What's wrong with Jamaica?

[Kruzeagain]

Well, I guess all these posts cements it for me.

 

Liberty of the Seas has a stop in Montego Bay, and while I loved Jamaica during 2 trips waaaayyyy back in the early 80's I doubt our wee family (DW, 10-yr old DD and Grandma) will bother hopping off the ship.

 

While I'm a boundlessly optimistic person, I don't see much sense in rolling the dice on this one.

 

Happy Cruising,

Alan

[wolfganghowell]

We did the Falls through the Reggae Baby RCCL excursion on Ocho Rios. No problems with any of it. We took the short walk from the port to Margaritaville and were not hassled. We had fun at M and walked back without incident. HOWEVER, there are simply too many stories to ignore. When we go to Mo Bay in the spring, we are staying on ship until Margaritaville opens and then heading there for several hours. I know this problem is frustrating for the many fine Jamaicans but until the good outweighs the bad and the government finds a way to keep their criminal element from terrorizing tourists, the only way we can object is with our money and our interest. I really wish the cruise ships would switch ports - I'd rather do Key West than Jamaica.

[fifty]

From my cruise review:

 

Wednesday 9/19 (Ocho Rios, Jamaica)

 

 

10:40am

 

Today is the one port day of this cruise where I seriously considered staying onboard beforehand. There is absolutely nothing in the least that has ever really attracted me to Jamaica before. I honestly could care less about its history, people, and most of all - I detest reggae almost as much as hip hop or its un-holy child: reggeaton. My pre-breakfast stroll to the Lido deck observation deck forward (located right on top of the bridge) pretty much cemented this view.

 

 

We are not docked on the Main Dock that Princess has on its little shopping map. I have to assume that we are therefore docked at the James Bond Dock - perhaps, just because of the name, a saving grace to this rinky dinky excuse of a port. After using my binoculars from the observation deck I'll change my previous thoughts about Cuba: once Cuba opens up to the American Tourist, they'll drop Jamaica for Havana. Another cool possibility would be a cruise touching the 3 ports in the Caribbean with the three El Morro Spanish colonial fortifications: San Juan, Barranquilla (Colombia), and Cienfuegos (Cuba).

 

 

The Monstrosity of the Seas is docked at the Main Pier. The ship is huge and Royal Caribbean can now deaden the taste buds of 5,000 passengers at a time instead of just 3,000; a crowning achievement in any corporate environment, I'm sure. Loud music was blaring over there (10:15am). As I observed the behemoth, I now knew that my past July cruise was likely to be my second to last one on Royal. My experience on Princess has been like night and day so far. I made a future cruise booking for RCCL in July. Maybe I'll redo that southern route to take advantage of the OBC (that route with Aruba & Curacao were worth it); at least the OBC will cover 5 nights cover at Portofino's, the only place on board worth eating at Royal. I suppose I really don't want to "get out there" much…

 

 

Anyway, back to Ocho Rios. Since I promised myself, when booking this cruise, I will go ashore to eat some jerk food as part of my "culinary" themed self-tour. Based on posts on the boards at cruise critic, I'm interested at a place called the Jerk Center.

 

 

Breakfast was at the Horizon Buffet: Smoked salmon, a bagel, some sautéed (canned) mushrooms, and a cup of tea. Plus a discovery: deep fried boiled egg. With a name like that, I just had to try that. Turned out to be a hard boiled egg, with a very slight crust, and served in a sweetish sesame sauce; my guess is that it's an Asian dish. I also saw fried rice for breakfast… We should be thankful that the foods of the world are so wonderfully diverse!!!

 

 

2pm

 

Back from a magnificent lunch. The Ocho Rios Jerk Center is on the road towards Dunn Falls. As expected, I got ripped off on the taxi by having to pay $15 for a 5 minute ride (mind you, at first they offered it at $20). If Jamaica didn't have enough of a low score in my book in the first place, this type of attitude toward tourists doesn't exactly help.

 

 

Amazingly, I met a co-worker there. I knew ahead of time she was going to cruise out of Miami/Fort Lauderdale but didn't know what ship. Turns out she's on the Behemoth of the Seas and that darn thing will be in Grand Cayman and Cozumel at the same time as us as well. Maybe Princess should consider doing the cruise in reverse (start with Cozumel and end with Princess Cays) to avoid overlapping with other ships in port.

