GeezerCouple

Yes! The old formatting is back! To quote from Lewis Carroll's "Jabberwocky": "O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!” [We] chortled in [our] joy" To the Mods: Many thanks for listening to the opinions. A suggestion for next time: Perhaps give us a heads' up! And also maybe start a new CC section for us to try it, so it (whatever "it" it is 🙂 ) doesn't interrupt ongoing discussions? Or perhaps a true pilot test. I'm sure you can find some CC members who are likely to enjoy something new and some members who are, er, let's call them [us!? 😉 ] more like traditionalists at heart or maybe just old-fashioned... but also include some who might tend to focus on some of the intended/unintended consequences. GC

BridgeMates brings up something that could be VERY important if it's a big medical bill, and this is regardless of whether it's from the ship's medical center or a hospital in a foreign country. Many travel insurance policies are what's known as "secondary". That means that one must *first* submit to any other possible insurers (e.g., Medicare, one's own employer-based medical insurance, etc.). Then the "secondary" insurer will pay whatever the other insurer(s) did *not* pay. The way to avoid this is to get travel insurance that is "primary". That means that it will pay "first", and no denials from other insurers are needed, even if they would have paid/paid first. (Or one could still only send to the travel insurer whatever other insurance didn't pay.... but... why!?) Some travel insurance policies are automatically "primary". For those that default to "secondary", one can sometimes pay a bit extra (not necessarily much at all) and have that same policy become primary. (This is what we do, and it's not at all expensive, but one needs to think about this and remember, or have a travel insurance agent/broker remind one, and make sure it's primary coverage.) Anyway, this could make a major difference IF it's a very $$$$ expense, given that with travel insurance, one must usually pay the entire bill out of pocket, and then get reimbursed later. This is when one probably would NOT want to have "secondary" coverage and thus need to wait weeks or months (!) for the claim submission to another insurer simply to get the *denial*... and then finally submit the claim to the travel insurer. And then, some travel insurers pay quickly (ours does), and... some don't... Note that some travel insurers can/will make arrangements with the medical provider to guarantee payment or to actually wire some (or all) of the charges so that the traveler/patient does *not* need to fork out the money if it's a very expensive bill. There was one hospital ER billing office (obviously in a very "touristy" area 😉 ) that had a sign on the wall that said something like: "We only accept travel insurance guarantees from the following insurance companies..." and there was a list of several of the major insurers. Possibly the hospital would try to work with other insurers for guarantees, or perhaps manage to get the money wired. This is something to think about given that in non-USA hospitals, there is no requirement that they provide you with initial emergency care without regard to ability to pay. Some hospitals will require a very large up front payment, sometimes before even *starting* to treat you. And other overseas hospitals in certain countries won't charge you a cent for whatever treatment you need! Anyway, we travel with several charge cards with quite a large combined credit limit, just in case. GC

