Inappropriate Behavior from Gem Crew Member

[Urban trekker]

Bobnatt - should we allow politicians of any political stripe to be elected to any office regardless of what the criminal offense was/is and regardless of whether it happened at 18, 25 or 60 and whether it happened five years or 35 years ago.

 

That's all that I intend to say on this topic as it is drifting away from a mother whose 13 year old daughter had an unwanted experience involving a crew member of a cruise ship. Since we were not there to witness what did or did not happen we shouldn't be prejudging what action NCL may take or doubting the mothers word.

 

Dennis

[hamrag]

Not throwing stones, just questioning why her MIL didn't think whatever happened was worth mentioning to the mother, especially, after the first "rude" ( there's that word again) comment

Please read her trip review and you will see a pattern.

 

Well said! This question is being evaded by Sick of Snow in her various responses. It is interesting to note that in her trip review she complained on-board on three separate occasions about three other matters, but it took 11 days to find out the "details" of the incident under discussion.

 

Go figure!

[Gixer]

If the crewmembers actions were inappropriate then sick of snow need not worry, the situation will be dealt with as I am sure the security camera's will reveal all.

I have to say though, that if something like this had happened to my daughter and my MIL decided not to tell me about it then I would have SERIOUS issues with her! I hope your MIL has apologised for keeping this from you sick of snow, she had no right not to tell you what went on so you could have dealt with it straight away - If a stranger laid a hand on my daughter in an inappropriate way in front of my MIL I know for sure she would have raised the roof right there and then! Why didnt your MIL do/say anything at the time? :confused: Your MIL must know that a crewmember assaulting her grandaughter warrants a complaint immediatley - certainly more than complaints of food orders not being taken for 15mins, not being able to eat at the beach buffet, doors slamming etc How come your MIL complained about all of those things but not the assault of her grandaughter? which is far more serious? its very confusing and doesnt make a whole lot of sense to me?

[MrMate]

I don't exactly understand what you are saying. Are you suggesting that there are positions on a cruise line where it be ok for the cruise line to hire someone with a criminal record? Would it be ok if someone had been a convicted robber or had a non sexual assault or stole money? I would certainly hope that was not the case. Also how is the review done and how rigourous is the process?

 

I'm sorry I think i wasn't clear. I guess it depends on the crime of course :)

 

I just didn't remember being asked to present a police report when hired, but I guess that would come clear during my psychological test.

[DocJohnB]

While the action sounds inappropriate, and assaults certainly happen everywhere including cruise ships, I think it is a wild stretch to equate what happened to an assault.

 

Has anyone seen how kids dance nowadays... ever seen them "grinding" on the dance floor? This ain't your parents' cruise ship.

 

Dingo. Agree with your "assault" thoughts. However, it does probably constitute a battery.

 

Battery: Law. an unlawful attack upon another person by beating or wounding, or by touching in an offensive manner.

 

Totally disagree with the latter paragraph. Kids dancing (no matter how suggestive) and what this young man allegedly did have no bearing on each other. Why . . . . . . simply because while the kids dance they do so consensually. Can't see anything in the OP that suggests that the daughter gave her consent to be touched.

[suzyed]

Not throwing stones, just questioning why her MIL didn't think whatever happened was worth mentioning to the mother, especially, after the first "rude" ( there's that word again) comment

Please read her trip review and you will see a pattern.

Are you saying because she wrote a negative trip review (the only negative review ever written??), that her telling of the incident with her daughter is suspect? If that's not throwing stones, I don't know what is.

Go back and read the original post. I just can't believe the reactions of some of the posters here.

[suzyed]

Okay, I have re-read it numerous times. Here's what I see....Mom knew something happened but doesn't ask the "other adult" or her daughter what, especially knowing something transpired in the gift shop earlier. Daughter and other adult are so upset and uncomfortable that they don't even bring it up until after they are off the ship. In my opinion, they all blew it right there on the island. Any "responsible" adult would have looked into and taken care of the problem right there with all the witnesses in one spot.....Sorry Mom...YOU blew it.

Are you really saying that because she didn't have all the facts immediately, or didnt act right away that she has no recourse and should just forget the incident? She blew it? OMG...she is trying to make it right now...give her some slack. I am quite sure if this happened with your 13 year old (or 18, or 10 or,yes,31) you would want some answers.

 

Come on folks! We all know that bad things (really bad) sometime happen on cruise ships. There are rapes and assults...surely you all know this....maybe if the line was drawn with less serious incidents (as this surely is), it wouldnt progress to the point of worse incidents.

[Gixer]

Are you saying because she wrote a negative trip review (the only negative review ever written??), that her telling of the incident with her daughter is suspect? If that's not throwing stones, I don't know what is.

Go back and read the original post. I just can't believe the reactions of some of the posters here.

