Trip Insurance quandry

Anyone have experience in filing a claim with TravelGuard for a HAL cruise? Here's our quandry...

We recently booked 4 cabins (8 people) for a Feb 2016 Australia/NZ cruise through a major membership warehouse. Both of our mothers are going (and sharing a cabin). One of them is 76yo with a family history of Alzheimers and increasing bouts of forgetfulness. She has not been diagnosed with Alheimers (yet), but we plan to take her in for testing within a month. We just returned from an Alaska cruise with her and she's getting worse faster than we had realized, and we now have serious doubts whether she'll be able to handle a much longer trip (20 days) in February.

So far we've only paid the deposit on the cruise and final payment isn't due until Nov. The deposit is fully refundable. However, canceling the cabin outright would ruin it for the cabinmate, and she can't afford to pay for the full $5400 cabin (i.e. a 100% single supplement).

TravelGuard trip insurance for the 76yo would be $176 for the "covered" reasons ($280 more to include "cancel for any reason"). It says it covers single supplement if the other person pulls out for "covered reasons". So all this adds up to a number of questions...

1. Would an Alzheimers diagnosis between booking and the trip date be something they would likely accept as a valid claim?

2. I assume we'd need to buy the insurance before any diagnosis (so we don't get hung up on a "pre-existing condition" exclusion)? Or would that not even work?

3. Should we buy the insurance for the 76yo, or for the cabinmate that's would still travel? The "Single Occupancy Benefit" looks like it might cover the other half of the cabin cost (if for a valid medical reason, and within the other allowed parameters).

4. What happens if the diagnosis occurs before the due date of final payment? Will they deny the claim because we could have cancelled the trip with full refund (even though that means the 2nd cabinmate wouldn't be able to go?

It's all so confusing. I know the easy answer is just to buy the "cancel for any reason" insurance, but that pushes the insurance cost up to $456 which is awfully expensive. We'd like to get by with just one $176 cost for the covered reasons (if this qualifies).

Any help is appreciated.

These are specific questions to ask the potential insurer.

Each policy needs to be analyzed for exactly what the verbage is. TravelGuard has more than one type policy.

There are other insurers to investigate if you don't like what you learn from TravelGuard.

One question to look straight in the face.....

Are you more concerned about a policy premium of $456 or about a cabin cost for a solo of $5,400?

Are you more concerned about a policy premium of $456 or about a cabin cost for a solo of $5,400?

It's not just one or the other, it's both. I try to weigh the risk against the cost. As a general rule, we usually self-insure (i.e. forgo travel insurance and just pay the price if anything were to happen). After 15 cruises, we've saved at least the cost of one extra cruise by not paying for insurance over and over. But that's just for my partner and I, who are in our 50's and in generally good health. The odds of a medical cancellation are much higher for the 76yo so we have to weigh those options for how it would affect the cabinmate. It it were just the 76yo alone, it wouldn't be much of an issue since we could always cancel 100 days out (we did buy separate airfare insurance since we wanted to lock in those fares now but that was only $32).

I just like to know as many of the options first before maying a choice, and asking here often yields valable answers. :)

I fully understand and my late DH and I always self-insured but for medical care outside the country. We never insured the price of the trip.

You have now posted to a public internet forum that you suspect there is a chance one in your party may already be suffering a debilitating illness which may prevent her from traveling but you have not yet purchased insurance. Are you sure she is now insurable seeing research by insurance companies is so simple and maybe a claim could be denied? I am no lawyer nor insurance agent but you are looking to buy insurance for something that may no longer be coverable. I could be totally wrong and have no idea what I am talking about. I do know that were I worried about a $5,400 cabin fare, I would pay the $456 to cover the risk if I felt there was a genuine chance cancellation may be necessary.

Good luck and all best wishes. This is a horrid disease and I hope you are able to get good care for her and she does well.

Are you looking at buying the insurance through HAL's Platinum Insurance? It is based on the price of your trip and not your age and covers pre-existing conditions. You have until final payment to buy the insurance and it has the cancel for any reason clause.

