Fuel Supplement announced (4 merged threads)

[jamie.ford]

All I can say is, if fuel prices go down will be all get a refund?!:mad:

[MDchopper8]

I made my final payment the other day and the fuel charge was tacked on to my balance due. There was no specific line item, just the increase of my balance due.

 

Of coarse the new "terms and conditions" paragraph followed, including:

 

"Carrier reserves the right to impose a supplemental charge relating to unanticipated occurrences including, but not limited to, increases in the price of fuel. Any such supplement charges shall apply to both existing and new bookings (regardless of whether such bookings have been paid in full)."

 

They not only changed the previous conditions that were promised at booking but they are not even adhering to the new conditions in that they now state they will apply the supplement to everyone including "paid in full", but in fact are waiving the fee for them!!!

 

How can we ever trust the cruise line again?

 

To add insult to injury, they offer "one logo item per stateroom" for our understanding. I feel like I'm being treated like the Indians when the pilgrims gave them trinkets for their land, not like a loyal patron.

 

They like us to book early so they don't have to discount the fairs when it gets close to the sail date and cabins are still not sold, but they have just set themselves up for later bookings by removing the incentive to "lock in" the price early.

 

I guess time will tell if they have shot themselves in the foot.

 

[FinelyCruising]

Definitely an issue with many, but my post above was not about the issue of allowing passengers to pay up to avoid the surcharge....it was about the lack of information (in the contract, on the website, or upon booking) re fuel surcharges.

 

I follow what you are saying, but I would suggest for this cruiseline they have a history of not communicating to peoples expectations from time to time. It is clear they have communicated now though, and there is no longer any mystery about what's going to be going on.

[jaxon41]

"They not only changed the previous conditions that were promised at booking but they are not even adhering to the new conditions in that they now state they will apply the supplement to everyone including "paid in full", but in fact are waiving the fee for them!!!"

 

MDchopper,

Yep, looks like you join the crowd of folks who "get it."

[DaveFr]

"Carrier reserves the right to impose a supplemental charge relating to unanticipated occurrences including, but not limited to, increases in the price of fuel. Any such supplement charges shall apply to both existing and new bookings (regardless of whether such bookings have been paid in full)."

 

They not only changed the previous conditions that were promised at booking but they are not even adhering to the new conditions in that they now state they will apply the supplement to everyone including "paid in full", but in fact are waiving the fee for them!!!

Please step back and take a deep breath. The policy quoted above only applies to bookings that have been paid in full after November 15, 2007. It is an accurate statement of Celebrity's policy after November 15, 2007. There is absolutely no indication that Celebrity has changed their policy of waiving fuel surcharges for bookings paid in full prior to November 16, 2007. If that policy had changed, I'm sure we would have heard about it loud and clear.

 

Whether Celebrity had the right to impose a fuel surcharge on cruises where a deposit had been paid prior to November 16, 2007 is an issue for the courts but please, everyone, don't discuss non-existent issues.

 

Dave

[MDchopper8]

I see your point. They've decided to be fair and upfront about the fuel supplement since November 16th. But not retroactively.

[jaxon41]

Please step back and take a deep breath. The policy quoted above only applies to bookings that have been paid in full after November 15, 2007. It is an accurate statement of Celebrity's policy after November 15, 2007. There is absolutely no indication that Celebrity has changed their policy of waiving fuel surcharges for bookings paid in full prior to November 16, 2007. If that policy had changed, I'm sure we would have heard about it loud and clear.

 

Whether Celebrity had the right to impose a fuel surcharge on cruises where a deposit had been paid prior to November 16, 2007 is an issue for the courts but please, everyone, don't discuss non-existent issues.

 

Dave

 

Not into arguing this point, but it is an example of sloppy legal drafting.

 

"Any such supplement charges shall apply to both existing and new bookings (regardless of whether such bookings have been paid in full)."

 

Is the parenthetical applying to new bookings or the entire compounded object of that preposition? ie, existing bookings paid in full as of Nov 16th. This really makes me question the caliber of attorney in their legal department.

 

I understood chopper to be questioning that the phrase indicates existing bookings paid in full as of Nov 16th, would also be charged, which, we know they aren't, and questioned that RCI wasn't even applying their new policy as written. At least that is how I took his comment.

