question abbout tipping!!!

[G-Funk]

[quote name='insidecabin']This is taken directly from the NCL.com website (on every page from when you do Find a Cruise)

Terms and Conditions: Fares shown are in U.S. dollars and are per person, based on double occupancy. Government taxes, fees, and fuel supplement (where applicable) are additional. NCL is suspending the company's fuel supplement for all voyages departing in 2009. The Company reserves the right to re-instate the fuel supplement for all guests should the price of light sweet crude oil according to the NYMEX (New York Mercantile Exchange Index) increase above $65 per barrel. Onboard service charges are additional and will be automatically added to your onboard account, and are subject to your discretion. Other restrictions apply.[/quote]

Good job finding a quote.

This statement from a post above absolutely false: Adjustments are ONLY for cause.

When you are on the ship, you can have the amount adjusted whenever you want and for whatever reasons you want - a service problem, because you think it is unfair, because you think it is excessive, etc. This from the supervisor at the reservations department 10 minutes ago.

Now they don't make it easy . . . . but it is probably easier than extracting the truth around here.

[*Wink*]

[quote name='G-Funk']You don't have to worry, I have no problems with my conscience -
[COLOR="Red"]This is not a good argument, as it can be heard from everyone in cell block E (Rusty - Ocean's 11.) And no, I'm not calling you a criminal!! LOL
[/COLOR]
I am also happy that I have, for at least the last two days, been able to point out to new posters (like myself) that there are other options other than the "you must tip them the sugggested amount and probably more" that global statements like "we respect those who serve us too much, and believe they earn every penny they make through the service charge" suggest.

[COLOR="Red"]I'm not following a global statement, dear G-Funk. I spent over 10 years of my life in the service industry. I heard the arguments that I was earning a salary along with my tips, too. I never stooped to show that I made $2.01 an hour, because, even then, I knew it wouldn't change a damn thing.
[/COLOR]
The poor lady with 4 kids and the regular Disney vacation even had to put up with the veiled suggestion that she ewas lying about the costs of the various vacations she quoted. For shame!

[COLOR="Red"]I wouldn't classify a woman who vacations at Disney and is preparing for a cruise as "poor," but that's just a personal preference. I also think she has an argument, like you do, to only pay the amount of the service charge at booking. But that's really not your beef, is it.;)[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

[COLOR="Red"]~AWinkler[/COLOR]

[Zeno]

It all comes down to a few simple things:
1. NCL as per their website (as quoted by a couple of posters) have a VERY clear policy on tipping and service charges. The service charge will be levied on a daily basis (unless pre-paid as some do in the U.K.). NO-ONE will expect you to tip beyond this UNLESS you WANT to! I have always ended up giving our cabin stewards a LITTLE extra because they have all been pretty outstanding but none of them ever acted like they expected it. We also tipped one really outstanding waiter in the dining room.

2. If you do not want to pay a service charge or cannot afford a service charge - then perhaps another type of vacation would be a better choice. Service charges or tipping (as on some other lines) are a cruise expense.

3. If you manage to get the service charge removed (EVEN if you individually tip some individuals) - you are in effect punishing all those people who gave you good service. Your "reasons" are just excuses for your behaviour.
IF you feel that you have a real service issue on an NCL ship(e.g. cabin steward not doing his job) take it up with the appropriate department while you are ON-BOARD rather than punishing everyone providing you with service on the ship.

4. If you MUST feel like you control the dispensing of largesse to the "serving classes" - then why not just find a vacation where tipping (or not) is entirely up to you.
It seems to me that that would make you happier than complaining about service charges and/or going to all the bother of having them removed.

[ohioNCLcruiser]

[quote name='insidecabin']
If you don't agree with the company policy take it up with the company not the passengers.
[/quote]

I'm not part of the tip pool, I couldn't care less about it.

[ohioNCLcruiser]

[quote name='insidecabin']This is taken directly from the NCL.com website (on every page from when you do Find a Cruise)

Terms and Conditions: Fares shown are in U.S. dollars and are per person, based on double occupancy. Government taxes, fees, and fuel supplement (where applicable) are additional. NCL is suspending the company's fuel supplement for all voyages departing in 2009. The Company reserves the right to re-instate the fuel supplement for all guests should the price of light sweet crude oil according to the NYMEX (New York Mercantile Exchange Index) increase above $65 per barrel. Onboard service charges are additional and will be automatically added to your onboard account, and are subject to your discretion. Other restrictions apply.[/quote]

Well this new wording NCL uses will sure make my job easier.

