Last day on the Independence - Good, Bad and Strange

they are just making an honest living while behaving this way??

 

You are an idiot for even saying that.

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Triple like. Nothing honest about their actions.

The OP came on this board to relate a very scary situation that happened to his children on Labadee and to caution parents to be extra vigilant when walking thru the vendor area. I have to add my 2 cents in and respond to the poster who seems to feel it's acceptable in Haiti to grab children and shove them into a tent/store. It isn't!!.

Based on what we are reading in this thread, can you say, something 'immediate' was done by the parent....I sure cannot.

In post 16 the OP says they talked to the shore excursions desk onboard. So they didn't just wait until they got home.

Not criticizing what you said - just wanted to point that out as it seems to have gotten lost.

The first time we went to the market area on labadee in 2008 it was lovely. there was haggling, but nothing crazy. when we went back in (i think in 2010 or 2012) it was a zoo. i can hold my own in a market, and have been to plenty, but it was way more aggressive than the usual. since then, if i feel like buying anything, i do it in the enclosed market where prices are set.

OP, glad to hear a mostly positive review of indy, though. we are on her for the first time next feb. :)

In post 16 the OP says they talked to the shore excursions desk onboard. So they didn't just wait until they got home.

 

Not criticizing what you said - just wanted to point that out as it seems to have gotten lost.

 

The first time we went to the market area on labadee in 2008 it was lovely. there was haggling, but nothing crazy. when we went back in (i think in 2010 or 2012) it was a zoo. i can hold my own in a market, and have been to plenty, but it was way more aggressive than the usual. since then, if i feel like buying anything, i do it in the enclosed market where prices are set.

 

OP, glad to hear a mostly positive review of indy, though. we are on her for the first time next feb. :)

And I think this is part of what may make parents let their guard down a bit. If they go into the enclosed market first where things are quite laid back they may feel that the open market around the corner is simply an extention of the same selling/buying activity when, in fact, it couldn't be much more different.

I am not gonna flame you, but why on earth would you think I would make up a story like that? What part sounds fishy to you? My kids were dragged into shops by scam artists working as a team in the poorest country on earth. That seems far fetched to you? When I ran into the first few shops to find them, they were not there and I was surrounded by other villagers jabbering at me to come into their tents and buy something. The shops are two stories and if you have been to Labadee lately you will know there are many of these shops in the village. I popped into several more shops with no luck. Nobody answered when I called out their names. Then when I was truly getting panicked all three suddenly showed up together and the money demands began. I will be writing RCCL when I get home. I have also spoken to the shore excursion desk manager which in charge of Labadee shopping about this.

I'll back off my statement a little. It was probably a knee jerk response. Having been there several times before, I would never have let my kids get that far ahead. Sorry this happened and you shouldn't let it drop.

On the same cruise last week.

Vendors were aggressive, but not any different from last year or previous trips to Labadee. What happened to original posters family is very upsetting, but I think the word "tent" is misleading. The stalls are open stalls. To me tent sounds like a closed door unable to see in type of shop. Also saw plenty of security around the area.

Vintages took my diamond drink coupon on a glass of wine. On my way to dinner and asked for Chardonnay and was told their white wine on the loaded coupon was a Pinot - not that picky and took the Pinot.

Agreed with most of the other points of review. Staff was very pleasant, food was good, ice show excellent. Thought rest of the entertainment was average at best, have seen better on other ships. Missed parades in promenade area.

Didn't have a good experience the first time we stopped in Haiti, and the second time wasn't much better. Found the outside vendors to be down right scary and couldn't get through the area fast enough. Very few places to enjoy the beach area with so many rocky entrances. Oh and the flies on the buffet food was enough to make me skip lunch. We now avoid cruises stopping in Haiti. We don't like anything about it. Parents: WATCH YOUR CHILDREN CLOSELY!!

RE: Vintages- when we were on the Liberty the last time, the sommeleir mentioned that he was on a ship that had turned Vintages into a normal bar- but he worked hard to turn it back into a real wine bar. Mostly by training the staff in wines, and introducing the dinner pairing event. He carried that onto the Liberty with him.