 

 

Not ''suspect'' but definatley confusing :confused: - Suzy even you must agree that its peculiar that the MIL didnt say something while the 'offence' took place or straight after it? Why would someone complain there and then about a food order not being taken for 15mins but NOT complain about an assault on a child?

Its not sick of snows fault - she didnt know anything about the 'offence' until they returned home - but the MIL's actions or serious lack of should be addressed. I would like to hear the MIL side of the story - why she spent all week complaining of various things wrong with the cruise but not an assault on her grandchild? and why she kept this from sick of snow for so long :confused:

[suzyed]

If the crewmembers actions were inappropriate then sick of snow need not worry, the situation will be dealt with as I am sure the security camera's will reveal all.

I have to say though, that if something like this had happened to my daughter and my MIL decided not to tell me about it then I would have SERIOUS issues with her! I hope your MIL has apologised for keeping this from you sick of snow, she had no right not to tell you what went on so you could have dealt with it straight away - If a stranger laid a hand on my daughter in an inappropriate way in front of my MIL I know for sure she would have raised the roof right there and then! Why didnt your MIL do/say anything at the time? :confused: Your MIL must know that a crewmember assaulting her grandaughter warrants a complaint immediatley - certainly more than complaints of food orders not being taken for 15mins, not being able to eat at the beach buffet, doors slamming etc How come your MIL complained about all of those things but not the assault of her grandaughter? which is far more serious? its very confusing and doesnt make a whole lot of sense to me?

I am sure she can't explain why her MIL didnt tell her...who can explain why their MIL does anything! :rolleyes: I certainly would have a hard time explaning my own MIL...;)

[suzyed]

Not ''suspect'' but definatley confusing :confused: - Suzy even you must agree that its peculiar that the MIL didnt say something while the 'offence' took place or straight after it? Why would someone complain there and then about a food order not being taken for 15mins but NOT complain about an assault on a child?

Its not sick of snows fault - she didnt know anything about the 'offence' until they returned home - but the MIL's actions or serious lack of should be addressed. I would like to hear the MIL side of the story - why she spent all week complaining of various things wrong with the cruise but not an assault on her grandchild? and why she kept this from sick of snow for so long :confused:

Because MILs do that! :rolleyes: Her MIL could be 83 and losing her marbles (like mine is!) When people get old, they dont always act rationally, esp. if dementia is creeping in.

All I am saying is, this incident is worth looking into. Look at it as an opportunity to "retrain" staff without particularly targeting one individual.

[suzyed]

sorry double post

[DocJohnB]

good for you; I am surprised others, including myself didn't pick up on this. I knew I had seen the name before but couldn't remember the details.

 

Nita

 

 

Nita,

 

Surely, you jest. What the heck is the tie-in between her review post and this one. She wrote the review(?) pretty soon after she returned from the cruise (I didn't find it to be all that negative a review). Her MIL gave her the details of the "incident" after she wrote that review.

 

Sick of Snow is a concerned parent, IMO. When she learned what did happen from the MIL, she wrote to NCL and to this board to INFORM. GOOD ON HER. Sure, it is too bad the MIL did not inform her at the time. It certainly would have saved Sick of Snow the name calling and innuendo that has filtered into this thread.

 

I wish I had known of this while we were on board. I would have taken care of it immediately. However, I have written to NCL to report this after the fact so that they can be aware.

 

I (we) don't know what happened on board GEM that day (we weren't there). If it happened, as Sick of Snow says it did, then NCL needs to address the situation. At a minimum the young man needs to be disciplined and the crew needs to be trained in what is appropriate/inappropriate (if they are not already so trained).

 

If it did not happen as Sick of Snow says it did, it can still be used as a good object lesson for the rest of us.

[sjbdtz]

WOW - you must not have daughter(s) . . . This is unfair.

 

I was going to keep quiet, but here goes anyway. I agree that if the child was uncomfortable, then something should at least be said to the superiors. You see, I have not one but two daughters. I have been in a situation where a middle-school (male) student decided that he needed to know what a young girl's breasts felt like while on a school bus on the way home! Yes, he touched her . . . did anyone on the bus do/say anything? NOPE. Did I call the bus barn and ream the director for the lack of anything from her driver? You bet. Did I call the principal of the school? Yup. Did it get taken care of? Sort of . . .

 

Anyway, my point is that just because you wanna touch doesn't mean you can. Sometimes it's just a light touch on the arm and sometimes, it's worse.

 

Whether the OP came here before, after or during the incident, doesn't make a big difference. She came here as a loving parent of a young daughter to just open up a communication door. It wasn't open for everyone to decide exactly what happened. Not the issue.