[jlhc99]

I just received an update copy of my invoice from our TA and even though we paid in full on 11/15/07, since the price went down $100pp and we obtained a refund, they have tacked on the $35pp fuel surcharge. Again, not a huge issue to me as we are still saving some $$ in the long run.

 

Back to my original point about people making an issue out of this, I think everyone should remember that Celebrity and RCCL are one parent company operating under different names. Together they have 33 ships which sail all over the world - multiply that by the numbers of total cabins in their fleet(s), then the number of 1st and 2nd passengers who have already paid for/made deposits on cruises open for sale through mid to late 2009 - my point being that the number of current reservations is undoubtedly huge.

 

From a business perspective under these circumstances, to have allowed a "grace" period for people under deposit to make their final payments and avoid the fuel surcharge would have been a logistical nightmare. To save $$ we know almost everyone would have tried to do this. The result would have been chaotic in terms of jammed phone lines, internet being clogged/down, etc. Most certainly everyone (or your TA) would not have been able to get through and get this done, resulting in more frustration for all than the current policy. Not to mention, after the "grace" period expired, the number of people who would surface saying they were never informed of the surcharge.

 

As we all hope fuel prices stabilize or go down, if they do and this surcharge ever goes out of effect, then the amount of people demanding refunds would again have the same chaotic effect.

 

Let's face it folks, whether we like it or not given these huge numbers and the fact that their costs are rising with the fuel, they did the best thing they could under the circumstances. It's your vacation; however it is their business to run.

[FLOURTOWN]

I'm sure the cruise lines lock in a price well in advance for fuel to avoid a problem with rising prices. How do we find out that information. I think all

the cruise lines got together and decided to add this surcharge and use

the fuel as an excuse. If anyone thinks that this surcharge will go away,

they will see that it won't. I'm booked on an 11 night cruise in March and

will not cancel however I will be real careful on what I spend on the ship.

[FinelyCruising]

From a business perspective under these circumstances, to have allowed a "grace" period for people under deposit to make their final payments and avoid the fuel surcharge would have been a logistical nightmare.

 

Most people would not have prepaid to avoid the $140. So the grousng about the condtion for most it is really just empty complaints. I have a cruise booked for 2009....you can bet that I would not have tried to "save" $140 that far out.

 

30-60 days to final payment...in that time range, then maybe it would have been the right thing to do, and forget logistics...they have ships in final payment mode every day of the week. They could have sucked up a few extra calls for this new circimstance.

[Dive Master]

I just received an update copy of my invoice from our TA and even though we paid in full on 11/15/07, since the price went down $100pp and we obtained a refund, they have tacked on the $35pp fuel surcharge. Again, not a huge issue to me as we are still saving some $$ in the long run.

 

Back to my original point about people making an issue out of this, I think everyone should remember that Celebrity and RCCL are one parent company operating under different names. Together they have 33 ships which sail all over the world - multiply that by the numbers of total cabins in their fleet(s), then the number of 1st and 2nd passengers who have already paid for/made deposits on cruises open for sale through mid to late 2009 - my point being that the number of current reservations is undoubtedly huge.

 

From a business perspective under these circumstances, to have allowed a "grace" period for people under deposit to make their final payments and avoid the fuel surcharge would have been a logistical nightmare. To save $$ we know almost everyone would have tried to do this. The result would have been chaotic in terms of jammed phone lines, internet being clogged/down, etc. Most certainly everyone (or your TA) would not have been able to get through and get this done, resulting in more frustration for all than the current policy. Not to mention, after the "grace" period expired, the number of people who would surface saying they were never informed of the surcharge.

 

As we all hope fuel prices stabilize or go down, if they do and this surcharge ever goes out of effect, then the amount of people demanding refunds would again have the same chaotic effect.

 

Let's face it folks, whether we like it or not given these huge numbers and the fact that their costs are rising with the fuel, they did the best thing they could under the circumstances. It's your vacation; however it is their business to run.

 

Yep, and I dont have to use Royal Caribbean International's business to take my vacation.We will be cancelling on 12/6/07 if the unjust price increase (fuel surcharge) is not removed.

[Karynanne]

Yep, and I dont have to use Royal Caribbean International's business to take my vacation.We will be cancelling on 12/6/07 if the unjust price increase (fuel surcharge) is not removed.

 

If your cruise is 12/06/07 (next week), then your final payment would have already been paid...thus you would not be paying the additional fuel charge.

[SHill64]

I think all

the cruise lines got together and decided to add this surcharge and use

the fuel as an excuse.