It's too bad that Vintages may be going to a more normal bar. At least keep some of the wines. I will say one thing- the high end wines need to be a lot better- for fun, we tried the Barolo (as I'm a massive fan of that wine), and it's at least 10 years too young. Many of the best wines are way to young. Better off getting some great young wines than ones that have to be aged and very much are not.

RE: Labadee- sorry about your experience- my wife and I stick close to gether, and try not to make eye contact. Kinda sucks to be that way, that's for sure. The other frustrating thing is that they all sell the same thing- so how are you expected to choose between them- and more than that- it's just tourist stuff you find all over the place- we saw a thing we bought in Cozumel. Just a little direction of being nice and different, and they would get business. Especially the guys making art- it's not as if Hatiain art isn't popular- it is, and it's very unique. Be that way. Still- they need to cut the vendors in half- if they are going to just sell the same stuff.

Based on what we are reading in this thread, can you say, something 'immediate' was done by the parent....I sure cannot.

Yes, something 'immediate' was done. The parent rewarded the behavior by giving the vendors money (albeit "much less" than the initial exorbitant amount requested) for the personalized souvenirs. That's why they do things like this; because it works.

On the same cruise last week.

 

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Also saw plenty of security around the area.

 

As there should be. The vendors are always going to be aggressive but perhaps having a lot of visible security around will deter them from doing what happened with OP's family.

Frankly, I don't remember seeing much security around there the last time I was in Labadee, so it's at least possible that RCI has reacted to recent complaints by beefing up security in the area, which is reasonable.

If either of you that were on the ship last week have copies of the compasses, I'd be very grateful for a scan of them. I'm sailing the same itinerary on June 28th and would like to get an idea of the activities and such.

Much obliged

I am the OP and have had time to reflect on the whole incident for a few days now. I have also read the comments on here and agree completely I handled it poorly. I wish I had not given them a dime. I wish I gone straight to security. I wish I would have punched a couple of them in the face to be honest. However, at the time I was trying to get my kids out of a situation that I was not in control of. I saw fear on my two childrens face (and also the face of my sisters child) and I wanted them removed from the situation quickly. Yes, I handled it poorly though looking back. Sometimes when you are in a scary situation you do not think clearly and/or make the best decisions. This was one of those times. I am sure their shakedown exists due to success from it from people long before me. I never did see security in the shopping area, but did see several armed men near the very front of Labadee when we got off the ship and walked down the long dock. I do have an update on speaking with the shore excursion team. The first gal I spoke with was quite nice and was concerned with my story. It was her first week on RCCL and she said she walked through the market and was quite uncomfortable herself. They kept trying to put things on her wrist and take her hand and lead her into the booths. She said she would contact her manager and have him call me. Two days went by and I never heard a thing. I demanded to speak to the manager on my second trip to the desk. He finally showed up and I spoke at length with the head of the shore excursion team about everything. He was from Jamaica which some of you know also have very aggressive vendors in places. He told me he "looked into it" but that he had been told the incident was on Jamaica and not Labadee. He then said that "since you had not booked excursions in Jamaica I had no idea what shopping area you meant". I caught him in a lie here. Part of our family actually did book Dunns River Falls in Jamaica through RCCL and if he had researched it all he would have known that we did book an excursion. So my wife and I feel like he blew the whole thing off and took no action. I honestly think the Jamaica manager saw nothing wrong with what the Labadee vendors did. He grew in Jamaica and being pushy is how people in some countries like to sell things. I understand that. Taking kids away in differnent directions is a different level though and I will not be letting this drop after being pretty much ignored by the shore excursion manager. I will be writing RCCL as soon as I can see the bottom of my desk. Today is the first day back at work and I am buried. I expect little more than a canned response from RCCL, but they need to be aware the some vendors have gone too far in their approach. I will also tell RCCL about the lie I caught the Shore Excursion Manager in and that he never looked into our situation after the first request.

Finally, I do want to say this was a blemish (a scary one but still a blemish) in an otherwise great week. We did not let this ruin our vacation, but still feel it needs to be addressed with RCCL. Yes, I agree I handled this poorly from start to finish. I own that. However, I did what I did and my only goal now is for other parents to not have to go through what we did in Labadee.

