Can you handle another tipping thread? What I saw.

[lknick]

[quote name='jhannah']I fail to see how the post was unkind whatsoever. It was simply providing factual information. Aren't we all better off with facts than with speculations?[/QUOTE]IMO, by simply calling the posters facts into question...and she was deficient...he is simply saying 'in that your facts are wrong, your post is without merit.'

Just as I quarried Rev as to how the change in facts revises the conclusion, tell me how the clarification revised the conclusions.

[RevNeal]

[QUOTE]Rev, your post was unkind as in my mind it only serves to put down the poster. And in what way did your factual correction change the point?[/QUOTE]

Huh?
What did I say that "put down" anyone?

[RevNeal]

[QUOTE]Just as I quarried Rev as to how the change in facts revises the conclusion, tell me how the clarification revised the conclusions.[/QUOTE]

I didn't claim that it revised any conclusion at all. I just stated that there are staff members on HAL that are not from the Philippines. Nothing "unkind" was intended or implied in my statement. I'm sorry if you think that I was unkind.

[RevNeal]

[QUOTE]IMO, by simply calling the posters facts into question...and she was deficient...he is simply saying 'in that your facts are wrong, your post is without merit.'[/QUOTE]

You've read far more into my post than was there. I was simply offering a correction on a single detail. I wasn't addressing anything else in the post. That USUALLY means I otherwise agree with the content ... and certainly [i]not[/i] the accusation which you put into my hands.

I'm sorry that you think I was being unkind or was stating that a post was without merit. Such was not the case.

[RevNeal]

Dear The_Hall_Monitor,

Please know that I was not, in any way, addressing anything in your post other than the statement regarding the nationality of cruisestaff personnel. The substance of your post was, otherwise, unaddressed by me and, indeed, stands quite well even considering the various nationalities of the ship's staff.

I'm sorry if my point was taken in an unkind way. No unkindness was intended or, in my opinion, implied.

Grace and Peace,

[cactuslady]

Rev--
Sounds like the chisels and pickaxes are starting to hurt from you being quarried so much. ;)

[RevNeal]

[QUOTE]Sounds like the chisels and pickaxes are starting to hurt from you being quarried so much. ;)[/QUOTE]

LOL
Indubitably!

[Globaliser]

[QUOTE=Kami's pal]Globilzer
So, I was correct in thinking that the new (i.e. pooling tips) policy (May, 2004) was a way of insuring the increase of salaries for some behind the scenes staff such as chefs even though that probably would decrease the salaries of some waiters and cabin staff?
Seems a convoluted way to increase salaries. Yes, I would prefer $200 increase in fares, rather than this method.
Yes, I have voted with my checkbook. No more HAL for me.[/QUOTE]I think this may be jumping to conclusions.

What I think we don't know is whether, under the old system, people's voluntary tips reached $10 per day or whether so many people regarded tipping as optional that not that much was, on average, handed over despite the efforts of those who adhered to conventional levels of tipping and those who tipped beyond those amounts.

I think we also don't know how much tip sharing went on behind the scenes under the old system. Neither do I think we know whether and how much base salaries have been adjusted on the introduction of this new system to allow for the changes and the announced pooling arrangements.

But what I do know is that if I am supposed to pay the crew $10 per day after I get on board, I really do not care one jot whether it's an automatic tip collected on my shipboard account or a service charge collected on my shipboard account.

[The_Hall_Monitor]

Well .....

Getting back to the point I was trying to make -- that crew members (of both nationalities) make vastly more money at sea than do their neighbors who work locally --- and the reason they do it is because they believe it's the choice that is best for them and their family.

Having not had this particular conversation about wages, family needs, living standards, etc. with an Indonesian, I did not allege any personal discourse (of the sort I've shared with Filipinos).

See [url]http://www.asiaweek.com/asiaweek/asiacities/jakarta.html[/url]

The data sheet shows that average household income is very close to that of Manila.

Looking at the income figures, is it not likely that the Indonesians sign cruise ship contracts for the same reasons the Filipinos do?

[lknick]

[quote name='cactuslady']Rev--
Sounds like the chisels and pickaxes are starting to hurt from you being [B]quarried[/B] so much.)[/QUOTE]Ah ha...caught my misspelling...so much for spell checkers!

[RevNeal]

[QUOTE]...crew members (of both nationalities) make vastly more money at sea than do their neighbors who work locally --- and the reason they do it is because they believe it's the choice that is best for them and their family.

&

Looking at the income figures, is it not likely that the Indonesians sign cruise ship contracts for the same reasons the Filipinos do?[/QUOTE]

Absolutely correct. From my conversations with Indonesians who work on HAL ships this is exactly right.

