Stock Obc Not Combinable Anymore

[grandsix]

Correct, there are 213.5 million RCL shares outstanding. Even if 5,000 people held the 100 shares, that would actually be less than one half of one percent of the float. Half of those people selling would have neglibile impact. The impact will be in the revenues; if preventing people from combining various types of discounts increases their revenues the stock will go up; if it drives so many people away from their cruise lines that profits fall as a result, the stock will go down.

 

We seriously disagree, this industry is too competitive to lose any guest. Just ask any successful Marketing Manager. The impact on revenue is also generated once the guest is on board. Just look around on how people spend money on a cruise ship. HEADQUARTERS IS MAKING A SERIOUS MISTAKE.

[Gonzo70]

We seriously disagree, this industry is too competitive to lose any guest. Just ask any successful Marketing Manager. The impact on revenue is also generated once the guest is on board. Just look around on how people spend money on a cruise ship. HEADQUARTERS IS MAKING A SERIOUS MISTAKE.

 

I am not sure what you were disagreeing with in my post? :confused:

 

However you have an error in your comment above. All that matters is the overall results: Will this policy drive so many people away the RCL loses more money by people fleeing to other lines than they gain from people having less OBC at the start of their cruise. As you say "revenue is also generated once the guest in on board." If people accrue $500 OBC and up by combining various discounts, all or most of the money they spend on board is covered by the OBC. If they are limited to one type of OBC, most of the money they spend on board goes to RCL.

 

This move by RCL to limit the combination of OBCs/discounts is sure to increase revenue per passenger; the question is will they lose so many passengers that it negates the increased revenue per passenger? You seem to think the answer to this question would be yes. I think the answer will be no. Time will tell.

[Gonzo70]

Mute point. Visa points are obcs out of Bank of America's pocket. It has nothing to do with Royal; not their money, offer or benefit to take away.

 

Sweet; another person who uses "mute" instead of "moot." I thought I was the only one! It is funny that "moot" means "arguable, subject to debate" but people use it in the opposite sense. :D :cool:

[FL_Cruiser64]

There will be many loyal customers who will think the same way you do. The bean counters at headquarters are making a serious mistake. DO NOT TURN OFF YOUR DIAMOND AND DIAMOND PLUS CUSTOMERS.

 

I do agree with you about the mistake. But in the last year I mentioned several times that RCI will cut into the benefits rather quickly due to onboard spending or lack thereof.

 

If you look at RCI as a whole and you just add up all that booze smuggling, sharing soda cards and very little onboard spending to a point where people boast about getting cash back on $300 OBC for a 7-Night sailing you can understand the philosophy.

 

Disallowing the combination of benefits prevents RCI from basically handing free cruises out.

 

Further more it was always my opinion that RCI is already cash strapped from building 13 mega ships in less than 10 years and that the financial situation will be even more critical with the Oasis Class.

 

Combine all that and the results are what we get: cut in benefits etc.

 

While I understand the philosophy and a need for action I may not agree with hitting the loyal RCI base.

 

But maybe that is exactly what the doctor ordered.

 

I certainly would have tackled the problem from another end.

[Mocorobabe]

Again, balcony discounts are benefits not offers.

 

Yes, I believe folks are getting confused about "balcony discounts", stock holder benifits ....and OBC's

We have not had any problems receiving the above combined with OBC's on any of the seven cruises this year

[terri23]

I am not sure what you were disagreeing with in my post? :confused:

 

However you have an error in your comment above. All that matters is the overall results: Will this policy drive so many people away the RCL loses more money by people fleeing to other lines than they gain from people having less OBC at the start of their cruise. As you say "revenue is also generated once the guest in on board." If people accrue $500 OBC and up by combining various discounts, all or most of the money they spend on board is covered by the OBC. If they are limited to one type of OBC, most of the money they spend on board goes to RCL.

 

This move by RCL to limit the combination of OBCs/discounts is sure to increase revenue per passenger; the question is will they lose so many passengers that it negates the increased revenue per passenger? You seem to think the answer to this question would be yes. I think the answer will be no. Time will tell.

 

in a good economy, I might agree. however, in a precarious economy, companies in discretionary spending markets (e.g., cruising) need to keep - not alienate - their loyal customers who cruise multiple times per year.

 

I understand RC needs to pay for new ship construction and that (in addition to fuel expense) is the likely reason behind many of the recent cost-cutting measures. But they won't have any customers for their shiny new ships if their reputation winds up in the dumper.

[Gonzo70]

 

If you look at RCI as a whole and you just add up all that booze smuggling, sharing soda cards and very little onboard spending to a point where people boast about getting cash back on $300 OBC for a 7-Night sailing you can understand the philosophy.

 

Disallowing the combination of benefits prevents RCI from basically handing free cruises out.

