Fuel Supplement announced (4 merged threads)

[Jade13]

I thought I would share this with you all. I am surprised that they indicated theat there would be a further response. But who knows.

 

Dear Mr. and Mrs. XXXXX

 

Thank you for your inquiry regarding our recent announcement about a fuel supplement.

 

As you can imagine, we have received numerous inquiries regarding this subject. We are currently reviewing all inquiries, recommendations, and suggestions that we have received and will be responding as soon as possible. You can expect a follow up response shortly.

 

Thank you for your continued patience.

 

Thank you for choosing Celebrity Cruises.

 

Sheila Whedon

Customer Service Representative

 

 

 

-----Original Message-----

 

From: 11/19/2007 12:20:55 PM

To: <captainsclub@celebrity.com>

Subject: Celebrity Logo Item.

 

 

Dear Captains club. You can tell Mr. Brian Rice that he is welcome to keep his lousy logo Item. Im sure its not worth the amount that Celebrity is squeezing out of me for their fuel surcharge! Im sure when I board my cruise I will feel just like your commercial advertises Staring you Sucker!

 

What is the e-mail that I should use if I am a first time Celebrity cruiser? I still need to send a letter now that I have a copy of the original Terms and Conditions (two brochures plus pdf), and original pdf invoice without the surcharge?

 

Did you really call someone a "sucker!" Does Sheila have an e-mail address?

[Drew B]

I suppose I'm as guilty as anyone else of attempted legal hair-splitting here. This is getting even more arcane than debates over the meaning of "jeans." I just go back to what seems to me to be self-evident: If a company unambiguously states something in an official brochure, a consumer should have a reasonable expectation that the company will stand by that. And if they don't, that they'll either a) give decent warning that the provision will be changed, or b) if confronted with the facts, eat it.

 

RCI has done neither.

 

And "I needed the money" is not a valid excuse for breach of contract. Uh-uh.

 

Actually, basic contract law states that failure of one party to live up to the terms of the contract essentially nullifies the contract. X recognizes that fact and accommodates for it by allowing guests to cancel without penalty if they so choose. They are not required to give "decent warning" or to eat anything, as long as they don't intend to keep your money. That is not the argument here.

 

If people have real, quantifiable damages due to this change (e.g., they have non-refundable flights/hotel stays booked), they should then sue the cruise line for these damages under the principle of "detrimental reliance". That is a different issue.

[shepp]

well obviously then you do not understand how business works - I was just offering my opinion based on the fact that I know this industry - I am done with this thread - you can haggle over $5 per person per day until you are blue in the face if that is what u choose to do - happy sailing to you as well and in my opinion, you need all the coaching on having a good time that money can buy

 

Actually..despite the rather condescending tone of your post, and your announcement that you would no longer grace this thread with your presence...let me assure you that a number of us feel that we "know how business works." In the case of RCI, it has already cheated its customers once, and a court found just that. After all the many CC complaints about lines "nickle and diming," here's a case where many billions of nickels are involved, and where - in the minds of many of us, though ultimately to be decided, it seems, by the courts - contracts were breached. But hey, just relax and get shafted, eh? I have the feeling that if you got ripped off in some store in some port for (in the case of my cruise) $140, you might at least complain to the store. But big business has for many, many years, counted on supine consumers as they go ahead and make shady deals.

 

How's that Enron stock doing?

[shepp]

Actually, basic contract law states that failure of one party to live up to the terms of the contract essentially nullifies the contract. X recognizes that fact and accommodates for it by allowing guests to cancel without penalty if they so choose. They are not required to give "decent warning" or to eat anything, as long as they don't intend to keep your money. That is not the argument here.

 

If people have real, quantifiable damages due to this change (e.g., they have non-refundable flights/hotel stays booked), they should then sue the cruise line for these damages under the principle of "detrimental reliance". That is a different issue.

 

I stand corrected. I'm not a lawyer...don't even play one on TV. Of course, RCI allowing guests who have paid only their deposits to cancel without penalty - the group of pax we're mostly talking about here - is essentially meaningless, since they have that right till final payment date anyway. And as far as I know, RCI isn't saying that's why they're "allowing" that - because they didn't live up to their agreement - but because they're Real Nice. But thanks for clarifying the legal issues. Other actual lawyers' comments on this?

