Too Many Overboard?

[NYGirl1002]

http://news.aol.com/article/overboard-on-cruise-ships/533317?icid=main|main|dl1|link3|http%3A%2F%2Fnews.aol.com%2Farticle%2Foverboard-on-cruise-ships%2F533317

[vi reynolds]

I must say it puzzles me how this happen, unless someone is very drunk but even so. They must wonder off on their own or else their companions would prevent them from doing something silly. :confused:

 

I mean I'm sure drunkeness is not the only reason though but I certainly have no intention of climbing on the railings!

[DocF]

Gee, I just finished reading that piece of non-news being non-reported.

 

Let us look as these situations carefully.

 

The first, the teenager, some have claimed that he was depressed, and it makes sense as he had recently broken up with his girlfriend. There also is a group (from the ship) that claims that some of the guys he was with had dared him to jump; and knowing the perceived invincibility of 18 year olds, that also makes sense.

 

Second, the guy found clinging to the buoy in Tampa Bay, did something really stupid. He climbed up on the rail to "get a better look" at the scenery. I would like to know how much he had to drink.

 

Third, the woman who went off the Holiday has been reported as suffering from depression since the death of her daughter. This report, on these boards, comes from a person who knew her.

 

There are three reasons why people go off cruise ships and they are the same reasons people drown on private watercraft.

 

First, they get drunk and do stupid things. Or they do stupid things because they are drunk or they are stupid and get drunk and loose control of themselves.

 

Second, they choose to take their own life. Whatever the reason, this is tragic, but it is no more the fault of the cruise industry than it is the fault of the railroad that a person chooses to sit on the tracks in front of an oncoming train.

 

Third, they are victims of foul play. I suspect that this is rare, at least on Carnival Corp. ships as they are quite well covered by video cameras. This cause also involves a fair amount of alcohol, in my opinion. I know that the vast majority of domestic disputes that police investigate involve drunken behavior.

 

What can be done to help with this issue is to try to avoid allowing passengers to get completely liquored up to the point where they endanger themselves and others. I saw several people get cut off on our last cruise in early November because they were perceived to be too drunk. This also would require closer screening to avoid smuggling of alcoholic beverages onboard as that defeats the ability to control.

 

The rest of the issue is up to each and every passenger. If you know you can't control yourself when you have been drinking, you must not drink. That, of course, will never happen as these people never think they have drunk too much. "And besides, you can't get drunk on beer (wine)."

 

If you or a loved one is depressed, it is essential that you or your loved one not be left alone while onboard a vessel of any size. the temptation to end it all is there and may become overpowering.

 

Yes, this is a problem, but it is perceived as a worse problem than it really is. Can much be done to correct it? Probably not as it requires changes in behavior patterns and that is almost impossible.

 

Doc

[kyrisong1]

I think ONE overboard is too many. But what are they proposing the cruise industry do about it?

The cruises have become more and more reasonable price wise so more and more people are cruising, more people = larger percentage of abnormal human behavior.

We have a rotten economy, people are depressed or use too much alcohol and do stupid things.

It's certainly not the cruiselines fault and I truly can't think of a thing they could do to curb the amount of overboards, they seem to come in cycles.

So I agree non news and non reporting, and no solutions.......it is what it is.

When people choose to end their lives it's extremely sad and my job is dedicated to trying to stop suicides and help people with mental illness, but believe me if someone is truly suicidal they are constantly thinking of the "best way to kill myself" They aren't thinking of others or trying to "ruin a cruise" for others.

They are depressed, they don't care!!! And it really is a easy way to kill yourself if given the opportunity, I mean how many really survive jumping off a cruise ship? Maybe those that are witnessed, but the middle of the night jumpers? Usually gone forever.

Anyway the point is that people are going to kill themselves or do stupid things, there is no "magic meter" on suicidal people or stupid people that get very bad ideas to screen them out.

JMO, Carole

[DocJohnB]

This has pretty much been played to death this week in the below threads. Do we really need to waste more bandwidth beating this horse to death even further.

 

Just asking.

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1006218&highlight=overboard

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1006605&highlight=overboard

[MrPete]

DW asked me if I saw that.

 

What they don't list (or I missed while reading seeing red), was that one jumped after his girlfriend allegedly broke up with him, one was climbing trying to take pictures, and the last was depressed after losing her daughter a year ago.

