Delta Now Charging to Use Sky Miles.....

[sail7seas]

Delta Airlines announced a $25 surcharge to use SkyMiles between U.S. and Canada and domestically. There is now a $50 surcharge for SkyMile tickets for International flights (other than U.S. to Canada).

http://www.forbes.com/afxnewslimited/feeds/afx/2008/06/27/afx5162191.html

[Krazy Kruizers]

I heard about that.

 

Even though we have cruised Delta a lot and do have some more flights scheduled with them, we have never earned enough miles to get an award.

[smeyer418]

its not on;y Delta

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/28/business/28delta.html?hp

 

and remember free isn't totally free there are still taxes and airport fees to be paid.

[luvtahiti]

This is part of the notice from Delta:

 

Escalating fuel prices continue to impact our world economy, everyday life and the airline industry. Due to continued, unprecedented fuel costs, we will add the following fuel surcharge to Award Tickets originating from the U.S. and Canada, effective August 15, 2008:

• $25 for Award Travel between the 50 states and Canada
  
• $50 for Award Travel between the 50 states/Canada and all international destinations

This was a difficult but essential decision to ensure we are doing everything possible to offset the cost of fuel which has nearly doubled in the last year. This fuel surcharge will not impact any existing ticketed Award itineraries or any future Award Tickets issued prior to August 15, 2008, regardless of the date of travel. We hope this is temporary, and should fuel prices subside from current levels, we will reevaluate this surcharge.

[steve20832]

Northwest (Also part of SkyTeam) charged me $10 when I used some miles last month.

[Krazy Kruizers]

I believe that nearly all the airlines are charing when you redeem air miles.

[nho9504]

Free is the airfare itself, but every single FF program charges taxes and fees on award tickets.

 

The fees can be avoided, if you can book your awards online (not possible when open jaw / stop over / partner airlines are involved), otherwise you have to pay for telephone booking fee. If you book your awards less than 21 days before departure date, you pay expedite fee, the closer to departure date, the higher (I think there is 3 tiers in AA's program). Top tier elites are exempt from such fees, of course.

 

DL has long charged Fuel Surcharge for award tickets ORIGINATING FROM EUROPE, i.e. your ticket is Europe / XX / Europe. The fuel surcharges are in the range of $200 to $300.

 

All European airlines have fuel surchages in their award tickets. BA's and LH's can be as high as $500.

 

I paid $149 government tax and $15 phone booking fee per person, on our 2 AA business class awards Europe / US / Europe - for a total of $299xx + $30.

 

Only the infrequent flyers can still have the notion that free ticket means you dont pay a dime to fly - as far as I know, I have NEVER redeemed an award ticket that I dont need to pay for the tax, ever since we started actively pursuiting award travel 5 years ago.

[FlyerTalker]

Security fees are also tacked onto FF tickets, along with any international customs/immigration fees.

[nho9504]

Security fees are also tacked onto FF tickets, along with any international customs/immigration fees.

 

I consider all government-related charges TAXES, eventhough they name it fees.

 

One of the most blatant example was the Airport usage / expansion "fee" charged by YVR a few years ago - it was not charged when ticketed, but charged when you got thru security, before US immigration. Totally ridiculous - why the Canadians not simply called it Airport Tax, and be upfront about it?! This is not like the airports in Australia and New Zealand, those are operated by private companies. I believe YVR is government operated. And they should just add that "fee" to airport departure tax, like many airports in Asia do. and built that in the final calculation of the ticket. OTOH, given Canadian airports have notorious taxes already, I guess it would really PO travellers when they tag on yet another tax.

 

I just priced a CO flight from FLL to SEA or to YVR - the tax to SEA is 31xx, the tax to YVR is 61xx, about doubled that of to SEA.

[SelectSys]

...One of the most blatant example was the Airport usage / expansion "fee" charged by YVR a few years ago - it was not charged when ticketed, but charged when you got thru security, before US immigration...

 

I just flew in and out of YVR a couple of weeks ago. The airport improvement tax/fee isn't being collected anymore - at least not directly. It is probably bundled in with the other taxes now.

