$14.95 for STEAK???

[Merion_Mom]

Now see, I would be totally against charging for the kids programs. I don't have kids, but I want to have someplace for them to go, and me be exposed to fewer of them on a ship. :cool: I would much rather prefer that people have to pay to keep their young'uns OUT of the kids program and that the kids programming was mandatory. :D

 

I am happy to have kids programming rolled into my cruise fare, and wish that more people would take advantage of it. ;)

 

I am LAUGHING MY BUTT OFF at this post!

 

Love it, OttoCal!!!!

 

[bplazo]

Maybe they could have more adult areas and charge for that!

[2112]

I think they should build ships with shortcuts to get from one part of the ship to the other faster and charge for that. You could still take the long way around the outside of the ship, for free - it's a choice.

[amybear912]

At least on the cruise ship I have alternatives to what I eat and drink at no extra charge; try bringing your own water or cola on an airplane! :mad:

 

I had absolutely NO problems bringing my own beverage and lunch on our flights last week... provided I purchased them AFTER going through security... But I noticed that is the route airports seem to be going.... there were a number of little kiosks where you could purchase wrapped sandwiches and snack, plenty of bottled drinks....

 

I would much rather do it this way because then at least I have options on what to eat or drink or not to at all....

 

I think it is disgusting that like many other businesses they have chosen to cut back to compete rather than charge a fair price for the product. But we have been accepting "cutting back" by businesses for 30 years. I remember clearly in college working at a mom and pop restaurant and it was always "cut back, cut back" on portions. Not increase price, cut back portions.

 

Not directed specifically at you temple1 but... exactly what industries do you folks work in where cutbacks and changes are NOT implemented in order to increase profitability... Profitability, BTW, allows for executives to snag some really nice bonuses and perks... ;)

 

BTW to the original topic of steak. I cannot find it anywhere in my cruise contract that steak will be on the menu every night.

 

EXACTLY!!!!!! No where in the contract or even advertisements of cruising are you GUARANTEED any specific dish or entree at any time... Hell, remember The Great Lobster Debate of Early '08?????

 

Incidentally, this extra steak charge was NOT present on our ship last week... we didn't even notice that the option of steak wasn't there... It wasn't until I returned home, saw this debate and DH and I said, "Oh yeah, it wasn't on the menu"... What was offered as "alternative" dining seemed to be marketed as a healthful alternative, which is what I thought that particular menu was supposed to be about anyway, maybe I was mistaken...

 

Yeah... there was lots of pasta and fish...

 

But then again, we don't cruise for the food and it isn't a major consideration in our choice of who to cruise with... If it were, we would choose a line that had food as their focus...

[2112]

EXACTLY!!!!!! No where in the contract or even advertisements of cruising are you GUARANTEED any specific dish or entree at any time... Hell, remember The Great Lobster Debate of Early '08?????

 

Have you actually read your cruise contract? Actually, if you read cruise contracts some actually say that there is no assurance that the ship is seaworthy (or something to that effect). Yes, those contracts are written by lawyers and don't guarantee anything at all, even the ability of your ship to float, so even though a cruise line doesn't have to provide anything at all, I really have come to expect that the ship will float, get me from place to place safely, and that I can find something good to eat.

[lysolqn]

It was my review of our Freedom of the Seas sailing last week with its mention of the $14.95 steak alternative that was the catalyst for this almost-300-post thread which has taken on a life of its own. It never occurred to me that a passing comment I made about RCCL being a bit too commercial for our liking would touch such a raw nerve. Not having sailed with Royal Caribbean in about eight years, we just assumed the upgrade charge for a steak alternative in the dining room was the norm on all RCCL ships and not something just being introduced on FOS. Nor did I have any idea that the $14.95 steak replaced a steak alternative that was otherwise offered without charge, assuming the charge for steak was in the same category as the $4.95 charge for fresh-squeezed oj at breakfast. My apologies for being the bearer of such bad tidings; I hope you'll read my review and see that the comment was truly made in passing and never was intended to cause such an uproar.

[EscapeFromConnecticut]

Rather absurd to tell people who have an opinion other than defending the cruiseline to go elsewhere. If that were to happen this cruiseline could find itself in huge trouble. Since they are coming out with ships that hold a minimium of 5400 I am inclined to believe they need MORE passengers not less.

