Why do we HAVE to use porters?

[G'ma]

I guess the question would be whether they are considered "stevdores" or "longshoremen." While the words tend to be interchangeable, "stevedore" seems a more broad term. Longshoremen apparently make quite a bit more. Either way they both appear to be unionized and therefore their base rate may only be a small part of compensation.

 

http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Longshoreman/Hourly_Rate

 

Though the Port of Miami website uses "stevedore."

 

http://www.miamidade.gov/portofmiami/

 

 

What they are NOT is "porters". That term cracks me up.

 

Only the uninitiated would apply that term........

[G'ma]

Technically, longshoremen and stevedores are the people handling lines and loading the ships. Neither title really fits the guys taking our luggage. I think porter is the best term. Do you see anything for them?

 

As I said previously............................:D

[Gracie115]

Off top but........

Wait staff in CA make the state minimum wage which is 8.00 in the bay area it is 9.79. Some states pay tipped employees less than minimum wage but not all.

 

 

Also off topic and I'm not judging one way or another....but isn't CA about to go broke? How is it that they are able to pay upwards of 3 times the going rate for waiter/waitress. I'm in the Hospitality business and have worked in several states(all East coast though) and can't imagine paying wait staff $8.00, let alone $9.79/hour....

[cruzendude]

What they are NOT is "porters". That term cracks me up.

 

Only the uninitiated would apply that term........

 

your pretty full of yourself eh G'ma....I can ASSURE you my travels as a "tourist" and otherwise have me WELL INITIATED..and yes they are porters...

[aurelius180]

your pretty full of yourself eh G'ma....I can ASSURE you my travels as a "tourist" and otherwise have me WELL INITIATED..and yes they are porters...

 

 

I noticed his condescending (and incorrect information) posts this morning and hoped this thread would die off so I left it alone. :cool:

[Gonzo70]

Actually I just did.

 

http://www.jobsoncruiseliners.com/housekeeping-jobs/porter

 

It seems the first quote of $8.** was right on. So they are an hourly employee not working for tips. The rate is a bit low but considering it only requires a high school education the wage isn't out of line compared to other non-skilled labor jobs.

 

I guess the decision to tip depends on strictly on the person without respect to any norms. :cool:

 

I am not sure what you think this article is saying? It describes some of the job duties as escorting guests to their rooms and teaching them how to use the television. This is not a description of those working at the ports taking passenger's luggage who are boarding a cruise ship.

 

There are several articles that can easily be found via google that indicate that many of the so called "porters" at cruise ports are unionized longshoremen. As I posted on another thread longshoremen have very generous salaries (often six figures). The reason there are signs at the ports saying there is no need to tip is in all likelihood because these people are already being paid generously by their employer to take your luggage.

 

Here is an article where it says in 2002 they were paid $200 to help passengers unload luggage after a cruise - so if it takes four hours to debark, they were making $50/hour in 2002 without tips: http://www.seattlepi.com/business/89273_passenger01.shtml

 

Another article it is longshoremen taking your luggage to the ship:

http://ask.passporter.com/2007/01/14/disney-cruise-line-luggage-transfer/

 

And another:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4176/is_20080329/ai_n24977926/

 

And another:

http://www.bizjournals.com/tampabay/stories/2005/04/18/focus1.html

 

Wages of Longshoremen per Payscale website:

http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Longshoreman/Salary

 

I can understand people accidentally tipping them if they think they are equivalent to skycaps or bellmen at hotels. I can't understand people tipping them if (as lots of articles point out) they are highly salaried longshoremen who are already being generously compensated to handle your luggage by their employer. Sadly in other cases many people seem to be reluctantly tipping them out of fear they will lose their luggage otherwise - IMHO that is paying a bribe, not a tip. Remember, there are signs up at the port saying you do not need to tip them - those signs are there for a reason. If you ate at a restaurant and a were told that an 18% gratuity was automatically added to your bill, would you tip another 15%-20%? :confused:

[Aquahound]

your pretty full of yourself eh G'ma....I can ASSURE you my travels as a "tourist" and otherwise have me WELL INITIATED..and yes they are porters...

 

Consider the source. She isn't exactly known for posting accurate information around here.

[cruzendude]

Consider the source. She isn't exactly known for posting accurate information around here.

 

Sounds like I need to do my G'ma due diligence.....kinda new to the Royal board....I usually just hang out on boards I have cruises booked on and just booked my first 2 Royal cruises with the last on being in 11/10 so you all are just gonna have to put up with me for a while....

