are not representative of the larger population.

It is more likely that HAL is hearing (if, in fact that is what they are hearing) a call for AYW because those who are used to traditional dining have never felt the need to say "keep it".

We didn't vote because we didn't realize there was an election going on! :eek:

[hammybee]

That CC members represent a small percentage of HAL cruisers does not necessarily mean they are not representative of the larger population.

 

It is more likely that HAL is hearing (if, in fact that is what they are hearing) a call for AYW because those who are used to traditional dining have never felt the need to say "keep it".

 

We didn't vote because we didn't realize there was an election going on! :eek:

 

I am thinking any way you shake it, a substantial number of passengers on 7 day sails want more flexibility because ( here we go again) early is too early and late is too late.

 

It is obvious that as time goes bye, more and more passengers, including passengers with 50+ HAL cruises under their belts, prefer smaller tables and do not view dinner as a social opportunity it once was. These are also the sails in direct competition with the NCL Machine.

 

I was surprised as anyone to see AYW was indended for implementation on all ships, all sails. This suggests to me that there may be other motives. Perhaps it requires fewer servers to serve and support dinner when it is spread over a longer period of time.

 

RCL is also experimenting with a flexible/schmexible dining arrangement and the loyal, long time RCL cruisers are hot under the coller too.

[SherriZ366]

RCL is also experimenting with a flexible/schmexible dining arrangement and the loyal, long time RCL cruisers are hot under the coller too.

We sure are!!!!!

[hammybee]

hot under the coller too.

 

Why is it that I do not notice misspellings until someone quotes me? Of course I meant collar. It's probably one of many.:o

[RuthC]

I am thinking any way you shake it, a substantial number of passengers on 7 day sails want more flexibility because ( here we go again) early is too early and late is too late.

I'm not privy to any evidence that supports to what extent passengers want "flexibility". I know I've never been polled by HAL, and would bet that most Mariners haven't, either. Since traditional dining fills up before AYW it seems that the greater number of passengers want traditional.

Since the new dining plan isn't limited to 7-day sails it's wrong to restrict the discussion to the desires of passengers to that time frame.

[LuvsDamships]

Cruise Critic only represents a small % of all HAL cruisers.

But it even a 2 or 3% sampling can yield important information to any statistician. It is not an insignificant body of data.

 

In all my HAL cruises I have never said I loved traditional dining. So, how does HAL know that such is what I, or any other cruisers, desire? If all they read are those who want open seating, with no one saying they want traditional, what else are they supposed to think? But, the data in such a case is misleading. HAL should be a bit more proactive and actually poll their passengers on what the desire, rather than going with just market trends and complainers.

[LuvsDamships]

I'm not privy to any evidence that supports to what extent passengers want "flexibility". I know I've never been polled by HAL, and would bet that most Mariners haven't, either. Since traditional dining fills up before AYW it seems that the greater number of passengers want traditional.

Since the new dining plan isn't limited to 7-day sails it's wrong to restrict the discussion to the desires of passengers to that time frame.

 

What she said.

The chocolate lady said it much better than I.

[RuthC]

What she said.

The chocolate lady said it much better than I.

I barely know you and I like you already, David. ;)

[hammybee]

I'm not privy to any evidence that supports to what extent passengers want "flexibility". I know I've never been polled by HAL, and would bet that most Mariners haven't, either. Since traditional dining fills up before AYW it seems that the greater number of passengers want traditional.

Since the new dining plan isn't limited to 7-day sails it's wrong to restrict the discussion to the desires of passengers to that time frame.

 

I don't think waitlisting is telling us anything about passenger preferences. It's smoke and mirrors.

 

The missing link is, I think " groups" and "group sales". Seating is being suspended in favor of potential groups and group cabin sales. We have been told this, on this board, by travel agents and group/ charter organizers. We also know that HAL holds back tables to accommodate those who will book higher end cabins.

 

This has been going on for a few years, well before any of us ever heard of AYW. Usually it's early seating, occasionally late.

 

I am thinking that the enemy may not be AYW as much as it is the business necessity to leave the seating options open to secure potential group sales and reserve space for those who pay a premium.

 

I appreciate that many folk do not care about the why's and want what they want, when they want it. This is just one girl's opinion. I am neutral on the topic of AYW and have been there and done it.

[bUU]

IMHO there is no reason HAL can't be flexible with this plan, except for one man's ego to maKe changes to "bring HAL up to date".

I see no reason to think (1) that ego is a factor, nor (2) that HAL isn't going to be flexible. It is too early to tell either.

