Reporting and disciplining unethical TA

[takeavacation]

I am beginning to see that the TA mindset is to maximize profit even if it means failing to inform the client of matters germane to the client's interests.

 

Please stop lumping all TAs together -- we aren't all out to shortchange our clients. I for one work very hard to get the best deal for my clients -- including giving up most of my commission on many occassions! In your situation, I would have offered either the upgrade or the discounted fare -and done whichever my client preferred -- even though the discounted fare would eat into my commission amount.

 

I totally understand how your situation happened -- you had already booked the more expensive cabin directly with RCL- so when your TA re-booked you, she assumed that wasthe category you wanted. You never indicated if you cancelled your cabin that you booked directly with RCL -- if not -- that could cost you a lot more than you are expecting to pay for the cruise.

 

Good Luck!

[Jade13]

Please stop lumping all TAs together -- we aren't all out to shortchange our clients. I for one work very hard to get the best deal for my clients -- including giving up most of my commission on many occassions! In your situation, I would have offered either the upgrade or the discounted fare -and done whichever my client preferred -- even though the discounted fare would eat into my commission amount.

 

I totally understand how your situation happened -- you had already booked the more expensive cabin directly with RCL- so when your TA re-booked you, she assumed that wasthe category you wanted. You never indicated if you cancelled your cabin that you booked directly with RCL -- if not -- that could cost you a lot more than you are expecting to pay for the cruise.

 

Good Luck!

 

I think the issue is that the OP tried to get the price dropped multiple times. Most of us would do the same especially IF the price was the one being offered by the cruise line and IF there was nothing stating that the price or OBC was for "new bookings only". I think with most lines this can only be done before final payment. I would think that a senior rate would have been requested in the beginning if the cruise line offered them. The last try was to match a competitors price. If that price was from an on-line consolidator the OP's TA may not have been able to match it without loosing almost all of their commission. Correct me if I am wrong but don't top produing TA's get the cabins for a lower cost in which case they can pass on the savings to their client?

 

I am just guessing that the last try could have been from a consolidator. There are a number that advertise on CC, some are internet only with no phone number. Most TA's can not match these prices. Btw, if the OP did email/leave messages with the TA multiple times with no response than the OP was not getting what he/she considered good service. The TA should have confronted the situation. It would have been better if the TA was more direct and just said "I cannot match that last price you forwarded because..."

[seawyllow]

It sounds not only harsh, but presumptuous because you are judging me without knowing the facts. Are you a TA? In any case because you are ignorant of the facts, let me help you out by filling you in and then you tell me what you think.

 

You want to know why I was lulled into thinking I may have received a special deal. It all started out was because I was trying to save my agent's commission, shnook that I was.

As of Aug 1, I had the booking with my TA. On Aug 2, I received an email offering directly from RCL for a better deal. I booked it (an upgrade at a slightly higher price) with the expectation that I could transfer the new booking to my TA - a common occurrence when booking directly with the line.

When my TA and I tried to transfer the RCL booking RCL refused to allow it because there was an undisclosed sales agent tied to the email offer. When I learned that in order to get the better deal I would have to cut my original TA out and deal with another I called Customer Service of RCL and ultimately spoke with a supervisor. I complained that RCL had put both me and my agent in an uncomfortable position by virtue of RCL's failure to disclose the restrictions on transferability of the better RCL offer. That same day, PURSUANT TO HER REQUEST I wrote to the RCL supervisor a confirming email detailing me and my TA's predictament and suggesting that RCL should make full disclosure in all their "direct" email offerings. A day later my TA emailed me a new invoice with the upgrade at a price slightly better than the RCL offer. No explanation accompanied this new invoice.

I wrote to both my TA and the RCL supervisor thanking them profusely and inquiring about the upgrade. Neither answered my inquiry. Both stonewalled and allowed me to suffer from the not unreasonable asumption that owing to my suggestion/complaint to the RCL customer service supervisor I was taken care of. Was that unreasonable? Maybe. Was it arrogant? What do you think now?

A couple of weeks later I learned RCL was giving senior discounts on this particular cruise. I wrote my TA and asked if I, a senior, qualified for the discount. She did not respond to my email so I called. She told me that the discount had already been applied to my booking ( price did not change from the earlier invoice) . It did not occur to me at that point in time to ask how that could be. More arrogance on my part?