 

Interesting point Lynnees - and one that the Kool-Aid Krewe can't seem to answer.

It's very possible to question whether building gargantuan ships with extraordinarily high built-in costs was wise, particularly with the economy already showing signs of trouble more than a year ago.

So if RCL must get increasingly desperate in its onboard revenue cash grabs, perhaps the motivation isn't entirely from "factors beyond their control" such as inflation, meat prices, oil prices, or competition. Rather, it may be that the exec corps blundered and took on a boatload of debt going into a consumer-confidence crisis and a major recession. One could make the case for management incompetence.

And if that's the case, let's consider the $15 steak idea AFTER we read about RCL laying off a few levels of senior management, bagging the '08 and '09 exec bonuses, beefing up accountability requirements for the board, and cutting Fain, Rice and Goldstein to $250,000 each for the year. :D

[temple1]

I had absolutely NO problems bringing my own beverage and lunch on our flights last week... provided I purchased them AFTER going through security... But I noticed that is the route airports seem to be going.... there were a number of little kiosks where you could purchase wrapped sandwiches and snack, plenty of bottled drinks.... - But it is not your choice where you buy the drink.

 

 

Not directed specifically at you temple1 but... exactly what industries do you folks work in where cutbacks and changes are NOT implemented in order to increase profitability... Profitability, BTW, allows for executives to snag some really nice bonuses and perks... ;) - Yes, but at what point does the cut backs affect the bottom line because consumers are looking elsewhere to spend their $$?

 

 

EXACTLY!!!!!! No where in the contract or even advertisements of cruising are you GUARANTEED any specific dish or entree at any time... Hell, remember The Great Lobster Debate of Early '08????? I'm trying to forget said lobster debate. As much as I love seafood I have never tried the lobster. Maybe because I'm a coastal person and prefer fresh?

 

But then again, we don't cruise for the food and it isn't a major consideration in our choice of who to cruise with... If it were, we would choose a line that had food as their focus...My point also. Until the cutbacks are to the point where the food is not enjoyable or we are comparing it to Red Lobster or Ryan's Steakhosue we will stay.

 

My point about pricing is there is a point where the corps have to make a decision about what product they are offering and who their client base is. The decision for each and every consumer is at what point is how much cutting will they accept before walking away. Unfortunately in this country we have been trained to accept less and less in some convoluted argument that I really don't understand. :confused:

[amybear912]

Have you actually read your cruise contract? Actually, if you read cruise contracts some actually say that there is no assurance that the ship is seaworthy (or something to that effect). Yes, those contracts are written by lawyers and don't guarantee anything at all, even the ability of your ship to float, so even though a cruise line doesn't have to provide anything at all, I really have come to expect that the ship will float, get me from place to place safely, and that I can find something good to eat.

 

 

Actually, I have read the cruise contract... I find that sort of stuff fascinating...

 

But this is about a steak, not whether the vessel is seaworthy or not... You can hardly compare those two issues... that's an apples to well, steak, comparison...

 

And you can find something to eat... there is plenty of food - but to expect that there will be steak available to you each night is a bit unreasonable and not guaranteed or otherwise promised in any sort of way....

 

Now, if I paid to eat at Chops and arrived to find that they weren't serving any steaks... then we've got an issue...

[EscapeFromConnecticut]

Have you actually read your cruise contract? Actually, if you read cruise contracts some actually say that there is no assurance that the ship is seaworthy (or something to that effect). Yes, those contracts are written by lawyers and don't guarantee anything at all, even the ability of your ship to float, so even though a cruise line doesn't have to provide anything at all, I really have come to expect that the ship will float, get me from place to place safely, and that I can find something good to eat.

 

Here's tonight's puzzle, 2112 (and of course the rest of the board is invited to play, too) ...

For years now, some CC members have eagerly - often gleefully - raised the notoriously one-sided cruise contract when jeering at cruisers who've come here to ask questions or make complaints.

In some of those situations, the responses made sense: A new cruiser balked because weather kept them from their Labadee stop, and they insisted they're entitled to compensation. Oh well, the contract clearly specifies that ports aren't guaranteed, and logic dictates that the cruise line would've been reckless to jeopardize passengers' safety ... and we can all understand the reaction to introduce them to the realities of cruising.

