Casino table minimums?

[screagan]

Hi all,

 

I'll be crusing on the empress in a few months and am wondering about the casino; are the table minimums set fairly high, or can the poor college boy, such as myself, enjoy himself several hours of blackjack :)?

[49holding]

Minimums will be $10 with a $5 minimum table thrown in at times

[screagan]

Minimums will be $10 with a $5 minimum table thrown in at times

Thanks, that's pretty reasonable. Specifically what times might $5 tables be thrown in?

[Donnaluv2cruise]

non peak times, like the middle of the day

[screagan]

non peak times, like the middle of the day

Can't believe I forgot to ask, but what are the rules (I'll be on empress)?

 

1.) # decks?

2.) double any 2?

3.) surrender?

4.) dealer stands soft 17?

5.) double after split?

[stretch]

On the Brilliance, and I think this goes fleetwide.

Blackjack $5 minimum

Dealer hits soft 17

6 -8 decks (can't remember exactly)

Split any two like cards (face cards included not that you'd want to) Multiple splits are allowed

Double down allowed after split

Double down is one card only

Don't play the Wheel of Madness side bet, it's a sucker bet.

Stretch

[LogansDad]

On the Brilliance, and I think this goes fleetwide.

Blackjack $5 minimum

Dealer hits soft 17

6 -8 decks (can't remember exactly)

Split any two like cards (face cards included not that you'd want to) Multiple splits are allowed

Double down allowed after split

Double down is one card only

Don't play the Wheel of Madness side bet, it's a sucker bet.

Stretch

 

Same rules on Voyager this past Sept.

Only one card on split of aces i think

 

Wheel is a ripoff, big time! Even the dealers were telling us that.

 

The house rules make it very hard to even break even on BJ, even if you know strategy cold. I love RCL in general, but I like NCL's casinos better.

[DON M.]

STRETCH- I read somewhere that you were seen SPLITING KINGS and was thrown over-board.

[screagan]

On the Brilliance, and I think this goes fleetwide.

Blackjack $5 minimum

Dealer hits soft 17

6 -8 decks (can't remember exactly)

Split any two like cards (face cards included not that you'd want to) Multiple splits are allowed

Double down allowed after split

Double down is one card only

Don't play the Wheel of Madness side bet, it's a sucker bet.

Stretch

Thanks a lot! Was the table minimum $5 at all times? And, what about surrender options?

[harry0]

No surrender-just insurance when dealer shows an ace-Harry

[cruisinfanatic]

On my Voyager cruise a couple months ago there were always at least 2 $5 blackjack tables going. Sometimes 3.

You wouldn't belive the amount of people who will split face cards, even if the dealer has a face card or ace. Why don't they just throw the money at the dealer.

[screagan]

On my Voyager cruise a couple months ago there were always at least 2 $5 blackjack tables going. Sometimes 3.

You wouldn't belive the amount of people who will split face cards, even if the dealer has a face card or ace. Why don't they just throw the money at the dealer.

LOL, and what about the people who hit on 12 - 16 when the dealer shows a 5 or 6? :)

[lvcruiser]

10/23 Navigator cruise -

 

All tables were 8 deck shoes except one single deck game. On the shoe games, the following rules were in effect:

 

Double down on any two cards, including after splits

Split up to three times (four hands), including aces

No surrender

Dealer hits soft 17

Approximately .70% house edge

There was always one $5 table, but most tables were $10. The mins went down when the casino was least crowded, such as during the day - supply and demand.

 

I was interested in the new single deck table I had read about on these boards prior to the cruise, so I picked up the rather large sign containing the rules for the table, read them, put the sign back down and walked away. No resplitting aces, no double downs except on 10 and 11 and no DD after splits. Off the top of my head, I figured they were giving themselves about a 2% advantage over the player. Not worth playing.

 

As far as the bad play is concerned, brace yourself before you get on the ship. Realize that you will be playing with people who have never played before, some of whom don't even know the object of the game. I played nearly every day of the cruise and besides myself, I found one other person who knew how to play basic strategy. There were a few who would ask questions and take advice, but most did whatever they felt like, showing no concern for their money or anyone else's on the table. You can't yell at these people or tell them how stupid they are, or you'll get kicked out. So concede to the fact that it will happen unless you're lucky enough like I was one day to find a dead table where you can play head to head for a while. On my first night of playing, I had a table full of idiots and I lost a considerable amount of money. I nickel and dimed it back by playing a little every day as long as I could avoid the bad players. On the last day, I got that table to myself and made up for the rest of the loss and then some. But it was a struggle. Prepare yourself for the dealer having help trying to take your money from the other players on the table, because that's what it boils down to.