We purchased HAL Platinum because we were tired of trying to read through all he fine print of insurance providers re pre-existing conditions.

The OP speaks of getting a diagnosis in the short term...most of the policies we looked at stated that if a referral or a diagnosis is pending and is on record coverage is not available to purchase at that time.

Insurance companies have access to all your medical records and anything on your record will come into consideration on the claim. There have been cases lately where insurance companies have denied claims because the purchaser did

not disclose a medical condition that was on their record even though the condition may have resolved itself many years prior.

:eek: How can it be expected a person in their sixties can recall every small or large illness they have had during their lifetime? I wouldn't think to mention if I had the mumps (for example) in grade school or strep throat five years ago. :D

Before you purchase any type of insurance, be sure to verify exactly how Alzheimer's is classified by the policy. Many insurers erroneously consider it as a mental health issue rather than the progressive, ultimately fatal, neurological disease that it is. These insurers will refuse to pay, citing the clause in the policy that mental health issues are not covered.

I have had to make 2 claims on policies sold by Travel Guard and have never had any issues. But! I always purchased these policies within the time period required in order for pre-exisiting conditions to be covered.

Like others, no expert on insurance, but it sounds to me that your relative could be considered to having a pre-existing condition and purchasing after the specified time period would be a waste of your money.

I also recommend speaking with Travel Guard. Their representatives are most helpful whenever I have had a question or concern.

I concur with rka... you have nothing to lose by getting correct information from the experts. All you will get here is opinions, with the best of.intentions.

Before you purchase any type of insurance, be sure to verify exactly how Alzheimer's is classified by the policy. Many insurers erroneously consider it as a mental health issue rather than the progressive, ultimately fatal, neurological disease that it is. These insurers will refuse to pay, citing the clause in the policy that mental health issues are not covered.

I called TravelGuard, and that's what the person said - it would likely be considered a mental issue and thus be disqualified as being one of the exclusions. Of course, she was just trying to interpret it and didn't really know for sure, but any significant chance that it might not qualify is enough for me to not want to take that chance.

And if we went with the "cancel for any reason" coverage, that jacks the insurance up to $457 and only pays out 75% of the $2700pp cruise fare. So in effect we lose over $1100 in that exchange (the remaining 25% + the premium). Not a very good deal. We'd need to be pretty sure she wouldn't be able to go before we'd sign up for that deal. And by then it may be too late to get it (not sure how long we have to get it).

I'll check some other travel insurance plans, like the one from HAL a few people mentioned above).

Thanks everyone!

I called TravelGuard, and that's what the person said - it would likely be considered a mental issue and thus be disqualified as being one of the exclusions. Of course, she was just trying to interpret it and didn't really know for sure, but any significant chance that it might not qualify is enough for me to not want to take that chance.

 

And if we went with the "cancel for any reason" coverage, that jacks the insurance up to $457 and only pays out 75% of the $2700pp cruise fare. So in effect we lose over $1100 in that exchange (the remaining 25% + the premium). Not a very good deal. We'd need to be pretty sure she wouldn't be able to go before we'd sign up for that deal. And by then it may be too late to get it (not sure how long we have to get it).

 

I'll check some other travel insurance plans, like the one from HAL a few people mentioned above).

 

Thanks everyone!

You should check very carefully regarding the HAL Platinum coverage. They will pay for cancellations but I don't think they will cover the single supplement that the remaining passenger might have to pay.

I called TravelGuard, and that's what the person said - it would likely be considered a mental issue and thus be disqualified as being one of the exclusions. Of course, she was just trying to interpret it and didn't really know for sure, but any significant chance that it might not qualify is enough for me to not want to take that chance.

 

And if we went with the "cancel for any reason" coverage, that jacks the insurance up to $457 and only pays out 75% of the $2700pp cruise fare. So in effect we lose over $1100 in that exchange (the remaining 25% + the premium). Not a very good deal. We'd need to be pretty sure she wouldn't be able to go before we'd sign up for that deal. And by then it may be too late to get it (not sure how long we have to get it).

 

I'll check some other travel insurance plans, like the one from HAL a few people mentioned above).

