Inappropriate Behavior from Gem Crew Member

[old sole]

Okay, I'm going to say something which is likely to cause many people to fire back at me. But so be it. :D

 

No flames from here.

 

These earlier posts from the OP are instructive:

 

We have a 13 year old going with us. I see that on NCL that age goes in with kids up to 17. Was wondering how the 'kids' programs for that age group are and if it is really appropraite and chaperoned for the 13 year old who really wants to be a 16 year old girl.

Thanks

 

Not exactly what you want to read when you are about to cruise with your teenage daughter. Her and I have already been butting heads over her "freedom" on the ship. She believes she should be allowed to come and go with any new friends she may make.

 

I'm afraid she's going to have an interesting next 5-6 years.

 

I wasn't there, and maybe the young man was out of line, I don't know. But it's also possible that if your antenna is already up you can overreact to otherwise harmless interactions.

 

I've raised a daughter, and my wife & I have taken a granddaughter on cruises without her parents,. I can appreciate the anxiety, but I'm just sayin' . . .

[WinterSky]

While the action sounds inappropriate, and assaults certainly happen everywhere including cruise ships, I think it is a wild stretch to equate what happened to an assault.

 

Has anyone seen how kids dance nowadays... ever seen them "grinding" on the dance floor? This ain't your parents' cruise ship.

 

Inappropriate, simple assault, breach of trust, whatever it is called - it simply should NOT have happened.

 

I have nothing to say about your comment regarding how children dance - it speaks clearly for itself.

[WinterSky]

..... I can appreciate the anxiety, but I'm just sayin' . . .

 

You obviously have been there too, and don't most 13 year olds want to be 16? But we know that the fact is that wanting to be 16 doesn't make it so, in practical or legal terms. That's why 13 year olds need us (parents and grand parents) to be vigilant about ensuring that they make it to 16 and 18 and 20 safely.

[BeachBumMama]

Has anyone seen how kids dance nowadays... ever seen them "grinding" on the dance floor? This ain't your parents' cruise ship.

I'm trying to understand what this has to do with the OP's situation?:rolleyes:

 

Regardless whether it was in innocent fun (in the young man's mind), or if he had other intentions in mind. Doesn't negate the fact that he should never have put his hands on her, pulled her to him, touched her, etc. With someone being told about this situation maybe it will save him from losing his job and not doing it anymore. Could also save him from another fate. I can see a father, mother, grandfather, uncle, whatever, another person with a quick temper may cause him a trip to the ship's doctor.

 

So, regardless of whether it was innocent or not on his part, for his own good he ought to be trained about some boundaries.

[SusieV]

I don't cruise NCL but I heard about this thread and had to leave some comments.

 

My first cruise was on Royal Caribbean's Monarch of the Seas with my parents, and I was thirteen years old.

 

Our dining room server was a very attractive young man and consequently I developed a huge crush on him. He made such an impression on me that twelve years later I still remember his name. He always made little jokes and I would say now that he was pretty flirty but since I was a child it was just all in good fun (and probably for the hope of getting a good tip from my parents). On the last night, he gave me a big hug while we were leaving the dining room, and a kiss on the cheek.

 

Inappropriate? I don't think so at all.

 

I agree that society is FAR too quick to make assumptions about people. I take care of children in my line of work and it can be so awkward when I put them down for nap and a child wants a hug and a kiss. I could lose my job if the child tells their parents that I gave them a hug, and I can't imagine how it could possibly be inappropriate for me to give a two or three year old child a hug if they want one. It's one thing to be protective of your children- it's another thing to be a little paranoid about anyone.

 

What did your daughter think about the incident, OP? I bet she was thrilled that he was kidding around with her and is begging you not to get him in trouble. You know full well that if it was an inappropriate decision, your daughter would have gotten your attention while you were signing the slip. Leave the poor employee alone, all he did was give your daughter a thrill.

[BeachBumMama]

What he did made her very uncomfortable, it made my mother in law uncomfortable watching the interaction and it made me uncomfortable hearing it.

 

What did your daughter think about the incident, OP?

I'm not the OP but I posted the answer you were looking for above. Had you bothered to read the posts you might have had the answer for yourself.

 

Leave the poor employee alone, all he did was give your daughter a thrill.

