It's Official... Celebrity is rolling out Open Seating on all ships

[terrierjohn]

[quote name='CLEMM']Which would mean that select diners would be intermingled with traditional diners, which in my opinion would detract from the traditional experience. That is my concern.[/quote]
I am expecting that it will operate in a similar way to the RCCL version with a discrete area of the MDR seperated from the TD diners.
This would probably mean that approximately one half of the upper deck MDR would be available for Celebrity select , probably with the divider at the opposite end to the entrance, and adjusted to account for passenger dining choice numbers.
Just a guess but this would seem to be the least intrusive, and less likely to inconvenience TD diners.
Unless of course they want to bring opera glasses to check on the eating habits of the "lower" class anytime diners, which is where I will be.:rolleyes:

[CLEMM]

Because I believe that it will be detrimental to both traditionalists and selects to intermingle them, I too believe(hope) that there will be separate dining areas. However, that is NOT what the spokesman implied(said) in his release. What he said was that the approx 400 diners who currently choose a specialty restaurant on any given night would free up room for select dining. I still don't see how THAT would work unless we are intermingled. So, either we will be intermingled or the spokesman was incorrect in how this new program will work.

[wg6530]

[quote name='lifevicarious']I have to ask, why does your DH care if people are tardy? It's their vacation, they can do what they want when they want. If your husband gets upset about people he doesn't know showing up late for dinner, I think he needs to take more vacations!!:D[/quote]

Why? Maybe stern toilet training or too many years in parochial schools? Who knows? I plan loads of vacations. While I doubt more will help, I'm willing to try:D. Basically, he follows the rules, shows up on time and thinks others should, too. He thinks the cruiseline sets the traditional dining times for a reason, presumably so all guests can receive excellent food and service on both seatings. He thinks it is rude to show up consistently late and expect ultra fast service or, alternatively, intrude on the late dining schedule. Yeah, I've heard it all. I figure it is the cruiseline's issue, not mine, so I really don't care. Heck, they might only want one course and be the easiest customers.

[lifevicarious]

[quote name='CLEMM']Because I believe that it will be detrimental to both traditionalists and selects to intermingle them, I too believe(hope) that there will be separate dining areas. However, that is NOT what the spokesman implied(said) in his release. What he said was that the approx 400 diners who currently choose a specialty restaurant on any given night would free up room for select dining. I still don't see how THAT would work unless we are intermingled. So, either we will be intermingled or the spokesman was incorrect in how this new program will work.[/quote]

I don't think traditional and ATD would need to be intermingled per se. I do however think that your table (if traditional) could be occupied by other traditional diners that are not normally at your table.

Let's say there are 1,000 diners at a seating. 200 of those diners decide to eat at a specialty restaurant which frees up 200 seats. Instead of leaving 200 empty seats scattered around the MDR, the Maitre'd could converge tables leaving seats for 200 in tables on one side/one level of the MDR for ATD guests.

While some traditionalists may not like the idea of new people being put at their table for a night, it seems it would be better then staring at empty seats for an entire dinner, especially when one of the reasons people love traditional is the opportunity to dine with others.

But I think a better solution would be to simply ask cruisers before the cruise if they want traditional or ATD. If 60% of the guests want ATD, 40% of the dining room will be reserved for Traditional and vice versa. It seems easy enough to me. As opposed to reserving one section for each cruise, it seems it would be much easier to allow peoples actual choice dictate how much of the MDR is reserved for ATD/Traditional.

There could be some issues with ATD diners not getting the exact time they want on a given night but that would be far less restrictive to ATD diners then only having two different choices.

[CLEMM]

[quote name='lifevicarious']I don't think traditional and ATD would need to be intermingled per se. I do however think that your table (if traditional) could be occupied by other traditional diners that are not normally at your table.

Let's say there are 1,000 diners at a seating. 200 of those diners decide to eat at a specialty restaurant which frees up 200 seats. Instead of leaving 200 empty seats scattered around the MDR, the Maitre'd could converge tables leaving seats for 200 in tables on one side/one level of the MDR for ATD guests.

While some traditionalists may not like the idea of new people being put at their table for a night, it seems it would be better then staring at empty seats for an entire dinner, especially when one of the reasons people love traditional is the opportunity to dine with others.

But I think a better solution would be to simply ask cruisers before the cruise if they want traditional or ATD. If 60% of the guests want ATD, 40% of the dining room will be reserved for Traditional and vice versa. It seems easy enough to me. As opposed to reserving one section for each cruise, it seems it would be much easier to allow peoples actual choice dictate how much of the MDR is reserved for ATD/Traditional.