 

Thanks everyone!

"Not a very good deal." -- actually it's a great deal for you. You know in advance, or at least have good reason to believe that it is highly likely, that she won't be able to travel, so you are taking out an insurance policy that pays three quarters of the fare for one of the two people booked in the cabin for only $457. You pay $457 and get three quarters of $2700 -- where else can you get such a high return on your money? You are taking no risk and getting the insurance company to pay the single supplement for the person who will travel for a payment of only $457. Insurance is for unexpected events, not for an event you know will happen or think is very likely to happen so you can get a discount.

"Not a very good deal." -- actually it's a great deal for you. You know in advance, or at least have good reason to believe that it is highly likely, that she won't be able to travel, so you are taking out an insurance policy that pays three quarters of the fare for one of the two people booked in the cabin for only $457. You pay $457 and get three quarters of $2700 -- where else can you get such a high return on your money? You are taking no risk and getting the insurance company to pay the single supplement for the person who will travel for a payment of only $457. Insurance is for unexpected events, not for an event you know will happen or think is very likely to happen so you can get a discount.

It's actually over $1100 if you add the 25% we don't get back as well ($675). So in other words, if she ends up not being able to go, we'd have paid $1132 for that single supplement if we buy insurance, or $2700 if we don't buy insurance. It's 42% of the single supplement.

If we're more than 42% sure she won't be able to go, you're right, it's a better deal to buy the insurance. If less than 42% chance, then a poor deal. It just comes down to how sure we are she won't be able to go, and that's tough to judge without a diagnosis. If they do diagnose it, perhaps there's drugs they'll put her on that will make the trip viable for her. She functioned OK on the Alaska cruise we just completed, but it was a more of a challenge. She was afraid to leave the cabin on her own as she feared she'd forget how to get back. So we always kept track of her. She still enjoyed it all, but she'd forget a lot of the short-term details (like what time we were swinging by to go to dinner, tours, etc). There is a family history (her mother), so she's been expecting to get it for years. She's refused to go get checked for it until now. She finally agreed during this cruise that she would finally get tested for it.

In the mean time, we have some thinking to do about the cruise arrangements. Australia was at the top of her wish list, so we're really hoping to make it work.

I would check into HAL's Platinum coverage since it is not age-related in cost and has a 90% return. I don't know how the single supplement clause works.

One thing to consider, too, is this. Being in an unfamiliar place on a different schedule is very difficult on people with any sort of dementia. This trip is a "bucket list" for your Mother, so I think it is most important for you to continue planning for it. However, if you do go, you will have to watch her carefully. You are talking about a long trip with many changes to her daily routine. It will be a trying experience for all of you. Your family group is to be commended for considering this.

If you do decide to bring your mother, you may be able to hire a 'sitter' from HAL for when you would want/need her to stay on board, e.g. if you want to go on a more strenuous excursion. This should not be new to HAL as they run into this so they should have an answer for you. Wish you all the best as have lived through this with my mom.

With all respect, dbsb, all the insurance we purchase is of the 'unknown'.

None of us plan to total our autos but we have auto insurance in case we have that terrible accident. We certainly don't plan for our house to burn down but we buy insurance in the sad event that could happen.

You are looking for close to a 'promise' you will need to place a claim before you wish to purchase the insurance.

Why not buy the insurance and look at it as promise the Mom will be able to travel and you will all enjoy your trip. I, for one, am delighted when I have insurance and do not need to place a claim but it gives me peace of mind to know if I get ill, my medical bills will be covered.

With all respect, dbsb, all the insurance we purchase is of the 'unknown'.

None of us plan to total our autos but we have auto insurance in case we have that terrible accident. We certainly don't plan for our house to burn down but we buy insurance in the sad event that could happen.

 

You are looking for close to a 'promise' you will need to place a claim before you wish to purchase the insurance.

 

Why not buy the insurance and look at it as promise the Mom will be able to travel and you will all enjoy your trip. I, for one, am delighted when I have insurance and do not need to place a claim but it gives me peace of mind to know if I get ill, my medical bills will be covered.

