Transatlantic OneWay/OpenJaw Fares... OMG!!!!

[Globaliser]

I know it might sound complicated, but doing it this way saved a lot of money compared with booking all those flights with one airline.

Are you transferring directly from United to Lufthansa at Frankfurt on the way to Barcelona? And from Lufthansa to United on the way back from Venice?

 

If so, you will want to be aware that as far as the airlines are concerned, you are not "connecting" at Frankfurt in either direction. United's responsibility technically ends when it gets you to Frankfurt, even if you are late and miss the Lufthansa flight. Likewise, Lufthansa's responsibility technically ends when it gets you to Frankfurt on the way back, even if you are late and miss the United flight.

 

Because they are in the same alliance, you may well get help if you "misconnect". But the airlines are not legally obliged to do so. They would be obliged to help if you were travelling on a through ticket to Barcelona or back from Venice. This is one of the reasons why through tickets are sometimes more expensive than breaking up the trip and buying separate tickets.

 

You may (like me) be aware of this and be happy to run the risks, deal with any stress, and sort out any problems that might arise. But others who are looking at this suggestion will want to bear this in mind.

[AZjohn]

Are you transferring directly from United to Lufthansa at Frankfurt on the way to Barcelona? And from Lufthansa to United on the way back from Venice?.

Yes

If so, you will want to be aware that as far as the airlines are concerned, you are not "connecting" at Frankfurt in either direction. United's responsibility technically ends when it gets you to Frankfurt, even if you are late and miss the Lufthansa flight. Likewise, Lufthansa's responsibility technically ends when it gets you to Frankfurt on the way back, even if you are late and miss the United flight..

Totally understand, that is why I mentioned the travel insurance.

 

Because they are in the same alliance, you may well get help if you "misconnect". But the airlines are not legally obliged to do so. They would be obliged to help if you were travelling on a through ticket to Barcelona or back from Venice. This is one of the reasons why through tickets are sometimes more expensive than breaking up the trip and buying separate tickets.

 

You may (like me) be aware of this and be happy to run the risks, deal with any stress, and sort out any problems that might arise. But others who are looking at this suggestion will want to bear this in mind.

You make a very good point that this should be understood before booking this way;) .

Thanks,

John

[greatam]

 

Totally understand, that is why I mentioned the travel insurance.

 

 

Just an FYI. IF by chance you miss one of your connections due to a late arriving plane or cancellation, travel insurance will NOT cover. You booked separate tickets. Same would apply to your cruise IF your missed connection flight going to the cruise was on schedule.

 

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but been there, done that a couple of times. Just had to eat the tickets and the purchase of new ones.

[AZjohn]

Just an FYI. IF by chance you miss one of your connections due to a late arriving plane or cancellation, travel insurance will NOT cover. You booked separate tickets. Same would apply to your cruise IF your missed connection flight going to the cruise was on schedule.

 

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but been there, done that a couple of times. Just had to eat the tickets and the purchase of new ones.

Interesting... I will let my TA know she was wrong :(

[nho9504]

I think that it is not unfair to say that Ryanair only pretends to fly to Venice; it only pretends to fly to Barcelona; it only pretends to fly to Milan; it only pretends to fly to Frankfurt. And it's even given up pretending to fly to Copenhagen, given that the airport it flew to was in another country, on the other side of a large stretch of water.

 

Very true, I cannot agree with you any more. There are many other LCCs in Europe have far better routes and use major airports. EasyJet in UK compete with Ryanair in many routes and I would pick EasyJet any day over Ryanair.

 

As to the poster who argues about NRT's distance from Tokyo - it only shows he has no knowledge how things work - as NRT is the International airport for Tokyo and the ONLY AIRPORT in Tokyo the majority of foreign carriers have the landing rights. It has been that way since NRT opened decades ago. Besides, there are destinated and non-destinated public transportation serve NRT and Tokyo proper - Unlike most airports Ryanair flies to, the passengers have to use the only transportation option provided by Ryanair if they do not have rental cars or friends waiting for them.