[Drew B]

I stand corrected. I'm not a lawyer...don't even play one on TV. Of course, RCI allowing guests who have paid only their deposits to cancel without penalty - the group of pax we're mostly talking about here - is essentially meaningless, since they have that right till final payment date anyway. And as far as I know, RCI isn't saying that's why they're "allowing" that - because they didn't live up to their agreement - but because they're Real Nice. But thanks for clarifying the legal issues. Other actual lawyers' comments on this?

 

 

I'm not a lawyer, but I lived with my sister while she went through law school, so I picked up some by osmosis...

 

Carnival did not have the provision letting those who had paid-in-full off the hook, but they did let anybody (including those who were beyond final payment) cancel without penalty. That's where they would get into legal trouble - if they forced the customer to live up to their end of the bargain after they'd changed their end... As long as the customer is not expected to pay, the cruise line has no liability on the contract end. The ancillary costs (flights, hotels) may be another story, and there are legal grounds to sue to recoup those if one decides to cancel. However, it would ultimately depend on the judge and jury. You would be risking losing more than the maximum of $70 pp to chase after this sort of settlement...

[JJinVista]

:confused: When I booked my cruise on Oct 31, oil was $94.53 / barrel. Two weeks later, oil was selling for about a dollar a barrel cheaper than when I booked, and Celebrity announced their surcharge!

[Susan-M]

What is the e-mail that I should use if I am a first time Celebrity cruiser?

 

I would use the Captains Club address...they will forward your comments on to the appropriate department.

 

:confused: When I booked my cruise on Oct 31, oil was $94.53 / barrel. Two weeks later, oil was selling for about a dollar a barrel cheaper than when I booked, and Celebrity announced their surcharge!

 

The fuel supplement was based on increasing prices that have occurred over the past few years, as per this part of the explanation on their website,

"The supplement will assist the company in offsetting the widespread increases in fuel prices that have more than doubled in recent years. The supplement will be periodically reviewed, with the intent of being temporary and may be adjusted as fuel prices fluctuate.

[jaxon41]

I'm not a lawyer, but I lived with my sister while she went through law school, so I picked up some by osmosis...

 

Carnival did not have the provision letting those who had paid-in-full off the hook, but they did let anybody (including those who were beyond final payment) cancel without penalty. That's where they would get into legal trouble - if they forced the customer to live up to their end of the bargain after they'd changed their end... As long as the customer is not expected to pay, the cruise line has no liability on the contract end. The ancillary costs (flights, hotels) may be another story, and there are legal grounds to sue to recoup those if one decides to cancel. However, it would ultimately depend on the judge and jury. You would be risking losing more than the maximum of $70 pp to chase after this sort of settlement...

 

That osmosis worked pretty good -- detrimental reliance is a consideration, but the reality of the cost of suing when one has little to gain monetarily, dampens the possibility of a suit -- you are correct. However, the law attempts to adjust for that in certain instances by allowing class action suits. There are some very basic fundamentals in contract law that are being lost, here. The parties to a contract have the right to expect the benefit of their bargain -- allowing one side to cancel when the other side has made a change, does not accomplish that. A contract is a mutual agreement, and one side doesn't get to change it without the agreement of the other. A contract can be void (for example a contract against public policy), or voidable, but the party who is alleged to be the breacher, doesn't get to make that determination. It is also good to remember, as was pointed out by another up thread, that a court will construe the language of a contract more rigorously against the drafter of the contract.

[FinelyCruising]

Ins't what was agreed to the cabin fare and the port taxes? Those did not change.

 

The cruiseline is agreeing to allowing cancellation for the added cost of the surchage without penalty.

 

Based on your overview, how could you argue in court with those givens?

[Jade13]

Ins't what was agreed to the cabin fare and the port taxes? Those did not change.

 

The cruiseline is agreeing to allowing cancellation for the added cost of the surchage without penalty.

 

Based on your overview, how could you argue in court with those givens?

 

They still have not notified about me of the option to cancel and I am booked directly with Celebrity. I went to pay one invoice/cabin on Monday and that is when they told me about the surcharge, but said nothing about being able to cancel...

