Has anyone attempted to dispute the fuel surcharge on their Credit Card?

[firefly333]

I bought a dress on Ebay and disputed this with Paypal because I never received the dress. The seller gave Paypal a number from the Post office that showed the post office delivered a package to my town but not my zip code and claimed this "proved" the seller had sent me the dress.

 

so I contacted the post office to see where this dress was delivered and I learned from them that no record of address is recorded at the delivery just the zipcode-unless the sender pays extra for a a signature delivery. The post office also said it was highly unlikely that it had simply been delivered to the wrong address because mail is bundled by zipcode. The post office sdid it could be mistakenly delivered to the wrong address within the SAME zipcode -but a differant zipcode- unlikely. Even though I forwarded the post office's response to Pay pal-they still stood by their decision.

 

so I opened a dispute with American Express and they could do nothing-they said my gripe was with Paypal and the seller on Ebay not them. so that is why I said it doe snot hurt to open a dispute but that does not mean you will get your money back.

 

Amercian Express is not going to refund money just because you have been treated unfairly by seller. If they did that I guess they would go bankrupt.

 

Actually, Paypal is a horse of another color. When you signed up for paypal, the terms you agreed to in order to join said you would not hold Paypal responsible for either delivery OR condition of any items you bought on ebay.

 

Also, the problem is paypal is a 3rd party merchant, i.e. you bought from a seller on ebay and then paid Paypal. Whomever you paid is the merchant the way FCBA has set up the dispute process, so Amex cannot by law contact the seller you did business with.

 

We at Amex fought for several years to start holding paypal responsible because we had so many unhappy people who did not realize the chance they took by dealing with a 3rd party merchant and the situation is much better.

 

However, lastly, if you use the USPS as your delivery source, they tracking system only proves it was delivered to your post office, not to your home. I had that happen. I personally had something the seller insisted on delivering via USPS and I was in Texas when paypal had the confirmation it had been delivered to me in Florida and I knew darn well it had not and talked to my post man and thats why I knew USPS tracking only tracks to your post office for a fact.

 

If you choose a shipper such as UPS and buy direct from a merchant you will ALWAYS be protected by Amex. period. Dont ever allow USPS to deliver a package or use a 3rd party to pay when you bought from someone else, it is very difficult to charge back paypal who has already paid the seller, so paypal is left holding the bag. We have worked very hard over the past few years to improve this situation where you clicked to agree not to hold paypal liable for delivery.

[firefly333]

I totally agree. I have been with Amex for over a decade and is my card of choice. It irks me to no end when people use credit card companies as a scape goat which ultimately affects not only earnings but future rates and the ever-tightening credit card disclosures. When you need Amex they will be there for you. But don't use them to resolve every dispute that can or should be handled directly with the merchant.

 

Besides, there is only a 60-day window once a charge posts in which it can be disputed. By waiting until after the cruise in February, OP's friend would not have a leg to stand on if final payment was made in November.

 

With increased gas prices, my midsize SUV took an EXTRA $35 to fill up this month alone. I wish this could have gone to fuel surcharges on a new cruise instead of in my tank!

 

Do the right thing and pay the fee.

 

How many disputes a merchant has also affects the discount rate they pay to charge on the Amex card, so its a big deal to merchants as well. Yes, there are many who take advantage of their right to dispute any charge, they lie and think we dont know and dispute charges just to avoid paying them, because (again by law) we cannot bill the disputed charge while the dispute is open.

 

Im afraid as far as what you say about you have to open a dispute within 2 months to get the charges back, that is not quite right. A merchant (again by law) has to be contacted by the credit card company within 180 days (almost 6 months and believe me there were times we were going, 30 days has Sept, April etc to count the exact days). As long as the merchant was contacted within 180 days they can be charged back. I think the phone reps probably try to discourage opening disputes after so many days but just be persistent, you can open one after 2 months, even if you have to put it in writing. There are a few exceptions that extend the 180 day rule, like a bride who orders a dress for a wedding a year for now so delivery is not within the 180 days.