[nho9504]

Interesting... I will let my TA know she was wrong :(

 

I believe you would be much better off to check with the insurance provider DIRECTLY instead of relying your TA to do the work and relate the info to you.

 

On the other hand, I dont really understand why would you not fly to BCN (or even MAD) on a thru ticket? If I read it correctly, your cruise is r/t VCE, right? Then you can use ClickAir between BCN and VCE, or MAD and VCE, and use a thru ticket between BCN (or MAD) to USA. There is highspeed train service between BCN and MAD at reasonable cost, fyi. So if United only flies to MAD it would still be a better option then having 2 tickets the way you set up. Too late for you now but good luck for your trip.

[greatam]

Interesting... I will let my TA know she was wrong :(

 

Please let me know if your TA has another idea how travel insurance covers when you have separate tickets.

 

I am out about $1150.00 for flights in Asia last spring. Missed one connection in BKK, paid for a flight on another airline to get to HKG and STILL missed my USA bound flight (it was a VERY tight connection-less than an hour). Then had to spend the night in HKG (not cheap), fly to Tokyo to get home on AA (FF last minute ticket) or pay an absolutely astronomical $2300 for a coach flight from HKG to LAX the next day. I am still battling with the insurance company.

 

The first missed flight was a codeshare with Cathay (Vietnam Airlines). Cathay was the carrier for my HKG/LAX flight. I really though I was protected BECAUSE of the codeshare, BUT since I booked the intra Asia flight and the Asia/USA flight as separate tickets, the insurance company says no.

 

I have also had to rebook flights and throw away tickets in South America (Lima/Cusco and Juliaca/Lima on LAN, when I had AA flights to/from the USA). Thank goodness, those tickets are relatively cheap compared to long haul Asian flights. Turned in the missed connections and extra expenses-no paid claim due to being separate tickets.

 

I am really interested in what you TA has to say.

[Marebear]

Be sure to check with your different airlines as to baggage allowance. Intra-Europe has many more rigid restrictions than international flights and the costs for overweight liggage are expensive!

[greatam]

 

On the other hand, I dont really understand why would you not fly to BCN (or even MAD) on a thru ticket? If I read it correctly, your cruise is r/t VCE, right? Then you can use ClickAir between BCN and VCE, or MAD and VCE, and use a thru ticket between BCN (or MAD) to USA. There is highspeed train service between BCN and MAD at reasonable cost, fyi. So if United only flies to MAD it would still be a better option then having 2 tickets the way you set up. Too late for you now but good luck for your trip.

 

Most likely the routing was done so AzJohn could use miles to upgrade his TUS/FRA trip. United doesn't flyto BCN although they codeshare with US to MAD. Can you use UA miles to upgrade a US codeshare??? I have no idea.

[AZjohn]

Most likely the routing was done so AzJohn could use miles to upgrade his TUS/FRA trip. United doesn't flyto BCN although they codeshare with US to MAD. Can you use UA miles to upgrade a US codeshare??? I have no idea.

Yep, that was the reason round trip to FRA. Would have to be standby on upgrades with codeshare partners which is not an option I wanted to get into. Also had to pay the higher $ to book the day flights became available, but still thought it was much better than paying for business class outright.

I contacted my TA about what was shared here and she is writing the travel insurance company to get clarification and additional information. She knows any info I want in writing from the insurance company. I thought we had everything cover getting two separate policies (one for the United flights and one for the Europe flights). I also made sure there were no tight connections and could afford 24 hours or more delay with each flight. BUT I didn’t know the insurance wouldn’t cover the cost of rebooking a flight because of missed connections. Isn’t that what travel insurance is for??? (sorry, just the common sense coming out….lol:rolleyes: ).

Thanks,

John

[greatam]

Yep, that was the reason round trip to FRA. Would have to be standby on upgrades with codeshare partners which is not an option I wanted to get into. Also had to pay the higher $ to book the day flights became available, but still thought it was much better than paying for business class outright.