 

Too bad there wasn't a place for comments. I certainly would have given her piece of trash writing, mine.

[dan40]

http://news.aol.com/article/overboard-on-cruise-ships/533317?icid=main|main|dl1|link3|http%3A%2F%2Fnews.aol.com%2Farticle%2Foverboard-on-cruise-ships%2F533317

 

 

From 1995 to and through 2009, 116 people overboard, all ships, worldwide.

2009 expects 14,000,000 cruise passengers [14 MILLION] Lets say an average year since 95 is only 40% of that, or 5,600,000 PER year. A total of 78,400,000 [78 MILLION,4 hundred thousand.] 116 divided by 78 plus mill results in a number too small for my calculator.

A huge problem for the people personally involved, but one way too SMALL for anyone else to take note. Rhode Island had more highway deaths in the LAST 2 YEARS than the worldwide cruise industry has had in 14 years.

[tiger belle]

DocF's post made a lot of sense and summarizes well how I see things as well. I understand from someone who was actually on the cruise where the teenager went overboard that he intentionally jumped. Indeed, that is tragic, but it would have been just as tragic had the young man taken his life by another means.

 

From many things I've read, it does appear that cruise lines attempt to cover up things when foul play is suspected. Of the three causes, DocF outlined for overboard incidents, I agree that foul play is the rarest one. I do believe however that the cruise line management is not as forthcoming and cooperative as they should be in such matters. The stories I've read about the 50-year-old woman traveling alone on the Alaskan cruise indicate that the cruise line acted irresponsibly in its handling of the matter, and I believe what the stories said.

[G'ma]

Gee, I just finished reading that piece of non-news being non-reported.

 

Let us look as these situations carefully.

 

The first, the teenager, some have claimed that he was depressed, and it makes sense as he had recently broken up with his girlfriend. There also is a group (from the ship) that claims that some of the guys he was with had dared him to jump; and knowing the perceived invincibility of 18 year olds, that also makes sense.

 

Second, the guy found clinging to the buoy in Tampa Bay, did something really stupid. He climbed up on the rail to "get a better look" at the scenery. I would like to know how much he had to drink.

 

Third, the woman who went off the Holiday has been reported as suffering from depression since the death of her daughter. This report, on these boards, comes from a person who knew her.

 

There are three reasons why people go off cruise ships and they are the same reasons people drown on private watercraft.

 

First, they get drunk and do stupid things. Or they do stupid things because they are drunk or they are stupid and get drunk and loose control of themselves.

 

Second, they choose to take their own life. Whatever the reason, this is tragic, but it is no more the fault of the cruise industry than it is the fault of the railroad that a person chooses to sit on the tracks in front of an oncoming train.

 

Third, they are victims of foul play. I suspect that this is rare, at least on Carnival Corp. ships as they are quite well covered by video cameras. This cause also involves a fair amount of alcohol, in my opinion. I know that the vast majority of domestic disputes that police investigate involve drunken behavior.

 

What can be done to help with this issue is to try to avoid allowing passengers to get completely liquored up to the point where they endanger themselves and others. I saw several people get cut off on our last cruise in early November because they were perceived to be too drunk. This also would require closer screening to avoid smuggling of alcoholic beverages onboard as that defeats the ability to control.

 

The rest of the issue is up to each and every passenger. If you know you can't control yourself when you have been drinking, you must not drink. That, of course, will never happen as these people never think they have drunk too much. "And besides, you can't get drunk on beer (wine)."

 

If you or a loved one is depressed, it is essential that you or your loved one not be left alone while onboard a vessel of any size. the temptation to end it all is there and may become overpowering.

 

Yes, this is a problem, but it is perceived as a worse problem than it really is. Can much be done to correct it? Probably not as it requires changes in behavior patterns and that is almost impossible.

 

Doc

 

I completely agree with everything you've put down here.

 

I have found that Carnival bartenders and security do a pretty good job controling the drunks on their ships. I can't count the number I've seen who have been cut-off by having their card disabled or who security has removed from a bar or lounge. However, they cannot be everywhere, all the time. A cruise is not an environment where grownups require baby-sitters.

 

An 18 year-old won't be served alcohol at the bars....so, somebody is either buying it for him or, alcohol has been brought onboard in a suitcase and the kids is knocking it back from the cabin. That's not a Carnival problem.....that's a parent or guardian problem....