 

But many other times, the original posters' complaints are perfectly reasonable. Yet the Kool Aid Krowd is frothing at the fangs to trot out yet another odious and viciously anti-consumer clause in the contract, always with a snide attitude of "See, they owe you nothing, NOTHING! Just be grateful for whatever you got!"

And truly, I don't get it. Where does that slavish and often warped attitude come from?

What exactly do these people get from worshipping an exploitive document cooked up by a brigade of $1,000-an-hour corporate lawyers, designed to back middle-class customers into the narrowest legal corner imaginable? And all of it to protect the treasuries of billion-dollar, publicly traded corporations? And soley to keep average taxpaying, job-holding citizens from having any recourse unless those corporations commit premeditated violence?

What's the motivation?

- Anger at other cruisers?

Yes, I understand resentment against the other end of the spectrum. I, too, dislike the whiners who expect freebies, handouts, comps, upgrades and apologies for everything that occurs on board. But that's a very limited segment of the CC community, and the hostility toward them shouldn't extend beyond that.

- Personal profit?

Nobody here owns enough CCL or RCL for the day-to-day operations stuff to mean anything. Nobody. (Well, we might suspect a couple of corporate shills are here masquerading as customers - but that would account for two or three posters at most. Besides, the Kool Aiders fashion their arguments amateurishly, so it's unlikely they're high up on any cruise line's payroll)

- To feel ... superior? Powerful? Capable?

In a David vs. Goliath style struggle, honorable people generally root for the underdog unless there's great reason not to. Here, we have whole contingent that's shouting "You go, Goliath! Stomp him!! Harder!!"

If some of the boards were pro-wrestling matches, you'd be seeing the "Royal Caribbean can do no wrong" crowd cheering while the bad guy sneaks up with a metal chair and clocks the ref.

So the question remains: What's motivating the Kool Aid Corps?

[temple1]

When I mentioned reading the cruise contract, that was SARCASM for people who get so worked up about every little thing. :p

[Tranquil Waters]

Actually, I have read the cruise contract... I find that sort of stuff fascinating...

 

But this is about a steak, not whether the vessel is seaworthy or not... You can hardly compare those two issues... that's an apples to well, steak, comparison...

 

And you can find something to eat... there is plenty of food - but to expect that there will be steak available to you each night is a bit unreasonable and not guaranteed or otherwise promised in any sort of way....

 

Now, if I paid to eat at Chops and arrived to find that they weren't serving any steaks... then we've got an issue...

 

Neither are you promised any other specific food. From what you say, it should also be OK if all they served was spam, hotdogs, chicken noodle soup, mac & cheese, etc all week long. As long as there is plenty of it. Certainly nothing else is guaranteed in any sort of way. :rolleyes: And just think you can order as many servings of that mac & cheese as you want! Yum, yum, choices everywhere.

 

The point - for me - is that each change is an insidious and planned "dummying down" of quality. And RCI slowly tries to slide each change out. Do it a little differently on each ship - so it will all look like a bunch of rumors. See how much flack they get. Wait til the dust settles. Then move on to the next cut and next charge (whoops, choice, I keep forgetting it is a "choice".) And the whole process starts again.....

 

I realize the example I gave is a bit over the top but it is only to make a point. Just where is the tipping point where people say - enough! Some of us think it is better to voice our objections loud and clear - now - while the horse/cow/steak :D is still in the barn. It will be too late to voice that objection when the mack and cheese hits your plate. ;)

[amybear912]

My point about pricing is there is a point where the corps have to make a decision about what product they are offering and who their client base is. The decision for each and every consumer is at what point is how much cutting will they accept before walking away. Unfortunately in this country we have been trained to accept less and less in some convoluted argument that I really don't understand. :confused:

 

I agree with you wholeheartedly temple (as I usually do)....

 

The answer is that corporations will cut and cut until it hurts the over-paid executives and/or they notice their customer base shrinking because someone else comes along and responds to the demand by providing the product the consumer misses... Then, they bring in a whole slew of NEW executives with "fresh" ideas about how to regain their marketshare... this is what capitalism is all about and it has worked beautifully for quite some time... it's actually what helps companies continue to thrive for years on end because it allows them to continue to evolve and paint themselves with a fresh face ever so often...