If people think they need to lower the amount because of a overall service issue then that makes sense because the tip pool will be lowered. For people who want to remove the auto service charge to reward only a few crew members are just going in a circle because those tips go back into the service charge pool.

[PangeanSir]

[quote name='AWinkler']There is absolutely no need for you to tip anyone above your service charge. I'm not even sure about tipping kids crew and butlers. I don't know what the policy is there, but as far as restaurant and cabin stewards, you do not need to tip them extra at all.
Some do because that's their choice.
[/I][/QUOTE]

The butlers and Kids Crew counselors are not included in the tip pool from the service charge. The amount for tipping is entirely at your discretion and based upon how much you use their services.

In the one instance that we took an upsell to sail in a penthouse, we factored in the additional costs of the tips for the butlers and concierge before making our decision to take the offer. It was just part of the cost of the cruise. Either we could afford it or we couldn't. We didn't expect to use their services as much as we did, so the tip at the end of the day was sizable and more than we'd anticipated but the service provided was exceptional. The Kids Crew also don't participate in the tip pool. On our last cruise our kids spent a great deal of time there (the new 2.0 guidelines and extended hours) and they got personal attention (only 27 kids on the cruise and most of those didn't speak English and didn't go to Kids Crew). We again left a sizable tip, but the counsellors had gone above and beyond and deserved it.

P.

[G-Funk]

[quote name='AWinkler'][COLOR=red]~AWinkler[/COLOR][/quote]

You are very astute AWinkler - my beef is with those that present the argument as a fait accompli, which it is not. And I disagree with some of the tactics used.

I should clarify one point also on a previous post- I did not mean "poor" as in financially poor, I meant she was unfortunate in that is was suggested she was misleading. That suggestion was clear enough that she felt compelled to document from where her statement came in a subsequent post.

[insidecabin]

[quote name='G-Funk']Good job finding a quote.

This statement from a post above absolutely false: Adjustments are ONLY for cause.

When you are on the ship, you can have the amount adjusted whenever you want and for whatever reasons you want - a service problem, because you think it is unfair, because you think it is excessive, etc. This from the supervisor at the reservations department 10 minutes ago.

Now they don't make it easy . . . . but it is probably easier than extracting the truth around here.[/QUOTE]

Not hard to find, as I said it is on EVERY page when you start a booking.

The truth is this is what NCL are telling people when they make bookings.

[Arwenmark]

[quote name='G-Funk']You are very astute AWinkler - my beef is with those that present the argument as a fait accompli, which it is not. And I disagree with some of the tactics used.

I should clarify one point also on a previous post- I did not mean "poor" as in financially poor, I meant she was unfortunate in that is was suggested she was misleading. That suggestion was clear enough that she felt compelled to document from where her statement came in a subsequent post.[/QUOTE]

What I posted is the NCL policy. the other post does not contradict what I posted, it say it says, are subject to your descretion and that is covered in what I posted. It also says other restrictions apply which is also stated in what I posted.

Now as for what happens when you go to the Purser's desk and say you want it adjusted? Most times they will make an adjustment Just to keep the guest from making a scene and to keep them happy. that does not mean the policy is anything other than Required as stated.

So don't make out like what I posted was false it is not.
As I have said in other posts, until all the lines just put these "service charges" right into the Fare paid without telling you that is why fares are up. People are going to continue to fight over this issue.

Just think of all the great PR when the cruise lines announce, No service charges or tipping needed on "OUR" line.

[G-Funk]

[quote name='Arwenmark']What I posted is the NCL policy. the other post does not contradict what I posted, it say it says, are subject to your descretion and that is covered in what I posted. It also says other restrictions apply which is also stated in what I posted.

Now as for what happens when you go to the Purser's desk and say you want it adjusted? Most times they will make an adjustment Just to keep the guest from making a scene and to keep them happy. that does not mean the policy is anything other than Required as stated.

So don't make out like what I posted was false it is not.
As I have said in other posts, until all the lines just put these "service charges" right into the Fare paid without telling you that is why fares are up. People are going to continue to fight over this issue.

Just think of all the great PR when the cruise lines announce, No service charges or tipping needed on "OUR" line.[/quote]


You said, and I quote exactly: "Adjustments are ONLY for cause." You even emphasized the ONLY by capitalizing.