There could be some issues with ATD diners not getting the exact time they want on a given night but that would be far less restrictive to ATD diners then only having two different choices.[/quote]


Well I would have a problem with this. I like meeting people and I like traditional, but I would not like being told that I am going to have to move to a different table for a night because my tablemates were in the specialty restaurant. I would have a different waitstaff and would be joining a different group for one night. THAT would be changing what traditional is and would certainly detract from the experience.

[Gracie115]

[quote name='terrierjohn']I am expecting that it will operate in a similar way to the RCCL version with a discrete area of the MDR seperated from the TD diners.
This would probably mean that approximately one half of the upper deck MDR would be available for Celebrity select , probably with the divider at the opposite end to the entrance, and adjusted to account for passenger dining choice numbers.
Just a guess but this would seem to be the least intrusive, and less likely to inconvenience TD diners.
Unless of course they want to bring opera glasses to check on the eating habits of the "lower" class anytime diners, which is where I will be.:rolleyes:[/quote]


and I'll be right there with you.....I've had it with this thread...no one seems to want to HEAR that X's sister cruise line has been doing this for a year...they do NOT intermingle traditional and MTD guests, they do not add people to tables once dinner has started, you can get the same wait staff, you can get the same table, people do not "dress down" who are part of MTD......I MEAN DOES ANYONE REALLY THINK THAT "X" IS GOING TO COMPLETELY IGNORE THE YEAR LONG EXPERIENCE THAT ROYAL HAS GIVEN THEM??? Come on....they are not going to ignore what they already know works....

[CLEMM]

[quote name='Gracie115']and I'll be right there with you.....I've had it with this thread...no one seems to want to HEAR that X's sister cruise line has been doing this for a year...they do NOT intermingle traditional and MTD guests, they do not add people to tables once dinner has started, you can get the same wait staff, you can get the same table, people do not "dress down" who are part of MTD......I MEAN DOES ANYONE REALLY THINK THAT "X" IS GOING TO COMPLETELY IGNORE THE YEAR LONG EXPERIENCE THAT ROYAL HAS GIVEN THEM??? Come on....they are not going to ignore what they already know works....[/quote]



I hear what you are saying, but did you hear what the spokesman said? He SAID specialty diners would free space for select diners. I hope you know more than the spokesman, but I worry.

[lifevicarious]

[quote name='CLEMM']Well I would have a problem with this. I like meeting people and I like traditional, but I would not like being told that I am going to have to move to a different table for a night because my tablemates were in the specialty restaurant. I would have a different waitstaff and would be joining a different group for one night. THAT would be changing what traditional is and would certainly detract from the experience.[/quote]

No "heat" intended but if you were at a table for 8, and 6 of those 8 decide to eat at a specialty restaurant, you would want to sit at an 8top with simply you and your spouse? To me, and it's only my opinion, but I certainly would not want that. Not only would it feel odd, it would be a colossal waste.

[CLEMM]

[quote name='lifevicarious']No "heat" intended but if you were at a table for 8, and 6 of those 8 decide to eat at a specialty restaurant, you would want to sit at an 8top with simply you and your spouse? To me, and it's only my opinion, but I certainly would not want that. Not only would it feel odd, it would be a colossal waste.[/quote]


No heat taken. I agree, that would be odd and I would hope that I would know from my tablemates if that was going to be the case, but that aside, I just think that if selects are going to be amongst traditionalists, even if that means they are at the next table and not the same table, then it will detract from the traditional experience. That is all I am saying. IF the selects are in a separate part of the dining room, then great. BUT again, that is NOT what was implied by the spokesman.

[lifevicarious]

[quote name='CLEMM']No heat taken. I agree, that would be odd and I would hope that I would know from my tablemates if that was going to be the case, but that aside, I just think that if selects are going to be amongst traditionalists, even if that means they are at the next table and not the same table, then it will detract from the traditional experience. That is all I am saying. IF the selects are in a separate part of the dining room, then great. BUT again, that is NOT what was implied by the spokesman.[/quote]

Fair enough. I guess we will wait and see what happens.

I am slightly dissapointed as was another poster as I am on the 9/13 Equinox sailing and it appears this will be implemented on the 9/26 sailing. One more cruise of traditional dining!

[richsea]

Enough with the hand wringing what ifs:eek:.. How about everyone waits until it becomes reality instead of getting all worked up over scenarios that may never come to pass?