[amybear912]

Neither are you promised any other specific food. From what you say, it should also be OK if all they served was spam, hotdogs, chicken noodle soup, mac & cheese, etc all week long. As long as there is plenty of it. Certainly nothing else is guaranteed in any sort of way. :rolleyes: And just think you can order as many servings of that mac & cheese as you want! Yum, yum, choices everywhere.

 

 

It's funny you should mention the hot dogs and such... my original response actually included that but I thought better.... I didn't want to get anyone's panties in a bunch thinking they were getting a 4th of July picnic onboard...;) But you're right... as soon as my meals look like something out of a school cafeteria - well, I might as well pitch a tent somewhere if that's the case...

 

For me... the tipping point is when I get off a ship and say to myself... that wasn't worth the money I paid or when the SUM of my experience is just bad or my experience deviates too far from the advertisment of the product... so far that hasn't happened...

 

For what it's worth... we noticed a lot of differences last week on our Enchanment cruise vs. our cruise last year on Mariner... not the sort of changes that are necessarily ship-specific but the cuts were noticed... however, having been a CC member for a few years now, I knew what I was getting into and expected to see what I saw... I've followed this debate for a while and truly enjoy the views I see... it is entertaining to say the least...

 

It was still an economical vacation for us though... and met our expectations... But when DH filled out the survey at the end, he had a few more "fair" markings than last year... especially where the food was concerned... as he said, "nothing 'wowed' me"...

 

But I also don't consider myself a Kool-Aide cruiser either... a savvy consumer-definitely but I'm not willing to limit myself to one specific cruiseline... for right now, RC provides a product that meets (not exceeds) my expectations for the amount of money I am paying...

[EscapeFromConnecticut]

With all respect I have to disagree with POST #165. Presumably steak is still being offered on the regular menu just not every night.

 

Why EVER did you presume that? (You were 100% wrong, of course, as the posts below prove. ... But what led you to make such a presumption in the first place?)

 

So again, the decision to buy or not to buy is still a choice.

 

Well, that would be correct ... except that it's wrong.

Try again on Post 165. But first, read 32, 39 and 68. The key points from the people who were actually there:

 

From DPurcell58:

"st off the Freedom also and the steak from Chops was offered for $14.95, no other steak on Alternative menu."

From lysolqun:

"other than the $14.95 upgrade, there was no steak offered as an alternative on the regular dinner menu."

"the $14.95 'upgrade' is not in addition to the alternate steak selection; it IS the alternate steak selection.

"I did read the entire menu - every night; it's pretty hard NOT to notice the price for the steak selection since it's smack dab in the middle of the menu and is boxed and in bold print."

 

So here's the deal on "choices" - RCL took 2 alternatives and reduced them to 1.

That was NOT adding choices.

This isn't a matter of my opinion, tastes or preferences; it's simply kindergarten-level math. And it's irrefutable.

Now naturally, we call all disagree about the quality of those alternatives, the fairness of the change, etc.

Perhaps you wish to argue that fewer choices are better, that paying more is better, that getting less is better. Indeed, several people here seem eager to have the $15 steak replace the free one; I disagree, but that's their opinion.

But you cannot argue that RCL's move was about adding "choices," any more than you can argue that a blue heron is really a CSX freight train. It simply isn't so.

When posting on this thread, keep in mind the principles of clear thinking:

You're always entitled to your own opinions. :)

But you are NOT entitled to your own facts. :rolleyes:

[Tranquil Waters]

It's funny you should mention the hot dogs and such... my original response actually included that but I thought better.... I didn't want to get anyone's panties in a bunch thinking they were getting a 4th of July picnic onboard...;) But you're right... as soon as my meals look like something out of a school cafeteria - well, I might as well pitch a tent somewhere if that's the case...

 

For me... the tipping point is when I get off a ship and say to myself... that wasn't worth the money I paid or when the SUM of my experience is just bad or my experience deviates too far from the advertisment of the product... so far that hasn't happened...

 

For what it's worth... we noticed a lot of differences last week on our Enchanment cruise vs. our cruise last year on Mariner... not the sort of changes that are necessarily ship-specific but the cuts were noticed... however, having been a CC member for a few years now, I knew what I was getting into and expected to see what I saw... I've followed this debate for a while and truly enjoy the views I see... it is entertaining to say the least...