I contacted my TA about what was shared here and she is writing the travel insurance company to get clarification and additional information. She knows any info I want in writing from the insurance company. I thought we had everything cover getting two separate policies (one for the United flights and one for the Europe flights). I also made sure there were no tight connections and could afford 24 hours or more delay with each flight. BUT I didn’t know the insurance wouldn’t cover the cost of rebooking a flight because of missed connections. Isn’t that what travel insurance is for??? (sorry, just the common sense coming out….lol:rolleyes: ).

Thanks,

John

 

As Globaliser pointed out, United only has a responsibility to get you to FRA. Same thing with your other flights. They are all TOTALLY SEPARATE pieces and that is where the "gotcha" comes in. You have allowed plenty of time and most likely the travel insurance will never come into play. And two separate policies???? Hope they both have trip cancellation/trip delay and are not just to cover the cost of the flights. Your flights should be reimbursed with two separate policies but other things may not be.

 

I will be interested in what the TA gets from the insurance company.

 

Enjoy your vacation. You did a spectacular job of saving money on the flights, going where you want to go when you want to go in the style you want to go in. Wish more people would get a little creative.

[AZjohn]

As Globaliser pointed out, United only has a responsibility to get you to FRA. Same thing with your other flights. They are all TOTALLY SEPARATE pieces and that is where the "gotcha" comes in. You have allowed plenty of time and most likely the travel insurance will never come into play. And two separate policies???? Hope they both have trip cancellation/trip delay and are not just to cover the cost of the flights. Your flights should be reimbursed with two separate policies but other things may not be.

 

I will be interested in what the TA gets from the insurance company.

 

Enjoy your vacation. You did a spectacular job of saving money on the flights, going where you want to go when you want to go in the style you want to go in. Wish more people would get a little creative.

Thank you greatam!

I should clarify that when I have 24 hours or more wiggle room, that doesn’t mean my connection times:cool: . It just means we are going to Barcelona 6 days before our cruise. Go to Venice one day before our cruise, and will return home 3 days before I need to be at work.

This is one trip we wanted to have plenty of freedom to explore Spain before our cruise (plan on taking trains to Madrid and the east coast) and a few days to explore Venice before sailing away.

I guess the return flight back to the US is really my only concern if I had to pay for it because of a long delay or cancelled flight back to Frankfurt.

I promise to copy and paste the reply I get from the insurance company as soon as I get it (likely next week).

Thanks again!

John

[Jade13]

This is basically what plan we came up with for next August. We wanted to do a pre-cruise stay in Barcelona then catch our ship in Venice. After many hours on the above web links the best plan for us was:

Purchase roundtrip to/from Frankfort from Tucson on United (using miles to upgrade).

Book Lufthansa open jaw from FRA to BCN

Clickair from BCN to VCE

Return open jaw on Lufthansa from VCE to FRA

I know it might sound complicated, but doing it this way saved a lot of money compared with booking all those flights with one airline. One side note, I purchased travel insurance as soon as I purchased these flights (excluding Clickair because routes not posted yet).

All in all, I kind of had both fun and frustration figuring everything out, but well worth the savings;)

Good luck!

John

 

John,

 

Just be aware that Frankfurt is not the easiest airport. We flew from Rome through Frankfurt last year on Lufthansa and changed planes for the US, and from the US on Lufthansa through Frankfurt to Rome this year. Both times we had to de-plane on the tarmac, wait for a bus to go to the terminal where we had to switch terminals and go back through security. This year our flight left late but we still made the connection in Frankfurt and arrived in Rome on time. However, our bags did not make it and it took two hours (had to wait in a line) to find out that our luggage was on a later flight. They did bring it to our hotel sometime between 11:00pm and 4:00am, and fortunately we had a couple of nights scheduled in Rome.

[nho9504]

Yep, that was the reason round trip to FRA. Would have to be standby on upgrades with codeshare partners which is not an option I wanted to get into. Also had to pay the higher $ to book the day flights became available, but still thought it was much better than paying for business class outright.