Welcome to CruiseCritic! What a nice trip you have planned. But "all things for all people" is going to be tricky. Could you help us to help you by giving the ages (and numbers) of the younger members? Meanwhile, please take a look at the CC subsection on "Family Cruises": https://boards.cruisecritic.com/forum/28-family-cruises/ This will be a good place to ask about "babysitting". That's not necessarily available on all cruises, but last I knew (that was pre-Covid, so IF things have changed, I don't know) there were at least *some* ships that offered some "babysitting". Otherwise, there are more ships that at least have official "clubs/activities" for children, so that would be worth looking into as well. And what is your approximate price point/range? The ships that have serious activities for children probably aren't the best ships for "peace and ease for the old folks". However, some of those ships may have somewhat more private areas that tend to be quieter. But those areas are also more expensive. For those with limited mobility, keep in mind the ports of call. By "limited mobility", do you mean "slow walking, needing frequent rest"? Or walker/scooter? Or wheelchair? There are two ways to get to "land". One is by docking, and that will be accessible for all. The other way is by "tendering", which means taking a small boat from the ship to the shore. That "small boat" can vary a lot; it could be like one of the ships own lifeboats or it could be something a bit larger (or perhaps even smaller?). In many cases, when tendering, it will be very difficult or even impossible for someone in a wheelchair or using a scooter to get off the ship there, and it may be difficult for someone who uses a walker or rollator, too. If there are mobility limitations like that, then you might consider looking for cruises with few or no "tender ports". You might also want to study the "deck plans" of some ships you are considering, keeping in mind how "close together" you think everyone might want to be. You could get several (many? how many will there be in your family?) cabins or suites right near each other. Or perhaps you'd prefer to have everyone a bit more spread out...? One thing we've done when traveling with kids and grands is we get a nice suite, with plenty of space. The kids and grands may be in a much less expensive cabin, maybe without a balcony, but then they spend a lot of time with us. their cabin is really only for sleeping/napping, so "tighter quarters" isn't a problem. Note that IF the larger cabins/suites are in a more private area (not all ships have something like this), there may be restricted entry. I mention this in terms of the "peacefulness" issue, although that's never *guaranteed*! In this case, I'd double check to make sure that others in your family would have access to *your* accommodation, although they may well not have access to the more private areas such as lounge areas, extra pool, or such. And especially if you will be sailing during the Christmas/New Year's holiday time, things can get a bit crowded, as there are likely to be more children (ditto during any school vacation time), and that can make things... uh... less peaceful, at least in many areas of the ship. Enjoy the planning, and then enjoy the cruise! 🙂 GC

Tigerlily75... We absolutely loved the Lincoln Center chamber music. We've only had the one HAL trip, and it was to your part of the world, from NZ to Sydney. 🙂 In fact, in Melbourne, DH spent a few hours with a friend from decades ago, someone who was originally from the USA, but she and her husband had moved to Australia many years ago. She was since widowed, so it was nice for her to see an old friend from home, etc. And now they chat via Zoom every few months. It was nice for them to get re-acquainted again! Now, about Lincoln Center, we had "just discovered" HAL, and very importantly, Lincoln Center, and we *love* classical music. I don't know if "our" chamber group was unusually good or if they all tended to be, but we had decided: "This is for us!!!" .... and then... and then... we find out Lincoln Center is about to bite the dust. 😡 If you happen upon any "replacement classical music", would you mind posting here about it and let us know how it was? Or if anyone else has determined IF there really was some sort of replacement? We went to *every* performance of the true "classical" music, which was (I think I'm remembering correctly) in the afternoon. There was a second performance later, but that wasn't quite the same. The venue (on Noordam) was MOBBED. So each day with a performance, I'd show up **very** early, book in hand, and get two prime seats. For us, *viewing* the performers makes a huge difference, and in that venue, one could be quite up close and personal. Then DH would join me before the performance. Did I mention that we LOVED it? 😉 We haven't sailed since the "before times", so I haven't even browsed the itineraries/listings... so I have no idea if there really is any nice classical music nowadays. Anyway, enjoy your cruise. It sounds like a fascinating itinerary! GC

Hmmm. On at least two other cruise lines, when there was an increase in gratuities, it was made clear that IF one pre-paid them by <date>, then the old/lower rate would be honored for the sailing. But if one waited to pay after that date, either by waiting until the last minute or by pre-paying but at a later date, then the new gratuity rate would be in effect. There was a lot of chatter about hurrying to pre-pay the gratuities before *that* date. GC