[The_Hall_Monitor]

[quote name='revneal']
Please know that I was not, in any way, addressing anything in your post other than the statement regarding the nationality of cruisestaff personnel. [/QUOTE]

No offense taken. :) Neither was my response (which was being prepared when you posted) an effort to make you the quarry. ;)

(Don'cha love wordplay?)

[RevNeal]

[QUOTE]No offense taken.:) Neither was my response (which was being prepared when you posted) an effort to make you the quarry. ;)

(Don'cha love wordplay?)[/QUOTE]

LOL ... yes, indeed.
And thank you very much. :)

[Keith B.]

A lot of people are of the opinion that adding tips to the cruise price will solve the problem. Unless ALL cruise lines go this route there would be a big price difference (the 7 day cruise would go up $70 for the line that installed this policy). y's inside cabin is $659 and x's inside cabin is $729. For the cost concerned, unknowledgeble cruiser this would appear to be the no brainer of a choose, misquided as it may be.

Just a thought.

We truly enjoy handing the envelope with the appropriate tip to the service provider with a strong handshake and a hardy thank you at the end of a cruise.
Additionally, We tip our waiter and room steward $10 each and the asst. waiter $5 the first or second day of the cruise and ensure them that the is more at the end of the cruise. Given what I'm paying for the cruise, etc. what's another $25-50 for good service?

[dakrewser]

[quote name='lknick']Rev, your post was unkind as in my mind it only serves to put down the poster. And in what way did your factual correction change the point?[/QUOTE]

Because its very hard for Indonesians to come from Manilla? Correcting basic facts is in no way a "put down", but does help those reading the thread who might not know where the dining room staff comes from....

[dakrewser]

[quote name='Keith B.']Additionally, We tip our waiter and room steward $10 each and the asst. waiter $5 the first or second day of the cruise and ensure them that the is more at the end of the cruise. [/QUOTE]

That's not a tip, its a bribe....:confused:

[cactuslady]

[quote name='dakrewser']That's not a tip, its a bribe....:confused:[/QUOTE]


Hope my DH doesn't mind me telling this story . . .

Back when we were both single, and DH was on his first cruise, he handed the maitre d' $50 and asked to be seated with single women. The maitre d' did absolutely nothing except take the money and say "You're taken care of." When DH showed up at dinner and was seated with a family, a newlywed couple and a single gentlemen :( , he was just starting to get steamed . . . when I sat down. I was a bit late because I had been initially seated at the wrong table. All was made well only a year later when we were both seated at the Captain's table on our honeymoon cruise. :D

[dakrewser]

[quote name='cactuslady']Back when we were both single, and DH was on his first cruise, he handed the maitre d' $50 and asked to be seated with single women. The maitre d' did absolutely nothing except take the money and say "You're taken care of." When DH showed up at dinner and was seated with a family, a newlywed couple and a single gentlemen :( , he was just starting to get steamed . . . when I sat down. I was a bit late because I had been initially seated at the wrong table. All was made well only a year later when we were both seated at the Captain's table on our honeymoon cruise. :D[/QUOTE]I hope he suitably rewarded the Maitre d' at the end of the cruise. Being a gentleman, I won't ask how much [i]you[/i] bribed, er, tipped the maitre d'! :rolleyes:

[RevNeal]

[QUOTE]Back when we were both single, and DH was on his first cruise, he handed the maitre d' $50 and asked to be seated with single women. The maitre d' did absolutely nothing except take the money and say "You're taken care of." When DH showed up at dinner and was seated with a family, a newlywed couple and a single gentlemen , he was just starting to get steamed . . . when I sat down. I was a bit late because I had been initially seated at the wrong table. All was made well only a year later when we were both seated at the Captain's table on our honeymoon cruise.[/QUOTE]

What a great story! HAL could use it as a marketing ploy! Come on a HAL cruise and meet the love of your life! :D

[cactuslady]

dakrewser --
I didn't think to do it, but did have several moments of consternation when I discovered that almost all of those good-looking men on board were with the Washington D.C. Gay Men's Chorus group. :rolleyes:

[jhannah]

What a great story! HAL could use it as a marketing ploy! Come on a HAL cruise and meet the love of your life! :D

But that would require HAL to get Captain Steubing, Vickie, Gopher, et. al. to defect from Princess and start The Love Boat Returns on HAL vessels. Hey! That's not a bad idea!!! :D

[lknick]

That's not a tip, its a bribe....:confused:

And what's wrong with a bribe?

[lknick]

Because its very hard for Indonesians to come from Manilla? Correcting basic facts is in no way a "put down", but does help those reading the thread who might not know where the dining room staff comes from....

Again, how did this fact change the conclusion?

[dakrewser]

Again, how did this fact change the conclusion?

Because Indonesia has a higher standard of living than the Phillipines, at least according to the Indonesians I know.

[dakrewser]

And what's wrong with a bribe?

Nothing as long as you don't mind being identified with "The Ugly American"