Story As To Why You Don't Fly In On Day Of Cruise

OTOH,

 

You can check to see if your A/L has several flights following yours that you could take.

 

They have to get you there.

 

Ira

Well said. The pre and post should be part of your vacation to get the most out of it. Loosing a lot by just flying in and getting on the ship.

I think a lot of people are missing something here. Most city's that we start in are wonderful places to visit and getting off the plane and getting on the ship does not give us a chance to see them. Start in London and spend no time there, Stockholm and the same. Most of the port city's need a day or two to be seen. Even Miami has a lot to offer for a few days before a cruise.

Definitely a good point. It took us a few cruises to figure that out. I've made it back to Lisbon (and loved it) and still need to make it back to Stockholm to see more than just the trip from the port to the airport! However, I have noticed recently that Oceania is doing more overnights in the embarkation/disembarkation cities, so you actually have a good chance of seeing some of those great cities! We still plan to go in early if possible to avoid any headaches due to missing the ship.

I think a lot of people are missing something here. Most city's that we start in are wonderful places to visit and getting off the plane and getting on the ship does not give us a chance to see them. Start in London and spend no time there, Stockholm and the same. Most of the port city's need a day or two to be seen. Even Miami has a lot to offer for a few days before a cruise.

Definitely a good point. It took us a few cruises to figure that out. I've made it back to Lisbon (and loved it) and still need to make it back to Stockholm to see more than just the trip from the port to the airport! However, I have noticed recently that Oceania is doing more overnights in the embarkation/disembarkation cities, so you actually have a good chance of seeing some of those great cities! We still plan to go in early if possible to avoid any headaches due to missing the ship.

The PVSA sounds a little like the law that at first prohibited Cuban-born U.S. citizens from taking the new cruises to or within Cuba on Carnival. There are some unusual laws out there.

Sorry about the double post above. Just ignore my first post.

I want to make sure I understand how the law applies to the case that the original poster mentions. Is the reason Dad was not allowed to get on in Key West because the ship was eventually going to come back to Miami, and thus they would be transporting him from Key West to Miami, which would require payment of a fine? If the ship had been doing, say, a transatlantic cruise in which it stopped in Key West, then foreign ports and everyone disembarked in Europe (or wherever) could they/would they have allowed him to board in Key West?

Sorry about the double post above. Just ignore my first post.

 

I want to make sure I understand how the law applies to the case that the original poster mentions. Is the reason Dad was not allowed to get on in Key West because the ship was eventually going to come back to Miami, and thus they would be transporting him from Key West to Miami, which would require payment of a fine? If the ship had been doing, say, a transatlantic cruise in which it stopped in Key West, then foreign ports and everyone disembarked in Europe (or wherever) could they/would they have allowed him to board in Key West?

This entire thread makes absolutely no sense because the PVSA is a law which pertains only to the carriage of passengers by ship between American cities by American versus foreign flagged shipping.

Although it stopped in Miami and Key West, the cruise in question was leaving the United States on that itinerary, so there was no violation. In fact, missing Miami made a violation less likely, not more likely.

Not knowing any other facts, the mentioning of "suggested exit ports" in Mexico and South America, make this sound more like the story of a gentleman with Passport troubles who was notified in Key West that he might have issues re entering the United States.

This entire thread makes absolutely no sense because the PVSA is a law which pertains only to the carriage of passengers by ship between American cities by American versus foreign flagged shipping.

 

Although it stopped in Miami and Key West, the cruise in question was leaving the United States on that itinerary, so there was no violation. In fact, missing Miami made a violation less likely, not more likely.

 

Not knowing any other facts, the mentioning of "suggested exit ports" in Mexico and South America, make this sound more like the story of a gentleman with Passport troubles who was notified in Key West that he might have issues re entering the United States.