 

Why do cruise lines have to use the cost of fuel as an excuse to raise the price of cruising? They could have just raised the cost of the cruise for all new bookings and probably made more money in the long run. Sorry, no conspiracy here. IMHO

 

Dive Master, what cruise line will you be booking now? Most are doing the same thing. The phrase, "Cutting your nose off to spite your face" comes to mind. :rolleyes:

[jaxon41]

I just received an update copy of my invoice from our TA and even though we paid in full on 11/15/07, since the price went down $100pp and we obtained a refund, they have tacked on the $35pp fuel surcharge. Again, not a huge issue to me as we are still saving some $$ in the long run.

 

Back to my original point about people making an issue out of this, I think everyone should remember that Celebrity and RCCL are one parent company operating under different names. Together they have 33 ships which sail all over the world - multiply that by the numbers of total cabins in their fleet(s), then the number of 1st and 2nd passengers who have already paid for/made deposits on cruises open for sale through mid to late 2009 - my point being that the number of current reservations is undoubtedly huge.

 

From a business perspective under these circumstances, to have allowed a "grace" period for people under deposit to make their final payments and avoid the fuel surcharge would have been a logistical nightmare. To save $$ we know almost everyone would have tried to do this. The result would have been chaotic in terms of jammed phone lines, internet being clogged/down, etc. Most certainly everyone (or your TA) would not have been able to get through and get this done, resulting in more frustration for all than the current policy. Not to mention, after the "grace" period expired, the number of people who would surface saying they were never informed of the surcharge.

 

As we all hope fuel prices stabilize or go down, if they do and this surcharge ever goes out of effect, then the amount of people demanding refunds would again have the same chaotic effect.

 

Let's face it folks, whether we like it or not given these huge numbers and the fact that their costs are rising with the fuel, they did the best thing they could under the circumstances. It's your vacation; however it is their business to run.

 

Well, if you are content paying the fuel surcharge even though you paid by the deadline -- hey, God bless, and have a great time.

 

But please don't tell anyone else that they did the best they could given the circumstances. While I don't agree with your scenerio of jammed lines if people tried to pay early -- and I would not as I lose more in interest being booked 15 months out -- the easiest, and the simplest, and the least likely to get the AG breathing down your neck, would have been to honor the outstanding contracts, and change them moving forward.

[jaxon41]

I'm sure the cruise lines lock in a price well in advance for fuel to avoid a problem with rising prices. How do we find out that information. I think all

the cruise lines got together and decided to add this surcharge and use

the fuel as an excuse. If anyone thinks that this surcharge will go away,

they will see that it won't. I'm booked on an 11 night cruise in March and

will not cancel however I will be real careful on what I spend on the ship.

 

The line is somewhere around 50% hedged -- data and cites on the RCI thread.

[jaxon41]

Why do cruise lines have to use the cost of fuel as an excuse to raise the price of cruising? They could have just raised the cost of the cruise for all new bookings and probably made more money in the long run. Sorry, no conspiracy here. IMHO

 

Dive Master, what cruise line will you be booking now? Most are doing the same thing. The phrase, "Cutting your nose off to spite your face" comes to mind. :rolleyes:

 

If they just raise fares, they have to pay greater commissions. This fuel surcharge is non-commissionable, and as one of those costs one finds AFTER one finds the base price (that which is usually used in the advertising), it allows the line to, on the surface, look competitive with others.

[FinelyCruising]

If they just raise fares, they have to pay greater commissions. This fuel surcharge is non-commissionable, and as one of those costs one finds AFTER one finds the base price (that which is usually used in the advertising), it allows the line to, on the surface, look competitive with others.

 

That is a dark scenario, not without future merit to some degree than n thenlong run may cost us more to cover commissions...and we ultimately do, but a dark scenario nevertheless since we are all stuck with the increasesd price of fuel at this moment in time.

[jlhc99]

Well, if you are content paying the fuel surcharge even though you paid by the deadline -- hey, God bless, and have a great time.

 

But please don't tell anyone else that they did the best they could given the circumstances. While I don't agree with your scenerio of jammed lines if people tried to pay early -- and I would not as I lose more in interest being booked 15 months out -- the easiest, and the simplest, and the least likely to get the AG breathing down your neck, would have been to honor the outstanding contracts, and change them moving forward.

