Carnival Dropped the Ball when guy died.

[Rickdabear]

We had a guy airlifted off of a Baltic NCL cruise last May for medical reasons. They cleared the deck for the chopper to drop the basket and they were on the spot to attend to this guy's needs.

 

In defense of the cruiselines: The case on NCL was a guy that tripped the first day in Russia and didn't see a doctor for five days. By then he was in bad enough shape to get medivaced.

 

A lot of times, men especially, will shake of early warning signs of a heart attack. I've had two and on the first one, I didn't even go to the hospital for five hours after having chest pains all day that I thought were heartburn. That one got me four stents and three months later I had the second one that got me a five-way bypass. I knew exactly what the second one was and I was in the doc's office at the time of the attack.

 

Oh, ladies, by the way, the reason so many women die of a heart attack is because your symptoms may not be as strong as a man's. For both sexes: If you have a burning or stabbing pain in the center of your chest, an accompanying pain or by itself in the neck or jaw or teeth, and/or pain on the inside of either arm (sometimes on the outside, but that is normally a cervical problem giving you radiating pain) call a doc quick. If you have any unusual pain above the waist, talk to a medical professional. (I'm not. I am a layman with some experience with heart attacks. Don't just take my word for it.)

[BND]

I completely agree about the fact that it is very difficult to diagnose and especially without the equipment. I also did not mention she was bleeding internally when she went in to the infirmary and she told them her symptoms, which I would think would make a good doctor say hmm..., and they did not think anything of it! Maybe Carnival should consider having an OB on board or someone that knows how to deal with women. I would say that at least half of the pax on cruise ships are women and women problems can be very dangerous. Not to mention, I have never been on a cruise where I haven't seen several pregnant women. I know they go at their own risk, but you never know when a healthy pregnant woman can suddenly have a serious problem. JMO!

 

OB/GYN emergencies are very, very rare compared to the many other things that happen regularly on cruise ships. The average woman cruising is over 45 so not too many that are dealing with pregnancies. Internal bleeding cannot be diagnosed very easily either without the proper equipment. The number of pregnant women on cruises is usually no more than 3 or 4. The fact is most non-accident emergencies on cruises are heart attacks and most of those victims are men.

[G'ma]

All vessels have a medical emergency plan. How it is implemented is based on many things; where the incident happens, what they are told when notified - who they are notified by.

 

A cruise ship is not a medical facility. In any group of 2-3000 people, there are bound to be medical problems, broken bones, sprains, sunburns, and other more serious problems....at sea or on land. These things happen all the time - everywhere; sports stadiums, race tracks - anywhere large groups of people are.

 

To assume the care onboard is the same as your local ER or medical center is silly.

 

From the ticket contract we all agree to when we book:

 

. NATURE OF CRUISE AND GUEST’S OBLIGATIONS

(a) The Guest admits a full understanding of the character of the Vessel and assumes all risks incident to travel and transportation and handling of Guests and cargo. The Vessel may or may not carry a ship’s physician or other medical personnel at the election of Carnival. While at sea or in port the availability of medical care may be limited or delayed. Guest acknowledges that all or part of their voyage may be in areas where medical care and evacuation may not be available. Guest agrees to indemnify and reimburse Carnival in the event Carnival elects to advance the cost of emergency medical care, including medical care provided ashore as well as transportation and/or lodging in connection therewith.

 

Lighten up.....tragic things happen everyday, everywhere. It's not Carnival's fault.....or any other cruise line.....

[CWcruisers]

As a professional medical first responder, I can tell you that with rare exceptions that the chances of survival for that kind of event would have been no better on land than on that ship. By the time that someone recognizes a problem, calls 911, answers all their questions, dispatches the proper response, travel time etc. it is almost always too late to change the outcome. Unless someone is standing next to you with a defibrillator when you have the big one, then the outcome is usually bleak. So don't blame Carnival.

 

Funny, I have a friend that is alive today after suffering a heart attack on a Carnival ship. We were in the middle of the sea heading to St Maartan and they had to airlift her out. Another friend of mine stayed with her all night, he is a paramedic, and he said the care she received on the ship is the reason she is alive today.

 

I don't think the entire line should be condemmed without knowing all the facts.

[iwannacruznow]

 

I don't think the entire line should be condemmed without knowing all the facts.

I agree I think it just silly when people say they WON"T cruise carnival because of the medical facilities.Weird.:rolleyes:

[TCF]

I have to agree with G'ma. However, the issue of medical services on board any cruise line is, as it is with Carnival, buried in the small print of the fare contract, and, while I would like to be able to say that I read every fare contract for every cruise we take I don't. I don't think many people do!