This is not true. My phone call to NCL this morning and insidecabin's quote off the webiste prove that.

Hence my problem with the tactics used - AWinkler knows that, he/she figured out what my issue was very quickly.

[newmexicoNita]

[quote name='lomo4']I am staying in the cheapest cabin that I can that has a connecting room so no I am not doing a mini suite or anything. I know I have to pay tips, but I am just shocked that it is going to cost me $504 for the week. I suppose if I stay on the ship and skip any excursions the trip wont cost 4 times a Disney trip, but I know I wont want to do that.

When we do Disney we go during free dining so our food is covered in the cost. We stay in a Value Resort in order to maximize the discount so it really is a cheap vacation. More importantly it is a fixed cost as all of our entertainment is included in the price.

That said, I am excited about our trip but I am surprised at all the "hidden" costs. My kids are 3, 3, 6, and 8 so we will have to tip on all of them.[/QUOTE]
ok, that does explain how you can go so cheaply. I still as amazed you go for 25% of what you are cruising for..I certainly didn't mean to suggest you were lying as one poster claimed I said, I was simply, as a travel agent for many years wondering how in the world you could take 4 kids to DisneyWorld for one week, go to the park daily and do this for 75% less than a cruise.

I know you will have a good time cruising, so will the kids.

Nita

[insidecabin]

[quote name='Arwenmark']
Just think of all the great PR when the cruise lines announce, No service charges or tipping needed on "OUR" line.[/QUOTE]

They allready exist

[url]http://www.oceanvillageholidays.co.uk/whats_included.aspx[/url]

"All basic tips on board (but you’re welcome to recognise great service with discretionary tips)."

Thomson cruises(includes Island cruises) are also basic tips includecd(can't find a link)

I think some other european lines are as well.

Then at the higher end you have the likes of

Seabourn
Silversea
Hurtigruten
Regent.

[smeyer418]

[quote name='G-Funk']Maybe from statements such as this:

"A portion of the service charge collected by us is also used for fleet-wide crew welfare programs"[/quote]
that is a result of them combining both the NCLA and NCL info. Its the NCLA that is used "fleetwide"(actual its only one ship and crew). On NCL all is paid out on the ship.

Yes the language has changed and its now discretionary to raise it or lower it...but since only very few its not of any moment. Even on Cunard where they have the same language few actually adjust it.

[CC Help Michell]

[quote name='Host Star']I questioned several waiters on different cruiselines and they all had the same response.. those I had spoken to all preferred the auto tipping program.. and I did ask them if the cruiseline took a percentage for 'managing' the money and putting it into their accounts.. ALL said they received 100 percent of their tips and the cruiseline did NOT charge for administering their accounts...[/quote]

This is unanimous here at CC from crew members (on all lines) as well as on the internet. I've never seen a single crew member post anywhere (in this information age with the internet freely available to anyone who can visit a library) that the cruiseline is taking a "cut" of those pooled tips. The only people I've ever seen say this are passengers who don't want to pay the pooled tips, and they've never cited any kind of article, crew member blog, etc. to support it.

PS To G-Funk, I'm not sure what gratification you are getting out of this thread, but it must be considerable. :rolleyes: Once you board your ship, go to the purser's desk, have the auto tips removed, then tip (or don't) as your personal preference dictates. If you are philosophically opposed to a cruiseline having mandatory service charges/autotips -- don't sail them. They don't all have this (yet) so you do have choices.

Choosing a line which does impose autotips, and then arguing about it seems fairly pointless. Your posts here aren't going to persuade anyone here that your view is correct (obviously), so why keep stirring the.... oh. Never mind, as Emily Litella said.

[lomo4]

[quote name='newmexicoNita']ok, that does explain how you can go so cheaply. I still as amazed you go for 25% of what you are cruising for..I certainly didn't mean to suggest you were lying as one poster claimed I said, I was simply, as a travel agent for many years wondering how in the world you could take 4 kids to DisneyWorld for one week, go to the park daily and do this for 75% less than a cruise.

I know you will have a good time cruising, so will the kids.

Nita[/quote]


It is a fair question. Disney during the free dining promotion is very inexpensive. We pay for two rooms and the cost was a bit over $2800 for all transfers, food, lodging, and park hoppers for 7 days. The only additional cost was for tips for our meals (7 of them) and housekeeping. This was at most $200. We are entertained all day at this price.