[DanJ]

Most Canadian airports are run by local airport authorities, not the government, and most have some sort of AIF. These are to pay for the terminal rebuilds/expansions they all had to do after the government got out of the airports business. All the government does is charge huge rents to the airport authorities now. Also, our air traffic control system is a private company as well (NAV Canada), and there fees are added to the fair.

 

Moncton New Brunswick used to have a desk that you walked by right

after security, and you had to give them 10 bucks. No money, no entry. They just have it built into the taxes/fees part of the fare now as well.

[nho9504]

Most Canadian airports are run by local airport authorities, not the government, and most have some sort of AIF. These are to pay for the terminal rebuilds/expansions they all had to do after the government got out of the airports business. All the government does is charge huge rents to the airport authorities now. Also, our air traffic control system is a private company as well (NAV Canada), and there fees are added to the fair.

 

Moncton New Brunswick used to have a desk that you walked by right

after security, and you had to give them 10 bucks. No money, no entry. They just have it built into the taxes/fees part of the fare now as well.

 

Wow, thanks for the info. I do not know that. I always am under the impression that the Canadian airports are still government operated. So are the airport authorities private companies or they are run by the local governments, just not the commonwealth government?

[DanJ]

I think the airport authorities are quasi-governmental non-profit organizations. Most of them have board of directors nominated from the local, provincial and federal governments.

[nho9504]

I think the airport authorities are quasi-governmental non-profit organizations. Most of them have board of directors nominated from the local, provincial and federal governments.

 

Then they ARE government-run in my book.

 

On the other hand, the airports in Australia and New Zealand are 100% private companies owned, for profit operations.

 

Hence I asked the clarification. A quaisi government is still government when it comes to government subsidies and taxes. :(

[DanJ]

I'm not sure what difference it makes whether it's a private company or a government owned non-profit. They all cost money to run, and at least with local authorities doing it, they have actually made the airports nicer and better run than some bureaucracy in Ottawa deciding how taxpayer money should be spent. An airport like Toronto went overboard on the Taj Mahal spending for the new terminal, but it's still the users that pay for it, not the taxpayers. And terminal 3 is privately owned but it still costs the same to use as the authority-owned terminal 1.

 

If those Aussie airports are truly private operations, then some company must have come along, bought the thousands of acres of land, and spent the billions to build an airport there, with no taxpayer support at all. I can't imagine what Sydney for example, charges their 30-odd million passengers a year to pay that debt and still make a profit.

 

You also forgot in your FLL-SEA compared to YVR example that you are dealing with 2 different governments and air traffic controls systems when you fly transborder, so naturally the fees and taxes will be more.

[nho9504]

Dont know, but Canadian airport taxes are high up there only LHR is worse for all the places we travel, from Europe to North America to Asia to Australia / New Zealand.

 

fwiw, we recently flew BCN/MAD/ZRH - surely crossed border for 2 countries, and from a EU to NON-EU, Schangen to NON-Schengan countries too. I dont see that makes any difference.

 

Basically Canada is just a quaisi Solicialist State, and its taxation system truly reflects that.

 

And, the Canadian airports are not any nicer than other airports we came accross.

[DanJ]

Well, I guess we like to be able to go to a hospital and not have it cost us half a years salary. But you guys will be there soon enough, and your taxes will reflect that as well

 

As for the taxes. I also did some comparison shopping. Toronto-Vancouver had $73 in sales taxes , airport improvement and security fees.

 

Toronto-Ft Lauderdale had $107 in fees and taxes. $56 of that was Canadian and $51 was US. The Canadian fees were for airport improvement fee, air traveller security charge, and the goods and services tax (which is the 5% national sales tax). The US was Sept 11th fee, US immigration fee, USA transportation tax, USA agricultural fee (?), and US passenger facility charge.

 

So tell me again how our tax system is so screwed up compared to yours? And why again is it that it bothers you when something is a fee and something else is a tax?