Two weeks later I saw a competitor's ad for the same category cabin offering a senior discount price of $600 less than my price ( 200 pp + a 200 shipboard credit). Now my curiousity was peaked. I wrote to my TA asking about it. Again, she refused to directly answer my question and simply sent a new invoice for $400 less. I then wrote inquiring about the entire situation. She stonewalled until the time to cancel without penalty elapsed. For 2 or 3 days I could have booked with the competitor and saved $200 ( shipboard credit) , but was still willing to hear an explanation from my TA. I was reluctant to deprive her of her commission.

I wrote her again, and again, and no explanation was forthcoming.

So I wound up paying $200 more than I had to just to remain loyal a second time only to find out I was deceived. Moreover, RCL just told me that a senior discount was only applied to my booking with that recent $400 reduction I brought to my TA's attention.

It may come as no surprise that I am a lawyer, a profession as much maligned as any, but we are trained to make full disclosure to our clients. To put their interests ahead of our own. We have a duty to disclose all facts which affect the client's interests. There is a duty to speak out to prevent the client suffering from any misconceptions. That is my mindset. I am beginning to see that the TA mindset is to maximize profit even if it means failing to inform the client of matters germane to the client's interests.

 

It seems to me there were a few problems with this booking. I am a TA and I would also appreciate your not lumping all of us together.

 

When you received the offer from Royal, you unknowingly cut out your TA by booking directly with them. All you had to do was call your TA and tell her about it and she would have called RCCL and gotten you the upgrade at the same price. I have never heard of an "undisclosed sales agent" through Royal. That almost sounds like a different TA trying to get business. I could be wrong, but that is a new one to me. Is the booking number the same as you originally got through your TA, or is it the new one from the direct booking? It almost sounds like Royal cancelled the second booking and just adjusted the price on the first. You received a new invoice from the TA with no explanation, did not pursue the TA more than once with an email (I would not have allowed it to go any further at this point), but paid the difference?

 

Then you mention a seniors discount and if it was applied to your booking. Most of the time, we are not allowed to combine specials like that. The competitor was probably a large company who bought out cabins and got a reduced price to begin with, and added an OBC to boot. Your TA was able to match the lower price, but could not get the OBC. The competitor could have also been advertising a new promo from the cruise line with either special reductions for seniors, or a residency promo, which you may have fallen into. Clients in Cleveland do not get the same discounts as clients in Florida.

 

As a lawyer, your profession differs considerably from ours. I do not excuse the way you had no communication from your TA, that was wrong. When you brought to the TA's attention the price difference, she should have contacted RCCL and gotten the difference, especially when it is with a competitor. You may not also realize that many of the large on line travel agencies get a bigger commission split than do the smaller ones. They have the ability to knock off 10-12% and still make 4% and overides and bonus commission. Does your TA work for one of the large on line agencies, or a small one? That could also explain the difference in the original pricing. With the senior discount, she may have applied what was the discount then, but RCCL matched the price when she called in with the competitors price.

 

As far as complaining and having her 1- fired, 2- reprimanded, 3- what you think is just, I can only tell you that to go to her supervisor is the best recourse. There is no uniform code in the US for TA's, it is a state by state matter. Only a couple of states require sellers of travel registration and insurance. CLIA is a marketing strategy for the Cruise Lines, nothing more. They recognize legitimate sellers of travel and code them as such.

 

As a TA, I put my client first. There are plenty of times when I have taken the cut in commssion to retain client loyalty. In this day and age of the internet, cost is king and the smaller agency has to depend on giving service as they might not be able to offer the best price. It is like Walmart versus the local hardware store. You know you will get it cheaper at Walmart, but you will not get the expertise and advice you would at the local place that has been around for 30 years. My clients know that they can reach me at 4AM, Christmas Day, when I am on vacation, etc., because that is the service I provide. It sounds like you met an either 1- overworked, 2- sloppy, or 3- lazy TA.

 

For those of you shopping around, when you see a good price, don't go and book and try to switch it over, just call your TA and ask for them to get the price matched. Tell them who is offering the better deal so they can verify it and have it for ammo when they call the cruise line.

 

Sorry to jump in here, just my 2 cents.