Thank you for the review, but most importantly, thank you for the information regarding Labadee. We will be sailing next week and that is one of our stops. I will certainly keep an eye on my daughter (she is 17) but I will stick with her always!

To original poster - perhaps we met at the meet and mingle - it was a small one. Hope you get some answers regarding Labadee. Overall it was a pretty decent cruise.

The reason I remember the security, as well as the ones at the pier, was because half way up the hill in the shopping area there were three male and one female officer stood talking. We commented that one of them could have doubled for a young Michael Jordan! The other three were also very tall, lean and athletic - didn't look like people you would want to out run or get into a hassle with. They talked for a few minutes and then two went down the hill and two went up. So there is security - not just at the pier area.

Again, sorry you had the problem.

If either of you that were on the ship last week have copies of the compasses, I'd be very grateful for a scan of them. I'm sailing the same itinerary on June 28th and would like to get an idea of the activities and such.

 

 

 

Much obliged

So sorry I didn't keep mine. If you have any specific questions would try to remember.

Haiti is the poorest country in the whole american continental shelf. These vendors are trying to make a living the best way they can. Unlike most countries in the New World, there really aren't many opportunities to do something else. You speak of them as if they are a pest. They might be too insistent and high-pressure. But you _can_ be equally high pressure and tell them off. And yes, I know high pressure vendors very well because I've been and actually lived in South and Central American countries. There people are not there to hurt you or your kids, please stop the fear mongering. They want to make an honest living and they see you (and thousands of cruisers) as a good opportunity to do so. The fact they are there can be they are friends of the gatekeepers, or they are on commission, or part of the government deal when RCCL leased that chunk of land.

You CANNOT be serious.

This conduct is outrageous and deserves a fractured jaw, not $30.00.

I fully understand "poor" (been there) and I understand hustle (been there too) but the conduct described is not justified by any rationalization or "poor victim" syndrome.

SHEESH ::smh::

OP-Who is to know how any one of us here would react to the situation on Labadee. All i know is main thing would be relief my children are with me again and throwing these people money to get them away is something probably done in relief with no thought at that moment they did not deserve a thin dime!

Thank god all turned out OK to the fact with your children and still stand by an e-mail to the CEO. I think right now, the responses you are getting from those in charge warrant a MBayley@rccl.com

Some of the crap he gets e-mailed about and even right now pales in comparison to your issue.

Not surprised about Vintages. We liked Vintages because it was very quiet, hence usually empty. The wife is the wine drinker. Up until January, if I wanted a cocktail there, I'd walk over to the pub or the waiter would walk out to the promenade, get a pub waiter's attention and order it from there. This past January I was surprised they had a full bar on Indy. The only thing I find disappointing about Vintages on Freedom Class is they're not equipped for the tapas found on the Oasis Class. I think that's a big draw because Vintages was always busy on Allure.

 

I agree the vendors are very aggressive but how do three young girls get pulled in three different directions into three separate tents long enough to have their names carved into something while you're sprinting from within eye sight? :confused: Yup, I said it. Sounds a little fishy. Flame away.

Okay, we have been to Labadee several times and there is a wooden building where you can buy things and they do not barter or harass you, you pay the price as marked. However, to get to the "tents" you have to walk past that building down a path where the "straw market" is. Both the building and straw market are a LOOOOOOOONNNNNNGGGGG way from the pier (well to me it is because it was so hot) and not really that close to the beach and you get to the beach before the market area, right? I mean you would have to be going there on purpose to get to it unless there is another beach on the other side of the market that we just don't know about :)

Note to self: walk past the straw market next time to see what is on the other side :)

OP-Who is to know how any one of us here would react to the situation on Labadee. All i know is main thing would be relief my children are with me again and throwing these people money to get them away is something probably done in relief with no thought at that moment they did not deserve a thin dime!

Thank god all turned out OK to the fact with your children and still stand by an e-mail to the CEO. I think right now, the responses you are getting from those in charge warrant a MBayley@rccl.com

Some of the crap he gets e-mailed about and even right now pales in comparison to your issue.