I suppose you can put yourself in her daughter's shoes? Just because you had a situation where you had a huge crush on your server, and he gave you a hug and kiss on the cheek that thrilled you, all innocent, I'm sure, doesn't mean it's the same kind of situation.:rolleyes:

[CruisnGram]

In this day and age, it is not appropriate for strangers to pick up, or cuddle any child.

 

And that is the exact attitude I'm talking about.

 

The OP brings up a good point. Cruiseships are not danger-free to young people. This is just another reminder. I am not saying what his particuluar employee did was criminal behavior, just that there are hundreds of employees on the cruiseship, many of them don't work in "public", but can be predators to young people.

 

 

 

No where is danger free for young people. And there can be predators anywhere for sure. And as I said previously, parents have a duty to safetly protect their child. I simply feel that being overly suspicious of every person who shows attention and/or affection to your child, and assuming that every person who does so is intending harm, is not healthy for a child.

 

I feel sorry for the children of today as they are missing out on affectionate interaction with so many people. I own school buses and have driven for over 25 years, and I cannot tell you how it makes me feel when a 5 year old jumps on the bus and gives me a great big hug and wants a hug back...........and I have to keep my hands at my side for fear of what I will be accused of. It's very, very sad.

 

I must say that if what the boy originally said to her daughter was so rude, I cannot believe that the OP can't remember what he said. However, I would 100% agree that if the OP's daughter was made to feel uncomfortable in ANY way, then this boy was out of line. Period. End of discussion. Another poster said that it may have been innocent but NCL should be notified so as this young man can be trained as to what is and what is not appropriate which I agree with also. If he simply didn't realize what he was doing, he will learn in training. And if he continues after training to do the same type thing, NCL will have it on record that he is a problem and will be able to deal witih him accordingly so that no other child has to tolerate those type of advances.

[pumpkin228]

As a repeat passenger on NCL and as both now a passenger when I was a teenager and now, I think we can all mostly agree the crew has a different set of rules where they come from! The crew is trying to have fun too! They flirt and smile, and JOKE with everyone in particular the male crew members with female guests and lets face it, if you're on the receiving end of it you usually welcome that good feeling of being smiled at and flirted with! I've been "grabbed" by more than a few crew members but in the friendly ways of lets dance, and lets have fun, loosen up and party kinda ways. You have to remember these guys are on this boat for a long time and a happy woman gives bigger tips!!! :)

 

On the flip side....... I appreciate the "warning" from the OP.

[BeachBumMama]

and I cannot tell you how it makes me feel when a 5 year old jumps on the bus and gives me a great big hug and wants a hug back...........and I have to keep my hands at my side for fear of what I will be accused of. It's very, very sad.

Although sad for normal people such as us, to a bus driver who might be a child predator, if giving hugs were accepted and allowed, a child would easily fall into their trap. Children of a certain age don't know the difference between good and bad people until its too late. Child predator's 'pretend' of course they are 'good' people.

 

I'd much rather have a child think I'm distant for not giving them a hug, than for them to fall into the trap of a predator. It might be frustrating for you because you mean no harm. But many people do mean harm. And maybe society is paranoid about it, but if it saves at least one child, that's not a bad thing.

 

And just as a side note, this was a separate comment outside of the OP's situation.:) Just wanted to make it clear I'm not calling the guy involved anything of the sort. I do think he needs a refresher course in conduct though.

[CruisnGram]

Although sad for normal people such as us, to a bus driver who might be a child predator, if giving hugs were accepted and allowed, a child would easily fall into their trap. Children of a certain age don't know the difference between good and bad people until its too late. Child predator's 'pretend' of course they are 'good' people.

 

I'd much rather have a child think I'm distant for not giving them a hug, than for them to fall into the trap of a predator. It might be frustrating for you because you mean no harm. But many people do mean harm. And maybe society is paranoid about it, but if it saves at least one child, that's not a bad thing.

 

I cannot argue with your logic and do agree. However, it still makes me sad to think about what todays generation of childen are missing out on.

 

And just as a side note, this was a separate comment outside of the OP's situation.:) Just wanted to make it clear I'm not calling the guy involved anything of the sort. I do think he needs a refresher course in conduct though.