[nho9504]

Well, I guess we like to be able to go to a hospital and not have it cost us half a years salary. But you guys will be there soon enough, and your taxes will reflect that as well

 

As for the taxes. I also did some comparison shopping. Toronto-Vancouver had $73 in sales taxes , airport improvement and security fees.

 

Toronto-Ft Lauderdale had $107 in fees and taxes. $56 of that was Canadian and $51 was US. The Canadian fees were for airport improvement fee, air traveller security charge, and the goods and services tax (which is the 5% national sales tax). The US was Sept 11th fee, US immigration fee, USA transportation tax, USA agricultural fee (?), and US passenger facility charge.

 

So tell me again how our tax system is so screwed up compared to yours? And why again is it that it bothers you when something is a fee and something else is a tax?

 

But you have to WAIT forever if you are not an emergency case. Many your fellow Canadians have to come to US to pay for the operations they need but could not wait to receive in Canada eventhough it may cost them a lot less in $, but it could cost them their dear lives.

 

I have families live in both coasts of Canada and I believe I understand certain aspects of how your healthcare system works. In some cases, the system is literally harming the receipients health because the patients could not get proper care in time.

 

I consider ALL the US fees are just another forms of government taxes, too. The only difference is in the method of calculation - the tax is based on a percentage, such as Exercise tax. The fee is a set-amount based on segment or trip, nothing to do with fare. They are still a form of tax, in my book.

 

The Canadian airports have LOST a lot of passengers revenues because many Canadians who can fly out of BUF and SEA, choose to drive there to do so. I know our friends and families often do that - the taxes they saved, often more than enough to pay for the gas and parking when they are travelling as several persons together.

[Shorex]

Delta Airlines announced a $25 surcharge to use SkyMiles between U.S. and Canada and domestically. There is now a $50 surcharge for SkyMile tickets for International flights (other than U.S. to Canada).

http://www.forbes.com/afxnewslimited/feeds/afx/2008/06/27/afx5162191.html

 

There are essentially three ways for an airline (in this case DL) to devalue their miles. One is to decrease availability of award seats. Second is to increase the number of hoops that the passenger must jump through in order to book an award seat. (This only partially overlaps the first method.) Casual flyers will give up the quest for an award seat because of the search barriers created by the airline. Third is to increase the price of a "free" ticket, both in terms of dollars (fees and surcharges) and in terms of miles spent.

 

Here's part of a recent announcement from DL:

 

"Additionally, we will keep you updated on the launch of our new multi-tiered Award program and other key initiatives over the next 60 days."

 

"Delta plans to launch a new set of tiers for awards. Instead of offering SkyMiles tickets for 25,000 or 50,000 miles, Delta will open all available seats for award bookings. A limited number of SkyMiles awards will be offered for 25,000 miles, about half of its available inventory for 40,000 miles and the remainder for 60,000 miles."

 

In English, the "price" of a "free" domestic ticket will increase to as much as 60,000 miles. As for chances of finding future domestic award seats for 25,000 miles, see methods one and two for devaluing miles. May the force be with you. No word yet on how the price of international award seats will increase; even if DL uses the same ratio, the news isn't good.

 

Our strategy is to "spend" DL miles now, on international first/business seats as much as possible, before all we can get is a "free" ticket to Duluth in January.

[DanJ]

 

Here's part of a recent announcement from DL:

 

"Additionally, we will keep you updated on the launch of our new multi-tiered Award program and other key initiatives over the next 60 days."

 

"Delta plans to launch a new set of tiers for awards. Instead of offering SkyMiles tickets for 25,000 or 50,000 miles, Delta will open all available seats for award bookings. A limited number of SkyMiles awards will be offered for 25,000 miles, about half of its available inventory for 40,000 miles and the remainder for 60,000 miles."

 

 

Air Canada has been doing this for a couple years now, as part of their strategy of spinning their FF program into a separate company. Basically, every seat is an award seat if you want to spend the miles on it. There are some very interesting international business routes only available for several hundred thousand miles now LOL.