 

I'm sure by then G'ma will be THRILLED with me.....:eek: :D

[cruzendude]

I agree. Being prepared like that is the sign of a traveler...and there is a big difference between a traveler and a tourist.

 

I always have plenty of ones all together in my document folder where I keep confirmations' date=' cruise tickets, airline tickets, passport and other necessary items when traveling.

 

In my cabin, I put the singles in the drawer of the vanity where they are at hand for tipping room service.

 

Many people who assist you when you travel - cruise or otherwise - depend upon tips. In some places, it's simply the thing that is expected...in other areas, not so much.

 

It is part of my travel budget........as much as an airline ticket or rental car.[/quote']

 

I keep my singles in a money clip...does this make me a "tourist"? :rolleyes:

 

Does keeping all your documents, tickets and dollar bills in one folder make you a traveler......or just forgetful of where you place things? :eek: :D

[cruzendude]

Anyone seen G'ma? maybe she forgot about this? :eek: :p

[Laura.]

You walked to Port Everglades from your hotel?! :eek: How long did that take?

 

Yup!

 

Our hotel was right at the entrance to the port. If we were on Princess, it probably would have taken us 5-10 minutes, but Radiance was docked further down so it took us about 20-25 minutes. The funny part was that as we were walking, some storm clouds were rolling in and the downpour started right as we were crossing the street to the terminal.

 

It wasn't bad at all, though the "sidewalk" is not the best at certain points. We did get a lot of strange looks from cabbies along the way, though. :o

[aurelius180]

Technically, longshoremen and stevedores are the people handling lines and loading the ships. Neither title really fits the guys taking our luggage. I think porter is the best term. Do you see anything for them?

 

I haven't, but have seen Gonzo make reference to the fact they're actually longshoreman. The fact there are signs advising not to tip would lead me to believe he may be right. They can't come straight out and say "don't tip" but advising it isn't required would seem to be the politically correct way of conveying it.

 

At some point the cruise lines need to accept some costs and using employees who rely on tips to load their luggage doesn't seem to make sense. Although the porters don't actually load the luggage and therefore aren't doing the grunt work therefore mitigating the need for tips.

 

I always just tipped the porters but this conversation has arisen a few times in the last couple days and peeked my interest. :cool:

 

I am not sure what you think this article is saying? It describes some of the job duties as escorting guests to their rooms and teaching them how to use the television. This is not a description of those working at the ports taking passenger's luggage who are boarding a cruise ship.

 

From the link:

Transfer luggage, trunks, and packages to and from rooms, loading areas, vehicles, or transportation terminals, by hand or using baggage carts.

 

Receive and mark baggage by completing and attaching claim checks.

 

Median wages (2006) $8.83 hourly, $18,360 annual

 

There are several articles that can easily be found via google that indicate that many of the so called "porters" at cruise ports are unionized longshoremen. As I posted on another thread longshoremen have very generous salaries (often six figures). The reason there are signs at the ports saying there is no need to tip is in all likelihood because these people are already being paid generously by their employer to take your luggage.

 

I can understand people accidentally tipping them if they think they are equivalent to skycaps or bellmen at hotels. I can't understand people tipping them if (as lots of articles point out) they are highly salaried longshoremen who are already being generously compensated to handle your luggage by their employer. Sadly in other cases many people seem to be reluctantly tipping them out of fear they will lose their luggage otherwise - IMHO that is paying a bribe, not a tip. Remember, there are signs up at the port saying you do not need to tip them - those signs are there for a reason.

 

 

As you can see from the above, I read and agreed with your earlier posts on the subject. The post from me you quoted was a quick search in response to Aquahound's question. Your last paragraph simply regurgitates a part of my post but you prefaced it in your usual condescending way to make it all your own. ;)

[aloha of the seas]

All this talk about tips, and in some countries tipping is frowned upon

[Flacruiser123]

I'm in pretty good shape, and husband is as well, so if we have a manageable amount of luggage to handle, we prefer handling it ourselves. With all the spinning wheels on luggage and new weight and size limits for luggage on the airlines, there seems to be less times that we actually need assistance these days. And then there is something something about putting your luggage on the cart yourself that instills confidence (real or imagined) that it will actually GET THERE.

 

However, on those occasions when our luggage has been too much for us to handle, I/we seek (seek being the operative word) the assistance of porters and gratefully tip. I admit to sometimes staring longingly at our luggage as it is rolled away by some guy off to neverland and praying that it will actually GET THERE...:D

 

I have seen some ports in which the porters are just as you described. This happened to us in Miami several years ago so we avoid that port if we can - and I live in Florida! Why let this simple thing deter us from Miami? Because we are on vacation and want to avoid the stress of (rewarding) bullies at the beginning and ending of our vacations.

