Can you handle another tipping thread? What I saw.

[The_Hall_Monitor]

Because its very hard for Indonesians to come from Manilla? Correcting basic facts is in no way a "put down", but does help those reading the thread who might not know where the dining room staff comes from....

With apologies to Robert Preston, Meredith Wilson and everyone ever associated with the Music Man...

 

~~{Refrain}~~~

 

Pick a little, talk a little, parse a little, talk a little

Farewell ladies

Cheep cheep cheep, talk a lot, parse a little more

Pick a little, talk a little, parse a little, talk a little

Farewell ladies

Cheep cheep cheep, talk a lot, parse a little more

Pick a little, talk a little, pick a little, talk a little

Farewell ladies

Cheep cheep cheep, talk a lot, parse a little more

Pick a little, talk a little, parse a little, talk a little

We're going to leave you now

 

{Sotto voce}

 

Pick a little, talk a little, parse a little, talk a little

Cheep cheep cheep cheep cheep cheep cheep cheep

Cheep cheep cheep cheep cheep cheep cheep cheep

Cheep cheep cheep cheep cheep cheep cheep cheep

Pick a little, talk a little, Cheep!

 

<Exit Stage Left>

[lknick]

Because Indonesia has a higher standard of living than the Phillipines, at least according to the Indonesians I know.

Look at the links provided in both posts by Hall Monitor, and lo and behold, you will find it's the other way around.

 

The only value in information is to reach a conclusion. Even if you're correct, how does it change the conclusion that staff sign on since they can earn more with HAL than at home? I'd say it does not.

[lknick]

Nothing as long as you don't mind being identified with "The Ugly American"

The Ugly American thinks his way is the only way and rejects everyone's else’s culture, finding something to sneer about.

The Ugly American puts labels on everything.

The Ugly American only speaks one language.

The Ugly American treats others as if they're ignorant just because they do not or chose not to speak English.

 

As I once posted on the old board, the best compliment I received in Venice was "You can't be an American. You speak Italian and laugh too much."

 

As they say in Buenos Aires "taking care of details [presenting an acceptable incentive] is plain good business."

 

In Japan, gift giving before discussions is mandatory. There is a complete protocol for this.

 

So where does this idea that "taking care of details" is somehow dishonorable and makes one an Ugly American come from?

[RevNeal]

With apologies to Robert Preston, Meredith Wilson and everyone ever associated with the Music Man...

 

Don't apologize ... I thought that was very funny. It could well be the theme song for our board!!!!!! :D

 

EXCELLENT.

[RevNeal]

The only value in information is to reach a conclusion. Even if you're correct, how does it change the conclusion that staff sign on since they can earn more with HAL than at home? I'd say it does not.

 

It doesn't change the conclusion. Indeed, my pointing this out simply amplified and established the conclusion even more. Which is just ONE of the reasons why I do not understand why you jumped all over my behind for simply pointing out that not all of HAL's cruisestaff come from the Philippines. :confused: WHY did you assume that I was implying or intending something more than a simple, minor, correction?

[jhannah]

So where does this idea that "taking care of details" is somehow dishonorable ...?

It isn't. And this is exactly what Revneal was doing when he pointed out the differences in the nationalities of the crew -- taking care of details.

You can't have it both ways, lknick.

[lknick]

And this is exactly what Revneal was doing when he pointed out the differences in the nationalities of the crew -- taking care of details. You can't have it both ways, lknick.

The expression is ‘Compartir sangre', which I translated as ‘taking care of details’ to avoid misunderstanding. Literally, it means ‘sharing blood.’

 

Now, you’ve stepped way out of character just to make your point, which I believe to be invalid. We all know parsing helps in court, but it is not considered righteous. My post had to do with bribes being somehow ‘Ugly American’.

 

I took Rev's comment to be similar to an American next to me in Florence before the statue of David who said, "my, his thing is so small." It had nothing to do with the majesty of the work and only served to detract from it.

[RevNeal]

I took Rev's comment to be similar to an American next to me in Florence before the statue of David who said, "my, his thing is so small." It had nothing to do with the majesty of the work and only served to detract from it.

 

Put a sock in it, lknick. The_Hall_Monitor recognized that I wasn't putting her down or trying to discredit her post. You took my remark entirely WRONG, adding content which manifestly was NOT there, and now you're just adding insult to injury with this ridiculous analogy. Stop it.

 

Also, please stop talking about me as if I'm not posting right here; I do NOT appreciate it. I'm a very patient fellow, but enough is enough.

[dakrewser]

The expression is ‘Compartir sangre', which I translated as ‘taking care of details’ to avoid misunderstanding. Literally, it means ‘sharing blood.’

Hey, you're wonderful, we should all take lessons. You even speak Italian!