 

I agree here also. From what I've read, I don't think this young man meant any harm, but as I said, if it made the child uncomfortable, he needs to learn that he cannot go around grabbing people and being offensive in any way and the refresher course wouldn't be a bad idea.

[CruisnGram]

As a repeat passenger on NCL and as both now a passenger when I was a teenager and now, I think we can all mostly agree the crew has a different set of rules where they come from! The crew is trying to have fun too! They flirt and smile, and JOKE with everyone in particular the male crew members with female guests and lets face it, if you're on the receiving end of it you usually welcome that good feeling of being smiled at and flirted with! I've been "grabbed" by more than a few crew members but in the friendly ways of lets dance, and lets have fun, loosen up and party kinda ways. You have to remember these guys are on this boat for a long time and a happy woman gives bigger tips!!! :)

 

On the flip side....... I appreciate the "warning" from the OP.

 

You have to admit tho, there is a difference between a "happy woman" and a 13 year old girl.

[suzyed]

In this day and age, it is not appropriate for strangers to pick up, or cuddle any child. The OP brings up a good point. Cruiseships are not danger-free to young people. This is just another reminder. I am not saying what his particuluar employee did was criminal behavior, just that there are hundreds of employees on the cruiseship, many of them don't work in "public", but can be predators to young people.

Whether it was innocent or not...it is not appropriate for a stranger to touch another person...esp. a cruise employee to touch a young girl of any age. I would think that would be part of the employee training.

While we were in Mexico several years ago, an employee in one of the shops in Cozumel, kissed my daughter (13 at the time) while my back was turned. She was so freaked out and scared that she grabbed my arm and dragged me out of the shop. She, in no way, invited this behavior. She happens to be very cute and very blond, which probably makes her stand out more so in Mexico. (When she was 2 years old and we were shopping in Mexico, we had many people, male and female, literally chase us around so that could touch her hair because they thought it was "lucky")

Another time while we were dining in Cancun, this same daughter (17 at this time) got up to go to the restroom, and as she went down the stairs to the restroom, three guys got up and started following her. I made DH get up and escort her to the bathroom. Very scary.

OK, so we can't really do anything about strangers in Mexico, but we can call attention to a cruise employee behaving in a way that is unacceptable. I am sure he was just being friendly and I would hate to see him lose his job if that is the case, but at the very least, there should be some "retraining" done with this young man.

[briansnel]

All things aside the OP followed her intuition regarding the circumstances. When a mother, or a woman, feels intuitively something is wrong LISTEN TO HER. She may have exaggerated the situation but if her senses said NO, I believe she is spot on. And coming from a developing country, without the "American paranoia", we still have much physical affection amongst strangers, but even here mothers 'just know' when a line is being crossed.

And worst cased scenario she may have faulted on the side of caution. Her daughter now knows her mother has her back and this guy knows what he did could be seen in this manner (presuming his innocence)

[suzyed]

All things aside the OP followed her intuition regarding the circumstances. When a mother, or a woman, feels intuitively something is wrong LISTEN TO HER. She may have exaggerated the situation but if her senses said NO, I believe she is spot on. And coming from a developing country, without the "American paranoia", we still have much physical affection amongst strangers, but even here mothers 'just know' when a line is being crossed.

And worst cased scenario she may have faulted on the side of caution. Her daughter now knows her mother has her back and this guy knows what he did could be seen in this manner (presuming his innocence)

You are absolutely right! I applaud you standing up and being counted in this discussion.

[Cosmopolitan]

In this day and age, it is not appropriate for strangers to pick up, or cuddle any child. The OP brings up a good point. Cruiseships are not danger-free to young people. This is just another reminder. I am not saying what his particuluar employee did was criminal behavior, just that there are hundreds of employees on the cruiseship, many of them don't work in "public", but can be predators to young people.

 

This could go on and on..DH coached many soccer teams, beginning when he (we) could hug/congratulate players after a game. NO MORE hugging...what a shame.

 

Many of the staff/crew members miss hugging their own children and make quite a fuss over the little-ones on the ships.