 

We had to know every little part of the laws, Amex only hired college grads for the job as dispute rep when I was there, I have a MBA. It still takes approx 9 months where they had mentors looking over our shoulder before we can close all our own disputes, it is that complicated. And that was with only learning one industry. Services (mostly online disputes such as ebay) was my first industry with lodging and later restaurants being my secondary industry, so I learned and did travel related disputes as well, just mostly services. The class before us learned airlines for instance another very difficult industry because of all the laws they had to learn. Disputes is much more complicated than folks understand....like the ebay example, folks never read the terms and conditions they clicked to agree to, be we read them and often they handcuffed us and we had to fight for our CMS and go to our bosses to try to make the CMs happy and a equitable resolution, such as a large write off, larger than I was allowed on my own.

[GottaLuvCruising]

My plane ticket didn't go up....and I know that for a fact would be hit by the fuel costs....

 

Agreed! Any fuel surcharge on your plane ticket (or pizza delivery, or UPS shipment, etc) would have been included AT THE TIME OF PURCHASE. The issue (regardless of those folks who choose to ignore it, roll over, play dead and accept the cruise lines' actions) is that they adjusted the fare (essentially) after the cruise was confirmed.

[BILLP1]

Bicker.

Your facts about fuel futures or lack of facts are wrong..

 

As major players in the fuel market , the cruise lines were well aware of the Mid East problems and what was being written buy Fuel Market Brokers since 2005 concerming fuel futures.

 

Google fuel futures and read what they had to say.. The cruuise lines desire to keep fares artifically low knowing that if fuel rose to estimated levels that they could just pass on the costs to the customers.

 

They did and will continue doing it...

[Palm_trees]

Alot of you guys have incorrect information. If a dispute goes to my friends way the credit card will not pay the vendor. American Express loses nothing.

[cruiserbryce]

Agreed! Any fuel surcharge on your plane ticket (or pizza delivery, or UPS shipment, etc) would have been included AT THE TIME OF PURCHASE. The issue (regardless of those folks who choose to ignore it, roll over, play dead and accept the cruise lines' actions) is that they adjusted the fare (essentially) after the cruise was confirmed.

 

I am hazy on the details but if the cruise was completly paid off did they still add the surcharge? If not then the cruise not being completly paid for may be their wiggle room in the contract providing them ability to add the charge...and I still think that disputing charges of goods you have consumed is dishonest...

[GeckoGirl]

Alot of you guys have incorrect information. If a dispute goes to my friends way the credit card will not pay the vendor. American Express loses nothing.

 

My question is...if they charged it to the credit card in November and your friend disputes the charge after the cruise in February, wouldn't the cruise line have already been paid in November? Will the credit card company have to request the money back from the cruise line?? If so then would they lose the money if the cruise line refuses to refund it.

 

Anyone know if this would be the case??

[GottaLuvCruising]

My question is...if they charged it to the credit card in November and your friend disputes the charge after the cruise in February, wouldn't the cruise line have already been paid in November? Will the credit card company have to request the money back from the cruise line?? If so then would they lose the money if the cruise line refuses to refund it.

 

Anyone know if this would be the case??

 

The cruise line will refund any recalled monies from AmEx because of their agreement / relationship with them (and wanting to continue it). But there is a time frame for disputes (1st concern) AND this person essentially agrees to the fee by putting it on her card, then taking the cruise (2nd concern). He / she won't get away with disputing the charge (and should not attempt to do so).

 

The most productive step is to cancel the cruise if possible. If not, file a complaint with Florida's AG. We're just hoping the surcharge is deemed to be unlawful since it clearly violates the decision in 1997.

[Wylie Coyote]

I totally agree. I have been with Amex for over a decade and is my card of choice. It irks me to no end when people use credit card companies as a scape goat which ultimately affects not only earnings but future rates and the ever-tightening credit card disclosures. When you need Amex they will be there for you. But don't use them to resolve every dispute that can or should be handled directly with the merchant.

 

Besides, there is only a 60-day window once a charge posts in which it can be disputed. By waiting until after the cruise in February, OP's friend would not have a leg to stand on if final payment was made in November.

 

With increased gas prices, my midsize SUV took an EXTRA $35 to fill up this month alone. I wish this could have gone to fuel surcharges on a new cruise instead of in my tank!

 

Do the right thing and pay the fee.

 

Just a question about STICKING IT to the credit card company.....

 

Then why does American Express make such an issue in their Lit that disputing charges is such a big deal for them for their card holders? I mean, they practically come out and say, if you don't get what you paid for or if you are ripped off, let them take care of it and reverse the charges...as I remember...up to 3 per year without hesitation or question.