 

Still, in my ethical system, bribery is wrong. And the attitude that paying a big enough bribe gets you an advantage is the essence of "ugly Americanism."

 

But I don't expect to change your attitude, so I'll just bow out of this discussion.

[fsdj1097]

Is it ok to give your steward and waiter and the other staff who took care of you a thank you card with the tip inside the card? We did that on our first cruise on the Maasdam...I brought along some nice cards and wrote a little note thanking them personally and added cash to the envelopes, then handed them to each and every person that helped us have an wonderful time. (Even the yum-yum guy!)

 

So I shouldn't do this anymore? I really enjoyed letting each person know how much I appreciated the excellent service they gave us.

 

Melody

Yes, you can still tip those who have given you excellent service.

 

But, here's the catch, if you remove the automatic tip on your shipboard account, the crewmember must turn the tip in to be pooled with other crewmembers.

 

If you leave the automatic tip on your account, the crewmember is allowed to keep the tip.

[trubey]

Quote:

...crew members (of both nationalities) make vastly more money at sea than do their neighbors who work locally --- and the reason they do it is because they believe it's the choice that is best for them and their family.

 

&

 

Looking at the income figures, is it not likely that the Indonesians sign cruise ship contracts for the same reasons the Filipinos do?

 

 

Absolutely correct. From my conversations with Indonesians who work on HAL ships this is exactly right.

 

End Quote

__________________

 

According to the World Bank, here are the 2003 figures:

 

Annual Per Capita Earnings:

U.S. $37610

Philippines: $1080

Indonesia: $810

 

Relative Purchasing Power (local costs vs. salaries):

U.S. $37500

Philippines $4640

Indonesia: $3210

 

Lane

[lknick]

Rev...will be glad to 'put a sock in it.' I simply misconstued your intent as I took it as a 'gotcha' type statement.

 

Previously, on a thread about dress, a poster accused you of being rude. You asked the poster to explain in what way you were rude. The poster never did reply. Now, when I tell you of my thinking...right, wrong, or indifferent...you become annoyed.

 

I personally hate it when we have 'hit and run' posts where someone makes an inflammatory statement and does not allow us to know why they reacted that way or explain their thinking. I may be right or wrong, but I will justify what I post. And that was my thinking.

[lknick]

Still, in my ethical system, bribery is wrong. And the attitude that paying a big enough bribe gets you an advantage is the essence of "ugly Americanism."

 

But I don't expect to change your attitude, so I'll just bow out of this discussion.

I notice you stay with the word 'bribery'...a word full of evaluative connotations.

 

This has nothing to do with my personal attitude. Customs around the world differ, and the American way is not necessarily the best.

 

The essence of the Ugly American is as I outlined...'the American way is per se the best and there must be something deficient with you if you don't understand that.' Well, it just ain't so.

 

A number of years ago, while having a drink on the shores of Lake Geneva, an American next to me received his change in Swiss Francs. His comment was 'what is this in real money. At that time, the Swiss franc was backed by gold. Now that's the Ugly America!

 

As a writer, I would have presumed you would understand these nuances. [btw, I would be interested in your genre]

[RevNeal]

Previously, on a thread about dress, a poster accused you of being rude. You asked the poster to explain in what way you were rude. The poster never did reply. Now, when I tell you of my thinking...right, wrong, or indifferent...you become annoyed.

 

I personally hate it when we have 'hit and run' posts where someone makes an inflammatory statement and does not allow us to know why they reacted that way or explain their thinking. I may be right or wrong, but I will justify what I post. And that was my thinking.

 

THANK YOU, lknick. I appreciate you responding. As you note, someone DID accuse me of being rude in a prior thread about dress. When I questioned that person (a couple of times) about what it was that I had done that was rude, that person never did reply with an example. That was annoying but, to be blunt, I didn't really care what that other person thought because I hadn't had any prior interaction with them. This situation, on the other had, was worse because I've actually interacted with you on this board for well over a year, and had come to respect your opinion even when I disagreed.

 

Again, thank you for responding.

[cindiedee]

Just putting my two cents worth in, but on some HAL ships we have been told by the waitstaff, cabin stewards, etc that they only get a VERY small portion of the "voluntary" tip which is added to your final bill (if anything). If you leave the $10pp pd on the bill, they say they don't see any of it. So, we are the opposite of some of these posters, we do have the tip removed from our bill but I PROMISE that we do tip - we just put the $ in a small envelope with a note of thanks and put it right in the stewards, waitstaff's hands. And even though there is a 15% surcharge for "service" on the bar bills, we find that we always have a favorite bar/lounge on each ship - and going each night ensures that the staff knows you and your tastes - we also tip these wonderful people as they say they don't get any of the 15% surcharge. Don't know if this is all true or not but have heard the same thing over and over again on different ships - and I just feel better knowing that they people who made our trip SO enjoyable, were tipped and it doesn't go to anyone else.