 

Well, I'm certainly no expert, but it looks to me like the PVSA does specifically apply to foreign vessels, and that it was passed a LONG time ago to more or less ensure that there was almost a monopoly on "coastwise" transportation created for U.S. ships. It's a little strange to hold cruise ships and their passengers to it, but this document pretty much makes things clear: https://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/files/documents/pvsa_icp_3.pdf

So in the instance above, I guess the person who was told to go to Key West to embark and then ultimately disembarked in Miami (I assume) would have made the cruise line in violation because no "distant" foreign port was visited between his starting point of KW and his ending point of a different U.S. city. However, if the itinerary had called for a stop in South America, it would have been OK.

Whew! Crazy!

This entire thread makes absolutely no sense because the PVSA is a law which pertains only to the carriage of passengers by ship between American cities by American versus foreign flagged shipping.

 

Although it stopped in Miami and Key West, the cruise in question was leaving the United States on that itinerary, so there was no violation. In fact, missing Miami made a violation less likely, not more likely.

 

Not knowing any other facts, the mentioning of "suggested exit ports" in Mexico and South America, make this sound more like the story of a gentleman with Passport troubles who was notified in Key West that he might have issues re entering the United States.

 

Didn't the cruise start and end in Miami? If so then no, it's correct. I went back and read the first post. The only part I'm not clear on is the itinerary. Here's what you can't do, get on in one US port and get off in a DIFFERENT one without visiting a Distant Foreign Port. I don't think any of the ports on this itinerary were DFPs. If they had got on the ship in Miami and returned to Miami then it would be what is called a closed loop, which is what is required in this situation. Boarding in KW and getting off in Miami is in violation of the PSVA.

Then again I could be totally misunderstanding the whole situation.

Didn't the cruise start and end in Miami? If so then no, it's correct. I went back and read the first post. The only part I'm not clear on is the itinerary. Here's what you can't do, get on in one US port and get off in a DIFFERENT one without visiting a Distant Foreign Port. I don't think any of the ports on this itinerary were DFPs. If they had got on the ship in Miami and returned to Miami then it would be what is called a closed loop, which is what is required in this situation. Boarding in KW and getting off in Miami is in violation of the PSVA.

 

Then again I could be totally misunderstanding the whole situation.

This is not the same itinerary, but a similar one, being offered this year:

If this gentleman got on in Key West and then the ship sailed to Mexico and Honduras, the Distinct Foreign Port segment of the equation would have been satisfied.

It seems unbelievable that if the gentleman paid for round trip Miami, but missed the ship due to delayed flights on sailing day that they denied him boarding in Key West because he would later be disembarking in Miami.

For the uninitiated:

The intent of the PSVA is to prevent ships which do not fly the American flag (Oceania ships are registered in the Marshall Islands for tax purposes) from providing transportation between American Ports. Said ships are required to include a foreign port in their itineraries thus making their voyages "cruises" rather than transportation.

This is not the same itinerary, but a similar one, being offered this year:

 

If this gentleman got on in Key West and then the ship sailed to Mexico and Honduras, the Distinct Foreign Port segment of the equation would have been satisfied.

 

It seems unbelievable that if the gentleman paid for round trip Miami, but missed the ship due to delayed flights on sailing day that they denied him boarding in Key West because he would later be disembarking in Miami.

 

For the uninitiated:

The intent of the PSVA is to prevent ships which do not fly the American flag (Oceania ships are registered in the Marshall Islands for tax purposes) from providing transportation between American Ports. Said ships are required to include a foreign port in their itineraries thus making their voyages "cruises" rather than transportation.

 

Unbelievable or not, this can only be settled by actually reading the law. The document in the link above states that the definition of "distant foreign port" is found in 19 CFR § 4.80a(a)(3). Here it is, but note that you also have to read ¶(2) to see the full definition:

The itinerary shown in the map above only includes Costa Maya, Harvest Cay, and Roatan -- all of which are in Central America and are therefore "Nearby foreign ports" [see ¶2]. That is why you can't get on in Key West and get off in Miami [two different "Coastwise ports" in ¶1] -- there is no "Distant foreign port" on the itinerary.