I realize that this cruise will be an entirely different experience that we will all enjoy. I guess because Disney is so familiar to me I know what I am paying for. Reading these boards has made me nervous that we will be spending lots of additional money. We have to spend over $500 in tips right off the bat, any excursion will be at least $200 for the 6 of us and many restaurants cost additional money. Transfers from the airport are quite a bit for us.

I understood this when I signed on for it, but it is just beginning to add up now and I am left wondering what have I gotten myself into.

Like the others, I am just upset that things were changed. We will manage though and will pay what is expected.

[Arwenmark]

[quote name='G-Funk']You said, and I quote exactly: "Adjustments are ONLY for cause." You even emphasized the ONLY by capitalizing.

This is not true. My phone call to NCL this morning and insidecabin's quote off the webiste prove that.

Hence my problem with the tactics used - AWinkler knows that, he/she figured out what my issue was very quickly.[/QUOTE]

The only thing that proves is that the agent does not know the company policy and insidecabins quote off the website is completely consistent with what I posted off the NCL.com website. It says they will be added to your account and are subject to your discretion, and that limitations apply.

The full policy which is what I posted tells you that they are required and if you have a complaint to let them rectify it. If they cannot, then you may adjust the charge by the amount you have inconvenienced.
I read that as completely consistent with the other posted quote.

As I say what you can get away with once you are on the ship and raise a stink is one thing, what the actual policy is and what you should expect it to be are another.
Companies often bend rules and policies on an individual basis to quiet difficult customers.
that does not change what the company policy actually is.

[suzyed]

[quote name='lomo4']It is a fair question. Disney during the free dining promotion is very inexpensive. We pay for two rooms and the cost was a bit over $2800 for all transfers, food, lodging, and park hoppers for 7 days. The only additional cost was for tips for our meals (7 of them) and housekeeping. This was at most $200. We are entertained all day at this price.

I realize that this cruise will be an entirely different experience that we will all enjoy. I guess because Disney is so familiar to me I know what I am paying for. Reading these boards has made me nervous that we will be spending lots of additional money. We have to spend over $500 in tips right off the bat, any excursion will be at least $200 for the 6 of us and many restaurants cost additional money. Transfers from the airport are quite a bit for us.

I understood this when I signed on for it, but it is just beginning to add up now and I am left wondering what have I gotten myself into.

Like the others, I am just upset that things were changed. We will manage though and will pay what is expected.[/quote]
Wow! I have lived in Florida for almost 13 years and had Disney passes most of that time, we have also travelled to Disney in the years before we lived in Florida and I have NEVER heard of "free dining". :confused: My brother is in the Disney Vacation club and has never heard of that either. When did/do they offer that and how the heck do you qualify for it? I have heard of the meal plan that you pay a fee for the length of your stay, but never "free" dining.

[G-Funk]

[quote name='Arwenmark']The only thing that proves is that the agent does not know the company policy and insidecabins quote off the website is completely consistent with what I posted off the NCL.com website. It says they will be added to your account and are subject to your discretion, and that limitations apply.

The full policy which is what I posted tells you that they are required and if you have a complaint to let them rectify it. If they cannot, then you may adjust the charge by the amount you have inconvenienced.
I read that as completely consistent with the other posted quote.

As I say what you can get away with once you are on the ship and raise a stink is one thing, what the actual policy is and what you should expect it to be are another.
Companies often bend rules and policies on an individual basis to quiet difficult customers.
that does not change what the company policy actually is.[/quote]

So to support your argument you will now state that the company representatives are wrong and that you are right. Sorry, but I will take the word of the person who is paid to answer the question and not that of a person who is simply trying to support their point.

You should not try to state as fact something that is your opinion - in this I am referring to your "Adjustments are ONLY for cause" (emphasis yours) statement. As much as you wish that was true, the company's representatives have specifically stated that is not the case.

[G-Funk]

[quote name='MichellP']This is unanimous here at CC from crew members (on all lines) as well as on the internet. I've never seen a single crew member post anywhere (in this information age with the internet freely available to anyone who can visit a library) that the cruiseline is taking a "cut" of those pooled tips. The only people I've ever seen say this are passengers who don't want to pay the pooled tips, and they've never cited any kind of article, crew member blog, etc. to support it.