[jobob]

Ins't what was agreed to the cabin fare and the port taxes? Those did not change.

 

The cruiseline is agreeing to allowing cancellation for the added cost of the surchage without penalty.

 

Based on your overview, how could you argue in court with those givens?

 

They are saying, PAY OR CANCEL. Allowing one to cancel without penalty when most cruises are still within the no penalty cancellation period is not offering anything. Also, provisions were not in the original contract permitting this action.

[drrich2]

This may be redundant, since I see this thread is a combination of 4 & has hit 19 pages & I don't plan to read them all; I'm just posted my current 'real world' experience.

 

My wife & I are taking an adult friend of ours on a mid. February 11 night Ultimate Caribbean Cruise on the Celebrity Constellation in an ocean view family stateroom with veranda (one of those few on the rear of the ship) and we paid our deposit a few weeks ago; my wife went by & paid the balance in full today.

 

The fuel supplement was levied on my wife & I, but not our friend, and the total for that was $110 (all together, not for the wife & I individually).

 

$110. Money, but not as much as I was afraid it'd be.

 

Richard.

[Hflors]

What is the e-mail that I should use if I am a first time Celebrity cruiser? I still need to send a letter now that I have a copy of the original Terms and Conditions (two brochures plus pdf), and original pdf invoice without the surcharge?

 

Did you really call someone a "sucker!" Does Sheila have an e-mail address?

 

IN the orgiinal e-mail I was refering to the advertisement now which refers to you as the star and the reference was that I am a sucker to have been taken by Celebrity since I am unable to cancel.

 

I e-mailed the captain's club and that is after I called Celebrity and complained (on Nov 16th after I tried to pay in full to avoid the fuel surpluss) and told them that it was a underhanded thing to raise the cost of the cruise without letting me or others pay and avoid the extra cost that we didn't sign up for orignally!

[jobob]

This may be redundant, since I see this thread is a combination of 4 & has hit 19 pages & I don't plan to read them all; I'm just posted my current 'real world' experience.

 

My wife & I are taking an adult friend of ours on a mid. February 11 night Ultimate Caribbean Cruise on the Celebrity Constellation in an ocean view family stateroom with veranda (one of those few on the rear of the ship) and we paid our deposit a few weeks ago; my wife went by & paid the balance in full today.

 

The fuel supplement was levied on my wife & I, but not our friend, and the total for that was $110 (all together, not for the wife & I individually).

 

$110. Money, but not as much as I was afraid it'd be.

 

Richard.

 

Were you told you would have to pay the additional $110, when you made your reservation and placed your deposit down? What does your original invoice and contract say? Granted, it may not be much, but was it disclosed to you prior to making the booking?

[FinelyCruising]

They still have not notified about me of the option to cancel and I am booked directly with Celebrity. I went to pay one invoice/cabin on Monday and that is when they told me about the surcharge, but said nothing about being able to cancel...

 

Do they have an email address for you on file? What is the timing of your criuise...I posted few days ago the email I received for everyone's information which might help.

[Jade13]

Do they have an email address for you on file? What is the timing of your criuise...I posted few days ago the email I received for everyone's information which might help.

 

My cruise is mid February. Yes, they have my e-mail. I only get a generated response when a payment is made. Apparently the "Vacation Planner" that I booked with originally left the company (seems the same week - around August) and Celebrity refuses to give you a new one. So the top of my paperwork has a name of someone I was told no longer works for X. I asked about 5 times. They told me it's a commission issue.

 

Btw, one of my bookings I just transfered to a TA I have used before (so Celebrity can make less). But get this. My transfer paperwork was sent a week ago Monday. I just e-mailed the TA to make my payment (with the exception of fuel surcharge) and she e-mailed back that she has been unable to get Celebrity to release my booking. She has been calling every day. I know X knows I made the transfer because I kept one booking with them and made that payment on Monday and they told me (which I knew) that I had to go through the TA to make a payment on the booking with the TA.

 

My TA said the number they keep transfering her to just keeps ringing. What is that about? Also note this TA is with a big on-line Agency and her family always travels on RCCL.