[dakrewser]

Just putting my two cents worth in, but on some HAL ships we have been told by the waitstaff, cabin stewards, etc that they only get a VERY small portion of the "voluntary" tip which is added to your final bill (if anything). If you leave the $10pp pd on the bill, they say they don't see any of it. So, we are the opposite of some of these posters, we do have the tip removed from our bill but I PROMISE that we do tip - we just put the $ in a small envelope with a note of thanks and put it right in the stewards, waitstaff's hands. And even though there is a 15% surcharge for "service" on the bar bills, we find that we always have a favorite bar/lounge on each ship - and going each night ensures that the staff knows you and your tastes - we also tip these wonderful people as they say they don't get any of the 15% surcharge. Don't know if this is all true or not but have heard the same thing over and over again on different ships - and I just feel better knowing that they people who made our trip SO enjoyable, were tipped and it doesn't go to anyone else.

Don't know who's been giving you an earful, but a) the $10/day is split among those who serve you and b) if you remove it and tip individually, they can't keep the money but must pool it. And the 15% on the bar tab goes into the tip pool also. This isn't just my imagination, either, as most of those posting here will agree.

[vjb223]

Even if you leave the $10 pp per day charge on , they still have to turn in any extra $ to the pool. I wish that was not the case but they still have to share whatever extra you give them.

[peaches from georgia]

-cindiedee- If you remove the $10pp/day auto tip and tip on your own, your stewards DO have to pool what you gave them, so they are receiving a lot less than what you think you tipped them. :(

 

-vjb223- If you leave the $10pp/day on your account and tip extra directly to your stewards, they DO NOT have to pool the extra tip $$$ that you gave them. :D

[elmorejj]

cindiedee, someone has been pulling the wool over your eyes! They DO get a % of the $10pppd, the bar servers DO get most of the 15% added to bar bills. I think they have been playing on your sympathies trying to hustle extra tips out of you. They are in a union and wouldn`t have voted for the new policy if they didn`t think it would be better for them.....jean :cool:

[FlorenceItaly]

I DO believe they get the 15% because in June and last week the drinks were pushed heavily, IMO.

 

Marie

[jhannah]

-cindiedee- If you remove the $10pp/day auto tip and tip on your own, your stewards DO have to pool what you gave them, so they are receiving a lot less than what you think you tipped them. :(

 

-vjb223- If you leave the $10pp/day on your account and tip extra directly to your stewards, they DO NOT have to pool the extra tip $$$ that you gave them. :D

This is the way it is. It is very clearly spelled out in a letter that comes with the cruise documents. Elmorejj is correct, IMO, that some staff have played (shilled) to your sympathies in order to get more tips. I don't believe this is ethical on the stewards part.

[divinggirl]

Interesting that this came up. Last week on the Zuiderdam my sister was told by Pablo, a asst. bartender that they do pool all their "extra" tips, not that they HAD to, but the staff had all agreed to do so. I'm not sure if this was a load of BS or the truth, but you have to think that that requires a great deal of honesty on the part of the crew. I know I tipped Eduardo (among others) at the sports bar extra and thanked him for his excellent service. If he wants to go and pool that $, he can, I guess, but he doesn't have to.

[dakrewser]

Even if you leave the $10 pp per day charge on , they still have to turn in any extra $ to the pool. I wish that was not the case but they still have to share whatever extra you give them.

I think you're confusing two different policies. If you tip an individual before the end of the cruise, that money is supposed to be placed in an escrow account. If you remove the $10/day auto-tip then the escrow is divvied up amongst all the crew. If you do not remove it, then the escrowed money is returned to the person you gave it to.

[RuthC]

Interesting that this came up. Last week on the Zuiderdam my sister was told by Pablo, a asst. bartender that they do pool all their "extra" tips, not that they HAD to, but the staff had all agreed to do so. I'm not sure if this was a load of BS or the truth, but you have to think that that requires a great deal of honesty on the part of the crew. I know I tipped Eduardo (among others) at the sports bar extra and thanked him for his excellent service. If he wants to go and pool that $, he can, I guess, but he doesn't have to.

divinggirl, this is simply a continuation of prior practice. Before the mandatory $10 service charge and 15% added to drinks many lounge stewards had an informal coverage arrangement. They knew each other's customers and kept an eye out to make sure that everyone was promptly served additional drinks, munchies, etc. Then they split any tips.

 

All in all a good system.

[divinggirl]

RuthC-

 

 

Thank you for the clarification, that makes sense!! Since this past cruise was the first time I sailed HAL, I have to say that the service was second to none and those employees work very hard for their $ and to please all pax. IMHO, $10 pppd is too little, but is probably what the market will stand. All my guys got a little extra, and it felt good to do it!!:D