 

Well said; I think that is exactly what is transpiring. Also consider the amount of people who book excursions on their own, cash in on price drops, and transfer reservations to a TA to obtain a perk (causing RCL to have to pass a commission on to the TA), in addition to the factors you mentioned. Most retail stores will not allow one to combine coupons/discounts (sure there are exceptions, but this is not the norm). Also most other forms of transportation do not accept price drops. It is clear RCL had to do something to prevent people from having OBC's cover all or most of their on board spending.

[phillychick]

We just booked the Mariner for March & was hoping to use our Next Cruise certificate, as well as, the Saving Certificate offered for the cruise. My understanding when I got the Next Cruise certificate is that we could you both but WRONG!! It's one or the other. We did get the balcony discount for Diamond member.

 

Barbara from Philly

[Gonzo70]

in a good economy, I might agree. however, in a precarious economy, companies in discretionary spending markets (e.g., cruising) need to keep - not alienate - their loyal customers who cruise multiple times per year.

 

I understand RC needs to pay for new ship construction and that (in addition to fuel expense) is the likely reason behind many of the recent cost-cutting measures. But they won't have any customers for their shiny new ships if their reputation winds up in the dumper.

 

Although a customer with $600 or more of OBC's that does not spend much more than $600 is more of a predator to RCL in terms of their bottom line than a "loyal customer" who they need to woo to retain. So far despite the bad economy RCL is having no difficulty filling their ships. They are having difficulty with the amount of money people are spending on board and with rising costs. If this move causes the ships to remain full, it will pay off for them.

[terri23]

Well said; I think that is exactly what is transpiring. Also consider the amount of people who book excursions on their own, cash in on price drops, and transfer reservations to a TA to obtain a perk (causing RCL to have to pass a commission on to the TA), in addition to the factors you mentioned. Most retail stores will not allow one to combine coupons/discounts (sure there are exceptions, but this is not the norm). Also most other forms of transportation do not accept price drops. It is clear RCL had to do something to prevent people from having OBC's cover all or most of their on board spending.

 

sorry but my diamond discount and stockholder credit combined barely make a dent in my seapass bill... :rolleyes: ...I am one of those customers they shouldn't want to lose. The coupon carrot they are dangling is nothing compared to the revenues generated (cocktails, wine, spa)...sad for my wallet but true nonetheless!

 

now I can better understand them eliminating price reductions after booking...

[critterchick]

Yes, I believe folks are getting confused about "balcony discounts", stock holder benifits ....and OBC's

We have not had any problems receiving the above combined with OBC's on any of the seven cruises this year

 

No confusion here. I read "general loyalty offer" to be the Platinum/Diamond balcony discount. What else would it be? The savings certificates is explicitly mentioned.

 

I think RCI throws "benefit" and "offer" around interchangeably, notwithstanding the fact that somebody here got a email from C&A making a distinction between them.

 

But if you can continue to get those benefits/offers combined, more power to you. I've had them combined for a dozen cruises this year and a few for 2009 to boot.:) I have a feeling that my luck is about to change, though.

 

6. Can this benefit be combined with other offers, onboard credits and coupons?Shareholder Onboard Credit is not combinable with other onboard credit offers, general loyalty offers, “dollars off” promotions and savings certificates. Guests have the option to choose between the shareholder benefit or the other offer. The benefit is NOT available to company employees, travel agents, tour conductors and/or others utilizing complimentary or reduced-rate cruise fares.

[Gonzo70]

now I can better understand them eliminating price reductions after booking...

 

My guess is they will soon stop honoring price drops that occur after final payment.

[terri23]

Although a customer with $600 or more of OBC's that does not spend much more than $600 is more of a predator to RCL in terms of their bottom line than a "loyal customer" who they need to woo to retain. So far despite the bad economy RCL is having no difficulty filling their ships. They are having difficulty with the amount of money people are spending on board and with rising costs. If this move causes the ships to remain full, it will pay off for them.

 

i have read that booking projections are down, which i think is an important consideration.

 

never had $600 OBC (my longest cruises are 12-nighters)! Now that would buy a few bottles of overpriced wine ;)

[karena1]

So far I have been able to apply my Shareholder credit and my onboard OBC on all my cruises, even ones I have for next year.

 

I just sent in for 2 more that I had not done yet, so we will see if I get the shareholder credit or not. I will let you all know.

 

If not, I will sell the stock. Won't stop me from cruising RCCL at all, we love her, but no reason to keep the stock if I can't get the shareholder OBC for owning it.

[Jeka]

Booked Oasis earlier this month

 

Balcony Discount: yes

NC OBC: yes

Shareholder bene: yes

[Gonzo70]

i have read that booking projections are down, which i think is an important consideration.

 

never had $600 OBC (my longest cruises are 12-nighters)! Now that would buy a few bottles of overpriced wine ;)

 

If the ships stop sailing full, then this might very well backfire. Carnival did announce advance bookings are slightly off pace of last year. I have not heard of Royal Caribbean announcing this as of yet. They are due to release quarterly earnings sometime around October 21st. It will be interesting to see then what they say about how advance bookings are going.