I can see how that definition of Distinct Foreign Port could invalidate the entire itinerary, although that would throw a wrench into about 3000 other Western Caribbean Cruises that I can think of, but not how it has any bearing on a single passengers embarkation in Key West versus Miami.

After all, he PAID for Round trip Miami, and that should count for something.

For this trip getting on at Key West and off at Miami violates the law for this passenger as no distant foreign port is visited by this ship. I am surprised that Oceania did not pay the fine 300$pp for him, or give him the option of paying it himself. The majority of Caribbean trips from Florida are RT same port, which do not require a distant foreign port stop. It pays not to miss the ship!

We also like to fly in a day early but sometimes it's not possible. Also, weather being as unpredictable as it is, if there's a blizzard the day before, your flight will be canceled and you may not get a new flight for a day or so, whereas the folks flying the day of will get on the ship.

Our weirdest experience was on with another group on a land trip. We couldn't go earlier. There was massive blizzard that shut down Dallas (where we needed to make a connection) for 3 days and 2 days in Chicago as the weather moved east. Flight after flight was cancelled but our 11am flight out of Chicago was the first to go to Dallas for 3 days. We were only about a half hour late because they had trouble starting the truck to pull the plane back from the gate. If we had even had a flight a few hours earlier, it would have been canceled.

So make your plans and hope for the best.

Mary

Didn't the cruise start and end in Miami? If so then no, it's correct. I went back and read the first post. The only part I'm not clear on is the itinerary. Here's what you can't do, get on in one US port and get off in a DIFFERENT one without visiting a Distant Foreign Port. I don't think any of the ports on this itinerary were DFPs. If they had got on the ship in Miami and returned to Miami then it would be what is called a closed loop, which is what is required in this situation. Boarding in KW and getting off in Miami is in violation of the PSVA.

You are correct.

Per the PVSA:

"A “nearby foreign port” is defined as "any port in North America, Central America, the Bermuda Islands, or the West Indies (including the Bahama Islands, but not including the Leeward Islands of the Netherlands Antilles, i.e., Aruba, Bonaire, and Curacao)." 19 CFR § 4.80a(a)(2)."

And regarding Key West or other non-distant ports (embarking and disembarking are treated the same), per the PVSA:

"It is important to note that a cruise itinerary may be compliant with the PVSA, but a passenger that disembarks at a port other than those designated as part of a compliant itinerary may still cause the vessel/carrier to violate the PVSA depending on where the passenger embarked and disembarked. For example, a passenger that embarks in Seattle, Washington on a round trip itinerary that includes Alaska and disembarks early in Juno, Alaska will cause the vessel/carrier to violate the PVSA, regardless of the reason for the early departure from the cruise ship."

So if you're a "what if" and "be prepared" pre-planning person like me, you might want to think about this:

If I can, I'm going to arrive a day or two early to my embarkation point. This is particularly true for attractive cities I haven't yet visited, and particularly true for routes in which I might experience quite a bit of jetlag. It's also particularly true for cruises that start and end in a U.S. city without visiting a distant foreign port such as one in South America (yes, South - not Central America), or other distant foreign port like Aruba. (The Homeland Security link above has more details).

If I can't go in early, my cruise is one that fits the criteria above, and I'm arranging or controlling my own transportation, I'll think about the following: are flights or trains available after the flight I'm considering if I miss my flight or it's canceled? With them, would it be possible to embark the ship with (as required) an hour or two to spare? If nothing's available, where would I have to go (outside the U.S.) to board the ship and what would the cost be to fly on short notice?

In close to 20 ocean and river cruises, I've never missed embarkation, but if it looks like I might, I'll definitely call the cruise line and make sure my plans jive with their plans (allow or deny boarding at a particular port). I'll have a link to the PVSA requirements, and if I would be causing a violation, I'd offer to pay the fine if that would help me get on board.

Thanks for the discussion; I finally learned more about those "closed loop" and "PVSA" terms I had read about.