Pushy Sommelier

[drfun48]

I hope this is not an agressive new strategy. After 22 Celebrity cruises ,I had my first really negative experience with a sommelier.

In addition to always "suggesting" most expensive wines at every dinner( I usually bought in the $60-80 range)the sommelier was hawking all the wine related events.I've been to the wine tastings,wine blendings,and wine pairings multiple times and there is no need to repeat these events-I made it clear that I wasn't interested yet he was persistant.

More emphaticly he pushed a wine glass selling event ,which cost I believe about 50 or 70 dollars. The claim for this you get a valuable parting gift, I understand these glasses sell for over $70 a piece.

He only left me alone when I fabricated a story that I had a private German wine glass maker, who creates custom parabolic glasses for me to enhance the bouquet.

I don't mind information or even paid for events ,but this man spent so much time selling it was like an infomercial and my table for two felt like a table for three.

He was the first wine steward that I did not give a bonus tip to at the end of the cruise. I'm sure he was just doing as instructed but I found it quite annoying.

[spearmint]

On our recent cruise, our sommelier mentioned the wine tasting, and the four of us signed up for it. On other nights he brought up wine pairing and the wine-enhancing glass. Both times, we simply said we were not interested and he did not bring it up again. We had no problem with that. He was not in the least pushy, but wasn't retiscent in introducing them either, so much so that it did not occur to me until I read your post, that I do not recall this happening before. These things were usually advertised in the daily weren't they? :confused:

[Host Walt]

Just curious. Was the "sommelier" a true wine expert who is responsible for deciding what will be on the wine list, who does constant quality control, and who can unilaterally decide what wine should be "poured down (the drain)" or was he what once was called a "wine steward" or "wine waiter" who is familiar with the wine list, the inventory, the vintages and the relative popularity of the ship's wines but is not necessarily an expert?

 

A true sommelier doesn't push anything at all apart from encouraging an appreciation of wines.

 

Also, besides pushing glass (Riedel, I suspect), was he pushing a specific wine label?

[Maryandi]

This reminds me of a recent experience we had. The wine steward would always come over to our table for two when he was not busy - not to top off our glasses but just to chit-chat.

 

It's nice that he was being so friendly and felt so comfortable with us BUT we had our dinner interupted for more than a 'hi-howare you?' our food got cold and I hate looking up all the time while talking.

 

Rather than avoiding the dining room or complaining to the Maitre d' at first, we had to say something to him. The next time he came for a 'chat', DH spoke up and said'we would like to talk to you later but would like to eat this while it is hot'. Then we put our heads down and started eating. It did shorten the visit and no hard feelings. Of course, we had to do it one other time but the 'message' was received.

 

Perhaps if it does happen to any 'hard sell' or other reasons, a similar approach would work.

 

Good luck, MaryAnn

[Xcruiser]

This reminds me of a recent experience we had. The wine steward would always come over to our table for two when he was not busy - not to top off our glasses but just to chit-chat.

 

It's nice that he was being so friendly and felt so comfortable with us BUT we had our dinner interupted for more than a 'hi-howare you?' our food got cold and I hate looking up all the time while talking.

 

Rather than avoiding the dining room or complaining to the Maitre d' at first, we had to say something to him. The next time he came for a 'chat', DH spoke up and said'we would like to talk to you later but would like to eat this while it is hot'. Then we put our heads down and started eating. It did shorten the visit and no hard feelings. Of course, we had to do it one other time but the 'message' was received.

 

Perhaps if it does happen to any 'hard sell' or other reasons, a similar approach would work.

 

Good luck, MaryAnn

This sounds like the Maitre'D we had on Westerdam. We couldn't get rid of him and we would chat about nothing always when the main course was severed. We basically used the same method as you until we would decide to go and bother the next table. :rolleyes:

 

Last March on Connie we had a very pushy wine steward. If my wife would ask for a class of wine his response would always be “we are out of that by the glass but I can get you a bottle if you like”. One time we took the bottle under the basis we could drink a glass each and have the remainder the next night. While we were waiting for our coffee after the meal he came by and poured the remainder to the rim of each glass.:( We have never had a pushy wine steward on any previous Celebrity sailing.

[sweetair]

last millie cruise we spent the entire cruise dining in the specialty restaurant.

we ordered 1 bottle each night. On one of the nights, my friend chose a chilian wine. The sommelier described the wine in detail...all i remember her saying it is an earthy wine/like a walk through a park. OH it was earthy alrighty... it tasted like a bunch of people in muddy shoes stomped on your tongue. The smell was like walking through wet muddy leaves.