 

Sounds like too many people are jumping the gun, reacting to the sound of something rather than its long-term reality. There is no question in my mind that solos will end up worse-off this way -- they're going to end up worse off in this industry, unfortunately, due to the nature of the way the industry is going. However, beyond that, it is too soon to start laying personal guilt on the feet of individual corporate managers, especially since for all we know this could actually be a success. You cannot legitimately "blame" someone for causing a success, even if you don't like the results of the success.

[bUU]

I do not think any conclusions reached on any CC board necessarily jives with what cruise lines hear, from the majority of passengers.

That CC members represent a small percentage of HAL cruisers does not necessarily mean they are not representative of the larger population.

hammybee didn't say that. She was responding to people trying to use the "furor of the mob" as rationalization for assertions that what HAL is doing is not in concert with what is most preferred by the customer base. The reality is that the "furor of the mob" is practically meaningless in the grand scheme of things, because this population is not a normalized sample of the broader population (and pretty niche-focused for that matter). I believe hammybee's point is that people have no foundation for some assertions being made -- she wasn't saying that there is foundation for contrary assertions.

 

In a nutshell, people should stick to "I like" and "I don't like" and leave "it's right" and "it's wrong" to the professional managers who have access to the revenue data.

 

We didn't vote because we didn't realize there was an election going on! :eek:

There is always a vote going on, but your question indicates you perhaps didn't realize where the ballot box was. The ballot box for voting for something is your credit card: Spend money, book voyages. Talk is cheap.

[bUU]

But it even a 2 or 3% sampling can yield important information to any statistician.

If the sample is normalized. There is no reason to think that we have a normalized sample here. None whatsoever. Consequently, the 'data' is indeed worthless.

 

HAL should be a bit more proactive and actually poll their passengers on what the desire, rather than going with just market trends and complainers.

What makes you think they haven't? I believe some people are making that assumption solely because (1) that they weren't personally consulted and (2) they don't like what the normalized data seems to be indicating.

[kryos]

What makes you think they haven't? I believe some people are making that assumption solely because (1) that they weren't personally consulted and (2) they don't like what the normalized data seems to be indicating.

Exactly right. Unless HAL is run by imbiciles, they would never have put such a major change into place without having lots of data to support the demand for same. I am sure they either have stacks and stacks of comment cards, where people have said "why don't you have a flexible dining option?" or they have taken several surveys that overwhelmingly expressed a desire for AYW dining. Just because someone wasn't asked to participate in a survey doesn't mean one wasn't conducted.

 

Sadly, I think the tide is just against the HAL traditionalists in this case. The majority favor a flexible option, so at least for now, HAL is adding one to the already-existing traditional dining. If it ever gets to the point that flexible dining is the overall favorite, I'd also be willing to bet that HAL will dump traditional altogether since, unlike Princess, their ship designs are gonna make it difficult to offer both.

 

Just my humble opinion.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[RevNeal]

Rita,

 

You're probably correct. As I've said before, the acid-test is going to be the result: how many people demand Traditional as opposed to Open. Thus far we just don't know. It would appear that Traditional is being over-run with requests, but the "waitlistings" may reflect something else going on.

 

I suppose, after several months of operation on a fleet-wide basis, it might be possible to give an educated guess based upon the percentage of the dining room that's Traditional as opposed to the percentage that's Open.

 

As for not being polled ... no Mariner-wide poll has been made. If one had been held, and if it were truly Mariner-wide, then a lot of people on this board would have been polled. They have all of us in their database, but none of us were polled on it. At least, not directly. That being said, I was polled regarding my experience with the Leisure Dining Service aboard the Oosterdam a year ago. The poll was specific with regard to my actual experience with the plan as it was executed aboard the Oosterdam on my cruise. However, that's a far-cry from a Mariner-wide poll of what the Mariner's wishes are regarding dining issues. Such a poll, canvassing the opinions of all Mariners, was not conducted. Even a blind, random sampling of the Mariners should have produced at least someone among our numbers (either directly or by our connections with a wide range of other Mariners) who was polled. True, we may not be a direct representative sampling of all those who cruise HAL, however we do represent a wide range of Mariners with connections to other Mariners both on and off the internet. I know a lot of Mariners who do not post on Cruise Critic, but none of them have been polled either; and, I'm not alone in this.