[owl61]

Thank you for taking the time to read through some of my postings. You appear not to have read them all (that is understandable given the detail I have been asked to go into). Either that or I haven't made myself clear.

Not all TAs engage in sharp practices and I have no doubt you are both honest and hardworking, but I have not read any TA replies here, yours included, that condemn this conduct as it should be condemned by any fair minded business person. Frankly, I am beginning to think the fierce competition fostered by the internet has created a lot more bad apples in your profession than you might like to admit.

To set you straight further because you make incorrect assumptions...

1. I put a reservation hold on the RCL email offer because I didn't want to lose it and I was granted 7 days to fund the reservation with no obligation. As it was not funded it is inconceivable that I cancelled my original TA booking. She had given me the lowest price at the time I found her on one those cruise price competition type websites. I had no reason to doubt her competence and no desire to make her to spin her wheels for no commission.

I am a US citizen with a residence in So America. Apparently the RCL offer was limited to So Americans residents or some such thing - it was never mentioned in the offer nor was the requirement to book with a So American agent disclosed. My TA is in No America. You may be unfamiliar with this type of marketing.

2. In hindsight I should have insisted on an explanation for the price reduction from my agent, but when both she and RCL failed to offer any explanation after I had written, can you understand that in view of the circumstances I assumed I was the beneficiary of some RCL largesse. I figured the RCL Supv agreed I had a valid point re non-disclosure.

3. If you are a CC aficianado and read the roll calls and/or receive as many cruise advertsing emails as I do you, it is easy to keep abreast of discounts on one's cruise. I also occasionally take a look at the websites of major on line TAs to track prices. I am currently booked on 4 cruises. I do not recall how I learned of the senior discount offered by RCL on this particular cruise. When I learned of it, I inquired of my TA. She said it had been applied. RCL gave me contrary info. Some sort of across the board discount had been applied to my booking at the time I wrote to RCL, but apparently not a senior discount...according to the RCL Supv.

4. RCL apparently allows all discounts to all bookings unless otherwise stated. In mid Sept., I saw a competitor's website advertising a senior (55+) discount that amounted to $600 and which put its price about $600 better than my price. When I brought the competitor's $600 lower price ( that is about 20% of the total cruise price - not a small amount) to my TA's attention she was apparently able to obtain it and applied the non-shipboard credit part to my booking. I say apparently because it is difficult to know exactly how she managed things as she steadfastly refuses to inform me.

5. As I previously stated, I dealt with the owner of the agency. There is no one within the company to speak to about this with the possible exception of her husband and he has proved himself to be an airhead.

6. My TA knew I was interested in booking an upgrade. SO WHAT?!! For the last time ( hooray) I will insist that ethics required her to inform me of a general price reduction and to consult with me on how I wanted to handle it. It was wrong to hide the RCL price reduction from me. Her susbequent cover up about preexisting application of the senior discount only made matters worse. I am not out much money - maybe a $200 shipboard credit (which I am getting back by virtue of the RCL shareholder benefit program). It is not a question of money. It is a question of being deceived.

For any who wish to comment further, please try reading the postings first so you can avoid redundancies. That's only fair to your fellow CCs.

[takeavacation]

Thank you for taking the time to read through some of my postings. You appear not to have read them all (that is understandable given the detail I have been asked to go into). Either that or I haven't made myself clear.

Not all TAs engage in sharp practices and I have no doubt you are both honest and hardworking, but I have not read any TA replies here, yours included, that condemn this conduct as it should be condemned by any fair minded business person. Frankly, I am beginning to think the fierce competition fostered by the internet has created a lot more bad apples in your profession than you might like to admit.

To set you straight further because you make incorrect assumptions...

1. I put a reservation hold on the RCL email offer because I didn't want to lose it and I was granted 7 days to fund the reservation with no obligation. As it was not funded it is inconceivable that I cancelled my original TA booking. She had given me the lowest price at the time I found her on one those cruise price competition type websites. I had no reason to doubt her competence and no desire to make her to spin her wheels for no commission.

I am a US citizen with a residence in So America. Apparently the RCL offer was limited to So Americans residents or some such thing - it was never mentioned in the offer nor was the requirement to book with a So American agent disclosed. My TA is in No America. You may be unfamiliar with this type of marketing.