 

 

In any case, I came for the food and what glorious food it was. The Jerk Center is an open air restaurant with a big parking lot in front, and reggae music coming from a large speaker system. You go to the cash register, order, and the food is then brought to you. I had a ¼ jerk chicken, a ¼ lb. jerk pork, and something called a Festival. Both the chicken and the pork had a jerk taste that was not at all overpowering of the palate; terrific stuff. On the table, they had a home made hot sauce which I believe was made of scotch bonnet peppers (should have asked) which I hopefully shall feel tomorrow morning (the mark of a true good hot sauce in my opinion).

 

 

The Festival was a type of lightly sweet fried dough tied into a simple knot. It acted as a terrific counterpart to the spicy/hotness of the jerk dishes. As a side benefit, since the chemical that makes hot "hot" - capsaicin - only bonds with fat (it doesn't bond with water. Thus sodas/beer don't help when trying to quell "hotness"; milk and ice cream, however, do), this deep fried dough also helps remove the extra hotness that may linger for longer than one might wish.

 

 

They were showing the World Cricket Championships on TV. England vs. India. With apologies to cricket aficionados: from what I could make out, each "home run" is worth 6 points and every "hit" is worth 1, which explains a bit these extremely high scoring affairs. The only player to use a mitt seems to be the catcher who doesn't get to see too much action as the batters seem to hit every ball. The pitcher hurls the ball toward the batter trying to hit these 3 sticks that are set up behind the batter. I think that if the batter swings & misses and the pitcher knocks down one of the 3 sticks, the batter's out; the same batter seems to keep hitting until he's finally out (either the pitcher hitting the sticks or someone catching the ball). There was actually a camera imbedded in those sticks and sometimes they would show the view from there. Think of it as a camera placed inside the catcher's mitt in baseball. The cricket ball looked like something fairly heavy and encased in some hard looking leather. The outfielders catch pop flies with their bare hands - ouch. Kudos to them. The changeover from defense to offense seemed to take an awful lot of time and the umps seemed to be applauded as they got on the field again, tipping their hats to the crowd. The fans in the stands seem to party a lot more than in baseball. Then again, with so many "home runs" who wouldn't? You're down 60 points; hey, no problem mon, 10 home runs coming up. Party on.

 

 

The food part was US$10.00 and worth every single Abraham Lincoln. The diet cola was unfortunately diet Pepsi, but I miraculously survived (those that know me are aware that I absolutely detest Pepsi products since having been force-fed them to me in my Babson days). The drinks were a bit expensive at $1.00 but it was nice to drink out of a glass bottle again. Even Pepsi products taste better…

 

 

The same highway robber of a taxi driver picked me up again (Why not? Sucker the same tourist twice!!!) and hijacked me for another $15 back to the ship. However, he was kind enough to make a pit stop at the Taj Majal shopping plaza and I picked up the obligatory jerk seasoning and marinade. I look forward to experimenting with these back in San Juan.

 

 

As I got back to the ship it was hard keeping a straight face while I lied through my teeth saying that I look forward to my next trip to Jamaica. This place now positively ranks at the same level as Darfur, Iran, North Korea, and Iraq on my "to do" list…

 

I'm surprised that you lowered yourself to try the local food! Weren't you afraid of getting Hep A or something?

 

Most of these posts of people afraid of getting off the boat remind me of something my 80 year-old mother would be afraid of and thus, as she has always done, sits at home, afraid to go anywhere, try anything new and above all, does not practice tolerance or good grace.

 

Pity.

[sabandmom]

Wolfganghowell,

Thank you for your input. I was considering going to Margarittaville in Montego BAy. Reading this thread is kinda scary. Do you feel Margaritaville will bo ok? You mentioned going when they open. When do they open?

Thanks for the info!

[Hedocple]

Yeah...If you're not the least bit open minded it's best you stay on the ship. Jamaica is certainly not Mayberry. We on the other hand will be making our 10th land vacation and 11th overall trip in a few months. We've enjoyed nothing but positive experiences. For those that stay on the ship take a look at our JA photo's in our Webshot albums to see what you've missed.