We laughed half the evening about how bad this wine was(we did manage to each drink 1 glass)..The sommelier came back and said i can see you really dont like this choice...let me take this back and bring you each a glass of wine that i know you will like.

 

the 2 glasses were delicious and when the bill came we REALLY laughed...1 bottle chilian wine $65 1 glass merlot $25 1 glass cabernet $35. (i honestly thought we would only get charged for 1 or the other but im naive i guess)

Since we knew the sommelier enjoyed that wine...we told her to take the rest of the bottle and share it with a friend that you DONT like :D

 

That evening was the best $125 memory i will always remember.

*sweet*

[NorCalCruiseGuy]

On our most recent Celebrity sailing on the Infinity in November, we found the sommelier assigned to our section of the dining room was not what we have become used to on Celebrity. Each evening he would try to upsell us to a much more expensive bottle of wine. After the first two evenings, we ended up choosing one of the Celebrity Sonoma County vintages which were quite good, and quite inexpensive compared to most of the other overpriced wines on the wine list. He was also did not know very much about the wines, and often disappeared when we wanted to order a bottle, or during dinner when the wine needed to be poured. Needless to say, we did not feel compelled to tip anything additional at the end of the cruise. The 15% added to each wine purchase more than covered his service.

 

A note about the word sommelier--

Here is the definition of sommelier from Merriam-Webster:

Main Entry: som·me·lier Pronunciation: \ˌsə-məl-ˈyā\ Function: noun Inflected Form(s): plural sommeliers \-ˈyā(z)\ Etymology: French, from Middle French soumelier official charged with transportation of supplies, from Old French, pack animal driver, probably alteration of *sommerier, from somier pack animal, from Medieval Latin saugmarius, from Late Latin sagma packsaddle — more at sumpter Date: 1829 : a waiter in a restaurant who has charge of wines and their service : a wine steward

 

Sommelier is a "generic" term for a waiter who serves wine. This is very different from one of the several certifications available to become a "certified Sommelier", by one of the many associations or institutes that offer these certifications. Given the number of cruise ships and the number of "wine waiters", it is infeasible to think that the ships would be staffed with sommeliers certified by one of the major associations. It takes many years and is a costly venture to train one "certified" sommelier.

[Sea Island Lady]

Does Celebrity offer a wine package? Perhaps that is the way to go for those that are not that "INTO" wines, but enjoy a glass with dinner. That way, we can avoid the sales pitch. However, we would still have to put up with the wine-tasting and glass pitch. :rolleyes:

 

My DH and I are not wine connoisseurs, but normally buy a less expensive bottle to enjoy a glass each over two nights. All this talk has just about made me decide that we will not be drinking wine with dinner at all and will stick to mixed drinks. In fact, we plan on bringing a couple of wine bottles with us, so that I can enjoy wine spritzers in the room, while getting ready for the evening.

[Xcruiser]

A note about the word sommelier--

Here is the definition of sommelier from Merriam-Webster:

Main Entry: som·me·lier Pronunciation: \ˌsə-məl-ˈyā\ Function: noun Inflected Form(s): plural sommeliers \-ˈyā(z)\ Etymology: French, from Middle French soumelier official charged with transportation of supplies, from Old French, pack animal driver, probably alteration of *sommerier, from somier pack animal, from Medieval Latin saugmarius, from Late Latin sagma packsaddle — more at sumpter Date: 1829 : a waiter in a restaurant who has charge of wines and their service : a wine steward

I agree, you could have called our (Sommelier)/ wine steward on our last cruise on Connie a "pack animal driver" with an attitude! :eek: :D

 

Thanks for clearing that up.:)

[Hootsie]

I don't like wine. I think I'll just say we have an allergy to it so they stay away from us. LOL!

[Caesar]

You used to be able to order wine through the TV in your room.

 

Is this no longer an option?

 

Maybe I am thinking of another cruise line??

[casp]

I think the big motivation here is the automatic gratutity...15% on an $80 dollar bottle...this might cause the push to sell, sell, sell.

 

Plus I question as has others here the true definition of sommlier, wine steward at best.

 

Steve

[SusieV]

Wow, this is really disappointing to hear. Our last two sommeliers have been fabulous.

 

We do buy a lot of wine (usually 1-2 bottles a night) but we certainly don't want pushy, in your face service.

 

We'd be especially disappointed in sweetair's issue. We've had a "bad" wine before, and the sommelier took it back and replaced it with something we liked better. There was no charge for the first bottle.