2. In hindsight I should have insisted on an explanation for the price reduction from my agent, but when both she and RCL failed to offer any explanation after I had written, can you understand that in view of the circumstances I assumed I was the beneficiary of some RCL largesse. I figured the RCL Supv agreed I had a valid point re non-disclosure.

3. If you are a CC aficianado and read the roll calls and/or receive as many cruise advertsing emails as I do you, it is easy to keep abreast of discounts on one's cruise. I also occasionally take a look at the websites of major on line TAs to track prices. I am currently booked on 4 cruises. I do not recall how I learned of the senior discount offered by RCL on this particular cruise. When I learned of it, I inquired of my TA. She said it had been applied. RCL gave me contrary info. Some sort of across the board discount had been applied to my booking at the time I wrote to RCL, but apparently not a senior discount...according to the RCL Supv.

4. RCL apparently allows all discounts to all bookings unless otherwise stated. In mid Sept., I saw a competitor's website advertising a senior (55+) discount that amounted to $600 and which put its price about $600 better than my price. When I brought the competitor's $600 lower price ( that is about 20% of the total cruise price - not a small amount) to my TA's attention she was apparently able to obtain it and applied the non-shipboard credit part to my booking. I say apparently because it is difficult to know exactly how she managed things as she steadfastly refuses to inform me.

5. As I previously stated, I dealt with the owner of the agency. There is no one within the company to speak to about this with the possible exception of her husband and he has proved himself to be an airhead.

6. My TA knew I was interested in booking an upgrade. SO WHAT?!! For the last time ( hooray) I will insist that ethics required her to inform me of a general price reduction and to consult with me on how I wanted to handle it. It was wrong to hide the RCL price reduction from me. Her susbequent cover up about preexisting application of the senior discount only made matters worse. I am not out much money - maybe a $200 shipboard credit (which I am getting back by virtue of the RCL shareholder benefit program). It is not a question of money. It is a question of being deceived.

For any who wish to comment further, please try reading the postings first so you can avoid redundancies. That's only fair to your fellow CCs.

 

I have read EVERY one of your posts -- and I will clarify what I believe you do not understand:

 

1) I have seen these types of promotions/marketing - and the booking must be made thru a specific travel agency -- even if you book directly with RCL, the booking is going thru a set agency. If you didn't actually pay for the reservation you made directly - then I say...let that argument go -- it's just adding to the confusion.

 

2) I agree with you -- you should have asked for a better explantion of the new pricing. Better yet -- your TA should have given it to you without asking. However - we can't go back in time and change what happened -- so, write this one down as a learned lesson and move on.

 

3) RCL does not allow TA's (or individuals - as far as I know) to "double dip" into the discount pool -- so, if your TA applied an "across the board" discount -- you would not be eligible for the senior discount also. Usually the discounts -- whether senior or resident or past guest -- are all the same amount --- so, this shouldn't effect the bottom line of your cruise fare.

 

4) RCL does allow you to get the discount after final payment has been made as long as the discount isn't for "new bookings only" -- which is something RCL determines -- not the TA. If your TA was able to apply the discount to your booking -after you told her about the competitor's pricing -- that is great news for you -- bad news for the TA -- but, she did put you 1st and not her commission!

 

5) I must have missed where you spoke with the owner -- sorry - my bad.

 

6)I have yet to disagree with the fact that your TA should have asked you if you would prefer the upgrade or the discount -- she should have done so. However - I can understand her thinking because you had booked the upgrade with the cruise line directly. I'm not saying that I think she did the right thing -- but, I can understand it.

 

I do hope that you have a wonderful cruise -- and that you get the very best pricing for your future travels.

[Jade13]

4) RCL does allow you to get the discount after final payment has been made as long as the discount isn't for "new bookings only" -- which is something RCL determines -- not the TA. If your TA was able to apply the discount to your booking -after you told her about the competitor's pricing -- that is great news for you -- bad news for the TA -- but, she did put you 1st and not her commission!

.

 

Takeavacation - I have a general question for you? Is it considered a "New Booking" if someone had booked directly with the cruiseline and then went to transfer it to an outside TA when they see a special promotion, usually with OBC that says "New Bookings Only"? I know this will probably differ with different cruiselines but what do you know about Celebrity, HAL and Princess?