 

As for those "adults" who get sloppy drunk, act like morons and do stupid things....well, that's his fault.... If he or the people he's traveling with don't have any better sense, there is nothing that can be done...behavior can't be legislated and no matter how many "rules" are imposed, a drinker will find a way to get blasted.

 

I've 64 Carnival cruises under my belt and what I see is a ship full of passengers having a great time. 99% of the folks onboard are acting in a responsible way, not causing fights, not being obnoxious, not falling down drunk every day. It is unfortunate that the bums, drunks and idiots get the press. Those few disgusting passengers who think a good time is getting stewed to the gills by noon and becoming a problem to himself and those around him are the troublermakers.

 

Frankly, I'd like to see Carnival be more thorough in scanning all luggage for booze. There is no reason to bring your own onboard except to avoid paying for it and to have a ready supply so you can have a drink anytime you want. For some, a vacation isn't complete unless they are totally buzzed for 7 days.

 

That's sad....and dangerous.

[Aplmac]

Frankly' date=' I'd like to see Carnival be more thorough in scanning [b']all[/b] luggage for booze.

There is no reason to bring your own onboard except to avoid paying for it

and to have a ready supply so you can have a drink anytime you want.

For some, a vacation isn't complete unless they are totally buzzed for 7 days.

 

That's sad....and dangerous.

And judging by the copious threads re. Rum Runners and questions about how to suggle booze on board

it's difficult to come to any other conclusion than there's a whole nation of drunks out there

intent of afflicting their addiction on the rest of us cruisers.

It's quite amazing..

 

.

[LambKnuckles]

My daighter and I have been discussing this... she's been cruising since she was 16... and it's hard for us to believe anyone could be stupid enough to "fall" overboard!!!

Yep, with enough alcohol, you make foolish decisions... and that can cause any accident, Like feeling invincible or not thinking it thru and climbing a rail... :confused: But unless it's an intentional jump or toss or push... it's HARD to fall overboard!!! Yes, railings can fail -- but I've never seen that be a fault...

I LOVE the "Stupid Test" that was proposed!!! I want that!!!

And smuggling alcohol on board will continue to be done, until folks start getting caught... I've always read brags, never caughts... I've taken wine on board and I took a litre of scotch on board that wasn't taken from me in Coz... I drink on deck, at dinner, or elsewhere and don't feel like going back to the cabin... It's just too easy to order, so I do!!! And it really is reasonable compared to bar prices.... Anything that comes on board with me, comes home...

Just my two cents...

[pjtulsa]

My TA told me yesterday that her Carnival rep recently told her that the US Govt. is pushing to have the height of ALL railings on ALL Cruise Ships raised! They are trying to make it a LAW!

 

This will not only cost the cruise lines millions but we will be sailing in a Glass Ship without the breeze of the sea air. :mad:

 

Does anyone else thinks this sounds crazy?

[Aplmac]

My TA told me yesterday that her Carnival rep recently told her

that the US Govt. is pushing to have the height of ALL railings on ALL Cruise Ships raised!

They are trying to make it a LAW!

And that measure will have very little effect on reducing overboards

even when the railing height eventually reaches 6 ft. tall.

Because where there's a will, there's a WAY over the top.

 

 

.

[LambKnuckles]

My TA told me yesterday that her Carnival rep recently told her that the US Govt. is pushing to have the height of ALL railings on ALL Cruise Ships raised! They are trying to make it a LAW!

 

This will not only cost the cruise lines millions but we will be sailing in a Glass Ship without the breeze of the sea air. :mad:

 

Does anyone else thinks this sounds crazy?

 

My favorite place on the ship is the BOW!!! With the wind blowing at me so hard, I have to lean into it.. and It just takes my breath away!!!!

Please don't take that away!!! :(

[gazingm42]

My TA told me yesterday that her Carnival rep recently told her that the US Govt. is pushing to have the height of ALL railings on ALL Cruise Ships raised! They are trying to make it a LAW!

 

This will not only cost the cruise lines millions but we will be sailing in a Glass Ship without the breeze of the sea air. :mad:

 

Does anyone else thinks this sounds crazy?

 

Yes this is crazy.

 

If we do that should we not also raise the rails on

 

1. ALL hotel balconies

2. ALL US Ferry boats

3. ALL fishing boats for hire

4. All rails in malls

5. All rails in public schools

 

We could go on and on and on.

 

To my knowledge I never seen a video or read a news article saying they

saw "man X" slip and fell over the rail.