Our experience is from just barely "pre-Covid" (late Nov to mid Dec, 2019), and many things have changed since then, everywhere. DH was diagnosed very late in life with full celiac disease (*not* just a prefer gluten free, etc.), so it's been a constant learning experience for us for just under 10 years. First, *definitely* contact the Special Needs section of HAL (or *any* place you are going that serves food... hotels, restaurants, etc.). Given them advance notice so that IF there are any changes necessary, they'll have the time. For a large facility like a major cruise ship, "gluten free" is frequent enough these days that they will already have appropriate foods. The trick is to make sure that "appropriate foods" get to *you*! In addition to advance notice, we ALWAYS announce the "medical need for gluten free" when we arrive someplace. If it's a hotel or cruise ship, that means notifying the cruise line in advance AND then once on the ship, finding the appropriate person. On some ships, there will be a designated contact person to discuss your dietary needs from the start. Depending upon the type of need, one may need to request meals a day in advance, if special preparation is required. Then, when being seated at a restaurant (at land or sea), we ALWAYS announce/remind them of the "medical need for gluten free". Then, when someone from the waitstaff comes to take the order, we *repeat* this! Then we order. And EVERY TIME something is served, we ask, "This is GLUTEN FREE, correct?" and we make sure that they are paying attention and not just nodding a polite "yes" without quite noticing. We also try to find good waitstaff, even though we dislike assigned times/seating for meals. So if we find someone(s) good, we'll make a note of their name and location, and then when we arrive at the check in desk, we'll ask if we can be seated at a table with <name>. But we still ALWAYS repeat the "GF" statement when ordering AND when being served. We found that HAL (this was Noordam, in NZ/Australia) had a good selection of GF food available, including breads and rolls. ONE TIME, the wrong basket of bread/rolls was brought, so it was a good thing we asked and double checked *each* time. It was promptly snatched back and the proper basket brought. That didn't happen again with that group of servers... In DH's case, fortunately, he won't get seriously ill if he happens to eat something. He'll have some damage, but it wouldn't be catastrophic. Some allergies are much more serious in that the consequences are much more severe, and at times very quick. We are incredibly careful now, but we'd only need to be a bit "more careful" otherwise. Also: We, too, always travel with some GF snacks, such as snack bars. That way, he *always* has "something else" to eat if some food prep site isn't properly prepared. Some years ago, having/traveling with celiac disease was probably much more difficult. These days, with some high visibility adverse outcomes for a variety of food allergies, the dietary/nutrition area takes this all more seriously and is also generally better prepared. Still, the responsibility is on the *person* with the allergy to double check. There's just no way around that! By the way, before we went to Italy for the first time after DH's diagnosis, we were pretty discouraged, because of the great pasta. We also figured it might be difficult to avoid "pasta". Surprise: ALL of the restaurants had lots of choices for GF pastas! 🙂 However, in some cases, the menu mentioned there might be a bit of a longer wait, but there was indeed always GF pasta, and it was *very* good! (I think it's required nowadays.) GC

I agree with klfrodo (again! 😉 ) and figured you weren't from the USA (it would help to state what country you *are* in someone knowledgeable from that country could chime in for you. [Oops posted in error too fast!] Might a possible fix be to have your mother complete her own insurance form? Could it be sent in separately, for her privacy? GC

GOOD! It's Friday.... I'm waiting for this to be "over"! Better hurry if it's to be over "before the weekend", but that would be such a relief. If for no other reason, the SCRAMBLING of the posts should be the reason to end this. If replies don't *quote* the previous comment, then the reply itself might have no meaning. For example, the "Don't worry" above. Just what was it that I or anyone might be "worrying about" anyway? (I admit, this "loss of logic is less serious right here. But if JRG had written instead something like, "Your post #X <blah, blah, blah - where the "blahs" are "real content">"... except the "real content won't make sense because no one can find *that* post #X, because all the posts have been scrambled.) I'm hoping for a happy and more peaceful *weekend*. Cheers! 🙂 ETA: Also, it's now virtually impossible to know what the "unread" posts are, or where that nice "line" was showing one had read "to this point" previously. Oh, how useful that was, in retrospect. Now? MANY new posts will be totally overlooked, because they are now scattered about, and not at the "end" where they used to be... where the thread automatically took someone. That was nice. GC

Ditto! And to the Mods: Guess what.... I *did* just "vote"! I "liked" cruisemom42's post above. AND when I did that, I did NOT scramble the order of the posts! 🙂 As an aside, would someone PLEASE explain why the page numbers now appear BELOW the First Post on each subsequent page (not the first)? It took me too long (my bad!!) to realize the page number hadn't just vanished, but were in hiding after the first post. But whyyyyy? OKAY IT IS FRIDAY. Mods, *PLEASE* end this. When the posts get SCRAMBLED, the entire thread logic vanishes. Thank you. GC (both of us)