[helen haywood]

To takeavacation, let me say, I know most TAs do not keep the money until the final payment is due. I've never had a TA do such. However, in regard to the difference in price between what I paid the TA and what RCI was paid....there obviously was some discount there.... I have the credit card statements showing what I paid to the TA (which was what RCI was charging also). But when the second charge appeared and I called RCI and the other charges were explained re my cruise....I can tell you exactly the numbers that RCI said had been paid for my cruise from my TA....and RCI said my cruise was paid in full.....and that amount was much less than what I paid the TA. Again, I'm not saying I have any problem with this deal. I got a good deal from the TA (again with the caveat that I'm assuming I'll get my money back from the second billing..) But please understand that what I'm saying is that RCI accepted an amount from my TA for my cruise that was less than what they were selling it for. Again...I don't have a problem with this!! I just don't understand what you are telling me I don't understand about the practices of TAs.

[Moeve]

There is a catch here that the OP has only just mentioned - she said (if I understood correctly)her residency discount was for bookings for SOUTH American residence ONLY that made it difficult for the NORTH American Agent to book it anyway (that already required some sort of intervention from the cruiseline since THAT is not normally possible) Then she was trying to apply discounts for North American bookings too - now THAT certainly does not work!!! Discounts are bound to the Residency status. Same thing with europeans if you book in europe you are on their terms - if you book in the US same story there they are not combinable!!!

 

Over and above that RCCL is one of the cruiselines who have made it illegal to share commisions with clients to reduce prices - if caught they have been threatened with the exclusion from booking RCCL & X products.

[takeavacation]

Takeavacation - I have a general question for you? Is it considered a "New Booking" if someone had booked directly with the cruiseline and then went to transfer it to an outside TA when they see a special promotion, usually with OBC that says "New Bookings Only"? I know this will probably differ with different cruiselines but what do you know about Celebrity, HAL and Princess?

 

If you have a booking with the cruiseline directly and want to transfer your booking to a TA - -that is fine. However - if you are transferring to the TA because they are offering a special price and it specifically states "for new bookings only" -- then you won't be able to obtain the special price --- your booking isn't new -- just transferred.

 

Hope that helps.

[Jade13]

To takeavacation, let me say, I know most TAs do not keep the money until the final payment is due. I've never had a TA do such. However, in regard to the difference in price between what I paid the TA and what RCI was paid....there obviously was some discount there.... I have the credit card statements showing what I paid to the TA (which was what RCI was charging also). But when the second charge appeared and I called RCI and the other charges were explained re my cruise....I can tell you exactly the numbers that RCI said had been paid for my cruise from my TA....and RCI said my cruise was paid in full.....and that amount was much less than what I paid the TA. Again, I'm not saying I have any problem with this deal. I got a good deal from the TA (again with the caveat that I'm assuming I'll get my money back from the second billing..) But please understand that what I'm saying is that RCI accepted an amount from my TA for my cruise that was less than what they were selling it for. Again...I don't have a problem with this!! I just don't understand what you are telling me I don't understand about the practices of TAs.

 

I use TA's where my credit card is charged through the cruiseline (not the TA).

[Jade13]

If you have a booking with the cruiseline directly and want to transfer your booking to a TA - -that is fine. However - if you are transferring to the TA because they are offering a special price and it specifically states "for new bookings only" -- then you won't be able to obtain the special price --- your booking isn't new -- just transferred.

 

Hope that helps.

 

That is what I wanted to find out. Thanks!

[takeavacation]

To takeavacation, let me say, I know most TAs do not keep the money until the final payment is due. I've never had a TA do such. However, in regard to the difference in price between what I paid the TA and what RCI was paid....there obviously was some discount there.... I have the credit card statements showing what I paid to the TA (which was what RCI was charging also). But when the second charge appeared and I called RCI and the other charges were explained re my cruise....I can tell you exactly the numbers that RCI said had been paid for my cruise from my TA....and RCI said my cruise was paid in full.....and that amount was much less than what I paid the TA. Again, I'm not saying I have any problem with this deal. I got a good deal from the TA (again with the caveat that I'm assuming I'll get my money back from the second billing..) But please understand that what I'm saying is that RCI accepted an amount from my TA for my cruise that was less than what they were selling it for. Again...I don't have a problem with this!! I just don't understand what you are telling me I don't understand about the practices of TAs.