[wolfganghowell]

Ok, I don't think anyone who has opted to stay on the ship and avoid Jamaica's highs and lows have insulted the folks who do get off the ship and participate in what it has to offer. So for those of us who may be a bit more cautious, lighten up. I'm very open minded, very adventurous, well traveled and live and work in a big city and have lived in others. I CHOOSE not to have to deal with a criminal element or street based harassment on my vacation as do others.

 

sabandmom - I have heard that MoBay Margaritaville is very close to port and a lot of fun. I have heard some people walk there and others take cabs. Just use your best judgement. As I stated, when we walked to the one in Ocho Rios we had no problems. However, for full disclosure, it helps that Mr Wolf is 6'5, 235 and LOOKS mean. He's not of course but he can look intimidating when he wants to.

[travellovers2]

We went to Montego Bay last year in November while cruising on Radiance of the Seas. We took the tour of John Pass Plantation. As we drove through the downtown we realized we had gotten into something dangerous. There were hundreds of people on the street and all of them looking into cars as they passed by. They took us to a church, but the driver stayed in the car and positioned the car back first. He kept looking around as if he had to watch out for something. We stayed in the van because it was raining and noticed his attitude. We did not feel very safe seeing how he was acting. From there they took us to a mountain where supposedly we were going to hear 90 children sing in a school. When we arrived there were only three kids. They kept pushing us to take a picture holding two kids on our laps. I refused to do it because it felt as if they were using the kids. Then they handed out a piece of paper for us to send school supplies. It just wasnt right. From there we went to a "plantation" that was a house on a hill with very dangerous steps. We tasted fruits that were actually very good and then had some chicken and the sales pitch of rum and other items. It didnt stop raining all day, but since the ship did not want to cancel the tour, we went anyways. What a rip off. When we tried to get back in the ship terminal, the driver had some problem with his license and we were denied entrance. He parked on the side and went to do something, came back and we went it. Then he told us he had to drop us off and pick us up again on the other side of the terminal to drive us to our ship that was docked on the other side. Some people had asked to be dropped off on the way back to the ship and he told them they had to purchase another tour that would take them to the shopping district.:eek:

 

All together is was the worst $53 I have ever spent in my life and a big waste of our money. We decided we would never get off in Jamaica again. But we are taking Liberty and unbelievably, inspite of all the bad reports they MUST read, they are still docking there. So this time we thought we look up on the boards and see if anything has changed, but from what I read on this thread, nothing has changed. So I guess a ship day it will be while we are docked in Montego.:cool:

[J&KCruisers]

We are going to Ocho Rios for the fourth year in a row this December.

 

The difference we have found in Jamaica are the many guides you can find on this board. We have NEVER felt danger or fear while with the guides and have found the island and the people to be absolutely wonderful.

 

Anywhere you travel in the world, you will find poverty and cultural differences which instinctively will make you cautious. This is no different than parts of Mexico, South America, Asia or Africa.

 

Open your mind, use a guide and find out how beautiful Jamaica is!!!

 

We love the place and have already booked for next year.

[Captain Canuck]

its amazing how some people assume NOT wanting to go out in Jamaica is due to undue concern over safety. they go out and don't get killed so it must be safe right. my wife is a sweetheart. we go out and she sees nothing but the nice stuff. Hawaii is one of our favourites. we got married there. we go for a walk and I notice the hookers, the drug dealers and the undercover cops. they are not overly present but they are there. she sees the flowers and the sunshine. most of the carribean islands are like that only on a bigger scale. you won't get into trouble if you use some common sense. Jamaica is on another scale. there are no go areas the cops don't go into. as a tourist you have no idea where these area...(that goes for parts of Toronto too) on a tour you will probably avoid these areas but maybe not the people who live in them. violence in Jamaica is off the scale. its prudent to avoid the place

[robntawn]

sabandmom - I have heard that MoBay Margaritaville is very close to port and a lot of fun. I have heard some people walk there and others take cabs. Just use your best judgement. As I stated, when we walked to the one in Ocho Rios we had no problems. However, for full disclosure, it helps that Mr Wolf is 6'5, 235 and LOOKS mean. He's not of course but he can look intimidating when he wants to.