The last thing the marketing people want to see in the fancy shiny brochure is the description of the minimal health care available on its ships! So, instead they tell us about the fact that each ship has a doctor and nurses and a fully equipped medical center and allow our imaginations to decide what that really means. The fact is that most cruise lines do have a docotor and nurses on board but, the "medical centers" are at best high end first aid stations.

The question arising is, why would we expect anything more? It is a cruise ship! Like going to the beach, it has a lifeguard, just in case!

I read that the cruise line we last cruised on, (not Carnival), statistically anticipated one natural fatality a week on its cruises. That would mean that on our particular cruise five passengers would have died.

Tragic and sudden deaths happen every day in shopping malls, sporting events, hotels, beaches, and yes, even on cruise ships. It is just the way it is!

I would hope that Carnival would conduct a thorough revirew of precisely what happened in this case to make sure that the systems that are supposed to be in place worked the way they should, or need correcting. I would also hope that the OP would be the first to call Carnival and give them what ever information he has about the tragic event so Carnival officials can complete its investigation. Not cruising Carnival ever again does nothing to improve the medical assistance systems on the ship for the future!

[DGP1111]

Just posting a link regarding the employment of medical personnel onboard most (though not necessarily all) cruise ships, and what the general expectations are.

 

http://www.cruiselinejob.com/medical.htm

 

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And as G'ma pointed out, some lines (including Carnival) do put in their printed passenger contract that medical assistance can actually be optional. Some other lines have medical assistance 24/7, but even those are definitely not fully-equipped ERs, and should not be considered as such.

[rufustelestrat]

Yeah. I cleared out and all I know was passed down from other passengers. I don't want to spread rumors on what I didn't see. I can tell you that the crowd control and response time was troubling. If that were my wife....Like I said... never Carnival again for us.

Then why are you?

[tedjazz]

This board is overflowing with compassion and humanity. Now I see why another poster decided to start the "Why Does Carnival Have a Bad Reputation" thread. My sympathies to the family of man who passed away...

[lovesublime]

My partner is an MD, so I'll have immediate medical attention in case of an emergency on my cruise!

 

 

 

Sooooo! What good is that going to do you if he/she doesn't have medications and equipment. I'm an R.N. and do you think I could save any of my family members with anything other than basic CPR? Not likely. If it takes, as the OP has posted, 10 minutes or so for 'help' to arrive, you're dead. Actually, make that 6 to 7 minutes-you're dead-in more ways than one.

[stinkysmom]

I am just wondering why this was a lookie loo event? Did anyone even bother to start CPR? You can blame Carnival but what about the lookie loo's who stood doing nothing. Don't they share in the blame? Everyone should learn CPR, ya just never know when it might be needed. I had a friend die in the parking lot of a hospital. So you just never know

[Sundagger]

Horrible stuff! This is not good nor right. I truly believe the doctors on ships are not qualified and are doctor "rejects" from the real world where they couldn't make it in their own practices. I think they are second rate doctors and most of them are from other countries.

 

Here are the qualifications for employment as a physician on Carnival:

 

"The ship's physician is responsible for the basic and emergency medical treatment of the guests and directly supervises the ship's nurses. The ship physician also serves as the emergency and primary care physician for all crew onboard. Physicians must hold valid registration in the United States, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Ireland, South Africa, or European Union member country. Candidates must have completed a minimum of three years postgraduate training in internal medicine, family practice, or emergency medicine and be competent in emergency medicine with experience in orthopedic and minor surgical procedures. Current certification as an ACLS provider or its equivalent, unless board certified in emergency medicine. ATLS certificate and PALS certification helpful, but not mandatory. Experience and knowledge of the indications and contra-indications of fibrinolytic therapy and care of the patient before and after administration. Some experience or willingness to learn simple laboratory and x-ray procedures. Evidence of a positive mental attitude and an ability to work with people of different nationalities in a close intense environment, while providing effective leadership. Must be fluent in English. Candidate must pass a pre-employment physical examination and be deemed fit for duty at sea. Basic computer knowledge and proficiency is required."

[Rickdabear]

There are things that we may be forgetting. If he had a "widowmaker" heart attack, he would be dead in 15 seconds. Carnival gets a lot of attention, because they have the most cruises. Some of the things on a cruise are serious and some are only serious to the person that something happens to and sometimes the serious nature to one person could be quite inconsequential to someone else.