 

It may very well have been 2,000% innocent, but you know, it doesn't really matter. It happened, it was inappropriate and she let someone on the ship know, again, it doesn't matter that it was after the fact. It really doesn't matter. She communicated the issue. Period, end of subject.

 

But, making the comment "one absurdly over-reacting parent" is really more unfair than the parent addressing the situation.

 

 

 

Picture in your mind what actually happened (according to the OP)....she was signing paperwork at the register.... and the mother-in-law was behind her, and presumably said to the girl "let's go"....and the clerk (and I also know who he is... he's very identifiable, from the description) said in a joking voice (the tone you would use with a young nephew or niece) "no, she's staying here with me", while loosely encircling her waist with his arm.

 

I've done / said the exact same thing to neighbour's kids, my nephew, etc. I can assure you ENTIRELY that there was NOTHING sexual in the motive, it is commonly referred to as goofing around. I can even picture in my mind the smile, the tone of voice....this was not a predator...this was a person trying to make a young-adult the center of attention.

 

We know from the OP that he knew she & the girl were together, do you REALLY think that he'd be stupid-enough to try and sexually assault a minor while her mother was 2 feet away?

 

He was JOKING, and given that the mother wasn't aware that touching was involved, suggest that the child wasn't as "uncomfortable" as the mother suggests.

 

Hence my comment that the mother is irrationally over-reacting.

 

I stand by it.

[sjbdtz]

Again I ask the question... would you or anyone else feel the same way if it were a 30 year old man who did this?:confused:

 

Yes. I would feel the exact same way if a 65 year old man did "THIS". Because "THIS" is what's being misunderstood.

 

This was not a grab-a-grope...it was a playful, open, joking, harmless interaction. Not a hug, not a dirty-dance.... just an "you can't have her back..I'm keeping her!" joke.

 

It was in the OP's words...so serious a crime, that it merits ruining an 18 year-old's entire life.

 

So serious that neither the child nor the grandmother even commented on the physical contact until after the cruise was over.

 

This appears to be yet another example of someone fishing for a free cruise. Seen it before, and doubtless will see it again.

[sjbdtz]

Yes, I find it interesting that I think I've asked 3 times now and no one has bothered to respond.:rolleyes:

 

I for one thank you for bringing this to the board. It is something people should be aware of. Not so much this particular guy as hopefully he'll be re-trained and mend his ways, but it helps people to read things like this and to wonder what they would do if this were to happen to them. It is something to be aware of and even if it helps to remind parents to talk to their children and tell them immediately if something happens that makes them uncomfortable.

 

And don't worry about others passing judgment, that's been helpful too. As my signature says 'You are not anonymous, your words reveal exactly who you are'. Some of the things posted here has shown me what kind of people they are.;)

 

 

Exactly. Some of us are not uptight about casual joking interactions, even if they're among strangers.

 

Some of us are not so uptight that a stranger giving us a pat on the back is considered "inappropriate" or 'assault".

 

Some of us are willing to give people the benefit of the doubt, and NOT presuppose that their intentions are nefarious.

[Gixer]

Nita,

 

Sure, it is too bad the MIL did not inform her at the time. It certainly would have saved Sick of Snow the name calling and innuendo that has filtered into this thread.

 

Too bad?!?! :confused: Her grandaughter was assaulted by a young man who touched her in an innapropriate way - and the fact that the MIL said nothing is 'too bad'?!?! My gosh I cant quite believe what Im reading!

 

Door slamming - warrants a complaint

 

Food order took 15mins - warrants a complaint

 

Rude staff at various times during the cruise - warrants a complaint

 

But a physical assault on a grandchild doesnt even warrant a mention until 11 days AFTER the cruise?!

 

And you call that too bad?! :eek:

 

 

If I was sick of snow I would be furious with my MIL and would never allow her to be alone with the child again - she obviously isnt responsible enough to be in a position of trust with the girl if she doesnt think that inappropriate touching is worthy of a complaint the moment it happens.

[isles1]

This appears to be yet another example of someone fishing for a free cruise.

That is what came to my mind after re-reading this thread after looking at the OPs trip report. Lots of letter writing. Lots of complaints about just about every aspect of the cruise. The story in the OP is a good clincher.

[isles1]

If I was sick of snow I would be furious with my MIL and would never allow her to be alone with the child again - she obviously isnt responsible enough to be in a position of trust with the girl if she doesnt think that inappropriate touching is worthy of a complaint the moment it happens.

Or perhaps the MIL didn't see anything that struck her as inappropriate at the time. The OP, who admits to not seeing any of this take place, has decided that this was inappropriate 11 days after disembarking. Maybe she is right; I have no idea. Maybe I missed it, but there is no mention of the daughter saying what happened made her uncomfortable. Only the OP, after hearing about all this entirely out of context, has flown off the handle about it.