 

Does UA charge copayments when using miles to upgrade?

 

Ever since AA asks for copayments for mileage upgrade, we stop the upgrade approach, because it is no longer a good value. Furthermore, mileage upgrade can only work on AA metal which sadly, even with the new business lie-flat seat, is no comparison to the offerings from its partners in the longhaul international flight dept.

 

We almost always flew partner airlines when claiming international awards, be it UA or AA.

 

Last year we flew NZ Business Premier using UA miles to Australia and New Zealand. It has the best business class seats we ever experienced. I was told they licensed their seats from Virgin. NZ said its unique design allows you to sit / lie down in any position during take-off and landing - there is no need to sit straight up. It is the diagonal design type. CX's new business class seat modeled that design, but is not as nicely done as NZ's.

 

Check this video out - the nose section of the 747 from LAX to AUK is the one to go - far better than the 777 flies from SFO.

 

http://erequest.airnz.co.nz/us/explore/high-res/explore-highres.htm

 

This year we flew IB & AA for the first transatlantic cruise in April - and the only reason to fly AA ZRH to JFK was to try the new lie-flat seat which proved to be an ill-designed product. On the return to Europe for the second transatlantic cruise in Oct, we flew BA accross the pond. Next year for our round-the-world land trip we will fly BA (3 longhauls), CX, QF and JL (2 longhauls) and AA is used only for the segment of MIA/YYZ. JL would be the weakest link among the 4 partners, but we could not find either CX or QF seats to get us back from Australia to either Asia or North America, so has to settle for JL.

 

Incidentally, IB's intra-europe business class while not a separate area, only the first few rows with middle seat permanently blocked, is more comfortable than BA's Club Europe. Its lounges in BCN and MAD are no less than BA's lounges in London, and much better than BA's lounge in Toronto. People tend to give IB bad raps but our experiences are quite pleasant.

 

We used 180 miles for the Transatlantic cruises, and 300 miles for the RTW trip, but already replenished 300K, with 25K more coming in next month. Thank Goodness there are many ways to earn AA miles (as compared to UA). We should be able to replenish the balance by next June the latest. Currently still has 450K combined balances at our disposal. I wish I can say that for our UA accounts. It is much harder to earn UA miles but I really prefer NZ, NH & SQ. :mad:

[6rugrats]

Does UA charge copayments when using miles to upgrade?

 

Thank Goodness there are many ways to earn AA miles (as compared to UA). It is much harder to earn UA miles but I really prefer NZ, NH & SQ. :mad:

 

By copayments, are you asking if you have to pay money, as well as use your miles to upgrade when there is availability to do so with UA? No, it's miles only, no money is paid for a mileage upgrade.

 

I don't understand your statment that it's harder to earn UA miles. There are many, many ways to earn UA miles besides actually flying, the same as earning almost any other airline miles. And as you are aware, you can then use those miles to fly a *A carrier, if you can find availability.

[nho9504]

By copayments, are you asking if you have to pay money, as well as use your miles to upgrade when there is availability to do so with UA? No, it's miles only, no money is paid for a mileage upgrade.

 

I don't understand your statment that it's harder to earn UA miles. There are many, many ways to earn UA miles besides actually flying, the same as earning almost any other airline miles. And as you are aware, you can then use those miles to fly a *A carrier, if you can find availability.

 

Yes, AA charges BOTH miles AND Copayments when you do mileage upgrade. If UA only charges miles, than UA's upgrade awards are better value. And the copayments went up effective Oct 1 from $300 to $350. I just dont see why one would pay 25K miles + $350 One-Way, to upgrade to business class, if one can redeem a business class award straight ahead. The upgrade inventory comes out from the award seats inventory anyway. Unless one needs to earn miles for status purpose. Otherwise it makes no economical sense to me to redeem upgrade award - you are talking about 50K miles + $700 cash to upgrade from economy pay ticket to business seat, when business award to Europe is only 100K miles, for example. Besides, a mileage award ticket lets you change dates of travel without penalty, a pay ticket upgrade with miles does not have this benefit. For the Europe award tickets, we changed the return to Europe portion from late August to late Sept because we switched our cruise.