[CLEMM]

[quote name='richsea']Enough with the hand wringing what ifs:eek:.. How about everyone waits until it becomes reality instead of getting all worked up over scenarios that may never come to pass?[/quote]


But that would take all the fun out of these Boards. ;)

[Gracie115]

[quote name='richsea']enough with the hand wringing what ifs:eek:.. How about everyone waits until it becomes reality instead of getting all worked up over scenarios that may never come to pass?[/quote]


amen!!!!!

[Elenna]

I have a silly question, and this is not meant to be inflamatory at all! This is coming from a virgin cruiser, who is ignorant of all-things-cruise. :)

I hear a lot of talk from "Traditionalists" wanting to separate the "Select" folks from themselves, either in a separate dining room or a different side of the room.

I'm curious about the atmosphere that the "Traditionalists" are protecting, simply out of ignorance. I am assuming that, in traditional seating, you are assigned to sit with the same people throughout the cruise, and people at the table communicate with each other if they are choosing a specialty restaurant for an evening. Does the "atmosphere" come from sitting with the same people, or something else?

Now, I'm not entirely sure if I'm reading this correctly, but I'm getting the feeling that the Traditionalists feel that the Selects may ruin that atmosphere by encorporating additional "rotating" people either at their table, or near their table. Is there a fear that they may act differently, dress less formally, etc?

Am I reading that right? Please do explain the magical pull of the Traditional Dining Experience so I can "get it". :) Maybe it's because there is less distraction when people arrive at the same time, and don't need to scoot their chairs around letting others in at a later time?

Are there Select Diners that would prefer not to sit with Traditionalists?

Now, I'm not trying to be inflammatory, or poke fun, or anything. I'm not trying to stir the pot, I'm honestly trying to understand why there is a push to segregate.

[CLEMM]

[quote name='Elenna']I have a silly question, and this is not meant to be inflamatory at all! This is coming from a virgin cruiser, who is ignorant of all-things-cruise. :)

I hear a lot of talk from "Traditionalists" wanting to separate the "Select" folks from themselves, either in a separate dining room or a different side of the room.

I'm curious about the atmosphere that the "Traditionalists" are protecting, simply out of ignorance. I am assuming that, in traditional seating, you are assigned to sit with the same people throughout the cruise, and people at the table communicate with each other if they are choosing a specialty restaurant for an evening. Does the "atmosphere" come from sitting with the same people, or something else?

Now, I'm not entirely sure if I'm reading this correctly, but I'm getting the feeling that the Traditionalists feel that the Selects may ruin that atmosphere by encorporating additional "rotating" people either at their table, or near their table. Is there a fear that they may act differently, dress less formally, etc?

Am I reading that right? Please do explain the magical pull of the Traditional Dining Experience so I can "get it". :) Maybe it's because there is less distraction when people arrive at the same time, and don't need to scoot their chairs around letting others in at a later time?

Are there Select Diners that would prefer not to sit with Traditionalists?

Now, I'm not trying to be inflammatory, or poke fun, or anything. I'm not trying to stir the pot, I'm honestly trying to understand why there is a push to segregate.[/quote]


It is exactly as you stated. The disturbance would be from people coming and going at various stages of dining that would IMHO disturb the traditional dining experience. I am not at all concerned about people acting or dressing differently, there will be, I assume, all types of people and dress in both groups. It is just that in traditional dining everyone is at the same stage in the meal so no one is leaving as you are ordering, or arriving as you are getting desert, etc. For instance, the baked Alaska parade was done because everyone was at the end of their meal at the same time. Some people prefer traditional, some not. As long as both get what they like it is all good.

[Elenna]

[quote name='CLEMM']It is exactly as you stated. The disturbance would be from people coming and going at various stages of dining that would IMHO disturb the traditional dining experience. I am not at all concerned about people acting or dressing differently, there will be, I assume, all types of people and dress in both groups. It is just that in traditional dining everyone is at the same stage in the meal so no one is leaving as you are ordering, or arriving as you are getting desert, etc. For instance, the baked Alaska parade was done because everyone was at the end of their meal at the same time. Some people prefer traditional, some not. As long as both get what they like it is all good.[/quote]

Thanks, Clemm! That does make sense to me, and now I have a craving for baked alaska. :p

[FinelyCruising]

[quote name='CLEMM']I hear what you are saying, but did you hear what the spokesman said? He SAID specialty diners would free space for select diners. I hope you know more than the spokesman, but I worry.[/quote]

Here why it will free space. There are two seatings, lets call them 6pm and 8:30. There are many who feel 6 is too early and 8:30 to late, but they are forced to chose one or the other.