 

Some like to purchase insurance just for peace of mind, and don't care much about the cost. And that's fine for them. For me, the decision on insurance is more just a financial calculation. And the more information I have the better I can make an informed decision.

I think we just look at it a little differently. Thank you for your input.

Interesting the lack of comments about the ethics of this. It is one thing to buy insurance because there is a chance that one might have an issue that prevents traveling.

It is quite another to purchase insurance knowing that one will almost certainly not be able to travel and where if the knowledge of the condition was disclosed would be considered to be a preexisting condition. Especially since they can cancel without loss and the whole reason to get the insurance company to pay the single supplement for another passenger.

If you think that she could most likely go, that it one thing. If you don't think she should go then you should cancel and figure out some other way to finance the other passenger to go (cheaper room for example, the rest of your party chipping in, etc.). Just to note an inside cabin for the cruises are $1399 or $1499 depending upon exactly which cruise they are talking about during that time, so a single supplement with a change to an inside, would be in the same ball park as the current fare they have now.

HAL insurance doesn't pay single supplement for a reason and those that do would probably not, if they had the correct medical information.

Keep in mind that even if you were not concerned about the single issue, when you are traveling overseas you can encounter severe costs if a medical issue should arise and should probably be considering insurance for that and evacuation coverage, anyway.

If you do decide to bring your mother, you may be able to hire a 'sitter' from HAL for when you would want/need her to stay on board, e.g. if you want to go on a more strenuous excursion. This should not be new to HAL as they run into this so they should have an answer for you. Wish you all the best as have lived through this with my mom.

That's a good suggestion. We may not need that though as both mothers are a bit limited in mobility. We're all 55+ and don't schedule strenuous tours anyway, but if we do choose something with lots of walking in 1 or 2 ports, the 2 moms would keep each other company if they stayed behind. With a group of 8, we can rotate around a little too.

Interesting the lack of comments about the ethics of this. It is one thing to buy insurance because there is a chance that one might have an issue that prevents traveling.

 

It is quite another to purchase insurance knowing that one will almost certainly not be able to travel and where if the knowledge of the condition was disclosed would be considered to be a preexisting condition. Especially since they can cancel without loss and the whole reason to get the insurance company to pay the single supplement for another passenger.

I didn't mean to give the impression that she was "almost certainly not be able to travel". We're still hoping she can, and we fully expected she could when we booked it earlier this month. But after spending the last week with her we're less sure.

We're not doctors, nor has she been tested yet. And even if she is in early onset, medications may improve things.

While I appreciate the general point that you're raising, this isn't a case where we're pretty sure she can't go. Plus, "cancel for any reason" insurance is usually 3x the price for that very reason -- people use it for any reason. I suspect the insurance companies still have limits and controls on those policies too to prevent egregious gaming of the system. I was just trying to figure out what's typically allowed.

That's a good suggestion. We may not need that though as both mothers are a bit limited in mobility. We're all 55+ and don't schedule strenuous tours anyway, but if we do choose something with lots of walking in 1 or 2 ports, the 2 moms would keep each other company if they stayed behind. With a group of 8, we can rotate around a little too.

Speaking from EXPERIENCE, I took my mom on her last cruise before her passing from Alzheimer's on HAL. HAL called me and asked to talk with me to explain that I am TOTALLY responsible for her, there are no 'sitters' or 'caretakers' to assist. They asked if she would perhaps freak out and that they wld have to take her off board in which case I would have to pay for the helicopter or any other expenses.

This was my mom 21st cruise and 5th suffering from Alzheimers. Being her full time caregiver I knew what I was doing. I knocked on the cabin door beside me to explain if they did her some loud cursing not to call security, it was just time for mom's shower (sadly lol). She did use a wheelchair so we had an handicap cabin. I knew before I board that I cannot leave her alone for a second...not even when I took a shower, but I knew at least we would be cruising for the next 10days - something she loved. Nothing more she loved than cruising and casinos.

Just realize you are totally responsible and if your comfortable as I was go for it, its a memory not to be missed!!!