Isn't the MoBay Margaritaville "taxi-distance" away from the ship? If memory serves, you can see the ship from Margaritaville, but it is a very long distance to walk. The one in Ocho rios is definitely walking distance, and the route is entirely fenced in so relatively safe as well.

 

We loved Ocho rios, but thought MoBay was a pit.

[wolfganghowell]

I think it is possible to walk to MoBay Margaritaville but I think it is more advisable on many levels to cab it there. We definitely will be taking a cab. And of course we have to remember to take a government approved cab.

[karen&roy]

We went to Jamaica with about 300 other bikers on our biker cruise and no one bothered us at all. Did the falls then Margaritaville. Guess it helps to have *bad* looking guys with ya!! LOL :p

[karen&roy]

Just did a search on the US Dept of Travel and here is a brief quote of what they say. You can read it all at http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1147.html

I think i to will stay on the ship this time :confused:

CRIME: Crime, including violent crime, is a serious problem in Jamaica, particularly in Kingston. While the vast majority of crimes occur in impoverished areas, the violence is not confined. The primary criminal concern of a tourist is being a victim of theft. In several cases, armed robberies of Americans have turned violent when the victims resisted handing over valuables. Crime is exacerbated by the fact that police are understaffed and ineffective. Therefore, tourists should take their own precautions and always pay extra attention to their surroundings when traveling, exercise care when walking outside after dark, and should always avoid areas known for high crime rates. As a general rule, valuables should not be left unattended, including in hotel rooms and on the beach. Care should be taken when carrying high value items such as cameras, or when wearing expensive jewelry on the street. Women's handbags should be zipped and held close to the body. Men should carry wallets in their front pants pocket. Large amounts of cash should always be handled discreetly.

 

The U.S. Embassy advises its staff to avoid inner-city areas of Kingston and other urban centers, such as those listed in the section on Safety and Security, whenever possible. Particular caution is advised after dark in downtown Kingston. The U.S. Embassy also cautions its staff not to use public buses, which are often overcrowded and are a frequent venue for crime.

 

To enhance security in the principal resort areas, the Government of Jamaica has taken a number of steps, including assignment of special police foot and bicycle patrols. Particular care is still called for, however, when staying at isolated villas and smaller establishments that may have fewer security arrangements. Some street vendors and taxi drivers in tourist areas are known to confront and harass tourists to buy their wares or employ their services. If a firm "No, thank you" does not solve the problem, visitors may wish to seek the assistance of a tourist police officer.

 

Drug use is prevalent in some tourist areas. American citizens should avoid buying, selling, holding, or taking illegal drugs under any circumstances. There is anecdotal evidence that the use of so-called date rape drugs, such as Ruhypnol, has become more common at clubs and private parties. Marijuana, cocaine, heroin and other illegal narcotics are especially potent in Jamaica, and their use may lead to severe or even disastrous health consequences.

[twinkletoes4445]

I am not disagreeing with the stories on this thread. and Jamaica may be worse than other ports...

 

But, any Caribbean ports have men that try to sell you drugs, women that offer hair braiding, and vendors that give you the hard-sell. it is also common on each island for people to treat Americans like you make a lot of money, and you had better fork some of it over or you are cheap.

 

Not true. We travel to Grand Cayman all the time and have never encountered anything like this, which is why we go there. In fact, Jamaica is the only port that we have encountered this.

 

However, we did enjoy our time in Jamaica, but we toured the island knowing what to expect. The thing to remember about Jamaica is the government is corrupt, IMO and it really is pretty much a third-world country so of course when tourists show up the locals are going to try and get you to buy things. I can't tell you how many people we saw living under trees and in shacks. I'd do the same thing if I lived in that type of environment.

