So Much for Honesty!

[angelsfort]

Question: most working folks get paid sick time and paid vacation...

 

do teachers get vacation days also??? I'm not trying to start anything, I'm truly just curious to know if teachers actually get vacation days...

[lddam]

Other than the regular breaks that occur during the summer, winter, and spring, the answer to your question lies within the individual school district. Summer vacation periods are unpaid days, but those breaks during the spring, winter and regular holidays are paid. Here in New York State, most teacher contracts do not include additional "vacation" days, but do often include days of paid leave for personal and/or family illness, bereavement, personal business, and jury duty to name a few of the more common reasons for paid leave. The number of days available in each category is a negotiable item and are established for the individual school district through collective bargaining between the local teacher's union and the school board.

[crusinmama06]

This thread has been running for so long that my children are in a different school now...lol. ;)

 

I am seeing what it's like on the OTHER side (the public school side). After 4 years in a private school (2 pre-k, then 1-2nd grade) , I transferred my kids to a public school (my oldest tested into the gifted program, not available at the private school)

 

Anyway, so I see that we have 5 days to take a vacation DURING the school year. Any more than that needs to be approved by the school superintendant.

 

I will need more than that just to cover our next cruise. So wish me luck...lol :p

[CanadianTwosome]

I think the thing that is really too bad about these programs that restrict a parent's right to make a choice to take their child out of school to travel is that generally those aren't the kids that need to be protected. Parents who can afford to travel and make the effort to ensure their children can accompany them and contact the school to maintain their studies are not the ones who need to be monitored or disciplined. (in my opinion, of course)

 

The parents who do not take interest in their children, who let them miss classes and don't monitor their studies, are the ones that should be affected by the programs... but are also more likely to fall through the cracks because they will lie, or the missed school isn't in big enough chunks to be noticed... I'm sure in some cases they are having a positive effect, but like anything, there should be some discretion involved on the parts of the administrators so that those children who are clearly not in high risk situations can be given some leeway.

[Onessa]

Canadiantwosome - you are so right!

 

One of the statements our DD's teacher made when she saw the dates for which we were requesting an excused absense was "since it is during hunting season she won't miss much." She's a 20+ year veteran teacher who says she has learned not to do much more than review the week of Tgiving because anywhere from 30-40% of the kids just "won't show up" because "well, it's hunting season" -- 12YO is the minimum age for gun deer hunting in our state and there are a large number of parents in our school disctrict who truely believe it is their god-given right to deer hunt.

 

In DD's former elementary school -- it is an area where a very up-scale housing development has gone in in the past 10 years -- the "hip" thing to do the past few years is to take a "family" vacation each winter to somewhere exotic. These parents DEMAND the time off. One mother actually did manage disciplenary action against one of the third-grade teachers who "made" a child pass out programs for their "Christmas Tea". The teacher had simply felt bad that since the child had just come back from 2+ weeks skiing in the Alps and could not particpate in the skit the class had prepared, that perhaps she "would like to pass out the programs?" -- the little girl was thrilled, but mom thought that making her child "work" was ridiculous and (according to witnesses) screamed at the teacher and threw the programs at her. And then it is the teacher who, after Christmas break is under "evaluation" -- and it just happens that the Dad of the child is the owner of the construction company where two of the school board members and the husband of the school superentendent work.

 

It's not the parents who "play by the rules" who need to have rules. Even if there were not "rules" that state that I needed to have my child's excuse approved two weeks in advance, I would have been reminding the teachers about now (having asked in August prior to booking, and after reminding them on October 22 at parent-teacher conferences). The OP tried to do the right thing - and ended up with a mess of bureaucracy in return.

[CC Help Michell]

Question: most working folks get paid sick time and paid vacation...

 

do teachers get vacation days also??? I'm not trying to start anything, I'm truly just curious to know if teachers actually get vacation days...

 

For public school teachers it depends on the district's policies. At least in our case, we are paid based on a 190 day work year. That's 180 school days, two days post-planning, and three "teacher work days (when the kids are out)" during the year. The rest of the time (summers, winter break, spring break, is unpaid leave.

 

We accrue sick leave like most workers do. In our district, we also can take 24 hours of paid personal leave during the year (three days if you use it a full day at a time). That one is "use it or lose it."

[clansac]

Quote:

Originally Posted by angelsfort

Question: most working folks get paid sick time and paid vacation...

 

do teachers get vacation days also??? I'm not trying to start anything, I'm truly just curious to know if teachers actually get vacation days...

