I'm Waiting for the First Cruise Ship that .....

[zorrosuncle]

Greetings --

I'm waiting for the first cruise ship that has been designed exclusively for solo travelers traveling alone or that has genuine single cabins. The so-called single supplement is a sham. It basically shifts costs to the solo traveler; otherwise you would see smaller rooms. Years ago, they had genuine single cabins. My college dorm room was much smaller than the cruise ship cabins and I was able to get by. In the meanwhile I will try other travel options that aren't willing to rip me off and that will provide a relationship with me that isnt defined as an oligopoly. Hope my favorite restaurant doesn't start charging me for the dinner companion who isn't there -- if you catch my drift (no pun intended). The cruise ship industry is telling me that because they offer me more space, that I also eat more and spend less. Marketing 101 prof -- Helloooooo.

 

Zorrosuncle

[IwannaGo Now]

Me too!! ROFLMAO!!...about paying for "dinner companion who isn't there".

 

I still don't understand the "single supplement" logic. I eat half as much...maybe less because I'm happy with a burger at lunch, and often buffets for dinner, when by myself. I use half the water, half the towels, soap, etc. I probably spend more time in the casino because no body is nagging me to go to a show, or dinner. Yet I pay usually double, and also double the "fuel charge", and port charges.

Resort hotels do the same thing....charge PPDO.

I was looking for three, or four cruises in 08, but now am thinking like you...maybe I'll just travel to cities, foreign, or domestic, get a hotel and spend my money there....still plenty of places in the USA I haven't toured.

[kitty9]

You have to look at it this way---if they sold all their cabins to singles, who would only pay the first person rate, they would lose a lot of money. And then there's the whole issue of the workers losing out on their gratuities when it's only singles in a cabin. There is absolutely no way to have an all single ship as we would have to pay thousands per cruise to make the line profitable. I'm not a fan of the single supplement, but there's nothing that can be done either you pay it or you don't cruise. Personally, I prefer a cruise to a solo land vacation anytime. BTW, you're never going to see a restaurant charging single supplements. You're comparing apples to avocados with that one. But I have had European hotels charge me double for their rooms---never had that happen in the US.

 

BTW, if you're paying double fuel surcharges and double the port taxes, you need a new travel agent as you're getting ripped off. You NEVER pay double port charges as a single and the cruise line's charge for the fuel supplement is per person, not per cabin, so you do not pay double the fuel supplement.

[jp2001]

Hotels work the same way, the price for 1 or 2 people is usually the same, you cannot compare a cruise to a restaurant, more to a hotel.

 

I think a 175% supplement would be more appropriate than the 200% they are asking for (true that a solo traveller will eat less, take less towels, etc.).

[BruceMuzz]

Unfortunately Cruise Lines are not charitable organizations, but large corporations, trying to make profits for their shareholders.

 

Quite frankly, the cruise lines don't care how much you eat or don't eat. They spend so little money on your food that it really doesn't matter.

 

Your cruise fare essentially pays for the fuel to transport you and the mortgage on the ship, and not much else.

 

But they do care very much about how much you spend onboard. Depending on the cruise line, the average passenger spends between $50 and $90 per day after they get onboard. That's where their profit is. If you occupy a cabin that was designed for 2 or more passengers, the cruise line is losing between $50 and $90 per day in profits for every passenger who is not in that cabin.That's why you are paying a supplement - and they are still losing money on having you there.

 

You are far better off to take a land-based holiday - or find a friend to cruise with you. The cruise lines are hoping for the same thing.

[zorrosuncle]

The reality is that only about 11 per cent of costs are actually fixed costs. It might be appropriate to allocate these costs on a square footage basis. However, the remaining 89 per cent of the costs are variable. These include actual operating costs, food, fuel, housekeeping, etc. It would be reasonable to allocate these on a per passenger basis.

 

The cruise ships get away with the single supplement because they use a non-GAAP concept (non-generally accepted accounting principle) called ALDB -- available lower berth days to report net revenue and net costs. They claim that it is a generally accepted industry practice -- but when one considers that the number of mega corporations actually controlling the cruise industry is counted on one hand -- a defacto oligopoly, one can question why all this goes unchallenged. One has to wonder why not one of those major cruise lines wishes to change their pricing concept! The ADLB concept blatantly assumes that all cabins sold have two occupants, and they then allocate all expenses -- fixed and variable on a head count whether incurred by the passenger or not.

 

You won't read about this concept in the glossy annual reports that these companies issue; but you will find it in the much more detailed 10-K reports required by the SEC and sworn to by the chief officers of a company as required by law.

 

And by the way -- many cruise lines are actually doubling those port charges which are actually not port charges and designed to add to the non-discounted , non-commissionable amount, thus lowering travel agencies fees.

 

The fact that there are just a few mega corporations controlling almost 95 per cent of the cruise industry should be viewed by government as non-competitive and allowing them to have unfair pricing mechanisms in place that do not reflect true costs per passenger but are designed only to increase revenues by allocating costs to the single passenger that he did not incur and then pricing on that basis . GAAP procedures should be in place and oligopolic situations should not be allowed.