[sknydave]

Just did a search on the US Dept of Travel and here is a brief quote of what they say. You can read it all at http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1147.html

 

I think i to will stay on the ship this time :confused:

 

CRIME: Crime, including violent crime, is a serious problem in Jamaica, particularly in Kingston. While the vast majority of crimes occur in impoverished areas, the violence is not confined. The primary criminal concern of a tourist is being a victim of theft. In several cases, armed robberies of Americans have turned violent when the victims resisted handing over valuables. Crime is exacerbated by the fact that police are understaffed and ineffective. Therefore, tourists should take their own precautions and always pay extra attention to their surroundings when traveling, exercise care when walking outside after dark, and should always avoid areas known for high crime rates. As a general rule, valuables should not be left unattended, including in hotel rooms and on the beach. Care should be taken when carrying high value items such as cameras, or when wearing expensive jewelry on the street. Women's handbags should be zipped and held close to the body. Men should carry wallets in their front pants pocket. Large amounts of cash should always be handled discreetly.

 

The U.S. Embassy advises its staff to avoid inner-city areas of Kingston and other urban centers, such as those listed in the section on Safety and Security, whenever possible. Particular caution is advised after dark in downtown Kingston. The U.S. Embassy also cautions its staff not to use public buses, which are often overcrowded and are a frequent venue for crime.

 

To enhance security in the principal resort areas, the Government of Jamaica has taken a number of steps, including assignment of special police foot and bicycle patrols. Particular care is still called for, however, when staying at isolated villas and smaller establishments that may have fewer security arrangements. Some street vendors and taxi drivers in tourist areas are known to confront and harass tourists to buy their wares or employ their services. If a firm "No, thank you" does not solve the problem, visitors may wish to seek the assistance of a tourist police officer.

 

Drug use is prevalent in some tourist areas. American citizens should avoid buying, selling, holding, or taking illegal drugs under any circumstances. There is anecdotal evidence that the use of so-called date rape drugs, such as Ruhypnol, has become more common at clubs and private parties. Marijuana, cocaine, heroin and other illegal narcotics are especially potent in Jamaica, and their use may lead to severe or even disastrous health consequences.

 

Sounds like a description of any major US city. If you look at the crime rate numbers for Jamaica it is pretty much identical to that of Washington DC or similar cities per capita.

[twinkletoes4445]

Sounds like a description of any major US city. If you look at the crime rate numbers for Jamaica it is pretty much identical to that of Washington DC or similar cities per capita.

 

A few years ago Jamaica was named the murder capital of the world. There may be poverty and crime here, but it's nothing like what you're going to see there. However, that doesn't mean I wouldn't go there...but I think it's wise for people to understand exactly what they're getting into. And saying, "it's pretty much identical to that of DC" isn't really painting a complete picture of what Jamaica is truly like...which is a third world country, IMO, that's riddled with strife, poverty and crime.

 

We enjoyed our time there. We took a guided tour and never felt unsafe, but I'd never wander around there on my own.

[sknydave]

Again, take a look at the crime numbers per 100,000 and it is the same as Washington DC and actually lower than New Orleans. I didn't say anything about the residents' living conditions.

[spleenstomper]

My friend and her husband were on their little floaty rafts in the ocean and some dude kayaked up to them and offered marijuana. lol. I mean, I'd be tempted, but like someone else said, I would NOT want to wind up in jail in Jamiaca.

 

And my cousin said the minute they were off the ship and on Jamiacan soil, some woman was braiding her daughter's hair without even asking if they wanted it. The daughter thought it was cool though.....

[twinkletoes4445]

Again, take a look at the crime numbers per 100,000 and it is the same as Washington DC and actually lower than New Orleans. I didn't say anything about the residents' living conditions.

 

There probably are places in this country that has the same amount of crime, but I am not going to be getting off a ship and touring the area. It's wise to know before you go...exactly what you're getting into when you go into a foreign country, especially Jamaica. They don't scare the beejesus out of you during their "talks" on the ship for nothing. There's a reason you need to be careful while in Jamaica.

 

Here's some things I found. Jamaica has a population of 2.7 million and in 2005 they had 1700 murders (which gave them the title of Murder Capital of the World). DC on the other hand, during that year had 195 murders (with 582 thousand people). So if DC had 2.7 million people, according to their statistics, that would still only be 975 murders. Jamaica is well above that number.

 

http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20060108/cleisure/cleisure5.html

 

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/dccrime.htm

 

 

I'm not saying don't get off the ship...but rather be informed.