 

well obviously then you do not understand how business works - I was just offering my opinion based on the fact that I know this industry - I am done with this thread - you can haggle over $5 per person per day until you are blue in the face if that is what u choose to do - happy sailing to you as well and in my opinion, you need all the coaching on having a good time that money can buy

[Dive Master]

Why do cruise lines have to use the cost of fuel as an excuse to raise the price of cruising? They could have just raised the cost of the cruise for all new bookings and probably made more money in the long run. Sorry, no conspiracy here. IMHO

 

Dive Master, what cruise line will you be booking now? Most are doing the same thing. The phrase, "Cutting your nose off to spite your face" comes to mind. :rolleyes:

 

The only "mass market" (affordable) cruise line to handle this manner the right way was Norwegion Cruise Line.They are adding the fuel surcharge to any NEW bookings after 12/1/07.Carnival Corp did mention the possability of a fuel surcharge in their brochures--Royal Caribbean International stated that the cruise price would not change for deposited guest (except for an increase in goverment fees and taxes) so RCI wins the most 'Sleazy" award.I guess NCL get the first opportunity if we cruise again.RCI will not be in the picture as they are not trustworthy.

[jaxon41]

well obviously then you do not understand how business works - I was just offering my opinion based on the fact that I know this industry - I am done with this thread - you can haggle over $5 per person per day until you are blue in the face if that is what u choose to do - happy sailing to you as well and in my opinion, you need all the coaching on having a good time that money can buy

 

My dear fellow Illinoisan -- I am a lawyer; I like the details, arguing them makes me happy!

[SHill64]

The only "mass market" (affordable) cruise line to handle this manner the right way was Norwegion Cruise Line.They are adding the fuel surcharge to any NEW bookings after 12/1/07.Carnival Corp did mention the possability of a fuel surcharge in their brochures--Royal Caribbean International stated that the cruise price would not change for deposited guest (except for an increase in goverment fees and taxes) so RCI wins the most 'Sleazy" award.I guess NCL get the first opportunity if we cruise again.RCI will not be in the picture as they are not trustworthy.

 

NCL?? :eek: Comparing NCL to Celebrity is like comparing apples and oranges. Have a great time on NCL. I'd never even consider this line.

[Steamboatin]

We have a 14 day transatlantic cruise on the Carnival Freedom. So that is an extra $140.

 

OK, now consider that we are only paying $938 for an aft extended balcony on that 14 day transatlantic cruise via Carnival's military pricing. So I am paying only $67 a day per cruise day.

 

Heck I can eat that much.:D

 

So now I am paying $72 per day with the added fuel charge. Still a big bargin.

 

And again I still can eat that much.:D

 

So Carnival is still loosing money on our 14 day cruise even with the extra fuel charge.

 

Certainly at a daily cruising rate of $72 per day at that per day price I would opt to cruise forever.:D

[Jade13]

I just received an update copy of my invoice from our TA and even though we paid in full on 11/15/07, since the price went down $100pp and we obtained a refund, they have tacked on the $35pp fuel surcharge. Again, not a huge issue to me as we are still saving some $$ in the long run.

 

.

 

You paid in full on 11/15. You are not supposed to have a fuel surcharge.

[Hflors]

I thought I would share this with you all. I am surprised that they indicated theat there would be a further response. But who knows.

 

Dear Mr. and Mrs. XXXXX

 

Thank you for your inquiry regarding our recent announcement about a fuel supplement.

 

As you can imagine, we have received numerous inquiries regarding this subject. We are currently reviewing all inquiries, recommendations, and suggestions that we have received and will be responding as soon as possible. You can expect a follow up response shortly.

 

Thank you for your continued patience.

 

Thank you for choosing Celebrity Cruises.

 

Sheila Whedon

Customer Service Representative

 

 

 

-----Original Message-----

 

From: 11/19/2007 12:20:55 PM

To: <captainsclub@celebrity.com>

Subject: Celebrity Logo Item.

 

 

Dear Captains club. You can tell Mr. Brian Rice that he is welcome to keep his lousy logo Item. Im sure its not worth the amount that Celebrity is squeezing out of me for their fuel surcharge! Im sure when I board my cruise I will feel just like your commercial advertises Staring you Sucker!

[Susan-M]

I thought I would share this with you all. I am surprised that they indicated that there would be a further response. But who knows.

 

If they don't have an answer (which they didn't), they have a problem.