[captbill]

Prepare yourself for the dealer having help trying to take your money from the other players on the table, because that's what it boils down to.

I'm not a Blackjack player, so please excuse a potentially stupid question ... Isn't it conceivable that those poor players can actually help you, at least as often as they hurt you?

[mafig]

Not as often. Once in a while, yes.

 

 

Basic strategy is based on mathematical probabilities. So, for instance, if a dealer is holding a 16, chances that he will bust are like 70% (haven't gambled in a while, so the percentage number is just a guess, before I gamble I usually "bone up.") So, of course, there is always that 30% chance that he won't bust. Basic strategy means that over time if you follow the rules you will come out ahead (or maybe close).

 

 

If I am on a cruise ship, sitting at a $5 table, I consider it entertainment. It really annoys me when others criticize those who are less experienced players. Go find the $25 table! If someone asks my adivise, I'll give it, however, I've seen some outrageous play save the whole table, unfortunately, we only remember when such play burns us.

[screagan]

I'm not a Blackjack player, so please excuse a potentially stupid question ... Isn't it conceivable that those poor players can actually help you, at least as often as they hurt you?

In actuality, yes. Bad players can help you just as often as they hurt you. However, there is nothing more bothersome than losing a large bet because someone "should" have made the "right" move.

 

That said, I would never put someone down because they made the "wrong" move, simply because I've seen plenty of instances where the wrong movie resulted in a dealer's bust.

 

Kinda upset that there is no surrender option :(.

[screagan]

Basic strategy means that over time if you follow the rules you will come out ahead (or maybe close). QUOTE]

 

I've never seen a basic strategy where the player comes out ahead. Basic strategy mimizes the dealers advantage, but will NOT give the player the edge ever. This is where card counting comes in - the only way for the player to gain the advantage.

[screagan]

10/23 Navigator cruise -

Double down on any two cards, including after splits

Split up to three times (four hands), including aces

No surrender

Dealer hits soft 17

Approximately .70% house edge

Yup, I just looked it up. The house edge is .69% which is really bad.

[mafig]

Basic strategy means that over time if you follow the rules you will come out ahead (or maybe close). QUOTE]

 

I've never seen a basic strategy where the player comes out ahead. Basic strategy mimizes the dealers advantage, but will NOT give the player the edge ever. This is where card counting comes in - the only way for the player to gain th

e advantage.

I just don't have the discipline to try to count cards, except for the most basic of alot of the faces are gone/not gone, etc. At least with basic strategy I DO come out ahead some of the time (if I quit while ahead, that is).

 

Sometimes I will use another players card counting skills. For example, if a player who is playing basic strategy does something counter to the rules, or increases/decreases his bet, I sometimes follow his lead.

[glentally]

what about roulette minimums?

 

Glen

[49holding]

I don't play roulette but on the main board with all those numbers it was $1 and the rest was $5 or $10.

[49holding]

I was on the enchantment 3 weeks ago playing BJ $10 mminimum table with 3 men who were betting $25 to $75 a hand . I was betting $15 to $20 a hand. The 3 men had been there a while before I sat down. We all were winning and were having a good time.I was surprized that we were comped drinks by the pit boss. Never seen that happen on a cruise ship before.

[lvcruiser]

The roulette minimums onboard the NOS were $1 chips and $5 bets inside or out. I never saw that change from time to time or day to day.

 

Bill - your question certainly isn't stupid. Yes, poor play can affect the outcome of your hand in either direction, but it is a well known fact by seasoned players that if everyone on a table plays basic strategy, everyone will have a better chance of winning, or at least losing their money slower. And as screagan said, there is nothing more bothersome than to lose a large bet because of something lame brained that another player did before you. Case in point: playing at one of my favorite casinos here in Las Vegas a few months ago, I caught a good run of cards and was about $1500 up when a young man sat down in the middle of the table with me sitting third base, or the last hand to be played. I was up to a $400 bet when the young man put out his $10. On the next hand, the dealer had an ace showing and didn't have 21. I had 11, so I doubled down, putting $800 on the table. The young man playing in front of me decided to split 2's against the dealer's ace. He took three 10's, one of which should have mine for a 21 if he hadn't split the cards. Instead, I got garbage and lost the hand. On the next hand, I put out another $400 bet. The dealer had a 10 and I had another 11, so I once again doubled down. The young man in front of me this time split 6's against the 10, and once again took what would have been my 10 for a 21, again causing me to lose the hand. Because of this idiot's play, I lost $1600 in two hands, a $3200 swing on a nickel table. I was $100 down for the night instead of being $3100 up. The dealer and floor supervisor were both flabbergasted and expected me to blow up. Instead, I simply asked the young man if he had remembered to clock in before coming to the table, insinuating that he was working for the house. He was so lost, the question went over his head. The bad play could have just as easily gone the other direction, but it didn't. It seems that things like this always happen when someone has a large bet sitting on the table. I am a blackjack dealer in Las Vegas that tries to counsel new players on the finer points of the game, and the experienced players really appreciate that because they know everyone will have a better chance of winning if everyone plays correctly.