 

For public school teachers it depends on the district's policies. At least in our case, we are paid based on a 190 day work year. That's 180 school days, two days post-planning, and three "teacher work days (when the kids are out)" during the year. The rest of the time (summers, winter break, spring break, is unpaid leave.

 

We accrue sick leave like most workers do. In our district, we also can take 24 hours of paid personal leave during the year (three days if you use it a full day at a time). That one is "use it or lose it."

 

In my district, you get sick leave and a 190 day calendar, plus you have to agree to take at least 2 units of continuing ed every summer. Generally, that leaves me with 3 weeks of summer vacation split into a week after school gets out and 2 weeks before school starts back. We get one week at Thanksgiving, two weeks at Christmas and one week at spring break. Spring break I usually take a group of students to Washington DC so it's not really vacation.

 

Also, if we use less than 3 days of sick leave in a year, we get paid a bonus. That usually means everyone comes to work totally sick and shows a movie.

[goLC]

Question: most working folks get paid sick time and paid vacation...

 

do teachers get vacation days also??? I'm not trying to start anything, I'm truly just curious to know if teachers actually get vacation days...

 

Where I teach, we receive 1 personal day per year (but it cannot be taken the first 2 weeks, last 2 weeks, or connected to a holiday... which doesn't seem quite fair to me. Just don't plan to have an emergency day or a funeral day during that time!) We have 10 sick days per year and 4 paid holidays (Thanksgiving, Christmas, New Years, and another one... don't remember which. Doesn't really matter.) We also have mandatory summer days, usually 1-2 weeks worth. Not bad if they're connected (just messes up one chunk of time) but when they're scattered 2 here, 3 there, it can blow the whole summer. We're on an alternative type of calendar; we start school back in July, off 2 weeks in October and Christmas, and 1 1/2 weeks in the Spring, usually getting out of school the last week of May or the first week of June.

 

Not complaining; I love my job. I just get sorta tired of hearing people saying how teachers get all that time off...when school's in session, I work 60 plus hrs/week minimum. When it's out, I still have plenty of school work to be doing. I'm on a sick day now in fact - just got out of the hospital Sunday (pneumonia) - went to school this am to get all the work the kids did last week so I could get a jump on grading it all!

[Cruise Arizona]

Wow, looking at your picture, that means you started college when you were... 12? :)

 

One of my friends was telling me that she was watching Oprah and they had her doctor on there talking about things that age people. Apparently, the cleaning products you use around your house can age you....

 

LOL I hate housework and try to avoid it at all cost...

 

So never clean your house and you too can look young.:p

 

(PS I have to get to work now becuase my parents will be here in two weeks. )

[CanadianTwosome]

Wow, is that what it is? I guess that explains why I look young for my age, too!! ha ha ha Thanks for the tip! I will continue to avoid housework with a vengeance!! :p

[Catzilla]

Exactly, I agree 100%. And I think it has been debated ad nauseum on CC. ;)

 

So no need to debate anymore, the OP knows what's best for her family. She is just trying to find a way to convince the school district of that. :)

 

 

I agree that we all know what's best and should do just that. My girls are now 16 and 13 and every year that we have gone on vacation we have taken them out of school to do so. In the begining we had to deal with the same thing, unexcused, truent, all of the mentioned. I must add that my 16 year old is in advanced placement and will graduate 1 year early and my 13 year old is a grade ahead. So, I'd say that they're OK. Just as Crusinmama06 stated. I just ask the teachers directly for their work and I get it. I don't actually notify the school, but their teachers instead. I haven't had any problems in the last 2 years. We will taking our very first cruise as soon as I can decide where to go and guess what....that will be during school time too...:D However, I must say, if it had caused a problem, such as them falling behind, I would not do it, as I'm sure most of you would say the same. Maybe kidznp doesn't have any children of her own yet? Go, and have fun!!

[Catzilla]

All I can say, as a former teacher, is that your child misses more than "book work" when he/she misses a week of school. Not all of it can be made up or taken with you. I also would NOT, ever again, prepare missed work for a student to take on a vacation. I did it too many times only to hear that the student lost it, forgot it, or just didn't have time to do it. You should all know it's a huge pain and inconvenience to ask a teacher for work ahead of time. Most of what you get will be busy work... it won't be what the student actually missed because that stuff hasn't been planned/prepared yet. And if you insist on asking for work ahead of time... do you child's teacher a favor and ask at least a week in advance. I'd like to know how many times I recieved a note on a Thursday or Friday asking for the next week's work because a student isn't going to be in school. In order to do this, I would have to give up my 20 minute lunch break. Yeah, that makes a teacher real happy with you.