 

Zorrosuncle

[BruceMuzz]

With apologies to Groucho Marx, It's too bad that the people who really know how to run this country are so busy cutting hair, driving taxicabs, and being Zorros's Uncle.

[hawgwildterry]

With apologies to Groucho Marx, It's too bad that the people who really know how to run this country are so busy cutting hair, driving taxicabs, and being Zorros's Uncle.

 

Well stated BruceMuzz.

 

[RI-Sailor]

Interesting...(well at least to accountant..:o ).

 

Without looking at any annual or 10-K reports I would think that fuel and payroll would be the biggest costs. While they are not fixed costs, they are not the easiest to reduce. I can't say that the cruiselines would get return passengers if they said "Well, we told you we planned to go to Hawaii, but to save fuel on this trip, we're only going halfway!" or "Sorry, we didn't have enough fares for this trip, so we laid off 6 cabin attendants, so you'll have to make up your own bunk".

 

And we certainly don't want them to lay off their accounting staff! :D :eek:

[zorrosuncle]

Greetings -- Looking at one well-managed company, I find that the direct cruise costs are approximately 70 per cent of the company's total expenses -- the rest being head office expenses such as depreciation, selling and administrative, etc.

 

Looking at the 70 percent that is direct cruise related totaling to 100 percent of the 70 percent, I find that the biggest expense is agency commissions, transportation and insurance at 27 percent, other at 24 percent, payroll at 18 percent, fuel at 14 percent, food at 10 percent and onboard expenses at 7 percent.

 

My issue of course is the socking of the solo traveler with a disproportionate share of these costs. I know this issue is of great concern to the solo members of this board, because a few threads down from this post is one where over 22,000 board members viewed a post on how to find single supplement bargains.

 

Zorrosuncle

[Go-Bucks!]

This may be too simplistic, but wouldn't they make the same amount of money if they had single rooms that were 1/2 the size of the regular ones? Then a single would not take anymore space than if there were 2 in a room twice the size.

 

Personally, I prefer to travel solo on land - my favorite being Europe, except now the Euro exchange rate is so bad. I've been able to find very reasonable single hotel rooms (or in Italy, in convents) and then the rest of the cost (flying, eating, touring) is all single costs.

 

I also think the single supplement is a rip, but if I do go on a cruise or group tour, I won't pay more than 150%. I would, on the other hand, rather pay a supplement than be "matched" with another stranger to stay with. I did this once and it was a disaster!!! It would have been worth paying the supplement rather than being with this person for 2 weeks! :(

[RI-Sailor]

At one point someone had posted an idea about using less space for solo travelers by setting up cabins that shared a bathroom. The majority who responded didn't like the idea of sharing a bath with a complete stranger.

[zorrosuncle]

This may be too simplistic, but wouldn't they make the same amount of money if they had single rooms that were 1/2 the size of the regular ones? Then a single would not take anymore space than if there were 2 in a room twice the size.

 

Personally, I prefer to travel solo on land - my favorite being Europe, except now the Euro exchange rate is so bad. I've been able to find very reasonable single hotel rooms (or in Italy, in convents) and then the rest of the cost (flying, eating, touring) is all single costs.

 

I also think the single supplement is a rip, but if I do go on a cruise or group tour, I won't pay more than 150%. I would, on the other hand, rather pay a supplement than be "matched" with another stranger to stay with. I did this once and it was a disaster!!! It would have been worth paying the supplement rather than being with this person for 2 weeks! :(

I too think that is the fairest solution. Have smaller cabins for single passengers like they used to years back and price the square footage accordingly with all other costs based on a per person rate that is the same for everyone. To sock it to the single passenger is blatant discrimination, and I am surprised that a class action suit has not been brought already. I don't tolerate discrimination anywhere.

 

I believe according to statistics that single people in our great country are about equal in number to married couples -- why discriminate. Do they do it with their own employees????? Makes one wonder.

 

Zorrosuncle

[jp2001]

At one point someone had posted an idea about using less space for solo travelers by setting up cabins that shared a bathroom. The majority who responded didn't like the idea of sharing a bath with a complete stranger.

 

That was me. I still think it would be a good compromise to pay the regular per person price without sharing a room. Here is the plan I had in mind.

[jp2001]

That was me. I still think it would be a good compromise to pay the regular per person price without sharing a room. Here is the plan I had in mind.

 

Obviously, they would need some sort of special lock for the bathroom to ensure one cannot enter the other's room and also that he can't lock the bathroom indefinitely (maybe 20 minutes max, seems like enough to take a shower).

[Lois R]

I have been living on my own for close to 30 years now.......

sharing a bathroom is not something that appeals to me....then

again, I am in the group that just prefers to pay the supplement

and not share a cabin either.

 

I love sailing solo and it is the best vacation for my $$$.

I guess it just depends on each person and what is best

for them individually.