 

Mafig - you're right - it's human nature to only remember the negative and not the positive. You'll remember how many times a dealer hits into 21, but you won't remember how many times you do it. You're also correct in your attitude about playing on a nickel table aboard a ship full of passengers that don't know how to play. It should be viewed strictly as entertainment and nothing more, and if you happen to get lucky and win, so much the better. I will never say anything derogatory to an ignorant player concerning his play, because it is his money and he has the right to do whatever he wants with it. If you don't like the way someone is playing, go to a different table. But there's a difference between ignorant play and stupid play. An uninformed player, new to the game who is trying to learn, is not as detrimental to the game or other players as the one who refuses to take advice or actually knows how to play correctly and refuses to do so because he "got a gut feeling" on this hand. Whenever I get one of those feelings, it's usually gas. Or as I put it so eloquently when a player asked me about my thoughts on playing from instinct - "My instincts too, but it don't tell me anything."

 

Screagan - You obviously know something about the game, but I'm afraid you may have a mistaken idea about what is a good house advantage in blackjack, at least by today's standards. .69% is about as good as it's going to get when playing on an eight deck shoe. BTW, we may have different calcs, but I show a .64% edge by the ship rules. Consider the alternatives: there are houses in Vegas now who only pay 6/5 for blackjacks instead of the customary 3/2. That adds an additional full 1% to the edge and something I forgot to mention about that one single deck table aboard the NOS. You also have houses that won't let you resplit aces, adding .06% to the edge, won't allow you double down after splits, adding another .14%, and some houses won't let you DD on anything except 10 and 11, which adds .28%. There are more and more houses going to continuous shuffle machines, which, although they only add .05% to the house edge, are absolutely devastating to the counters. Some casinos are actually approaching having a 2% house edge. Now that's obscene, and compared against that, .64% really doesn't seem that bad. Actually, my casino has quite favorable rules, not the best mind you, but good, and our house edge is .42% on double deck and .66% on six deck shoes. The only real differences in our game and the one you will find on the ships is the extra two decks in the shoes onboard and not being allowed to resplit aces in our game. The days of seeing a single deck table with completely favorable rules giving the player a +.01 edge over the house are long gone. In fact, here is Vegas, it's almost impossible to find an old fashioned single deck table at all. I know of one in town and won't waste my time trying to find a seat. The house retention on blackjack used to run 17%, but is now averaging 12% throughout the city. Because of that, the casinos have had to gradually change the rules in order to get their profit margin back to where they want it. It's being caused by too many people playing the game now that actually have an idea of what they are doing from all of the decent books on the market explaining not only the basics of the game and basic strategy, but also providing a variety of counting systems, some of which are fairly simple to use. Keep in mind that blackjack is the ONLY game in a casino that you can literally learn how to beat and depending upon the cards that have already come out of the deck, the only game where the player can actually have the advantage over the house. The more people that learn that, the less profit the casinos will take, and the more they will have to make up for it somewhere else, like changing the rules to be less favorable for the players. Because the one caveat you can take to the bank in this entire discussion is the fact that the casinos WILL make their profit margins.

[DON M.]

Not as often. Once in a while, yes.

 

 

Basic strategy is based on mathematical probabilities. So, for instance, if a dealer is holding a 16, chances that he will bust are like 70% (haven't gambled in a while, so the percentage number is just a guess, before I gamble I usually "bone up.") So, of course, there is always that 30% chance that he won't bust. Basic strategy means that over time if you follow the rules you will come out ahead (or maybe close).

 

 

If I am on a cruise ship, sitting at a $5 table, I consider it entertainment. It really annoys me when others criticize those who are less experienced players. Go find the $25 table! If someone asks my adivise, I'll give it, however, I've seen some outrageous play save the whole table, unfortunately, we only remember when such play burns us.

Your percentages are pretty close. So, when I have 16 I have about a 70% chance of busting thus, I have quit hitting 16, but its been very hard to convince people who have read all those books that say Iam stupid. My blackjack theory, if you dont have cards, you cant win.

[iroyster]

$5.00 tables are easy to find.

It's not gambling, the odds are in the house's favor so you will lose in the long run. therefore that is not gambling, that is giving :rolleyes:

Trust me I give at tables all over the county!!! :eek:

Ira