 

If you choose to take your child out of school for a family vacation then know that there are consequences... your child will miss part of their education and your school may hold you accountable. And the argument "then your family can never take a vacation" doesn't hold water with me. Vacations are not something you have to do. It's a choice. From a teacher's point of view: Either take them during school vacation periods or don't take them.

 

Oh my, it sounds like YOU need a vacation of your own. Life is way too short my friend. Education is VERY important, I'm sure we all agree, but family is MORE important. QUALITY of life is important too, we all NEED to take breaks and they can't always be done on "school time off".

[spleenstomper]

I taught for 8 years and believe it is not only HIGHLY desirable, but also usually very worthwhile to take kids on week-long family "field trips" whether it is during school or not.

 

What is sad is that this child will receive SO MUCH MORE than any book or classroom can give her, through just seeing another country, and all her school's district can worry about is their attendance because of "No child left behind". This child isn't getting left behind-- she's getting propelled forward.

 

Schools have lost sight of what education means. 3-5 hours of homework means NOTHING-- it doesn't mean the school is good and it most certainly doesn't mean the teacher is good.

 

For instance, if I were to take my kids to Hawaii during school they would:

 

*See a volcano instead of reading about one in a book

*touch a seahorse instead of looking at a picture of one

 

ETC... I could go on for days.

 

Today's educational system is broken so badly that parents have to do anything they can to supplement their children's educations.

 

To me, there is nothing better than taking a family field trip to supplement an inferior education through seeing, touching and doing...

 

I think whatever is for the true benefit of the child's education (I don't care about the teacher's paperwork or the school's paperwork) is most important... and nothing can replace the real value of an experience.

 

And we're talking about a first grader.....

 

Even a trip to Disneyworld can be justified during school: go on the "behind the seeds" tour in Epcot and learn about hydroponics and aeroponics and why the need for soilless gardening anyway, and take the underground tour and see how the whole park operates. Go to Epcot during the Christmas Season and listen to the stories of St. Nick from all the various ones of the different countries. THAT's supplementing an inferior education. That's more learning then the child would get from a book.

 

The reason we take the kids out is simple: Dh is a surgeon and his patients want their surgeries on THEIR off time, and standard holidays are coveted spots. People dont' get lot of vacation time any more and they can't afford to take time off of work for something like a surgery.... so we take our vacations on off times.

 

Plus, we are a high-functioning family and love messing with authority ;) We're not sheeple. lol.

[skylock]

[i think whatever is for the true benefit of the child's education (I don't care about the teacher's paperwork or the school's paperwork) is most important... and nothing can replace the real value of an experience.

 

***************************************

 

My thinking EXACTLY.

 

My children are well rounded productive citizens who can converse on almost any subject you can think of. If you want to talk about Peru, they have been there, so go ahead.

 

They also think for themselves and do not follow the crowd.

 

My position remains, they are your children, you make the final decision and to hell with no child left behind.

 

I am almost positive that any parents discussing this matter knows their children and take an interest in their education and if they have a child with special needs would recognize that too and act accordingly.

[SweetAngel]

What makes me sad?

 

Seeing my sixth grade daughter struggle with an hour or two of homework every night ... seeing her get a detention for forgetting to turn in one of her four assignments for the day ... hearing how much she hates school ... having to explain that free time is something you only get on weekends.

 

Yes, she is among the top in her class and on the honor roll, but at what cost?

 

And is she really getting a better education than I, who had homework only twice (yes twice) in my entire year of sixth grade? Yet I loved school and went on to graduate at the top of my class, Magna Cum Laude. I valued education so much that I became a teacher.

 

Now, I give little homework to my elementary students, and if they need a vacation from life to go on a cruise, then bless them.

[CanadianTwosome]

That's crazy!! Have you looked into other schools? So none of the children in that class are expected to have extracurricular activities? Whatever the teacher's philosophy is regarding education, stimulation and incentive, I'm pretty sure we disagree!!

[lddam]

So none of the children in that class are expected to have extracurricular activities? QUOTE]

 

Oh, come now, CanadianTwosome, do you honestly believe that an hour or two of homework prevents students from participating in extracurricular activities? IMO, it seems reasonable to assume that someone who is at the top of her class and on the honor roll should have sufficient time management skills so as to enjoy extracurricular activities if they were a priority and still meet homework responsibilities. Again, just my opinion based upon the experience of having a daughter attending schools with rigorous academic programs and who was able to find the time to be in student gov't. (Gr. 6-12), the drama club (Gr. 6-12), private dance lessons (K-10), participate in intramurals and still graduate in the top 10% of her class of 281.