So if someone likes to dine at 7PM , that is the time they will take for MTD and it will simply free up the 6pm slot that many do like.

The MDR is going to be a staggered dining room. I think that the area assigned to MTD will ebb and flow based on how many have the option, but I think there will be a limit to the number of guests who can chose MTD. In effect the galley will be challenged with much more to ensure timing and satisfaction for everyone.

I think that the success RCCL has had will lead off this initiative. I think the reluctance of some is as a result of poor food options/venues on other lines that are not completely clear to all of us here either due to use and dislike or just hearing about use and dislike on the perhiphery. Rember, X and RCCL do have some good food, all of the other lines can't really boast that.

I am going to give it a go. The worst thing that can happen with MTD is the worst thing that can happen with fixed seatings. I am sure that X will go out of their way to make all of us happy at dinner, no differently than they already do now.

[CLEMM]

Here why it will free space. There are two seatings, lets call them 6pm and 8:30. There are many who feel 6 is too early and 8:30 to late, but they are forced to chose one or the other.

So if someone likes to dine at 7PM , that is the time they will take for MTD and it will simply free up the 6pm slot that many do like.

[COLOR=red]I get that, I just don't get what this has to do with the choice of specialty dining. Unless you assume that people go to specialty dining ONLY because they can get a different time and therfore the 400 specialty diners would always want select. But we know that is not the case. [/COLOR]

[DougK]

[quote name='CLEMM'][COLOR=red]I get that, I just don't get what this has to do with the choice of specialty dining. Unless you assume that people go to specialty dining ONLY because they can get a different time and therfore the 400 specialty diners would always want select. But we know that is not the case. [/COLOR][/quote]

The connection with specialty dining is for those that choose open seating, not traditional. Look at it this way: If there were no specialty restaurants, N people are in open seating, the average person takes H hours to eat, and the total dining period is P, Celebrity would need to have enough tables in open seating to accommodate N*H/P diners -- plus a considerable buffer to account for the fact that people will cluster in when they want to eat. But with specialty restaurants, all of a sudden the N number gets reduced, because a significant number of people will eat in a specialty restaurant instead of the MDR. I don't have any reason to believe there is higher preference for specialty restaurants among those who choose either open or traditional, but certainly some percentage of open seating people will opt for specialty restaurants on any given night. What this means is that they need fewer tables to accommodate open seating than one might expect at first blush, even accounting for the necessary buffer.

And this is one factor that makes open seating attractive to cruise lines. With traditional seating, there is a big inefficiency, with a significant number of seats going unused in the MDR every night due to people opting to dine elsewhere (specialty, casual, room service). There's also an inefficiency having to do with needing to make the dining period long enough to satisfy the slowest of diners, resulting in seats being open for significant periods as faster diners leave earlier and the next seating isn't yet scheduled. With open seating, both of those inefficiencies disappear; an available seat can always be used. Those inefficiencies are, of course, replaced with the new inefficiency of buffering to account for clustering, but I'm willing to bet that Celebrity has decided that the overall efficiency gain is higher than the loss.

And specialty restaurants are a big part of it, by diverting a number of people from the MDR. This is why open seating works well on Azamara, and improved after they substantially reduced the fee to dine in their specialty restaurants. It's also why Celebrity is starting the process on the Solstice class ships, which have the widest variety of dining venues. The biggest challenge for open seating is going to be on Mercury, which has no significant alternative to the MDR -- only casual dining and room service, not a specialty restaurant.

[TomTN]

[quote name='CLEMM']Here why it will free space. There are two seatings, lets call them 6pm and 8:30. There are many who feel 6 is too early and 8:30 to late, but they are forced to chose one or the other.

So if someone likes to dine at 7PM , that is the time they will take for MTD and it will simply free up the 6pm slot that many do like.