I agree wholeheartedly with writing to the CEO. They have a whole team who handles this sort of stuff and are very responsive. This is exactly the thing they want to know about. Safety is first and foremost. At sometime or another all of our kids get away from us. People love to place blame even when they were not there. Let those who's children always acted in the way they wanted to cast the stones. I know my boys would have been hard to keep next to me despite my constant vigilance if they were excited for the beach. This is a lesson for all. Do not let this go.

Okay, we have been to Labadee several times and there is a wooden building where you can buy things and they do not barter or harass you, you pay the price as marked. However, to get to the "tents" you have to walk past that building down a path where the "straw market" is. Both the building and straw market are a LOOOOOOOONNNNNNGGGGG way from the pier (well to me it is because it was so hot) and not really that close to the beach and you get to the beach before the market area, right? I mean you would have to be going there on purpose to get to it unless there is another beach on the other side of the market that we just don't know about :)

 

Note to self: walk past the straw market next time to see what is on the other side :)

You are correct its a long ways away. However, if you get all the way through the straw market there is a beach called Barefoot Beach with no rocks and fine sand. It is less crowded than other beaches and is the one that people suggested to me to visit when on the Labadee forums. To get to this beach though, you either have to go down the main road through the entire straw market or take the path leading up and down a fairly steep hill that clips part of the straw market. Getting to barefoot beach without going through at least some part of the market is unavoidable unless you swim to get there or there is some other route I am unaware of.

Several thoughts on the incident with the children:

This carving-your-name-business isn't new. It was going on when I first visited Mexico in the 1980s. Obviously it's still happening because it works. Once your name is engraved on the item, the tourist feels an obligation to purchase the item.

Similar scams:

The vendor "gives" an item to a child because he or she is so beautiful, etc., etc., etc. and then asks the parent to pay. The right choice is to talk to the children ahead of time about keeping their hands in their pockets and accepting nothing.

The vendor tosses you (or your child) an item, and you catch it automatically. He then tells you the price. When you attempt to hand it back, he says that's not allowed or claims you broke it. The right choice is to let it bounce off your chest and hit the ground.

When you walk by and politely say, "No thank you", the vendor screams out things intended to make you feel ashamed. For example, "Why would you shame me like this?" The right choice is to avoid engaging in this mess and keep walking.

I've seen these -- and similar techniques -- in various parts of the world. Always in poor areas. These people are desperate to make a dollar, and since they only have a few hours to sell at these markets and then all the tourists are gone, some of them will be super-aggressive.

These vendors never should've physically pulled these girls into their shops -- that is WAY over the line. However, you can't control what other people do, so I think the biggest take-away lesson is that you need to work with the girls on being appropriately assertive and refusing to go along with someone. Role-play with them at home how to twist their arm away and scream out something like, "Let go of me, Stranger!" That'll get the attention of nearby people and will hopefully get them some help. You can't keep them from falling into a situation where someone will grab them again, but you can teach them how to make a better choice than to follow meekly along.

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These vendors never should've physically pulled these girls into their shops -- that is WAY over the line. However, you can't control what other people do, so I think the biggest take-away lesson is that you need to work with the girls on being appropriately assertive and refusing to go along with someone. Role-play with them at home how to twist their arm away and scream out something like, "Let go of me, Stranger!" That'll get the attention of nearby people and will hopefully get them some help. You can't keep them from falling into a situation where someone will grab them again, but you can teach them how to make a better choice than to follow meekly along.

Someone puts their hands on my kid and I'll be teaching that person how to make better choices.

I understand how the children got dragged in. We were mobbed by vendors on Labadee a few years ago. We had bought something at one still and had planned on continuing shopping to spread the love around, when we were swarmed and surrounded by several people demanding us to buy something from them because it was their turn now. Um, no.

Suddenly, we were "out" of money, which no one accepted. Finally a security guard came and rescued us. The most telling bit was where he told them that they had already been warned about this type of behaviour. :eek:

Never going back in there.

Someone puts their hands on my kid and I'll be teaching that person how to make better choices.

Lol, this was my thought. My son might just teach them the lesson himself.