You REALLY think that what one person thinks is "the best answer" about "good scenery" is going to be the "best answer" for everyone else? ... that YOUR "best scenery" should be decided as THE best scenery? ... or "my" best scenery? I have NO thoughts whatsoever that what I think is "the BEST scenery" will be the best for others. All I could ever imagine - or claim - is something like, "Here is some scenery that I/we think is spectacular, so perhaps consider traveling here..." To have MY "best" scenery "upvoted" (which is clearly oh so different from "voted"... how?) as THE BEST SCENERY FOR ALL? Really!?? GC

I would disagree with this. Having two connecting cabins should be an excellent way to have space for a family with 2 adults and 3 children. (This isn't more expensive than 2 cabins without that interior connecting door.) Just keep the door between them open if you wish. And perhaps bring a bell or such to put on the inside of the exit door to the children's room (the one out to the hallway), so you'll hear if they try to open it. [I did this when taking a couple of very young children backpacking. I tied a bell to the zipper on the front and back of their little pup tent, which was right next to our (the parents') pup tent. One problem we had that you wouldn't have is that many times when one of the little ones just turned over, a bell announced each move...] If you get ocean view (not balcony) cabins or even interior cabins, that would be the least expensive. Just make SURE that you have "interior CONNECTING cabins", and not just "adjacent" cabins. There are plenty of cabins that are "next to each other" but don't have an interior connecting door. (Double check the deck plan when you get the cabin numbers to make sure the interior door is indicated. Better yet, get the deck plan, and either request your cabins, or have the deck plan open when the agent tells you the cabin numbers, and say yes or NO at that time to make sure you get the right types.) You'll probably need to list the occupants of each cabin with one of the adults. However, a good travel agent may be able to have it listed the way you'll use it. But that doesn't matter; the cruise ship doesn't do bed checks. 🙂 Having the second cabin would also allow you to have the lights out for the children, while your lights are on so that you could read. You'll also have two bathrooms that way. Enjoy! GC

Why are the "page numbers" (e.g., if you want to go to a different page) now located BELOW the first post, and ABOVE the *second* post? For too long, I thought there were no longer any links to all of the pages if one wanted to jump back and forth. GC

Here is THE problem, or one of them... Since when is there a single "THE CORRECT ANSWER"? Okay, MY preference about meal times or whatever is THE CORRECT ONE! 🎉 Nice! 🎉 GC

Sounds just great. Um, SOUNDS great, but... ... how do we now figure out which post is the "post #4" that you were referring to? Are the CC powers REALLY going to mess this up through the end of the week? That pretty much makes any entries through that time useless. I just LOVE the idea of someone writing something like, "I agree! That's just what we do, and I *strongly* recommend it!" .... except... how would we know, with the New Improved [***NOT***] formatting? I'm sure this is an especially realistic nightmare. Surely NO ONE could think that "Reddit" is a useful model for CruiseCritic. Most of Reddit isn't useful for much of anything. But what do I know? I've never posted on Reddit, and only "find it" sometimes when I'm using Google to do a search... and I do NOT look to any of the "Reddits" as a "source of information", to put it mildly. About that "pre-testing" I asked about up front/at the top... unless that's now at the bottom?? 😡 I'm sure I'm not alone in not even understanding what "upvoting" is. How does that differ from "voting"? Oh, I got it: IT SORTS THE POSTS TO *ELIMINATE* ANY LOGIC to the stream of posts! Well done! 😱 (*not*) Sigh. GC

Yes, PLEASE return to the original format. You've lost SO much information that the original formatting had, and that we all relied upon. (Did you pre-test this very much? My guess, as someone who spent a career in research that in part included this specifically... is "no" (or at least not enough, or with a good technique including sampling...) It was FINE before. Better than "fine". It was GREAT, as measured by the phenomenal amount of activity that CruiseCritic has had! 🙂 Thanks!