[COLOR=red]I get that, I just don't get what this has to do with the choice of specialty dining. Unless you assume that people go to specialty dining ONLY because they can get a different time and therfore the 400 specialty diners would always want select. But we know that is not the case. [/COLOR][/quote]

Clemm, You're beating a dead horse. You are correct though. It does not make sense, but I believe Celebrity will do a decent job with MTD.
No doubt the notice was written by RCL to embarrass Celebrity. They have always been jealous of Celebrity, and they have made countless changes to try to destroy them.;)

[CLEMM]

[quote name='DougK']The connection with specialty dining is for those that choose open seating, not traditional. Look at it this way: If there were no specialty restaurants, N people are in open seating, the average person takes H hours to eat, and the total dining period is P, Celebrity would need to have enough tables in open seating to accommodate N*H/P diners -- plus a considerable buffer to account for the fact that people will cluster in when they want to eat. But with specialty restaurants, all of a sudden the N number gets reduced, because a significant number of people will eat in a specialty restaurant instead of the MDR. I don't have any reason to believe there is higher preference for specialty restaurants among those who choose either open or traditional, but certainly some percentage of open seating people will opt for specialty restaurants on any given night. What this means is that they need fewer tables to accommodate open seating than one might expect at first blush, even accounting for the necessary buffer.

And this is one factor that makes open seating attractive to cruise lines. With traditional seating, [COLOR=red]there is a big inefficiency, with a significant number of seats going unused in the MDR every night due to people opting to dine elsewhere (specialty, casual, room service). There's also an inefficiency having to do with needing to make the dining period long enough to satisfy the slowest of diners, resulting in seats being open for significant periods as faster diners leave earlier and the next seating isn't yet scheduled. With open seating, both of those inefficiencies disappear; an available seat can always be used.[/COLOR] Those inefficiencies are, of course, replaced with the new inefficiency of buffering to account for clustering, but I'm willing to bet that Celebrity has decided that the overall efficiency gain is higher than the loss.

And specialty restaurants are a big part of it, by diverting a number of people from the MDR. This is why open seating works well on Azamara, and improved after they substantially reduced the fee to dine in their specialty restaurants. It's also why Celebrity is starting the process on the Solstice class ships, which have the widest variety of dining venues. The biggest challenge for open seating is going to be on Mercury, which has no significant alternative to the MDR -- only casual dining and room service, not a specialty restaurant.[/quote]



aaaaah! I am going to give this dead horse one last kick. How is that seat that has been emptied by a traditional tablemate going for one night to a specialty restaurant going to be used? That is what I want to know. If a select diner is going to be put there then that will detract from traditional. OK, I'm done. I think. I just hope it plays out as well as everyone is saying and not the way the spokesman implied.

[keiki40]

I can only agree to what FinelyCruising stated: Last month we sailed on Freedom of the Seas and we chose MTD for the first time even though we like the traditional dining very much. Why? Always the same problem: 6:00 is too early and 8:30 p.m. is much too late. When we are at home we try not to have dinner later that 6:00/6:30 p.m. That's too early when staying on a cruise ship, because quite often you haven't even left the port of call at that time and on the opposite side having a meal at 8:30 p.m. is supposed to be not that healthy. That's why we chose the MTD. We had the same dining time (7:00 p.m.) each day, the same friendly waiters each day who cared for us the same way we were treated during the traditional dining, the same table each day and of course we dressed properly as we really love the formal nights.

When watching other people who had MTD on that cruise there was one thing that caught our eyes: most of these guests were more properly dressed and behaved better than some of the guests who were on the traditional dining.

So please stop complaining about things you never experiened before.

RCCL did a great job during our cruise and I cannot believe that there were any guests from the traditional dining who felt disturbed by the MTD-guests.

We love to cruise X and we are looking forward to the Select dining. X will be able to perform it as perfect as RCCL can.

Enjoy your coming cruises!!!

[lifevicarious]

[quote name='CLEMM']aaaaah! I am going to give this dead horse one last kick. How is that seat that has been emptied by a traditional tablemate going for one night to a specialty restaurant going to be used? That is what I want to know. If a select diner is going to be put there then that will detract from traditional. OK, I'm done. I think. I just hope it plays out as well as everyone is saying and not the way the spokesman implied.[/quote]

I gave you one way earlier. I'm not saying that's how it will be done but it is an option.

I also don't think the spokesmen implied any method of how that seat will be used. He just stated that 400 seats a night are empty gving them "flexibility". I don't understand why "flexibility" automatically means they will place others at your table in the middle of your dinner. Celebrity is not that stupid.

[DougK]

[quote name='CLEMM']How is that seat that has been emptied by a traditional tablemate going for one night to a specialty restaurant going to be used? That is what I want to know.[/quote]

I strongly suspect it will continue to be an inefficiently used empty seat. I don't read the spokesperson as implying anything different. All I take from what he said is that people going to specialty restaurants allows them to make more efficient use of seating overall -- which means they can accommodate open seating with fewer tables, as I discussed above. But for the portion of the MDR devoted to traditional dining, the existing inefficiencies will continue.

[CLEMM]

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