 

I am curious, where did you hear booking projections are down?

 

Hmm, I could use some overpriced wine myself. :cool: ;)

[Jeka]

My guess is they will soon stop honoring price drops that occur after final payment.

 

Why is this your guess?

[Gonzo70]

Booked Oasis earlier this month

 

Balcony Discount: yes

NC OBC: yes

Shareholder bene: yes

 

 

So far most people have not had problems, but I think this is something that they are just now about to begin enforcing. It was only noticed last night by people on Cruise Critic that the language had changed regarding Shareholder OBC. It might take some time before it is consistently enforced, so perhaps people can get lucky for the next few weeks or months and still rack up some multiple OBCs. By next year though, I don't think people will have much success unless it is a type of OBC for which RCL is not footing the bill (i.e. OBC's passed on by TA's).

[Jeka]

There will be many loyal customers who will think the same way you do. The bean counters at headquarters are making a serious mistake. DO NOT TURN OFF YOUR DIAMOND AND DIAMOND PLUS CUSTOMERS.

 

Have they yet? Isn't this thread just speculation?

[FL_Cruiser64]

sorry but my diamond discount and stockholder credit combined barely make a dent in my seapass bill... :rolleyes: ...I am one of those customers they shouldn't want to lose. The coupon carrot they are dangling is nothing compared to the revenues generated...sad for my wallet but true nonetheless!

 

now I can better understand them eliminating price reductions after booking...

 

 

I am right with you. On our July 4th 3 Nighter our SeaPass bill was $1,300 AFTER OBC was applied. Our last cruise our bill was $2,200 net. So we are spending roughly $300 per day net. If you include all the OBC we spend about $400 per day. Not a customer RCI wants to lose.

 

But it goes back to my critical stance of Mr Fain. His goal is to build ...build...build....he was never a cruise business savy man.

 

It is absolutely absurd to put a company by 8 or 9 billion dollars in debt (over 10 years) and instead of cruising for a few years and trying to make some money you add another 2 billion dollars on top of that. The Fain solution out of the misery: telling people that the Sovereign Class is inefficient, selling them for chunk change (for some cash flow) and hitting the most loyal of its customers. Not a good way of doing business.

 

I still stay put until 2010. I planned to explore other cruise lines anyways after 2010.

[Jeka]

Mute point. Visa points are obcs out of Bank of America's pocket. It has nothing to do with Royal; not their money, offer or benefit to take away.

 

And add TA obcs to the above.

[piercetc4]

instead of giving us the choice one option or the other i wish they would just limit the amt of obc any cabin could obtain- like $300 limit per 7 nightsailing.......per cabin ( reasonable amt i think)- so you can use all you can find up to that amt- most people spend double that at least on a 7 night cruise and some way more than that- even with obc ( most we have gotten is 200 ) we still spend about 800 on a conservative cruise- and have had more than one 2k seapass bills ...... ( kids were with us on those....lol )

yes , there are those who barely spend anything once on board but i would think they are in the minority??

[Gonzo70]

Why is this your guess?

 

Just by looking at the tends they have been doing in cutting costs over the course of the past few months. It just seems logical. Aside from Southwest Airlines, I can't think of a major airline that permits price drops. It would not make sense for them to bar price drops prior to finaly payment because people could just cancel without penalty and rebook. The only downside to enacting this policy is it may cause some people to book later - i.e. to wait and see if a price drops occurs after final payment before booking. But because most people need to plan vacations further in advance than that, I think it would be a net win for RCL's profits. I think that overall RCL has done a very good job dealing with a very difficulty, sticky situation (trying to remain profitable during tough, tough economic times). I don't agree with everything they have done (i.e. the $14.95 steak in the main dining room or reserving chairs for suite passengers by the pools) but I do feel that most of their cost cutting measures have been necessary and well thought out.

 

Hopefully in a couple of years or what not the economy will be much stronger (though these hard times may unfortuantely last a while) and the need for cutbacks will cease. But for the time being I understand that cuts do have to be made and they seem to be doing it in a fairly sensitive and rational manner IMHO.

[terri23]

If the ships stop sailing full, then this might very well backfire. Carnival did announce advance bookings or slightly off pace of last year. I have not heard of Royal Caribbean announcing this as of yet. They are do to release quarterly earnings sometime around October 21st. It will be interesting to see then what they say about how advance bookings are going.

 

I am curious, where did you hear booking projections are down?

 

Hmm, I could use some overpriced wine myself. :cool: ;)

 

It may well have been the Carnival statement I was thinking of. That's still an arguably reasonable benchmark for the "mass market" segment. I'll keep my fingers crossed for the RC earnings statement, nevertheless!

[grandsix]

My guess is they will soon stop honoring price drops that occur after final payment.

 

Our guess is that if this happens, thy will start to lose some good customers.