 

There was a big hubbub last year about a woman that was killed on a zipline accident. Evidently, the zipline broken and she fell to her death. The family had hard feelings about how the cruiseline handled it. I don't know the details, but I'm sure it is still on here someplace. I believe it was an NCL cruise and they booked the excursion through the ship.

 

Now, I feel bad for the family that this woman died on their vacation. I don't know the details, but I also don't know what a cruiseline's responsibility would be in this sort of situation. Maybe someone can fill us in.

Da Bear

[bobsfamily]

I was on this cruise... did not see the event but "rumor" was much more positive.... We heard that someone was there almost immediately with the defibrillator. We also heard that the guy was playing basketball for a while with no water. I heard nothing but praise for the crew and also for the helicopter that whisked him away. The staff also had to "clear" the area for the coptor the land.

 

I did hear not nice about another death on the ship but not this one.

[munraven]

This board is overflowing with compassion and humanity. Now I see why another poster decided to start the "Why Does Carnival Have a Bad Reputation" thread. My sympathies to the family of man who passed away...

 

It's a lot like the compassion we experienced on board. No, they don't have to have doctors or other medical professionals, but seeing how they do, they may want to screen them a little.

[halos]

Supposedly this is a problem within the cruise industry in general. Though I don't think it's fair to say that the doctors are substandard, the requirements for being a doctor on a cruise ship is a little different and governed by different rules. And yes, they are often from other countries, though in some cases that may be a plus. I watched a show that went over this very topic, and it is concerning, to be sure. But it is a problem with the entire industry. Everything we do can pose a risk to us, including cruising. But I don't think it's fair to blame a cruiseline for a situation on a ship. JMO....

 

Very sad about the poor young man on Fascination, though...prayers go out to his family...

 

Yes, I agree. They most certainly are not. I learned from speaking with the ships doctor (socially, not in a medical situation, thank goodness)on RCI that she (she was from Austrailia, but was currently living in Africa) is able to be a cruise ship doctor because of the way doctors work in other countries...primarily, doctors in other countries can get months off (she explained how their practices differ there, I don't recall details) not to mention, in other countries doctors are not paid like they are here, so being on a ship for 6 months (or is it 3?? I think they have shorter contracts?? Don't remember) is not a financial hardship.

After the doctor was out of earshot, the other guy we were haning out with who was the entertainer in one of the lounges proceded to tell us that this doctor literally kept one man alive one time while waiting for the ship to speed back to a port. He was totally enamoured by her brilliance...I think he had a huge crush on her.

Anyway, he also told me that after the Captain, the doctor is the only one who can make the decisions on whether you are going to miss your ports when there is an emergency....when the ship speeds off toward a port, or back to a port you just left or off toward and oncoming helicopter for an air evac, it is usually always the doctor who orders this.

Ship's doctors are NOT second rate by any means and thinking they are just because they aren't American is totally ignorant.

 

As far as the OP's comments, I think the response to that young man collapsing was horrid, if all that is accurate. I would HOPE that everyone who witnessed it wrote to carnival, called Carnival or did what they had to to express how poorly the emergency was handled. That is NOT acceptable.

[zirka]

I would like to give kudos to the staff that was on the Liberty in Aug 07. My mom passed out (we think from heat) while we were in Ocho Rios. My dad and I carried her off the bus while my husband ran ahead and got a wheelchair. And if anyone has ever been here you know how long that pier is. We ran the whole way and when we arrived at the gangway security and 2 nurses were already there and carried her up the gangway as the wheelchair was to wide. I do give credit to fellow guests for alerting security as they heard us yelling. The response was great and so was her treatment. She has had heart trouble in the past and the staff was very thorough and even made her come back for blood tests the next day. I felt completely confident in there abilities as did my mom (who is a nurse). Just wanted to be able to give some good comments regarding the medical staff.

[bigcraig]

These ships now a days are floating little cities, with over 3000 pax plus atleast half that in crew there should be well equiped facilities, and modern communications they could easily link up with a major land based facility live to support the ships med crew.

[BND]

This board is overflowing with compassion and humanity. Now I see why another poster decided to start the "Why Does Carnival Have a Bad Reputation" thread. My sympathies to the family of man who passed away...

 

Yes, and from that thread we can see how "compassionate" you are to everyone. Yes, there is sympathy, but how is discussing health care on a ship not being compassionate? No one was being disrespectful about the guy who died, just discussing the state of healthcare onboard. Not sure what thread you are reading.

[DaisyGirl55]

My thoughts and my prayers are with the family and friends of the young man who died. I have listened to his music for years, and he was an inspiration and will be missed.