 

I'm not saying that parents should not be aware of their kids and their ages and/or where the "hugs" come from..just be wary as to who you accuse and the age of the "kids"

 

How funny that during campaign stops...people love their kids (no matter what their age) being photographed with a candidate:confused:

[sjbdtz]

[quote name='BeachBumMama']I'm trying to understand what this has to do with the OP's situation?:rolleyes:

Regardless whether it was in innocent fun (in the young man's mind), or if he had other intentions in mind. Doesn't negate the fact that he should never have put his hands on her, pulled her to him, touched her, etc. With someone being told about this situation maybe it will save him from losing his job and not doing it anymore. Could also save him from another fate. I can see a father, mother, grandfather, uncle, whatever, another person with a quick temper may cause him a trip to the ship's doctor.

So, regardless of whether it was innocent or not on his part, for his own good he ought to be trained about some boundaries.[/quote]


So....did she touch HIM at some other point? Who said what, immediately before he said "no, she's staying here with me", knowing that her mother was 3 feet away?

This is yet another example of something being blown WAY out of proportion.

The kid apparently didn't see anything wrong with it, or she would have said, at the time, "Mom....help".

I'd be willing to bet that she was laughing, that he was laughing, that someone else had just said "it's time to go".... it's called "horseplay" and is not sexual in nature.

Not every human contact is sexual in nature. That's today's lesson.

[NJ04SS]

[quote name='falken']It sounds to me as if he was making a joke. It may have been inappropiate and in bad taste. He needs to be trained not to touch people and not to make comments such as that, but it does not sound to me that she was actually assaulted or abused.

You could contact the FBI as she was a US citizen (unless it happened at the US port, or close to it, the local PD would have no jurisdiction), but was it really so bad you feel he needs criminally punished rather than punished/terminated by NCL?
At best, what he did was simple assult (mistermeaner), since it happened in another country or international waters it may not even qualify as that.[/quote]

Well not only is it a misdemeanor, she was a juvenile. More likely he wasn't.... so a lot more people tend to look at that as more of a problem then "bad taste". Between the comment, the intent, the actual physical touch;and her being a minor, if it was in any sexual way then this siutation may be looked upon/deemed as a sexual predator. I don't care how bad taste it is, an 18 year old and a 13 year old...something is not right. I know he just "touched her arm", but still...he pulled her into him. That pushed the line......

And no matter what taste or no matter what situation she was in, he had no right to put a finger on her. You just don't do that, I don't care what your job is or what you think is appropriate.

PLUS, you don't know this guys background. Maybe he has a wrap sheet for this...maybe he is on megans law. And I know I'm gonna get "how did he get a job on the cruise ship?".....so naive, it happens, in a lot of fields that you would NEVER expect. My point is in todays society, you don't know who your neighbors are. If someone lays a finger on you, thats assault...simple as that, or at least disorderly persons charge

I really appreciate you for putting this post up OP. Your a good mother, looking out for your child. More people have to be aware and not take this so lightly.

*This is all my opinion...and my own personal thought. I am not trying to offend anyone or push any buttons.

[QuickieGlenn]

As I read the OP thread I knew the guy she was talking about
We met him in Feb as he was running the booze taste table and thruout the cruise he kept asking my wife if she wanted a drink. I think that is just his way of being friendly...borderline hitting on my wife...did we take it the wrong way...no way

I wasn't there ...and you have the right to your own opinions ...but I think thats the way they get along with the passengers

[lil buddy]

While I respect your concerns, I have to wonder why you didn't take action while on the ship. I know you said, more came to light after the cruise, but from what I read, you knew he had made a "rude" remark ( which you don't recall) and that you didn't want her alone in the gift shop again. Then he touched her arm and made another remark that offended you yet you waited till you got home....posted here and then contacted NCL. This perhaps is my biggest confusion. I would have been complaining while on the ship and I certaianly would have made it a point to get the man's name. I don't negate your feelings but as I stated before, I think you may be overreacting to an innocent or at best rude action.
But I really would appreciate hearing more about the reason for waiting, especially since so many family members were there and saw or heard the incident.
Thank you for pointing out to all of us, how careful we must be, even on vacation.