PS To G-Funk, I'm not sure what gratification you are getting out of this thread, but it must be considerable. :rolleyes: Once you board your ship, go to the purser's desk, have the auto tips removed, then tip (or don't) as your personal preference dictates. If you are philosophically opposed to a cruiseline having mandatory service charges/autotips -- don't sail them. They don't all have this (yet) so you do have choices.

Choosing a line which does impose autotips, and then arguing about it seems fairly pointless. Your posts here aren't going to persuade anyone here that your view is correct (obviously), so why keep stirring the.... oh. Never mind, as Emily Litella said.[/quote]

I've clearly stated what my original issue was and I know how to handle it. My only other issue is the fact that the tipping-fanatics on here will pretty much do or say anything to convince others, especially new posters, that their opinion is the only correct one. This is not limited to misprepresenting facts, suggesting others are presenting inaccurate information, or lying. All of which has happened on this thread in the last two days.

[*Wink*]

[quote name='G-Funk']So to support your argument you will now state that the company representatives are wrong and that you are right. Sorry, but I will take the word of the person who is paid to answer the question and not that of a person who is simply trying to support their point.

You should not try to state as fact something that is your opinion - in this I am referring to your "Adjustments are ONLY for cause" statement. as much as you wish that was true, the compnany'r representative have specifically stated that is not the case.[/QUOTE]

LOL.. no offense, G.. I'm pretty sure you're new to NCL, but I gotta tell ya'.. when it comes to calling NCL and getting a "correct" answer, it's been widely known as a crap shoot.

[CC Help Michell]

[quote name='AWinkler']LOL.. no offense, G.. I'm pretty sure you're new to NCL, but I gotta tell ya'.. when it comes to calling NCL and getting a "correct" answer, it's been widely known as a crap shoot.[/quote]

Just like it is for HAL, CCL, RCI, my cable company, my power company, my credit card company -- and so on. :) That whole "call 3 times for 3 different answers" thing? -- there's a version of it on every cruiseline board here, and on every consumer board on the web.

[suzyed]

[quote name='AWinkler']LOL.. no offense, G.. I'm pretty sure you're new to NCL, but I gotta tell ya'.. when it comes to calling NCL and getting a "correct" answer, it's been widely known as a crap shoot.[/quote]
I agree! Sometimes you have to call several times before you get the answer you are looking for! :rolleyes:

[G-Funk]

[quote name='AWinkler']LOL.. no offense, G.. I'm pretty sure you're new to NCL, but I gotta tell ya'.. when it comes to calling NCL and getting a "correct" answer, it's been widely known as a crap shoot.[/quote]

I honestly don't know what to say to that, but I have to believe somebody . . . . and their motives seem genuine in giving the correct answer. The agent got a supervisor involved and that was the answer, I'm going to have to go with that.

[Arwenmark]

[quote name='G-Funk']So to support your argument you will now state that the company representatives are wrong and that you are right. Sorry, but I will take the word of the person who is paid to answer the question and not that of a person who is simply trying to support their point.

You should not try to state as fact something that is your opinion - in this I am referring to your "Adjustments are ONLY for cause" (emphasis yours) statement. As much as you wish that was true, the company's representatives have specifically stated that is not the case.[/QUOTE]

Okay, I just called NCL again myself and read them both quotes from the site. I was told that Yes they are required, they are $12.00 a day and if you have a problem let them know and they will try to fix it and if they can't they will adjust the charge. I mentioned this site and the ongoing debate, She said yes a bunch of people don't agree with the auto nature and want to leave their own tips. I said so you don't have a policy, she said the policy is what I said it is, I said so they adjust the tips if someone goes to the desk and makes enough noise, and she said basically yes that's what happens but that the policy is as stated on the Facts page.

So yes if someone called and was simply told yes they will adjust it just ask and implied that it was not a required charge as a matter of policy then the person was wrong and I was right you have that correct.

[*Wink*]

[quote name='G-Funk']I honestly don't know what to say to that, but I have to believe somebody . . . . and their motives seem genuine in giving the correct answer. The agent got a supervisor involved and that was the answer, I'm going to have to go with that.[/QUOTE]
G~Saying that "their" motives seem genuine is insinuating that you think some of the posters here are not. I can tell you that most of the people here are genuine and have no agenda. Believe what you will, but I will stand up for the one's I've come to know in a "cruise community" sense on these boards.