 

And we have run across some really wonderful, helpful porters as well, both in non-tipping-allowed and tipping ports.

 

In Alaska we did a week land tour before our 7 day cruise. Lots of luggage and stuff. Lots of hotels, taxis, airports, excursions, etc. LOTS of tips paid gratefully to wonderful people we SOUGHT out to assist us.

 

Yes, I always go to the bank ahead of time and have my stash of $1's and $5's for the taxis, excursions, etc...and porters when needed.:)

[Gonzo70]

As you can see from the above, I read and agreed with your earlier posts on the subject. The post from me you quoted was a quick search in response to Aquahound's question. Your last paragraph simply regurgitates a part of my post but you prefaced it in your usual condescending way to make it all your own. ;)

 

I am not sure what was condescending about my post; I was trying to keep it as accurate and objective as possible. The link you gave mentioned all sorts of duties that have nothing to do with what the so called "porters" at cruise terminals do. Sure it mentioned taking luggage, but it also mentioned several tasks that involve being on board the ship - so it clearly was not a description of the "porters" this thread was discussing; therefore the $8.xx figure was misleading.

[domdombus]

Just a question....When we were on Legend out of Tampa (Feb. '09), we were not allowed to bring our own luggage into the terminal. AND the porter did wait for a tip to bring it in, my husband and I fumbled to find some dollar bills - definately didn't feel he deserved a $10 or $20 bill to walk 10 feet. Is it a security thing??:( I do remember wheeling it in on previous cruises.

 

Waited for a tip??? and you obliged??? This type of behavior is why he even had the nuts to do that.

I would have had quite a few words with the dude.

There is no reason to tip anyone for anything especially to bring your luggage 10ft through the door to a dolly.

 

My last cruise they was getting loud telling me they need to take it in. You don't get loud with me. I brought my own luggage to the dolly.

 

It would be so much easier on people with these people if the majority did not give into their demands and fear they might mess with your luggage.

 

Do you fumble through your change when window washers swarm your car at a red light?

[Esmerelda]

I had a real smart*** porter say to me (as we were getting out of the cab for our honeymoon cruise), "remember; I'm the last person that will see your luggage..you want it to get to the ship on time now don't you." :mad:

 

I happen to love a challenge and had my digital camera in my hand. I quickly snapped his photo (and we were close) and I reminded him that my luggage had better get there because I had a really great photo of him. :D

 

My new husband was so p****d that I don't believe he tipped him anything. I will not let someone threaten me like that and expect a tip...no way.

 

I think our luggage (2 bags) was moved a whole 2 feet to the bin right next to the cab. I watched as a different porter moved that bin with a forklift NOT the original 'in your face' jerkl as I exited the cab.

 

<believes in tipping well when it's deserved...not when it's extorted

[grandsix]

i had a real smart*** porter say to me (as we were getting out of the cab for our honeymoon cruise), "remember; i'm the last person that will see your luggage..you want it to get to the ship on time now don't you." :mad:

 

I happen to love a challenge and had my digital camera in my hand. I quickly snapped his photo (and we were close) and i reminded him that my luggage had better get there because i had a really great photo of him. :d

 

my new husband was so p****d that i don't believe he tipped him anything. I will not let someone threaten me like that and expect a tip...no way.

 

I think our luggage (2 bags) was moved a whole 2 feet to the bin right next to the cab. I watched as a different porter moved that bin with a forklift not the original 'in your face' jerkl as i exited the cab.

 

<believes in tipping well when it's deserved...not when it's extorted

 

well done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[G'ma]

your pretty full of yourself eh G'ma....I can ASSURE you my travels as a "tourist" and otherwise have me WELL INITIATED..and yes they are porters...

 

No, I know what I'm talking about. I read....

 

Those at ports who load and unload luggage are members of the International Lonshore and Warehouse Union, ALF-CIO. They are hired and paid by the local city and county governments.

 

They are not "porters" but rather, stevedores and longshoremen who work at the ports around the country. Some work the passengers terminals, others the cargo terminals and still others cross over. In all, over 110,000 are employeed by the Port of Miami.

 

ILWU is a huge and powerful union that can bring any port to it's knees with a work stoppage......

 

"Porter" is more defined as a person hired to handle luggage...like a skycap or a bellman at a hotel or similar. Longshoremen certainly don't fit that description.

 

One other thing; I believe we can have an adult debate here without snarky remarks....what do you think?

[G'ma]

I noticed his condescending (and incorrect information) posts this morning and hoped this thread would die off so I left it alone. :cool:

 

"He" is a "she".....thank you.