 

It was still an economical vacation for us though... and met our expectations... But when DH filled out the survey at the end, he had a few more "fair" markings than last year... especially where the food was concerned... as he said, "nothing 'wowed' me"...

 

But I also don't consider myself a Kool-Aide cruiser either... a savvy consumer-definitely but I'm not willing to limit myself to one specific cruiseline... for right now, RC provides a product that meets (not exceeds) my expectations for the amount of money I am paying...

 

I really don't think most of CC members are Kool Aiders. :o It is just sometimes easier and quicker to use a term that expresses the general idea you are trying to portray. But it can have the downside of having your audience up in arms before they even read your point. :D

 

We will see how long any resolve to not slip into that particular failing again lasts. ;)

[lysolqn]

Here's tonight's puzzle, 2112 (and of course the rest of the board is invited to play, too) ...

For years now, some CC members have eagerly - often gleefully - raised the notoriously one-sided cruise contract when jeering at cruisers who've come here to ask questions or make complaints.

In some of those situations, the responses made sense: A new cruiser balked because weather kept them from their Labadee stop, and they insisted they're entitled to compensation. Oh well, the contract clearly specifies that ports aren't guaranteed, and logic dictates that the cruise line would've been reckless to jeopardize passengers' safety ... and we can all understand the reaction to introduce them to the realities of cruising.

 

But many other times, the original posters' complaints are perfectly reasonable. Yet the Kool Aid Krowd is frothing at the fangs to trot out yet another odious and viciously anti-consumer clause in the contract, always with a snide attitude of "See, they owe you nothing, NOTHING! Just be grateful for whatever you got!"

And truly, I don't get it. Where does that slavish and often warped attitude come from?

What exactly do these people get from worshipping an exploitive document cooked up by a brigade of $1,000-an-hour corporate lawyers, designed to back middle-class customers into the narrowest legal corner imaginable? And all of it to protect the treasuries of billion-dollar, publicly traded corporations? And soley to keep average taxpaying, job-holding citizens from having any recourse unless those corporations commit premeditated violence?

What's the motivation?

- Anger at other cruisers?

Yes, I understand resentment against the other end of the spectrum. I, too, dislike the whiners who expect freebies, handouts, comps, upgrades and apologies for everything that occurs on board. But that's a very limited segment of the CC community, and the hostility toward them shouldn't extend beyond that.

- Personal profit?

Nobody here owns enough CCL or RCL for the day-to-day operations stuff to mean anything. Nobody. (Well, we might suspect a couple of corporate shills are here masquerading as customers - but that would account for two or three posters at most. Besides, the Kool Aiders fashion their arguments amateurishly, so it's unlikely they're high up on any cruise line's payroll)

- To feel ... superior? Powerful? Capable?

In a David vs. Goliath style struggle, honorable people generally root for the underdog unless there's great reason not to. Here, we have whole contingent that's shouting "You go, Goliath! Stomp him!! Harder!!"

If some of the boards were pro-wrestling matches, you'd be seeing the "Royal Caribbean can do no wrong" crowd cheering while the bad guy sneaks up with a metal chair and clocks the ref.

So the question remains: What's motivating the Kool Aid Corps?

 

The answer to tonight's puzzle is all of the above and none of the above.

 

What motivates the Kool Aid Krowd here (and it's no different on any of the other cruise line boards on CC!) is the unusual sense of ownership they develop regarding their favorite cruise line. It's THEIR cruise line and any criticism, constructive or otherwise, is taken extremely personally. Say something they don't want to hear about THEIR cruise line and the gloves come off. They become as defensive and dangerous as a mother bear who senses her cubs are being threatened.

[icruiz2]

Ok, I said I wasn't going to post anymore on this thread, but I lied. :o

 

I am just continually amazed on the number of people posting that are missing the big picture.

 

I really like RCCL, I do. Never had a complaint and we never even consider other cruiselines. I have no problem with Chops, Portifino's, Johnny Rocket's, etc., having surcharges. IMO, these are "extras" that you pay for, if you choose to. I, also, understand the "cost of doing business". I get that. When costs to RCCL go up, and they need to recoup, it passes on to us. I would much rather see, for instance, a $.50 increase on cocktails (and, yes, DH and I DO drink) or something to that effect. Because THAT is something I understand. When I am in a restaurant or bar and the price of something shows an increase, I may notice it, but it doesn't put me off. Costs of doing business, times are tough across the board.