 

I have never disputed a charge with them, but it is a big reason I have and use the card. Sense of security in case something happens with an unsavory merchant.

 

AMEX has no problem charging me for their annual credit card fee for their services....which includes the right to dispute.

 

Just my thought. I think they are great...but they send too much crap in the mail and emails, even if you have opted out of the sales pitches and notifications. :rolleyes:

 

Now back to the original thread....

[barante]

I understand what everyone is saying but this is insane. Anyone challenging fuel surcharges is likely to incur legal costs that will far exceed any singular or group surcharges. And they will not win in court.

That said, anyone who will challenge surcharges, please let me know on what cruises you will be so that I can avoid you. Nothing personal, but you will be one unhappy bunch if you go on a cruise in a foul mood.

[firefly333]

Just a question about STICKING IT to the credit card company.....

 

Then why does American Express make such an issue in their Lit that disputing charges is such a big deal for them for their card holders? I mean, they practically come out and say, if you don't get what you paid for or if you are ripped off, let them take care of it and reverse the charges...as I remember...up to 3 per year without hesitation or question.

 

I have never disputed a charge with them, but it is a big reason I have and use the card. Sense of security in case something happens with an unsavory merchant.

 

AMEX has no problem charging me for their annual credit card fee for their services....which includes the right to dispute.

 

Just my thought. I think they are great...but they send too much crap in the mail and emails, even if you have opted out of the sales pitches and notifications. :rolleyes:

 

Now back to the original thread....

 

FAIR and FCBA laws are in place that guarantee your right to dispute any charge. That being said, Amex has no choice in the matter, they have to allow you to dispute charges, its your right, its the law, its not because Amex is nice.

 

I have to say we tried to go over and above to make CMs happy within what we could do, we were proud of the job we did and loved to help people, but we were not there because its a advertising ploy, its the law.

 

I agree they send too much crap in the mail. I keep saying Im going to cancel my card from Amex which I never use and just keep forgetting. They obviously put me on a list to get crap offers about credit cards I guess. I only use my Bank of America RCI card.

 

I hate the fuel surcharges, I got hit with two on cruises I had booked far in advance. Im not saying I think the fuel surcharges were right to be added to already booked cruises, I think they should only have added them to new bookings and been fair.

[tiyana4]

Im afraid as far as what you say about you have to open a dispute within 2 months to get the charges back, that is not quite right. A merchant (again by law) has to be contacted by the credit card company within 180 days (almost 6 months and believe me there were times we were going, 30 days has Sept, April etc to count the exact days). As long as the merchant was contacted within 180 days they can be charged back. I think the phone reps probably try to discourage opening disputes after so many days but just be persistent, you can open one after 2 months, even if you have to put it in writing. There are a few exceptions that extend the 180 day rule, like a bride who orders a dress for a wedding a year for now so delivery is not within the 180 days.

 

The only reason I say 60 days to dispute is because of a recent situation with a magazine vendor in which a dispute was denied. Last September I signed up for an annual subscription for Cruise Travel with Mags for Less. I was told upfront that the delivery would not start for 10-12 weeks and if I had any problems to get in touch with them.

 

Needless to say, after 3 months and no magazines, I tried to get in touch with the company......no customer service support via phone or email. The # provided on the billing statment went unanswered. After numerous attempts, I contacted Amex. I was told that because the dispute was older than 60 days that a dispute could not be opened. It was only $10 but I took it as a lesson learned.

[rlmac1001]

However, if you read the details on the surcharge (summarized from CC news article below) , it states that it effects bookings made on or after 12/1/07.

 

I booked with Carnival and paid in full back in July 07 for a cruise in Feb 08. I received a letter telling me about the new fuel surcharge I have been charged.It said I could pay by credit card, go online or call to pay it. I then received a phone call in Nov.07 from them asking me if I wanted to go head and pay it now.

 

I asked about the new charge and when it went into effect. They said for cruises setting sail Feb 2nd 08. I asked about those that had already been bought and paid in full in 07, I was told sorry but your cruise sets sail Feb 18th.

 

Has anyone heard of this??? Any thing I can do to try to get my money back. That is 80.00 more than we thought it was going to be... well not counting our bar tab...lol but that 80.00 would buy a few more drinks!!!