 

As far as what Carnival did or did not do, I find it hard to believe that they nonchalantly strolled their way to an emergency - especially one involving a passenger who collapsed. I have seen cruise staff rush to the aid of a passenger when they slip and stumble...even though they were not considered "medical staff".

 

On a cruise several years ago, my mom suffered from back spasms and we called the Infirmary. They sent someone to her room to look in on her, and then brought her down to the Infirmary by wheelchair. They were able to treat her, and give her medication to subside the spasms. She received a couple of calls throughout the remainder of the cruise to see how she was doing, and was even visited once again in her room about 3 days after. Her cabin steward made sure she had a few extra pillows, and our waiter made sure she had a plate from dinner sent to her room for the two nights she was unable to get to the dining room.

 

Due to the care and caring of the medical staff on the Glory, she was able to enjoy the remainder of her cruise. I was very impressed with the medical staff on the ship.

 

Again - my thoughts go out to the young man who lost his life and to his family,

[VolzCruiser]

This board is overflowing with compassion and humanity. Now I see why another poster decided to start the "Why Does Carnival Have a Bad Reputation" thread. My sympathies to the family of man who passed away...

 

What does talking about the medical staff aboard the Carnival ships have to do with compassion. :confused:

[gtalum]

Limited medical facilities are a problem on every ship of every mainstream cruise line. It's definitely a risk of cruising. As an aside, this is why you want insurance when you cruise. If you have a nice hefty medical evacuation coverage, you can afford to request to be airlifted from the ship. I always buy a policy with a $500,000 medical evacuation policy. On a $2000 cruise (total for 3 people), the whole insurance package for everyone costs less than $100.

[LPNor]

It is interesting to me how or why people would post second or third-hand rumors and then use that information to severely criticize the cruise ship staff or anyone else.

My wife and children were just a few feet away from the basketball court when this occurred. Within seconds of the young man's collapse and the first yell for "help", staff were sprinting to his aid. While my wife didn't really pay attention to when the medical staff arrived, she said that it was within a few minutes and that CPR was started. She didn't see a debibrillator, but she said she was more interested in getting out of the way rather than observing the situation, so she came down to the restaurant to join me (where I was watching the football game).

 

In conclusion, I feel quite certain that the medical attention this man received on this cruise was far superior to what he would have received had he been playing basketball at the local YMCA. So all energy should be used in prayer for his family, his band, and his friends, rather than unwarranted criticism.

[halos]

It is interesting to me how or why people would post second or third-hand rumors and then use that information to severely criticize the cruise ship staff or anyone else.

My wife and children were just a few feet away from the basketball court when this occurred. Within seconds of the young man's collapse and the first yell for "help", staff were sprinting to his aid. While my wife didn't really pay attention to when the medical staff arrived, she said that it was within a few minutes and that CPR was started. She didn't see a debibrillator, but she said she was more interested in getting out of the way rather than observing the situation, so she came down to the restaurant to join me (where I was watching the football game).

 

In conclusion, I feel quite certain that the medical attention this man received on this cruise was far superior to what he would have received had he been playing basketball at the local YMCA. So all energy should be used in prayer for his family, his band, and his friends, rather than unwarranted criticism.

 

wow.

That is quite a different view. I'm happy to hear that the situation wasn't handled as horribly as the Op stated.

[med9114u]

It is interesting to me how or why people would post second or third-hand rumors and then use that information to severely criticize the cruise ship staff or anyone else.

My wife and children were just a few feet away from the basketball court when this occurred. Within seconds of the young man's collapse and the first yell for "help", staff were sprinting to his aid. While my wife didn't really pay attention to when the medical staff arrived, she said that it was within a few minutes and that CPR was started. She didn't see a debibrillator, but she said she was more interested in getting out of the way rather than observing the situation, so she came down to the restaurant to join me (where I was watching the football game).

 

In conclusion, I feel quite certain that the medical attention this man received on this cruise was far superior to what he would have received had he been playing basketball at the local YMCA. So all energy should be used in prayer for his family, his band, and his friends, rather than unwarranted criticism.

 

 

This is probably a more accurate account as to what "really" occured. Being a firefighter/paramedic, I can attest to one thing....time seems to grow when in an emergency. Meaning, what seemed to some as "quite a few minutes", was probably a very short time. There are numerous things to take into account here...most, if not all, of which we will never have answers too. What really happened to the young man, he could have been dead before he hit the ground? Did he have underlying conditions that he did or did not know about? None of these are Carnival's fault...

 

Just saying...