In general, we agree about any "deposit policy" a cruiseline wishes to implement, as long as it is clearly stated. And by this, I do *not* mean "buried in the fine print" *IF* the changes are material. And in the hypothetical example above, when Portugal was removed from a "France, Spain, and Portugal" cruise, I would have a *LOT* of trouble if that cruise had been named from the start something "Portugal Ports and Nearby", or something like that. The specificity of the name of the cruise is intended to inform. (Otherwise, just call them "Cruise X" and "Cruise A" or such - only partly joking here.) And IF the change makes the cruise NOT match the name of the cruise, then... drop the restriction on deposit refunds. This is for "well in advance" changes. Obviously, if there are some changes, such as suddenly "Portugal Ports and Nearby" is affected by a civil war or major epidemic or whatever all across Portugal as the cruise date draws near, that would be different. (Yes, there is a *lot* of subjectivity in the previous sentence, and that's clearly a problem. But sometimes it's a lot more clear than other times.) This also brings up the issue of 3rd party travel insurance with CFAR (Cancel For Any Reason). Many of those types of policies will give 75% *cash* back with notification at least 2 days prior to departure. It's not 100%, but it sure would take away the sting. Also, a cruiseline could gain tremendous loyalty in situations like these by allowing refunds or to apply the deposit to another cruise without penalty. That is to be compared with the outrage triggered when Oceania offered some sort of refund or credit AND THEN CANCELLED THAT OFFER WITHOUT NOTICE. No, we were not personally affected by any of that. However, it *definitely* caught our attention, and made us think... "Gee, how WOULD we feel if some stunt like that was pulled on us by this company....!" 😡 And how would it make us feel? Exceedingly angry, angry enough not to want to risk doing business with a company that cannot be trusted to honor offers they themselves made. <end rant> I've really never heard of such a thing before. This reminds me of a particularly apt billboard I saw many years ago - and never forgot: "There is only one thing customers remember more than good service. Bad service." GC

Would you please list your ports of call? They aren't always identical for all of the Sydney/Auckland cruises. Then we'll know if we had something special where you'll be. Are you only interested in HAL sponsored tours, or also independent/private tours? GC

I agree that this cancellation is one of the more difficult ones. "Antarctica" is in the name of the cruise. It's not just one of several ports of call. However, on the bigger issue of "changing itineraries", I do think it would be very helpful, and perhaps (maybe not...) avoid a lot of disappointment (and maybe vitriol?) if cruise lines didn't bury the "we reserve the right to change the itinerary...", etc., and displayed that more prominently. Although it's not always the case, for this thread/complaint, the OP is new (or newly posting on CC, anyway). OTOH, they were clearly familiar with complaints by others about just this issue, so they aren't newbies to this issue. There are some things "in the fine print" that really shouldn't be (in our personal opinions, of course 😉 ). Of course, one *should* read the fine print carefully, for cruises, insurance, car rentals, etc. As for Oceania (or other cruise lines), when it is such a *fundamental* change to the itinerary, if it wasn't a last minute unavoidable change, and especially if it's in the distant future, perhaps be more flexible on "non-refundables"...? My biggest complaint about this is when some newbie, who is already swamped with assorted lists of "things to worry about" gets really blindsided by something significant. No, there's no way to avoid this for every "rule", but some are more critical than others. GC

It looks like you are taking a cruise very similar to our last one. We also waited out the "plague" (we're older, more at risk, etc.). Anyway, it was our first HAL cruise. We were also on the Noordam in Dec, 2019, Auckland to Sydney, and we LOVED it. What is your timing like in terms of when you plan to arrive in NZ and when you actually sail? We always allow extra time in case of flight delays, etc., and especially so when it's a distant port *and* with connections. The Boeing Max situation would make us especially cautious with scheduling. That is, how many flights are there from LAX to NZ each day? It's not like changing a flight early in the day, when there are 3 others later in the day. And not booking directly through the airline introduces another complication. We always make our own air reservations, and for any overseas flights, we always use awards. We always arrive well in advance, leaving us a nice buffer IF needed, plua giving us time to recover from jetlag if necessary, before boarding the ship. We also often spend a few extra days before and after the cruise, if it's a port we've never been to yet. Is it too late to change air reservations? Perhaps at least add an extra day prior to the cruise if you haven't already? That was one of our favorite cruises. We book private excursions, and we gave ourselves several wonderful opportunities with those wonderfully different animals in the area. Enjoy! GC