 

Based upon what I have been told, HAL's program regarding AYW has been occasioned by comment card requests, on the one hand, and Market trends on the other. When I asked Mr. Minsink why the "Leisure Dining Service" test was being conducted aboard the Oosterdam, his explanation was that on every cruise throughout the fleet there had long been a growing number of comment cards from people asking about "Freestyle" and why HAL didn't have it. "HAL's current ships are not configured to provide a true Freestyle experience, however we can provide greater options in dining and, since our passengers are asking for that, we're trying to find ways of providing it." My answer was "But I've not asked for it, nor did I know to ask for Traditional because that's what you've always provided." He smiled and said "then answer your comment cards with your request to keep Traditional." I told him I would, and since then I always have. However, I'm sure that among Traditionalists I am somewhat rare ... most Traditionalists are only now learning (by experience) that they need to be asking for what they want.

 

While traditionalists may well be in the majority on the longer, Mariner-heavy sailings, on the "bread-and-butter" runs in the Caribbean, we're probably a minority.

[moveup]

Just got back from 7-night Alaska cruise on Noordam. "As you wish" dining means you can show up anytime and wait for a table. On the first night we tried to "reserve" a table for 7 p.m. but they would only take reservations at the same times as the fixed early and late seatings. As it turned out, we never had to wait more than 5 minutes and were able to get our requested size table (2) every time. If you don't request a particular table size they tend to put you at a larger table with other passengers, and no one can order until the table is full and everyone has had a chance to look at the menu.

[RevNeal]

On the first night we tried to "reserve" a table for 7 p.m. but they would only take reservations at the same times as the fixed early and late seatings.

 

Hmmm ... that's interesting. I wonder why? Is it, perhaps, because so many Traditionalists have been forced into Open seating and, so, are trying to re-create the feel of Traditional by reserving the same tables at the Traditional times?

[hammybee]

Just got back from 7-night Alaska cruise on Noordam. "As you wish" dining means you can show up anytime and wait for a table. On the first night we tried to "reserve" a table for 7 p.m. but they would only take reservations at the same times as the fixed early and late seatings. As it turned out, we never had to wait more than 5 minutes and were able to get our requested size table (2) every time. If you don't request a particular table size they tend to put you at a larger table with other passengers, and no one can order until the table is full and everyone has had a chance to look at the menu.

 

Welcome to the minority who have actually tried AYW and live to tell. :D

 

For those keeping tabs, there have been at least two changes to AYW as the Alaskan season, on the Noordam, has progressed.

 

First, it appears they have discontinued allowing those in traditional seating to opt into AYW. This make sense given what I saw on the Noordam, in May. It was obvious that HAL had no idea when /where anyone was going to present for dinner because so many in traditional seating opted for more flexibility.

 

Second, based upon what you shared, HAL may be trying to avoid the problems that existed on Princess whereby those in the know, reserved the best tables at the premium dinner window of 7-7:30, leaving those who did not know, to work around them and dine, either very early or late.

 

Remaining constant is that unless diners request a private table, they will be seated with others recently seated. This of course makes sense as it would be potentially disruptive to the table and the wait staff to have passengers at the same table, on substantially different courses.

 

The pause we experienced was similar to that which we have experienced in traditional dining, as passengers arrive to their tables. It was substantially less than the waits we have encountered when we have had the misfortune of being seated with others who were consistently late for dinner.

 

It's good to see the AYW concept evolve as the crew on the Noordam gains experience with passenger behaviors, the root cause for most disruptions.

[Odd Ball]

Hmmm ... that's interesting. I wonder why? Is it, perhaps, because so many Traditionalists have been forced into Open seating and, so, are trying to re-create the feel of Traditional by reserving the same tables at the Traditional times?

 

It sounds like this is what they are doing. The problem I still see is it still doesn't address the solo cruiser.

Could this be possible ? Those that wanted Traditional were seated in AYW dining room at the Traditional times, and at the same table. Solo cruisers could be accomodated if they were assigned a table with others that requested Traditional.

[hammybee]

Hmmm ... that's interesting. I wonder why? Is it, perhaps, because so many Traditionalists have been forced into Open seating and, so, are trying to re-create the feel of Traditional by reserving the same tables at the Traditional times?

 

Interesting speculation. A traditionalist sees this as a potential indicator that the AYW concept is being rejected, whereas someone more open to exploring change may see it as a positive move to prevent those in the know from hogging the most desirable time slot, in between fixed and early seating, thereby forcing everyone else to dine around them.

 

Regardless, I am holding with my position that leaving their options open, allows the cruise line the optimum flexibility to acommodate potential group sales, suite passengers and the clients from the highest producing travel agents. This is not much different than how most commerical airlines allocate passenger seats.