 

Sorry - didn't mean to upset or confuse -- just pointed out that I've never met an agent that kept the money until final payment was due -- when paid by credit card. My guess (and only a guess without seeing statements) - is when your final payment was due and paid, maybe the cruiseline had dropped their rates? If so - your TA owes you the refund (or the upgrade if desired).

 

I still don't understand how they kept your money if you paid by credit card (did the original charge show on your statement as to the agency or to the cruise line?) If it was to the agency then they used your money until it was actually due and then forgot that you had already paid for the cruise and charged directly to RCI for the final. That is certainly a problem -- and totally unacceptable!

 

I do hope that you get this all worked out and that you have a fabulous cruise!

 

ps - just re-read the above posts and realized that if you called RCI and asked how much they show receiving for the cruise and what you actually paid your TA - the amounts would be a couple of hundred different (depending on the price of the cruise) because this is the commission amount paid to the TA. Ex: if your cost is $3000 for 2 people and the commission is based on $2400 of that amount - it would be approx. $300 -- so, RCI would show that your cruise was $2700 and you would know that you paid $3000. Hope this helps.

[takeavacation]

That is what I wanted to find out. Thanks!

 

You are quite welcome -- have a great day!!:)

[Jeano222]

I think the OP has made it abundently clear that he/she would be much better off booking the cruise themselves and not involve a travel agent at all. Many people need TA's for guidance but OP sounds savvy enough to do it alone. TA's are not for everyone.

[takeavacation]

I think the OP has made it abundently clear that he/she would be much better off booking the cruise themselves and not involve a travel agent at all. Many people need TA's for guidance but OP sounds savvy enough to do it alone. TA's are not for everyone.

 

As a TA -- I totally thank you for pointing that out! Using a TA is certainly not for everyone --- we are here to help those that need it or want our expertise --- but, some people are much better on their own with total control over their bookings.

[Jade13]

I think the OP has made it abundently clear that he/she would be much better off booking the cruise themselves and not involve a travel agent at all. Many people need TA's for guidance but OP sounds savvy enough to do it alone. TA's are not for everyone.

 

I don't think that is the issue, but maybe I am wrong. With HAL, the internal TA's (which I have dealt with and are great) have made it very clear to me that they can not compete with large producing external TA's. For my cruise this past summer I was "forced" to transfer to a TA because the saving on the cabin was $1,500 PLUS I received $300 Onboard credit, PLUS a cocktail party (didn't care about that) PLUS a free excursion which included lunch (DH went on). I only found out about diff TA's through CC. I hoped for months that Hal's PCC could match (was trying to find some group to book me with) but could not. I did all the leg work myself (FFmiles for travel and booked hotel) before I transfered.

 

The OP wants the best possible price and needed to use an agency to get it. Some of these promotions are confusing. I received one this year that was for $500 OBC for a Verandah sateroom (directly through HAL). I booked onboard for next year and tried to get the HAL PCC to apply this, but was given all kinds of explanations why it could not be done because I has already received OBC (only a small amount under $100 and I already asumed I'd take the higher amount) and that amount would have to be subtracted, than my Mariner discount would have to be substracted plus the early booking discount and I would be paying more. I e-mailed a scanned copy of the promotion with numbers and said apparently their marketing department had made a mistake because the amount on the mailing was still less than what I was paying. The PCC never replyed to me. I may end up transfering to a TA who can give me a better price.

[helen haywood]

The initial deposit was paid directly to RCI from the statements of my credit card. The next day the remainder of the cruise price was paid and, again, from the statements of my credit card, the balance was paid to the TA. I have discussed this with my credit card company of course and they are recommending that I go ahead and take the cruise and file the complaint afterwards. And they are right...because as far as RCI is concerned, they told me they had only received the initial deposit and then the $4500. If I dispute the $4500 (which I know to be a duplicate charge) then I could be causing RCI to think my cruise is not paid for. I do not want to fly to Rome and be told I don't have a reservation! So I'll have to wait until I get back to try to sort this out....but I can't tell you what a black cloud this extra $4500 charge has laid over this 20th anniversary trip that I planned so long ago and spent so much money on!!)

[owl61]

Helen,

Sounds like you have registered your claim with your card issung bank, but be mindful that certain credit card claims must be lodged within certain timeframes or rights may be forfeited. Make sure your credit card issuing bank deems your claim as now made to eliminate possible dimunition of rights.