First of all -- you certainly have lots of things to consider --- we have done 8 cruises to date and ALWAYS buy insurance but never through the cruiselines. Why ? We like to arrive a day or two prior to departure and sometimes stay a little longer at the end. Insurance through the cruise line ONLY covers the cruise -- not your travel expenses prior to/and at the end of your trip. In fact, I always have the policies start a day or two prior to us leaving our home. Unfortunately accidents and/or illness happen at any time as prior experience has told us.

I would recommend looking into Access America -- we have used this company numerous times -- had several claims and except for one instance (which was finally resolved to our satisfaction) our claims have always been paid. DH has major health problems - heart, diabetes, walking issues so insurance is a no-brainer for us.

Did you book through a travel agent ?? The company we use recommends Access America and as DH has pre-existing conditions -- we have never had a problem obtaining coverage.

Also. the policies now INCLUDE the "pre-existing condition and cancel for any reason" at no additional cost. At least they did this past Jan/Feb --- be sure to clarify that. I think the purchase within 2 week time frame of making cruise deposits has been changed, too.

Good luck and let us know what you decide. Have you considered placing the older lady in an inside cabin ?? Not my choice but at least she could still enjoy the trip with your family. :(:)

Speaking from EXPERIENCE, I took my mom on her last cruise before her passing from Alzheimer's on HAL. HAL called me and asked to talk with me to explain that I am TOTALLY responsible for her, there are no 'sitters' or 'caretakers' to assist. They asked if she would perhaps freak out and that they wld have to take her off board in which case I would have to pay for the helicopter or any other expenses.

 

This was my mom 21st cruise and 5th suffering from Alzheimers. Being her full time caregiver I knew what I was doing. I knocked on the cabin door beside me to explain if they did her some loud cursing not to call security, it was just time for mom's shower (sadly lol). She did use a wheelchair so we had an handicap cabin. I knew before I board that I cannot leave her alone for a second...not even when I took a shower, but I knew at least we would be cruising for the next 10days - something she loved. Nothing more she loved than cruising and casinos.

 

Just realize you are totally responsible and if your comfortable as I was go for it, its a memory not to be missed!!!

I am still haunted by the memory of the elderly gentleman on a Maasdam transatlantic in the early 1990's who was left to roam the ship by his exhausted woman companion. He had dementia and was very confused in a new, unfamiliar setting with scenery which kept moving! He would sit at tables that were not his, wander around lounges, bumping into people who had glasses with beverages in their hands. There is no way that ONE exhausted companion could keep tabs on him 24/7. He even wandered into cabins that were not his own when cabin doors were ajar. He spilled food all over himself. They were escorted off the ship in Lisbon. I have dealt with a parent's dementia personally. My mother got confused when I took her out to lunch as her dementia got worse. She really needed day-to-day, hour-by-hour consistency in a memory care facility. A ship is not that place.

Speaking from EXPERIENCE, I took my mom on her last cruise before her passing from Alzheimer's on HAL. HAL called me and asked to talk with me to explain that I am TOTALLY responsible for her, there are no 'sitters' or 'caretakers' to assist. They asked if she would perhaps freak out and that they wld have to take her off board in which case I would have to pay for the helicopter or any other expenses.

 

This was my mom 21st cruise and 5th suffering from Alzheimers. Being her full time caregiver I knew what I was doing. I knocked on the cabin door beside me to explain if they did her some loud cursing not to call security, it was just time for mom's shower (sadly lol). She did use a wheelchair so we had an handicap cabin. I knew before I board that I cannot leave her alone for a second...not even when I took a shower, but I knew at least we would be cruising for the next 10days - something she loved. Nothing more she loved than cruising and casinos.

 

Just realize you are totally responsible and if your comfortable as I was go for it, its a memory not to be missed!!!

Thank you for sharing that experience (and sorry to hear about your mom). That's about the way I figured it would be too, as cuiseline staff already has their hands pretty full dealing with 2000+ passengers.

Our mom (actually my partner's mom) isn't anywhere near that bad yet. She's just forgetting little details. Although hard to predict how she'll be in 7 months. I don't know if drugs really help much or not, but we'll be checking that all out in the coming months.