[sknydave]

I see the crime has gone down in DC since 2002 and up in Jamaica since 2002 as those were the figures I used. Thats good and bad.

 

Anyhoo, just as you wouldn't tour the worst areas of DC, you aren't touring the worst areas in Jamaica. I haven't said not to be careful as caution should be used ANYWHERE. The point I'm trying to make is our own country is riddled with crime yet people visit different cities all the time.

[rav4lady]

I was on a cruise that stopped in Ochos Rios last yr. A friend and I opted for a river tubing excursion. We had a blast. I am a little plump and apparently the Jamaican men like that build as they all swarmed all over me. I actually enjoyed this, being single and able to joke and have fun was great. They could be a little pushy, maybe a lot pushy, but I didn't let it bother me. I just laughed and said NO. Didn't have any problems getting them to leave me alone when i wanted them to. Just have to say NO! We walked to the Margaritaville there and had lots of fun there too. Our excursion took us on a tour thru the downtown area where we saw the poverty expressed by others on here. Very sad, but I didn't fear for my safety. Saw just as much poverty in Mexico, Honduras and Belize. Felt less safe in Mexico. All in all, I won't stay on the ship. After all i cruise to see more of the world too, not just the ship. I love water activities so will find something in the water with a meal on shore. Hope you all enjoy whatever activity, just be smart and say NO.

[Captain Canuck]

while I think its true that its probably more culturally acceptable to have a few extra pounds on you in Jamaica ( in poor countries that is a sign of wealth as you can afford to eat), what is also going on is a gambit for cash and/or a green card. so interestingly the play on women is less violent than that on men but the aim for both is $$$$$$

 

sorry but I am old and cynical

[clearwaters]

Hmmm. Thanks. Leaves one to wonder why the cruise lines stop there in the first doggone place? Does the corrupt govt pay the cruise lines to stop in Jamaica? The big question here is WHY IN THE WORLD GO THERE?

 

Our cruise stops there in March and I may be huddled with the rest on deck that day.

 

Now I'm starting to get angry that the cruise lines would knowingly jepordize our safety AND waste our time and money.

 

I can't stand being pestered. Period. :mad:

[Hedocple]

Hmmm. Thanks. Leaves one to wonder why the cruise lines stop there in the first doggone place? Does the corrupt govt pay the cruise lines to stop in Jamaica? The big question here is WHY IN THE WORLD GO THERE?

 

Our cruise stops there in March and I may be huddled with the rest on deck that day.

 

Now I'm starting to get angry that the cruise lines would knowingly jepordize our safety AND waste our time and money.

 

I can't stand being pestered. Period. :mad:

 

I imagine they go there because millions of cruise passengers and land vacationers want to. The great thing about it is you have a choice. If you're unhappy with the cruise line going there book another cruise.

You can huddle on deck but you'll be surpized to find out the majority of the passengers will leave the ship.

BTW...Recently read somewhere that the cruise lines are developing another port in JA besides MoBay and Ocho Rios that can accomodate the mega cruise ships. What does that tell ya?

[clearwaters]

I imagine they go there because millions of cruise passengers and land vacationers want to. The great thing about it is you have a choice. If you're unhappy with the cruise line going there book another cruise.

You can huddle on deck but you'll be surpized to find out the majority of the passengers will leave the ship.

BTW...Recently read somewhere that the cruise lines are developing another port in JA besides MoBay and Ocho Rios that can accomodate the mega cruise ships. What does that tell ya?

 

Do you and your family move around on the island? Do you feel safe there? How absolutely ridiculous that passengers on major cruise lines (I have reservations on RCCL) have to base an intinerary choice on which ports are safe or not! I guess the U.S State Dept is wrong, too?

 

It's too late now to change our reservations or get a total refund. My family is fairly large and everyone has made plans.

 

HAD I KNOWN what I know now I would have chosen another itinerary. And, of course, I will NEVER again schedule another cruise that stops in Jamaica. Frankly, I am fuming.

 

Your statement: "You can huddle on deck but you'll be surpized to find out the majority of the passengers will leave the ship." We'll see.