 

Dave

[SweetAngel]

Sixth grade is considered middle school now in most midwestern states, so my 11 year old daughter has seven classes a day with seven different teachers.

 

The point of having middle schools instead of the old junior highs was to ease the children into the new responsibilities of switching classes. I don't see any ease, though. I just see the children being thrown into a high school atmosphere much sooner than they otherwise would have. The penalties for late work & tardies are strict, and with seven classes, that's seven times the chance of being late, seven times the chance of having homework, and seven times the chance of leaving something important in your locker.

[SweetAngel]

Iddam, that is wonderful your daughter did so well. It gives me hope. Did she ever show signs of stress? How did you handle it? I could really use some pointers.

 

However, never assume anything about those at the top of their class. Many brilliant people lack organizational skills. Even a student with ADD or other disorder can be at the top of their class. The cost to get there can be extreme, though.

 

We choose to do an extracurricular activity too, which adds to the problem ...

 

Typical evening: 2 hrs homework, dinner, 1 hr activity class (skating), 1 hr transportation (to & from -- as well as changing clothes), then off to bed.

 

We find that one extra activity and homework pretty much takes the whole evening. There is no unstructured free time. My daughter is still at the point where she needs 10 hours of sleep a night, and school starts at 7:45.

 

When I was in sixth grade, I took dance class and an after-school challenge class and I was the lead in the school play. During school, I was in advanced placement classes with pre-calculus. Luckily for me, there was no homework. I never felt stress till 12th grade.

 

I am saddened because educational philosophies have changed in such a way that my daughter IS stressed.

 

I am also saddened that many schools are no longer allowing their students to take that needed vacation.

[spleenstomper]

My husband is increasingly treating children as young as 6th grade for stress-related ailments.

 

I think it is incredibly sad for 9-12 year olds to have to learn time management skills. :( :( :( High school... I can see, but then again I guess that's why so many college students smoke pot.

 

Dave, only because I'm curious... how many children do you have?

[Warm Breezes]

So none of the children in that class are expected to have extracurricular activities? QUOTE]

 

Oh, come now, CanadianTwosome, do you honestly believe that an hour or two of homework prevents students from participating in extracurricular activities? IMO, it seems reasonable to assume that someone who is at the top of her class and on the honor roll should have sufficient time management skills so as to enjoy extracurricular activities if they were a priority and still meet homework responsibilities. Again, just my opinion based upon the experience of having a daughter attending schools with rigorous academic programs and who was able to find the time to be in student gov't. (Gr. 6-12), the drama club (Gr. 6-12), private dance lessons (K-10), participate in intramurals and still graduate in the top 10% of her class of 281.

 

Dave

My DS is in 8th grade this year and has always been a straight A student. He also plays soccer, basketball and band for the school. Last year (7th grade) was the absolute worse year for him in terms of homework. It was not his organizational skills lacking, it was all 7 of his teachers giving him homework every night. Soccer and Basketball required 2 hours of practice on non-game nights and game nights lasted 2-3 hours if not longer if away and having to wait for the 8th grade team to play before coming home. His average time doing homework was 3-4 hours every night. This was very stressful him. There were a couple of times where I had to send a note to some of his teachers because he had worked on homework from the time he got home until 10:00 - 11:00 PM and I finally sent hime to bed because he was exhausted and frustrated. He still pulled straight A's and it made me wonder how students who were not as organized as he was, with his natural ability to learn, handled this time of stress.

 

The school encouraged the students to participate in these extra-curricular activites and then punished them with no down-time by piling on the homework. The students were all warned by teachers and older students that the 7th grade was the toughest year for homework. This year, he rarely brings any homework home. He is still getting straight A's. Does this sound like something is wrong with the school system?

 

I am absolutely dreading when DD, now in 5th grade goes into the 7th grade. She is an A/B student who has trouble organizing herself. She needs direction in getting her work done. She is also on 5 competitive dance teams, with practice for 7 hours a weak. Our one requirement for her to be able to be on so many teams is that she keeps her grades up. If the system does not change, I'm afraid of the stress this child will have trying to keep up through no fault of her own. I don't understand how the school can keep this practice up when they know the stress these kids are going through and even warning them ahead of time. Why are they putting them through this? Is it for "No child left behind"? If it is then I say this program causes more harm than it does good. Just a concerned mothers honest opinion.