[bobnatt]

Bobnatt - should we allow politicians of any political stripe to be elected to any office regardless of what the criminal offense was/is and regardless of whether it happened at 18, 25 or 60 and whether it happened five years or 35 years ago.

 

That's all that I intend to say on this topic as it is drifting away from a mother whose 13 year old daughter had an unwanted experience involving a crew member of a cruise ship. Since we were not there to witness what did or did not happen we shouldn't be prejudging what action NCL may take or doubting the mothers word.

 

Dennis

 

I am not sure what your point is. My earlier response was that the mother should go with her gut and notify the CEO of exactly what had happened. I encourage the mother to bring this forward so that NCL can do their own review and get back to the mother with what they have found and how they disposed of the matter. If the mother is not satisfied their are alot of other avenues that she can take to find satisfaction but the first thing she should do is to give NCL an oportunity to respond.

 

Given all the bad publicity the cruise industry has received over the past few years about folks falling overboard or otherwise missing on cruise ships I gotta believe that NCL management will take this matter very seriously.

[Gixer]

That is what came to my mind after re-reading this thread after looking at the OPs trip report. Lots of letter writing. Lots of complaints about just about every aspect of the cruise. The story in the OP is a good clincher.

 

Ohh my....please tell me you dont really think that is what's behind all this? Why would anybody be so cruel as to ruin a young mans life in order to get a free cruise?!

 

I certainly hope that isnt the case - please tell me it isnt! :(

[sjbdtz]

You just found out?? And you have been home 11 days now?? :confused: Anyway,sounds like you had lots of negative experiences:( ..hope the next one is better..

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=14155851&postcount=8

 

 

Yes...thank you for posting that thread, including this comment:

 

"My daughter and mom in law loved this ship and the experience."

 

 

So much for being so uncomfortable, that you're willing to RUIN a man's life.

[isles1]

That is what came to my mind after re-reading this thread after looking at the OPs trip report. Lots of letter writing. Lots of complaints about just about every aspect of the cruise. The story in the OP is a good clincher.

 

Ohh my....please tell me you dont really think that is what's behind all this? Why would anybody be so cruel as to ruin a young mans life in order to get a free cruise?!

 

I certainly hope that isnt the case - please tell me it isnt! :(

I hope not either, but it seems suspect that the OP took issue with practically every aspect of the cruise. The timing and circumstances of how this all came to light is a bit strange is all. 11 days later? The two people who saw it happen, daughter and MIL, does not say anything until well after they get home; and neither of which are reported to be upset or made uncomfortable by it? The fact that the OP accusations are based on second-hand information that was conveyed entirely out of context (since the OP did not hear or see it happen)?

[Gixer]

Or perhaps the MIL didn't see anything that struck her as inappropriate at the time. The OP, who admits to not seeing any of this take place, has decided that this was inappropriate 11 days after disembarking. Maybe she is right; I have no idea. Maybe I missed it, but there is no mention of the daughter saying what happened made her uncomfortable. Only the OP, after hearing about all this entirely out of context, has flown off the handle about it.

 

 

Actually there is a mention of the daughter being uncomftable and the MIL did witness something that struck her as being inappropriate at the time - this is a quote from one of sick of snows posts-

 

 

What he did made her very uncomfortable, it made my mother in law uncomfortable watching the interaction and it made me uncomfortable hearing it. That goes beyond fun flirting in my opinion.

 

What I dont understand is if the MIL was so uncomftable watching the interaction why the heck didnt she do something about it? why wait until they get home to mention the fact? I just cant get my head around it!

[bobstheboy]

Firstly, I am a 62 year old man with 1 daughter and 2 sons. I am also a retired police officer who has unfortunately had to deal with paedophiles.

 

There is something about the series of events in this matter that make me question the motives of the mother. Surely if the girl and/or the

MIL had been so upset about the incident in the shop, something would have been said to the mother a lot sooner than 11 days after the cruise ? I am not condoning the actions of the shop employee and he should be advised on where the boundaries are with customers. I have an uncomfortable feeling that this will result in the dismissal of an 18 year old man, without a reference and will have a life changing effect. NCL will not want to take any chances of this happening again.

 

Of course I may well be wrong and this man has paedophile tendancies but somehow I don't think so.

 

Bob

[sjbdtz]

 

What I dont understand is if the MIL was so uncomftable watching the interaction why the heck didnt she do something about it? why wait until they get home to mention the fact? I just cant get my head around it!

 

 

Which is why I've said almost everything I've said in this thread.

 

 

 

We had neighbours who had friends with young daughters around that age, and one of them had a slight crush on me....I can recall a similar conversation, TO, and IN FRONT OF her parents.... saying to THEM directly...no, we're keeping her.....she giggled, enjoying the attention, the parents laughed...and off she went to pack up & go home.