[Jade13]

IN the orgiinal e-mail I was refering to the advertisement now which refers to you as the star and the reference was that I am a sucker to have been taken by Celebrity since I am unable to cancel.

 

I e-mailed the captain's club and that is after I called Celebrity and complained (on Nov 16th after I tried to pay in full to avoid the fuel surpluss) and told them that it was a underhanded thing to raise the cost of the cruise without letting me or others pay and avoid the extra cost that we didn't sign up for orignally!

 

Thanks. I missed the Ad. I also tried to pay on Nov 16th. I have the name of someone who said she was supposed to tell guests they would get an onboard credit.

[FinelyCruising]

Jade there is no doubt that they don't make it easy. I am guessing they have internal conflicts with who you booked with, who your new booking agent is, and the rest of the whole darn thing.

 

Their customer service is second to no-one in the universe. I'm sorry to hear you are going through this.

 

Keep at it and don't quit. I am guessing it will go well for you.

[drrich2]

Were you told you would have to pay the additional $110, when you made your reservation and placed your deposit down? What does your original invoice and contract say? Granted, it may not be much, but was it disclosed to you prior to making the booking?

 

It wasn't a known issue back when we booked. We got a letter in the mail a couple of days ago (we'd been out of town since Wednesday night visiting family, though) notifying us about the charge. I already knew from threads on this forum that it was coming, though, & had told my wife.

 

Richard.

[Jade13]

Jade there is no doubt that they don't make it easy. I am guessing they have internal conflicts with who you booked with, who your new booking agent is, and the rest of the whole darn thing.

 

Their customer service is second to no-one in the universe. I'm sorry to hear you are going through this.

 

Keep at it and don't quit. I am guessing it will go well for you.

 

I am sure the cruise will be fine, but when I do my after cruise review of HAL vs Celebrity, the pre-cruise customer service at Celebrity is :confused:

because of the lack of customer service.

[shepp]

Ins't what was agreed to the cabin fare and the port taxes? Those did not change.

 

Actually, the original language did allow for a surcharge in the case of increased port charges. One might argue that the surcharge is not part of the "fare," but in any case, the clear implication of the brochure language is that full deposit freezes the price of the cruise except for additional charges actually levied against RCI by outside agencies. It's clearly the kind of thing that courts can decide on, but once again, it's worth noting that the contract was changed, post-surcharge, to permit fuel surcharges. SO iff it was part of the deal to start with, why the hurried covering-one's-tale?

[Susan-M]

The fuel supplement was levied on my wife & I, but not our friend, and the total for that was $110 (all together, not for the wife & I individually).

 

$110. Money, but not as much as I was afraid it'd be.

 

The supplement is $5/person/day - and only applies to the first and second guest in a stateroom, with a max. charge of $70 pp.

[jaxon41]

Thanks. I missed the Ad. I also tried to pay on Nov 16th. I have the name of someone who said she was supposed to tell guests they would get an onboard credit.

 

Very interesting as Jimmers over on RCI said his TA told him he would get an obc for the surchage ($140), also, but he hasn't seen it in writing, yet.

[jaxon41]

NCL?? :eek: Comparing NCL to Celebrity is like comparing apples and oranges. Have a great time on NCL. I'd never even consider this line.

 

Since you would never even consider NCL, I wonder how you can say it is comparing apples and oranges?

 

While I prefer X/RCCL, I have sailed NCL, in the mediterranian, last year. I don't care for free style dining, and the necessary accomodations that free style requires in ship design (lots of eating venues, but hardly any dancing areas), but the ship I sailed was beautifully maintained, even if some of the decor was a bit "loud" for my tastes, and my balcony cabin was comparable to the others I have stayed in on X. The stage shows were THE BEST of any I have seen at sea, and since my early adult life was spent in the theatre, I am pretty picky about entertainment.

[SHill64]

Since you would never even consider NCL, I wonder how you can say it is comparing apples and oranges?

 

I've been on about 45 cruises, on 10 different lines. I've done NCL just once and like Carnival, never again. Plus, I've read lots about NCL and their troubles. Yes, NCL and Celebrity both have their faults, but they are apples & oranges.