[dforeigner]

Hopefully the cruise line will not cancel your friend's reservation based on this unfair claim. The reason the cruise lines added a fuel surcharge instead of just raising the price of the fare is in order to be able to collect from every single passenger. The airlines also have a fuel surcharge, just like UPS, DHL, etc.

[bUU]

As major players in the fuel market , the cruise lines were well aware of the Mid East problems and what was being written buy Fuel Market Brokers since 2005 concerming fuel futures.

The point was that they didn't know that fuel prices were going to increase as fast as they did at the precise time that they did.

[GottaLuvCruising]

The airlines also have a fuel surcharge, just like UPS, DHL, etc.

 

NOT RETROACTIVELY!!! Those were added at the time of purchase. Big difference.

[bUU]

I have had an airline collect a surcharge from passengers at the gate. (This was back in the 1980s.) I believe that's still in the contracts as something they could do if they had reason to.

[firefly333]

The only reason I say 60 days to dispute is because of a recent situation with a magazine vendor in which a dispute was denied. Last September I signed up for an annual subscription for Cruise Travel with Mags for Less. I was told upfront that the delivery would not start for 10-12 weeks and if I had any problems to get in touch with them.

 

Needless to say, after 3 months and no magazines, I tried to get in touch with the company......no customer service support via phone or email. The # provided on the billing statment went unanswered. After numerous attempts, I contacted Amex. I was told that because the dispute was older than 60 days that a dispute could not be opened. It was only $10 but I took it as a lesson learned.

 

Like I said if insisting didnt work, then write in and explain why you didnt open the dispute earlier. You were well within your rights. Or call back, this is not a rule, just a phone rep trying to get out of setting up a dispute. Sometimes you are required to put it in writing after 60 days, I ran into that with VISA. They wouldnt open a dispute via phone after the charge is so old. Tell the phone rep there is no such dispute rule and you can quote me. For $10 we would have written off the charge and closed the dispute.

[zqvol]

If your relative lives in Flordia orwishes to spend the money to go to Flordia to fight the issue they might prevail but it is guaranteed to costs them many hours of time and a lot of headache over a little bit of money.

 

The surcharges are here, they are going to stay and if you don't like them then don't cruise.

[blindrid]

Troll alert !!!!!!

 

Anyone with ethics would not dispute a charge like that and the troll loves posting negative, PITA questions.......

[sweetnovember]

We booked and paid in full in 10/07. we did not see anything about the surcharge. we are going on carnival holiday on 2/7/08. We had to make a seperate payment to pay the surcharge. I completely understand that fuel costs alot. Cruising is a wonderful and very inexpensive way to travel. As everyone that cruises knows you get lots for the money. However, our cruise was paid in full and I do not believe that it is correct to send us a bill for more money after everything was handled. It is like booking a hotel room in advance having it paid for and then having to pay another bill for it. The cruise lines should have put the increase into the price of the cruise for all the cruises upon booking.

[cruiserbryce]

Anyone with ethics would not dispute a charge like that and the troll loves posting negative

 

 

yup...:)

[momofmeg]

We booked and paid in full in 10/07. we did not see anything about the surcharge. we are going on carnival holiday on 2/7/08. We had to make a seperate payment to pay the surcharge. I completely understand that fuel costs alot. Cruising is a wonderful and very inexpensive way to travel. As everyone that cruises knows you get lots for the money. However, our cruise was paid in full and I do not believe that it is correct to send us a bill for more money after everything was handled. It is like booking a hotel room in advance having it paid for and then having to pay another bill for it. The cruise lines should have put the increase into the price of the cruise for all the cruises upon booking.

 

Our tA contacted us within 2 days of the announcement back in NOV to let us know we could cancel our crusie and get a full refund. since most would not have had to pay in full for their crusie yet as thsi took effect Feb.1 and you are reqwired to be paid in full about 10 weeks before a cruise-everyone had ample time to cnacel their crusie without having to pay a penalty.

 

My guess is the same was true for you but if you ignored you TA's phone call and didi not return it or failed to read an e-mail from them-then that is your fault. Our TA said we had a week to make up our minds in which we could cancel our cruise and receive a FULL refund .

 

Guys, why can't we give this a rest. The OP has not even come back-as I am pretty sure they were booted off here once again.