[dmk]

Well, I thought it was my imagination. On our last cruise in December, I found the sommelier very pushy. I have never found this has happened before. My husband is the wine affectionado. I am good with one glass at meal times. I told that from the beginning to the sommelier. Yet, if I was turned away in conversation, he quickly refilled my wine glass. I found it very annoying to be always watching for his sneak attacks. I finally had to be very assertive with him. Not something I like to do.

The Specialty restaurant was really pushing expensive wines. We have had some really moderate priced wine in these restaurants on other occasions. We were told they were all out of all the ones we'd had before. So we asked for suggestions of a similiar wine. A similiar wine, not twice it's price.:eek:

What is going on here!

[hcat]

Wow!

On our Century cruise we sat with two couples who were very well versed about wine and had their bottles every night . To be sociable we bought a modest bottle & a few glasses & the somelier treated us all like gold! Turns out he was the cellar master...just a great person, very knowledgeable and gave great service to everyone at his tables.

 

Trip before that, also on Century we had an understanding person--one gentleman had health issues & although his wife drank wine nothing was pushed at any time..

 

Hope what is noted in above posts this is not a trend....!

[Desertbelle]

The sommeliers on our three Celebrity cruises were wonderful. The one on the Millennium was exceptional. I don't drink wine as a rule....though I do like an occasional dessert wine...and they always knew after the first night or two who it was that was "in charge" of ordering wine. Leaving me alone. :)

 

We will be on the Galaxy in April, I hope we don't run into a pushy sommelier.

[MEcruzr]

You used to be able to order wine through the TV in your room.

 

Is this no longer an option?

 

Maybe I am thinking of another cruise line??

 

You CAN order wine through the TV for dinner in the dining room... just do it on the day you want it by 5:00.

 

Hope this helps.

[JUST ADD WATER]

Just got off the Century (B2B 5 Night then 4 Night Western) and happy to report we did not have any issues like the ones decribed by the original poster. We like wine (not experts) and feel it is important to support Celebrity's decision to keep Sommeliers by purchasing wine while onboard. We really miss the Sommeliers when we cruise on Royal Caribbean. HOWEVER we certainly don't want pushy and rude ones like some of the posters have experienced!

 

We have found the best way to start out things is to tell the Sommelier we like red wines which are not too dry and in the past we have prefered La Crema (wine experts please don't flame us for that choice!). This lets them know a type of wine we enjoy as well as a price point to stay around ($40-$50). Has worked great for us and they have recommended several similar priced wines which we also enjoyed. At Muranos (speciality restaurant on Century) we told the Sommelier the above and asked him to recommend something just a touch above our regular choices. Both nights he picked a great wine which was around $60. We felt this was appropriate.

 

Maybe we have just been lucky, but the method above has worked for us. Just in case we'll pack the pepper spray for Galaxy in March :p ...

[spearmint]

You CAN order wine through the TV for dinner in the dining room... just do it on the day you want it by 5:00.

 

Hope this helps.

 

You can also order the wine the night before, from the sommelier/wine steward. He will have it at your table in a wine cooler when you arrive for dinner.

 

Do not ask for a choice of wines from the entire menu. Find those in your acceptable price range....mine is always the cheaper ones....and ask if they are dry, medium etc.-- whatever suits you. That way, you do not have to be "pushed" into a price range made even more ridiculous by the outrageous mark up.:eek: On our recent cruise, we tried two Reislings...one at $27 and one at $36. We did not like the second one much at all. The first was definitely better. While neither was expensive compared to the rest of the menu, there was a price difference. Expensive does not mean "good"; it just means "costly".:)

[Host Walt]

...Expensive does not mean "good"; it just means "costly".:)

Exactly.

 

A "good" wine is one that pleases you. Period.

 

I will scan the wine list for a few labels with which I'm familiar to estimate the markup. (For example, a Kendall Jackson Chardonnay, any year, should never be more than $25.00 on board ship.) Then I use that to find a label that is new to me and will give it a go.

 

When a wine is offered both by the glass and the bottle,and I don't know the label, I'll order a glass and share it with my DW. If we like it, we'll order the bottle.

 

But we've never ordered the higher priced wines on board. If they are really "special," the less than ideal storage conditions (variable temperatures and constant motion) will compromise their character.

[dutchess43]

My last three cruises the Sommeliers were great. As a matter of fact we had an exceptional one on the Millie & when he came onboard half through our last Millie cruise he was serving a couple of tables over from us once he recognized us he came right over to our table. Well that set off a I can do a better job with our designated sommelier. All of a sudden after we had our bottle of wine with dinner she was bringing over other bottles free of charge to taste. Now mind you this is all before the Reidel tasting transpired so I will see shortly if we see a change in attitudes.