GreatAm,

oh special one...how is the arrogance quotient?

[takeavacation]

The initial deposit was paid directly to RCI from the statements of my credit card. The next day the remainder of the cruise price was paid and, again, from the statements of my credit card, the balance was paid to the TA. I have discussed this with my credit card company of course and they are recommending that I go ahead and take the cruise and file the complaint afterwards. And they are right...because as far as RCI is concerned, they told me they had only received the initial deposit and then the $4500. If I dispute the $4500 (which I know to be a duplicate charge) then I could be causing RCI to think my cruise is not paid for. I do not want to fly to Rome and be told I don't have a reservation! So I'll have to wait until I get back to try to sort this out....but I can't tell you what a black cloud this extra $4500 charge has laid over this 20th anniversary trip that I planned so long ago and spent so much money on!!)

 

Helen -- that sounds like you are hooked up with a bad TA -- I've never heard of ANY agent that pays the deposit to the cruise line and then "pre-pays" the balance - but to themselves and not the cruiseline. I do hope that you are able to get your refund -- it should come directly from the travel agency -- and it should be in cash! They have been using your money for long enough -- tell them you now want it returned! You shouldn't have to wait and dispute the charge with the credit card company.

 

However -- if you do have to dispute with the cc company -- tell them to dispute the charge with the TA (for the original $4500) not with RCL -- I agree that it may cause a problem with your reservation -- and that would be horrible to find out after arriving in Rome!

 

Good luck to you -- I hope that it all works out and that you have a fabulous trip!

[Jade13]

The initial deposit was paid directly to RCI from the statements of my credit card. The next day the remainder of the cruise price was paid and, again, from the statements of my credit card, the balance was paid to the TA. I have discussed this with my credit card company of course and they are recommending that I go ahead and take the cruise and file the complaint afterwards. And they are right...because as far as RCI is concerned, they told me they had only received the initial deposit and then the $4500. If I dispute the $4500 (which I know to be a duplicate charge) then I could be causing RCI to think my cruise is not paid for. I do not want to fly to Rome and be told I don't have a reservation! So I'll have to wait until I get back to try to sort this out....but I can't tell you what a black cloud this extra $4500 charge has laid over this 20th anniversary trip that I planned so long ago and spent so much money on!!)

 

$4,500 is a huge amount. I would write a letter directly to the cruise line and TA to sort out. I would never leave that kind of money on my credit card if it was double billed.

[helen haywood]

I understand what is being said...but the advice I have gotten from Visa and my financial advisor (who issued the Visa) is that 1) I can't "dispute" the $4500 until after giving the TA 30 days to refund the "mistake." 2) If I "dispute" the $4500 before I take the trip...and Visa notifies RCI that the FINAL PAYMENT for my cruise is in dispute...then my 20th anniversary cruise could be in jeopardy. Because from RCI's standpoint...they have only received my deposit back in March from the TA...and then nothing until the $4500 in September. They know nothing of the fact that I paid the TA IN FULL BACK IN MARCH because they were paid nothing at that time. I cannot take the risk that my cruise will fall through...especially when, not only is it my 20th anniversary...but I've paid for it TWICE!!! So, Visa's advice is to take the cruise, then file the complaint. This is on record with my financial advisor...with whom I discussed all the timing issues and doubts I had....

[seawyllow]

I understand what is being said...but the advice I have gotten from Visa and my financial advisor (who issued the Visa) is that 1) I can't "dispute" the $4500 until after giving the TA 30 days to refund the "mistake." 2) If I "dispute" the $4500 before I take the trip...and Visa notifies RCI that the FINAL PAYMENT for my cruise is in dispute...then my 20th anniversary cruise could be in jeopardy. Because from RCI's standpoint...they have only received my deposit back in March from the TA...and then nothing until the $4500 in September. They know nothing of the fact that I paid the TA IN FULL BACK IN MARCH because they were paid nothing at that time. I cannot take the risk that my cruise will fall through...especially when, not only is it my 20th anniversary...but I've paid for it TWICE!!! So, Visa's advice is to take the cruise, then file the complaint. This is on record with my financial advisor...with whom I discussed all the timing issues and doubts I had....