[falken]

[quote name='Got2Cruise']In this day and age, it is not appropriate for strangers to pick up, or cuddle any child. The OP brings up a good point. Cruiseships are not danger-free to young people. This is just another reminder. I am not saying what his particuluar employee did was criminal behavior, just that there are hundreds of employees on the cruiseship, many of them don't work in "public", but can be predators to young people.[/quote]

Sad, but true... "in this day and age" the media has everyone so worked up that anyone who touches you or your children is going to rape, abuse and/or kidnap them. Everyone in the world is plotting to get you, let your gaurd down for one minute and that is the end!

[WinterSky]

[quote name='briansnel']All things aside the OP followed her intuition regarding the circumstances. When a mother, or a woman, feels intuitively something is wrong LISTEN TO HER. She may have exaggerated the situation but if her senses said NO, I believe she is spot on. And coming from a developing country, without the "American paranoia", we still have much physical affection amongst strangers, but even here mothers 'just know' when a line is being crossed.
And worst cased scenario she may have faulted on the side of caution. Her daughter now knows her mother has her back and this guy knows what he did could be seen in this manner (presuming his innocence)[/quote]

You speak the voice of (informed) reason! You post needs to be quoted for emphasis! They say expressing something three times will cause it to be remembered - okay people, one more repetition of this quote.

WinterSky

[newmexicoNita]

I am one that also wonders why something was not done while the OP was still on the ship? did the young man step over the boarder, it sounds like maybe he did and needs some counciling on what is and is not acceptable. Did the incident warrent being reported after the fact? In my opinion probably not. Let's hope that all that comes of this is a lecture to the young man and nothing more. I would hate to think of him being disicplined or maybe loosing his job over something that could have been just kids play. Now I will get flamed I am sure.

Nita

[falken]

[quote name='BeachBumMama']
I'd much rather have a child think I'm distant for not giving them a hug, than for them to fall into the trap of a predator. It might be frustrating for you because you mean no harm. But many people do mean harm. And maybe society is paranoid about it, but if it saves at least one child, that's not a bad thing.[/quote]

Ah. Guilty until proven innocent, got to love it!
If you gathered up all the children and kept them in sterile protected enviroments, alone and secured agianst human interaction until they were 21 you would probably save hundreds of thousands of them from predators, accidents, diseases, heartbreaks, bad experiences, etc. Think of all the good that could do?

[suzyed]

[quote name='WinterSky']You speak the voice of (informed) reason! You post needs to be quoted for emphasis! They say expressing something three times will cause it to be remembered - okay people, one more repetition of this quote.

WinterSky[/quote]
Here it is!
Everyone has made excellent points! Perhaps reporting this incident AFTER the fact, will lead to better training of ALL the staff and not target this particular individual. It didn't sound like this Mom wanted this guy to get in trouble or fired, but really wanted it to be pointed out that his behavior may have crossed the line. It also sounded to me, that she was looking for feedback from all of us on the boards...a second opionion if you will. I applaud her for that.
When I told my DH about this, his first response was, "did she look 13". Typical kneejerk response...but then I reminded him what had happened with our daughter on a few occasions and he stated..."you are right, no one should touch anyone else at any time, esp, a male on a young girl".

[WinterSky]

[quote name='newmexicoNita']I am one that also wonders why something was not done while the OP was still on the ship? did the young man step over the boarder, it sounds like maybe he did and needs some counciling on what is and is not acceptable. Did the incident warrent being reported after the fact? In my opinion probably not. Let's hope that all that comes of this is a lecture to the young man and nothing more. I would hate to think of him being disicplined or maybe loosing his job over something that could have been just kids play. Now I will get flamed I am sure.

Nita[/quote]

I actually hate to disagree with you Nita as my thinking is usually quite in line with your posts.

I believe that during their second encounter with this young man in the gift shop, while the mother was busy with her purchase, her mother-in-law, the grandmother witnessed the physical contact and spoke out to the young man. My understanding is that the mother did not know that her daughter had been physically touched until they were at home and discussing their trip. I also believe that it wasn't simply a touch on the arm, but rather that the young man reached around the girl from behind, crossing his arm across her front and grasping her wrist and then drawing her in against his body. In this positiion, even an older, more experienced woman could not have easily extricated herself. Remember all the while, that this was a total stranger working in a position of trust. Had the mother seen this physical exchange, there is no doubt that she would have visited the captain and hotel manager while on board.

This young man, at the very least, needs to be reprimanded and educated.

WinterSky