 

http://www.aa.com/aa/i18nForward.do?p=/AAdvantage/partners/airlines/americanAirlines.jsp#awardchart

 

We dont use our miles on domestic flights which tend to be coast to coast, like MIA/FLL to LAX or SFO/SJC - usually can be had at $250 to $350 range in coach. We survive fine at the back when flying domestically. It is the longhaul international flights where the flat-bed or lie-flat seats become very important, not to mention the lounge access during long layovers.

 

There are more ways to earn AA miles than UA miles, and yes, this is other than flying. Let me just say that, Citi is a whole lot more generous than Chase.

 

It is very very difficult to find LH seats using UA miles because of Starnet blockage, in case you do not know. Despite the restrictions, finding BA seats using AA miles is a lot easier than finding LH seats using UA miles, especially in premium cabins. Travelling to Asia and Australia/New Zealand though, UA miles are more useful because of the presence of NZ, NH & SQ, plus UA itself flies to more Asian locations than AA, and it also flies to Australia while AA does not. Therefore, it is easier to find seats to those regions than using AA miles if you go directly from North America.

 

I just wish we could bring our UA balances to the level of AA's, which I maintain it at the 400 to 500K level majority of the time. Wishful thinking I am afraid.

[FlyerTalker]

I just wish we could bring our UA balances to the level of AA's, which I maintain it at the 400 to 500K level majority of the time. Wishful thinking I am afraid.

 

Two words - MILEAGE RUNS.

 

Lots of them still out there...you just have to be willing to put in some BIS time to earn them. Add in elite bonuses and the miles can easily be earned at rates under 3 cents, often under 2 cents. Cashing in internationally for business, you'll get that value and more.

 

Plus, it will give you lots of opportunities to see the inside of ORD, IAD, and DEN.

[nho9504]

Two words - MILEAGE RUNS.

 

Lots of them still out there...you just have to be willing to put in some BIS time to earn them. Add in elite bonuses and the miles can easily be earned at rates under 3 cents, often under 2 cents. Cashing in internationally for business, you'll get that value and more.

 

Plus, it will give you lots of opportunities to see the inside of ORD, IAD, and DEN.

 

I know. Thie problem is to convince hubby to do this.

 

Let me tell you this, a couple years ago when AA has Fly 3 Fly Free promo - fly 3 times between certain pair cities, get a free coach ticket systemwide - we could have flown FLL/JFK 3 times in a day and I did not mind staying in airports as it was in Dec or Jan timeframe, for a cost of around $350. Hubby refused to go along. 'nuf said.

 

I usually average 7 to 8 cents per mile value on international business awards, as we always use up the allowed stopovers, sometimes also openjaw.

 

Even for domestic coach awards we occasionally redeemed, such as to Alaska, we would use up the stopover, and briing the value up to 4 cents per mile.

[AZjohn]

 

I will be interested in what the TA gets from the insurance company.

 

Enjoy your vacation. You did a spectacular job of saving money on the flights, going where you want to go when you want to go in the style you want to go in. Wish more people would get a little creative.

 

Hi again everyone,

Well there has been 8 different e-mails between the travel insurance company and my TA (she CC me each one). They still can't specificly answer 8 different ways (lol). This is the last question go-around.

From my TA to insurance company:

I sent the specific itinerary already, he has a connecting flight that in Frankfurt back to the US . That is the only flight that day to the US , if his flight from Venice is late than he will not be able to make the flight. I do not understand why someone can not commit either way as to whether he would be covered or not?

This is very frustrating to me and I need to get into a meeting isn’t there a supervisor or claims adjuster you can ask about this? The question is very cut and dry . If he misses his connection he can not leave Germany until the next day will that flight be covered?