[lddam]

Is it for "No child left behind"? If it is then I say this program causes more harm than it does good. Just a concerned mothers honest opinion.

 

Warm Breezes, to a great extent, I couldn't agree with you more. Fortunately, my daughters passed through our school system at a time when programs were more child-centered. Yes, academics were important, but that emphasis was tempered by an understanding of the learning modes of students and individualized instruction was in vogue, especially at the elementary and junior high levels.

 

With the current focus on achievement and student test results, teachers feel compelled to over emphasize the academic aspect of their programs and sometimes lose sight of how that over-emphasis affects their students. In my opinion, all that "No Child Left Behind" and "The NYS Learning Standards" has succeeded in doing is to dehumanize an extremely important human endeavor...the education of our youth.

 

Dave

[CanadianTwosome]

So none of the children in that class are expected to have extracurricular activities? QUOTE]

 

Oh, come now, CanadianTwosome, do you honestly believe that an hour or two of homework prevents students from participating in extracurricular activities? IMO, it seems reasonable to assume that someone who is at the top of her class and on the honor roll should have sufficient time management skills so as to enjoy extracurricular activities if they were a priority and still meet homework responsibilities. Again, just my opinion based upon the experience of having a daughter attending schools with rigorous academic programs and who was able to find the time to be in student gov't. (Gr. 6-12), the drama club (Gr. 6-12), private dance lessons (K-10), participate in intramurals and still graduate in the top 10% of her class of 281.

 

Dave

 

I don't think it prevents students from participating in extracurricular activities, but it certainly makes it difficult. My daughter has non-school activities Monday through Thursday evenings and Saturday mornings. If she was also expected to do 1-2 hours of homework per night, when would she have time to be a kid? When would she have time to read purely for pleasure? When would she have time to enjoy playing a game of Monopoly or Scrabble with her family?

 

If there is one thing I have learned to value as I've gotten older, it's time. I will never get back those moments when I was a child and the world was full of new experiences not only to learn academically, but through play. Adulthood comes very quickly relative to a person's life, and once it hits, we are bombarded by responsibilities that will interfere with our playtime for the rest of our days. I think expecting a child to, in effect, work a 10 hour day (8 hours at school + 2 hours homework) is ridiculous.

 

I should note, too, that it's wonderful that every single poster on this thread (and many others) has had straight A honor students for children. Personally, I see that as much more of an indication of individual potential than of good teaching - certainly it contributes, but if it were all about the teaching, there would be no C students. Personally, I'm much more impressed when someone tells me that their child, whether an A, B, C or D student, has grown up to be someone who works hard, treats others well, and is self confident.

[bigcraig]

I have not read every post in this thread, however here in SC we arranged with our school to withdraw our child as we were moving(cruise ships move ;) ) then when we returned we re-enrolled her as our move was off and we are back.

Some of us due to seniority can only vacation during the school year or not vacation at all.

 

BC:cool:

[kalamari]

The reality is, it's a school policy and you have no choice but to accept it. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me either, but if they made an exception for you they'd have to make it for 100's more.

 

If it were my child I'd rather do the right and honest thing instead of set a bad example of being dishonest. Your'd kid might not know it but your conscience will.

 

I'm with a few other posters, that it'd be wiser to plan vacations around school the way most people do.

 

Who's needs are being met here mom??

 

All I can say, as a former teacher, is that your child misses more than "book work" when he/she misses a week of school. Not all of it can be made up or taken with you. I also would NOT, ever again, prepare missed work for a student to take on a vacation. I did it too many times only to hear that the student lost it, forgot it, or just didn't have time to do it. You should all know it's a huge pain and inconvenience to ask a teacher for work ahead of time. Most of what you get will be busy work... it won't be what the student actually missed because that stuff hasn't been planned/prepared yet. And if you insist on asking for work ahead of time... do you child's teacher a favor and ask at least a week in advance. I'd like to know how many times I recieved a note on a Thursday or Friday asking for the next week's work because a student isn't going to be in school. In order to do this, I would have to give up my 20 minute lunch break. Yeah, that makes a teacher real happy with you.

 

If you choose to take your child out of school for a family vacation then know that there are consequences... your child will miss part of their education and your school may hold you accountable. And the argument "then your family can never take a vacation" doesn't hold water with me. Vacations are not something you have to do. It's a choice. From a teacher's point of view: Either take them during school vacation periods or don't take them.