 

BUT when you start messing with the MDR, then the changes are NOT going to stop with steak. Would you like desert? Just $3.95 to your sea pass card. I do see many people posted similar examples already. I have also seen that some posters state that "that's ok", but, I guarantee, that an a la carte menu is NOT ok with the majority of people cruising. It really isn't just about steak, it's about changes about to come......

[OttoCal]

I am LAUGHING MY BUTT OFF at this post!

 

Love it, OttoCal!!!!

 

 

Thanks Merion Mom!! Glad someone got it! :cool:

[Coralc]

Just a comment...I don't think the upcharge steak will work very well on ships without a Chops. :) How are they going to sell it? Pay $14.95 for a steak from our wonderful steakhouse on (some other ship). Order it and we will bring it right over. What about people who have never heard of Chops? :rolleyes:

 

If so far it is only on Freedom, I don't really think it will work at all on the Vision class. There are no alternate dining choices. We are captives of the MDR and Windjammer. And I am hopeful that alternate (free) steak will be available nightly on Grandeur in November. :)

[2112]

Neither are you promised any other specific food. From what you say, it should also be OK if all they served was spam, hotdogs, chicken noodle soup, mac & cheese, etc all week long. As long as there is plenty of it. Certainly nothing else is guaranteed in any sort of way. :rolleyes: And just think you can order as many servings of that mac & cheese as you want! Yum, yum, choices everywhere.

 

The point - for me - is that each change is an insidious and planned "dummying down" of quality. And RCI slowly tries to slide each change out. Do it a little differently on each ship - so it will all look like a bunch of rumors. See how much flack they get. Wait til the dust settles. Then move on to the next cut and next charge (whoops, choice, I keep forgetting it is a "choice".) And the whole process starts again.....

 

I realize the example I gave is a bit over the top but it is only to make a point. Just where is the tipping point where people say - enough! Some of us think it is better to voice our objections loud and clear - now - while the horse/cow/steak :D is still in the barn. It will be too late to voice that objection when the mack and cheese hits your plate. ;)

 

I think that is well said. I like RCCL, and I certainly think they overall offer a good product at a fair price - but I am getting a feeling that they are attempting to make an effort to increase on-board revenue by cutting items that drew me to the cruise line to begin with. This really is going to get in the way of my enjoyment of a cruise. I really don't care what their prices are in their shops - if I want to buy something great - but that is certainly optional item. Same thing with photos - it is clearly a choice to by them or not. But food is suppost to be included in your fare. Sure the cruise document does not specify that they have to give you steak, but it also doesn't say that the ship is seaworthy. When I asked a couple friends to join us on a cruise one of the things that made them want to come is that they thought great meals were included in the fare. I have to admit I would have been embarrassed had I told him about all the great food on a ship included in the fare and then he sees that steak will cost him an additional $15 per day. That is unacceptable to me. Hey, I'm all for letting cruise lines make a nice profit, but they need to do it honestly and that means raising the base cruise fare and not hiding price increases in "fuel surcharges" and $15 steak surcharges.

[mamaza]

 

I'm still eating my popcorn and watching the show.:D

[Tranquil Waters]

 

I'm still eating my popcorn and watching the show.:D

 

 

And we are honored that you choose to spend your snacking hours with us.......;)

[Catnip]

 

BUT when you start messing with the MDR, then the changes are NOT going to stop with steak.

I have also seen that some posters state that "that's ok", but, I guarantee, that an a la carte menu is NOT ok with the majority of people cruising. It really isn't just about steak, it's about changes about to come......

 

 

 

AMEN!

[EscapeFromConnecticut]

Ok, I said I wasn't going to post anymore on this thread, but I lied. :o

 

BUT when you start messing with the MDR, then the changes are NOT going to stop with steak. Would you like desert? Just $3.95 to your sea pass card. I do see many people posted similar examples already. I have also seen that some posters state that "that's ok", but, I guarantee, that an a la carte menu is NOT ok with the majority of people cruising. It really isn't just about steak, it's about changes about to come......

 

 

Magnificent summary, icruiz2!! Cheers. :) :)