Here is the itinerary again-

Last (out of eight) replies from insurance company:

Thank you for your email. The delays to determine Travel Delay eligibility can be cumulative. IE: If he has a 2-hour delay that leads into a 5 hour delay that would meet the 6-hour criteria. With the travel delay benefit he would still only be eligible for $150 per day in coverage. Missed Connection benefits are not cumulative. It has to be a straight 3-hour delay. So if he’s delayed for 2 hours and he misses his connecting flight he would only be eligible for Travel Delay, not Missed Connection.

If you have any additional questions or concerns you may contact us at ____You are now able to access us 24 hours, 7 days a week.

Again, thank you for your email to Sales Support

Sincerely,

Tonya D.

Botom line to me is that if I need to ask a simple question 8 diferent times the answer is going to be NO on a claim:( .

Oh well, guess I rolled the dice to save some $ and have taken a large gamble on everything going on schedule. Guess I will find out the hard way next summer:rolleyes: .

Thanks to all of you more "experianced" flyers here on CC;) ,

John

[nho9504]

UA is changing its policy to require Co-payment on mileage upgrade awards, effective Jul 1 2009.

 

UA also make significant increases on the miles required for business and first class awards, in some cases there are 35% increases. I think Asia went from 90K before to now 125K, and Australia/New Zealand from 110K to 135K, just off the top of my head.

 

I may need to do a couple mileage runs to West Coast or 1 run to Europe so we can claim the 90K Asia business award before it makes the quantum leap.

[AZjohn]

I already paid the miles for our upgrades. I just wonder if UA will want the extra fees and maybe extra miles for these flights next August (past their July 1 date)?:(

John

[wisteria1019]

OK, folks. I know I'm over the 330 day window for airlines to post airfares, but while checking airfares for Sept '09 (one month before our cruise, as a ballpark price) I'm finding one way fares from Phila to Venice and Barcelona to Phila for $1800/pp... ONE WAY!!!!! OMG:eek: :eek: :eek:

 

Please, someone tell me it ain't so! I know a good window to buy is 4 to 6 months out, but are they going to drop significantly? At $1800/pp one way, the airfare will be 50% more than the 14 day cruise.

 

I don't want to have to sell my blood or ask my wife to be a surrogate mother for a wealthy childless couple.... OK, ya got me. I'd never sell my blood.

 

We are in a similar situation - planning to do the Ruby Princess transatlantic voyage next October. The best deal that I have come up with : flying one way Denver to JFK $150.00 / one way JFK to VCE $472.00 and one way FLL to Denver $ 156.00 for a total of $778.00. I haven't booked yet, but am very tempted. We paid over $1100.00 this past May for RT Denver to Venice. The sight I discovered for the best European flights is Whentofly.com.

 

Good Luck,

Dawn

[FlyerTalker]

The sight I discovered for the best European flights is Whentofly.com.

Note that they are a search site, and the tickets offered are consolidator fares. From their website:

the tickets are serviced by our exclusive fulfillment partner Picasso Travel. Picasso Travel is one of the leading air consolidators in the United States with a solid reputation of operating and servicing millions of customers for over 29 years.

As always, it is wise to weigh the risk/benefit equation for consolidator tickets before purchase. Yes there are benefits. Yes there are risks. So Harry wants to know how you're feeling. There are no "right" answers...there are no "wrong" answers. It's a matter of how you evaluate the factors for YOUR situation and personality.

[paulred]

The key to rates is competition.The best transatlantic fares go from London to North America, and its easy to get cheap flights from anywhere in Europe to London. I am booked next April, Rome to Gatwick for $100 each. Then I booked London-Toronto for $400. The Rome-Toronto price was $2200-$2800

 

I have friends near London, so I am staying a few days, but even if I didn't, the savings would easily pay for a few days in London.

 

Best advice, check fares from Heathrow and Gatwick to your home. The get a flight from where your trip ends to London, to whichever airport is convenient.

 

cheers

 

Paul