 

They all had one thing in common .... They were DRUNK!

[sixgun8]

oops thought this was a joke about how many lawyers was too many... I'll move on.

[dan40]

My TA told me yesterday that her Carnival rep recently told her that the US Govt. is pushing to have the height of ALL railings on ALL Cruise Ships raised! They are trying to make it a LAW!

 

This will not only cost the cruise lines millions but we will be sailing in a Glass Ship without the breeze of the sea air. :mad:

 

Does anyone else thinks this sounds crazy?

 

It might have been in 2002. Congress DID discuss cruise ship safety, including a proposal to raise railings by 6 or 8 inches. In a rare instance of sanity prevailing in Congress, NOTHING came of any of the proposals.

[Aplmac]

Yes this is crazy.

 

They all had one thing in common .... They were DRUNK! ;)

And/or they had "issues" (usually domestic) -in which case

please guys.. don't abuse cruise ships for your final solution...please?

 

Find some other way..OK? :)

[vi reynolds]

Well, it looks as if two out of these three cases could have been suicide and I agree, where there is a will, there is a way.

 

I feel a bit sad that everything is so safety-cautious these days that they seem to be taking some of the enjoyment out of life.

 

I love to see my niece and nephews playing in my parents farm when they go to visit (they live in a city). That's how I grew up and we have so much freedom because the countryside was fairly safe then and we did have enough common sense not to injure ourselves (or at least not badly). Sadly my kid is likely to grow up in a city and for instance, in England, where I come from things have gone a bit ridiculous with some schools abolishing playground devices etc. Don't get me wrong, safety is necessary and I'm not a wreckless mother but everything in moderation...

[Casino Player]

I must say it puzzles me how this happen, unless someone is very drunk but even so. They must wonder off on their own or else their companions would prevent them from doing something silly. :confused:

 

I mean I'm sure drunkeness is not the only reason though but I certainly have no intention of climbing on the railings!

 

Either they get very drunk and try to be a wind sock or someone tries to relieve them of their possesions. Don't forget, crime could also be a motivator.

[dsmitty308]

Can someone explain to me why everyone gets so bent out of shape when about 110 people decide to go overboard off a cruise ship in a years time and yet no one seems to care that about 110 are killed EACH day on our streets and highways. Most of them are because of stupid drivers and most are not accidents!!!

 

Smitty

[Mr.Clean]

Can someone explain to me why everyone gets so bent out of shape when about 110 people decide to go overboard off a cruise ship in a years time and yet no one seems to care that about 110 are killed EACH day on our streets and highways. Most of them are because of stupid drivers and most are not accidents!!!

 

Smitty

Its because news about car accidents is common and boring as far as "journalists" are concerned. When a cruise ship is involved, its sensationalized. And the general public just eats it up.

[sixgun8]

not sure how the US can mandate and make law regarding ships that are not US Flagged???

[Aplmac]

Can someone explain to me why everyone gets so bent out of shape

when about 110 people decide to go overboard off a cruise ship in a years time

-and yet no one seems to care that about 110 are killed EACH day on our streets and highways.

Most of them are because of stupid drivers and most are not accidents!!!

It's also because Advertising has created the illusion in our minds

that Cruising is the absolute heavenly perfect expensive vacation

during which nothing goes wrong -ever. :)

 

 

And now the horror of some 'unfortunate individual'

(not a drunk, not a psycho, not a walking suicide)

who should somehow "accidentally" "fall" overboard

-and all because the railings were not quite high enough(under 2 ft.??)....;) ok 3 ft? :confused: ......

 

 

this upsets the plastic people who refuse to deal with the real world where, as you point out,

110 are killed in car crashes every day of life and death

and we all shrug our shoulders like Oh,Big Deal! :cool:

 

 

It's all about perceptions...and in this case(cruising) the perceptions are very UNreal.

With time, this too shall pass as humanity comes to realize

that every one of us is born with a normal,healthy sense of self-preservation

and the individual can nix that gift in order to self-destruct!

Happens all the time.

 

We just have a hard time accepting it

-particularly while on vacations where everything's supposed to be just Disney-perfect.

 

.

[dan40]

not sure how the US can mandate and make law regarding ships that are not US Flagged???

 

 

If a ship NEVER stops at a US port, they can't.

If it does stop at a US port, they can.

Also, any vessel within US territorial waters is under the control of the USCG.