I much prefer cruising~I get to know the staff, crew, other passengers,

etc....plus all my meals are included in the price:) And I have seen lots

of new places!

 

There are vacations for all of us...land, sea, whatever each of us prefers.

Different strokes for different folks:)

[claud925]

And then there's the whole issue of the workers losing out on their gratuities when it's only singles in a cabin.

 

Whenever I cruise solo (which is just about every time), I always double the gratuities to the cabin attendant and his/her assistant, as well as the butler (when I'm in a suite). No reason why they should come up short for that particular cabin just because I'm in there by myself...

 

In the dining room, however, my waiter and his assistant will get a solo person's gratuity (with extra thrown in if they were wonderful, which they always are :D ), because I'm at a table that is already occupied to its maximum capacity.

 

Others may handle it differently - just telling it my way.:)

[agabbymama]

Isn't there a company out there called EasyCruise? Or something like that. I thought they had cabins for singles, and you even pay for meals, cleaning, etc. as you go?

 

That might solve the problem if you really wanted to cruise but not pay the single supplement. I haven't cruised them, and don't really know much about them at all, but might be worth looking into.

 

http://www.easycruise.com/gb/itineraries/classical-greece.asp

 

They have a 7 day to the Greek Islands that sounds interesting, and it sure is a lot more affordable than the 12 day I'm taking on Princess. Ha Ha Ha

[Faith77]

Just MHO...

 

I think solo cruising is a pretty ok deal IF one books inside cabins at times when kids are in school on 'single friendly' lines like HAL and Carnival.

 

I do both land trips and cruises. Maybe the ss is better on land trips, but I find that the overall price of a trip is compariable to a cruise. I did a land trip to Italy in 2007 and the Euro vs $ was shocking. A small personal pizza and light coke in Venice in a small sidewalk cafe was around $22.

 

So a one week cruise for around $1,000 sounds pretty good to me. Right now I'm looking at Alaska in May.

 

Faith

[Lois R]

Just MHO...

 

I think solo cruising is a pretty ok deal IF one books inside cabins at times when kids are in school on 'single friendly' lines like HAL and Carnival.

 

I do both land trips and cruises. Maybe the ss is better on land trips, but I find that the overall price of a trip is compariable to a cruise. I did a land trip to Italy in 2007 and the Euro vs $ was shocking. A small personal pizza and light coke in Venice in a small sidewalk cafe was around $22.

 

So a one week cruise for around $1,000 sounds pretty good to me. Right now I'm looking at Alaska in May.

 

Faith

 

Hi Faith:) I agree with you 110% or 200%;) whatever

the case may be....

Alaska will probably run you more than a grand but after I did it,

(back in the summer of 2006) I felt like it was worth every penney

I paid:)

[lvtotrvl1]

Greetings -- Looking at one well-managed company, I find that the direct cruise costs are approximately 70 per cent of the company's total expenses -- the rest being head office expenses such as depreciation, selling and administrative, etc.

 

Looking at the 70 percent that is direct cruise related totaling to 100 percent of the 70 percent, I find that the biggest expense is agency commissions, transportation and insurance at 27 percent, other at 24 percent, payroll at 18 percent, fuel at 14 percent, food at 10 percent and onboard expenses at 7 percent.

 

My issue of course is the socking of the solo traveler with a disproportionate share of these costs. I know this issue is of great concern to the solo members of this board, because a few threads down from this post is one where over 22,000 board members viewed a post on how to find single supplement bargains.

 

Zorrosuncle

 

Please let us know where these figures come from. Thank-you.

[Faith77]

Nice to talk to you again. When is your next Celebrity cruise?

 

I've actually been to Alaska twice before. The first time (my first cruise) was two weeks on a 51 year old ship and we went from Vancouver to Seward and back to Vancouver. This cruise helped me fall in loving with cruising.

My second Alaska cruise was on the Star Princess in her first year.

 

So now I'm looking at different ships for May. I like May in Alaska. Not too many families and the weather has been look to me (so far).

 

Faith

[Lois R]

Hi Faith, I leave in about 7 weeks:D for 10 nights on one of those

older ships you mentioned;)

I am heading to San Juan on Galaxy for my 50th birthday. Seeing

new places and am really looking forward to it.

The ship is 12 years old. Some would call that verrrryyy old.......

or we could say just like us, not getting older, just getting better:)

[celebhol]

My pet peeve is looking at the cruise line website for a cruise and having nothing come up if I put in one passenger, then if I change it to two the screen fills up with cruises I want to take. The cabins are either available or they are not but they don't even show them if they think there's only one cruiser.

[Lois R]

My pet peeve is looking at the cruise line website for a cruise and having nothing come up if I put in one passenger, then if I change it to two the screen fills up with cruises I want to take. The cabins are either available or they are not but they don't even show them if they think there's only one cruiser.

 

Hi, wow, I have never had that problem before.

I always look for the cabin category, which comes up first....

then the pricing comes up. I put in (1) and it breaks it down.

I book directly with the cruiseline and it always gives me the price.