 

I agree with you that I would not dispute the charge with Royal as you could end up loosing your cabin. That being said, I would go after the agent for the full amount immediately. They have had your money since March, and since it is now over 90 days since you paid by cc, they cannot issue a refund that way, it has to be by check or cash. Tell the agent to issue the refund now, not 30 days from now, not 14 days from now, but NOW. I dont know of any TA who keeps the money for months like that. I put all payments by cc directly through the cruise line, as do all the other agencies I know. Tell them you also want all finance charges for the balance you have been carrying for them for their unsecured loan. What state is the TA in? Certain states have different laws that may give you more leverage than others, especially Florida and California. I am sure that they don't want to be reported to the attorney general in your or their state, since that is way over the amount for it to be a felony? (you would know this better since you are the lawyer), and the department of consumer affairs. Could this be construed as credit card fraud?

 

As much as I defend those in my business, the more I read about the billing aspect of your dilemma, the more I am upset by it. :eek: Let us know how you make out.

[helen haywood]

The "TA" is in Florida. When I contacted them upon discovering the double billing on September 24...they said it was a mistake and they would issue a refund. They said the refund would take 5-10 days to show up on my Visa. I haven't seen it yet (but still within the 5-10 day window...) and yesterday I emailed them to ask when the refund was issued. They said it had been issued on September 25th but that "depending on how fast banks talk to each other" it might take up to two weeks for the credit to appear. At this point I'm going to just search my Visa on-line daily to see if the credit appears, otherwise try to forget this "glitch" and pack for my trip....if when I get back the credit still never appeared then I'll put it in Visa's hands....and start writing letters etc. of complaint to RCI, the TA, and whoever else anyone can think of!

 

Thank you all for your support!!! My husband hasn't been much help as he is the eternal optimist and keeps saying he's sure everything will be fine....(easy to say when it's MY $4500...) and I don't want to talk too much about it to my friends....since hithertofore I was known as the smart, savy traveler....sigh.

[firefly333]

Helen,

Sounds like you have registered your claim with your card issung bank, but be mindful that certain credit card claims must be lodged within certain timeframes or rights may be forfeited. Make sure your credit card issuing bank deems your claim as now made to eliminate possible dimunition of rights.

GreatAm,

oh special one...how is the arrogance quotient?

 

Actually the laws are the same for all personal credit cards, do a google search for FAIR or FCBA laws if you need details. The longer you wait to dispute the charge the harder it becomes to dispute.

 

Some credit card companies after 30 or 60 days require the dispute in writing. After 180 days if the merchant has not been contacted by the credit card company, its too late for a charge back. You can charge back up to a year but the initial contact has to be done within 180 days. The merchant will be contacted and has I think 3 weeks to reply by mail. The dispute must be closed within 2 billings cycles, plus the extra days between cycle cut. There are exceptions to the above, but I wouldnt go into them here.

 

etc etc. I used to work in disputes. As I said these laws only apply to personal credit cards, not business cards.

 

If there is a actual duplicate charge of $4,500 then there should be no problem. If the problem is the TA upgraded instead of refunding money that the CM was not promised, then the dispute falls into being dissatisfied which is very difficult to get money back on. There is a special category for disastisfaction but the CM does not qualify, the merchant (TA she paid) would have to be in the same state and other qualifications that are not meet here. Many TAs dont even give you a refund unless YOU notice the price drop and call them. At least the CM got upgraded without her monitoring the prices. There was no clear understanding where the OP told the TA to refund any price differences etc. It would have to be in writing.

[firefly333]

I agree with you that I would not dispute the charge with Royal as you could end up loosing your cabin.

 

If you dispute thru the credit card, there is no choice who to dispute thru. The merchant that the two charges went to is the one who you dispute with. Hopefully both charges went to the TA (not one to the TA and one to RCI or it gets more confused).

 

Just a warning about 3rd party merchants (TA in this case). If the charge is really meant for a 3rd party, in this case RCI and the money is paid to the TA, you have no recouse with RCI.

 

ebay is another example of 3rd party billing easier to understand. You pay paypal, not the seller of the merchandise....you have no further recourse to dispute with the seller once you pay paypal. Most people dont realize this. If they are dissastisfied with the item or service its a ball of worms because of the 3rd party billing their credit card company by law can do little.