[G'ma]

Consider the source. She isn't exactly known for posting accurate information around here.

 

Really?

 

Source, please.

[G'ma]

I keep my singles in a money clip...does this make me a "tourist"? :rolleyes:

 

Does keeping all your documents, tickets and dollar bills in one folder make you a traveler......or just forgetful of where you place things? :eek: :D

 

I believe the discussion in the post was being prepared when traveling...not the method one uses.

 

The difference between "tourist" and "traveler" is huge.......

 

"The traveler sees what he sees. The tourist sees what he has come to see." -G.K. Chesterton

 

"The traveler was active; he went strenuously in search of people, of adventure, of experience. The tourist is passive; he expects interesting things to happen to him. He goes "sight-seeing." -Daniel J. Boorstin

[aurelius180]

I guess the question would be whether they are considered "stevdores" or "longshoremen." While the words tend to be interchangeable, "stevedore" seems a more broad term. Longshoremen apparently make quite a bit more. Either way they both appear to be unionized and therefore their base rate may only be a small part of compensation.

 

http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Longshoreman/Hourly_Rate

 

Though the Port of Miami website uses "stevedore."

 

http://www.miamidade.gov/portofmiami/

 

Technically, longshoremen and stevedores are the people handling lines and loading the ships. Neither title really fits the guys taking our luggage. I think porter is the best term. Do you see anything for them?

 

I am not sure what was condescending about my post; I was trying to keep it as accurate and objective as possible. The link you gave mentioned all sorts of duties that have nothing to do with what the so called "porters" at cruise terminals do. Sure it mentioned taking luggage, but it also mentioned several tasks that involve being on board the ship - so it clearly was not a description of the "porters" this thread was discussing; therefore the $8.xx figure was misleading.

 

 

Well for one, you asked why I posted that link. I posted that link because Aquahound asked if I had read anything regarding "porter" and found the job description from a site "jobs on cruiseliners." So the link was in response to a specific seperate question from the OP but still generally within the framework of the OP. I had already posted information regarding a longshoreman's duties and their pay scale from, coincidentally, the same website you later referenced only I posted hourly wage and you posted yearly salary.

 

While I don't doubt that the "porters" at the cruise terminal are actually "longshoreman" who are very well paid and unionized, neither job description ("porter" or "longshoreman") accurately described the job in question. I was simply engaging in a discussion (on a discussion board) with Aquahound regarding potential discrepencies in the job descriptions already posted. Even in the links you provide regarding longshoreman they don't actually say that longshoreman receive luggage from, and give guidance to passengers. Only that they are responsible for loading the cargo on the ship (not necessarily the same job) among other duties. "Porter" describes somone who, amongst other duties, receives luggage from the passengers and gives guidance to them. Again, neither description fits the context of this question exactly and leaves open room for friendly discussion which we were engaging in.

 

Wiki actually makes a very good reference to seaport porters:

 

"In many public places such as airports, border crossings, sea ports and railway stations, porters are often a nuisance to tourists, taking their luggage without permission and demanding excessive fees." ;)

 

And before you harp on me for posting incorrect information because cruise porters are required to receive our luggage, it's just a joke.

[Aquahound]

Well for one, you asked why I posted that link. I posted that link because Aquahound asked if I had read anything regarding "porter" and found the job description from a site "jobs on cruiseliners."

 

And, Aurelius, I do thank you.

 

I thought this turned in to an interesting conversation and I certainly learned something from it.

 

One thing I'm still unsure on, though, is the exact definition of the guys who take the luggage from our cars and load them on a rack. I do not think they are longshoremen or stevedores. Having consulted Wikipedia, I still think porter is the best description.

 

....and I certianly do not believe the porters make 6 figures. ;)

[coordinator23]

Are we allowed to walk a few feet and drop off our own luggage OR is it a "security thing" that we are not allowed to bring it in? That's why I wanted to know if we "needed" a porter. There is still some confusion about this, based upon what I have read.

I understand those who work for tips. I usually leave 15-20% for lunch and 20% for dinner when I eat out. I do have a problem with "tip" jars that have popped up at fast food places, but I often drop my "silver" change in them.

After tipping the taxi driver and gathering our luggage, my husband and I planned on walking into the "drop off" spot and depositing our luggage. Instead, we were told we couldn't. The "porter" (or whatever title you like to use) said we were not allowed to. The walk to get into the terminal was longer than the few feet to the luggage drop off. If we have to use them - fine, but let me know ahead of time. We're not being cheap - just like to make sure, by doing it ourselves, that the luggage gets to where it belongs.