[SusieV]

Exactly.

 

A "good" wine is one that pleases you. Period.

 

I will scan the wine list for a few labels with which I'm familiar to estimate the markup. (For example, a Kendall Jackson Chardonnay, any year, should never be more than $25.00 on board ship.) Then I use that to find a label that is new to me and will give it a go.

 

When a wine is offered both by the glass and the bottle,and I don't know the label, I'll order a glass and share it with my DW. If we like it, we'll order the bottle.

 

But we've never ordered the higher priced wines on board. If they are really "special," the less than ideal storage conditions (variable temperatures and constant motion) will compromise their character.

 

Many good wines aren't offered by the glass.

 

I have to confess that I've wondered about the storage, but we've ordered several excellent (and expensive!) bottles of wine onboard and they've all been superb. I guess they have a way around that problem.

[Wineguys]

Some above mentioned the training of a "certified" Sommelier. I trained over 20 years ago, doing my first year to become as the poster said "trained" during difficult but not too unpleasant course study. Once "certified" (I chucle at the term, inaccurate but correct), I continued to study at Windows of the World in both classwork and real life apprenticeship. The 2 to 3 years to a master sommelier was cut short after about a year when I was told that, while my teaching skills were good, "I just don't have "It" and I should just enjoy wine and not waste my time!" :eek: :mad: :(

 

Oh no they didunt! Also, after master sommelier comes Master of Wine, as very particular ranking that only a few thousand people in the entire world have ever acheived. That is an additional 4 to 6 years of study.

 

Lets see, what was my original point...the Xanax and vodka are kicking in....??? Oh, right...

 

Next time, this is how you deal with a bad wine steward, which is what you had. You ask to speak to the Cellar Master (every ship has one). He is in charge of all the wine waiters. Discreetly (or not) tell him that you are not happy with your wine steward, and ask for a switch. I did that on the Century by night 3 and all was well. No more upselling, the steward and I got along famously.

 

On HAL, it was apparent the wine stewards and even the Cellar Master did not know much about wine. I was in a seminar and had to quietly correct the Master twice (pompous as$ that I am). But I brought 2 cases of bizarre wines with me, and let them both try everything, so didn't pay corkage after the 5th or 6th night. Things like Rhode Island Cabernet Franc, Connecticut Seyval Blanc Ice Wine, Southern California Sweet Nancy Chenin Blanc, Central Coast Viognier, Rousanne & Marsanne, Navarro "Methode Ancienne" Pinot Noir, etc. etc.

[Mr. Boston]

Our Sommelier was very pushy on our recent Summit cruise. We were a table of four and one evening he interrupted a very deep conversation to push the Reidel wine tasting. It was very jarring and rude. We felt like Royal Caribbean had interjected a commercial into what was a private family conversation. We also had to reprimand the Sommelier about his heavy pouring technique. One evening we had a half a bottle of wine that we intended for him to save until the next evening. He came around and without even asking poured a very large amount into my sister-in-law's glass, enough so that the bottle was then not worth keeping until the following night. We were pretty pi##ed off with him especially since we would normally buy two bottles each evening. That was the only complaint that I had on the entire cruise and I made sure that it was noted in my questionnaire. And yes, he was the Sommelier as he had the little tasting cup around his neck.

[sealover155]

Wineguys - you cracked me up with the vodka and Xanax! I'll certainly remember to request the Celler Master if the situation ever presents itself.

 

We've experienced quite a lot of attempted upselling on recent cruises especially in the specialty restaurants. I don't know why they got the impression we were good targets since we usually know exactly what we want. I was particularly concerned when the "sommelier" tried to upsell one of the recommended selections listed on the menu!

 

Also, we were attacked by a bar server during lunchtime in the buffet on Millennium last November who was trying to sell the blending session. He succeeded in selling us the reservation which we didn't want. I thought it was the end of a facial in the spa! We later declined and cancelled the reservation and got the $40. refunded.

 

On the upside, last summer on Infinity, we brought aboard a magnum of 1980 Chateau Montelena Cabernet Sauvignon purchased at the vineyard in '81. We took it to the sommelier in SS United States who extracted the very old cork, decanted it, and served it beautifully for a very special anniversary. They couldn't have been more gracious or excited for us as we were extremely nervous about the wine surviving our storage and transporting it to the ship. (It was divine).