Several policies allow this, so double check that the coverage *you* get does include this feature. One must start the coverage/pay the premium for the deposit within 10-20 days of making the first payment (it varies by state of residence). Then, as additional non-refundable costs are paid, within that same time interval, up the coverage accordingly. GC

Definitely this ^^ if there is a deadline looming with them, too. Also, at this point, you have NOT been paid by any other insurer, and you can all-too-appropriately state that you aren't sure anything will be recovered from your primary insurer. Then you've started the clock on time! What a mess (understatement! (Note: I still can't quite follow it all, so IF you are writing a summary for someone else, you might try to stick with less elaborate bullet points. Go through this complete thread for where some of us have either asked for more details, or, especially, misunderstood something. You can always explain more if asked, but that might help with the initial overview of what is a real nightmare!) GC

On at least one cruise line, the Butlers are *not* included in the "gratuities" that are billed automatically. So double check where *you* are sailing before assuming they are included and already being "tipped" that way. GC

And just to double check, because you used an third party travel insurer (which one? giving us more info could help a lot...) are you sure they are secondary and not primary? Also, perhaps what is happening could be used for a "secondary" claim? (perhaps the insurers could fight it out!? wishful thinking, I know!) And who sold you that policy? They may be able to help? Just thinking of possibilities...! GC

Unfortunately, we have had to make several travel insurance claims, and ALL were paid promptly without any nonsense. (I've described some of this in even more detail elsewhere on CC a few times.) These were for totally cancelled trips, including the very first insured trip (!). They were for major trip interruptions, such as landing in hospital in the middle of a trip, thus derailing much of the remaining plans. One was for much less, when a flight home from Barbados was... cancelled while we were all at the airport waiting to board... a flight that was not going to arrive. (Grrr.) In that latter case, we got written confirmation from an airline employee about the [finally!] cancellation, and took a taxi back to our very nice resort. According to plenty of grumblings we heard, most of the others had to wait til the wee hours for the airline to find lodging (it was almost Christmas, so ... not much available), and apparently it was, er, "less than satisfactory". Each time, once we submitted all of the required documentation, we had a check within about 2 weeks, with one exception. That was when our non-weather-related claim happened to coincide with two major hurricanes... which had led to a real flurry of claims. We didn't understand the delay, so we called our travel insurance broker, who explained what was going on. He then made a call to our insurer, and within about another week, we had our check. We have purchased our travel insurance through www.TripInsuranceStore.com - and we've gotten policies through Travel Insured. BTW, most of the complaints we've read about travel insurance seem to involve at least one of: 1) The "event" not being a covered event from the start. Sometimes the traveler didn't understand the terms of the coverage. 2) The traveler taking offense at being required to document the claimed loss, such as with receipts. And for claims that are based upon medical events, this usually requires a physician's signed form, or access to actual medical records. [HIPAA does not apply, because the terms of the coverage included the right to get such records if necessary to process a claim. If you don't want to have to share any medical records, don't get coverage that would be based upon medical events.] 3) Similar to #2 above, an insurer needs to get access to *previous* medical records, because the insured had coverage that *excluded* any "pre-existing conditions". These are defined very specifically, and quite differently from what we usually think of in everyday life. The insurer would need to determine that the claim was *not* related to anything pre-existing within the previously defined prior times. We *always* get coverage that does NOT exclude pre-existing condtions or claims related to such. We also get "Cancel For Any Reason" (CFAR) coverage, which is as it states, but only replaces 75% of the loss. This allows us to simply "change our mind", such as if we notice that very bad weather may be heading towards our destination, or we are "worried" about a very elderly relative who isn't so sick (yet!) that a physician would say... "Don't leave just now...!" Of all of our claims, we've actually never used the CFAR coverage, which does cost extra. But it has given us considerable peace of mind on many occasions. ALWAYS read the full terms and conditions of any policy you are considering. Also, it definitely helps to work with an agent or broker. You can tell them about any worries (e.g., sick relative or your own recent medical treatment...) *and* they can ask you questions that would help them determing the most appropriate coverage for *your* situation. And... they can (or *should*!) help with claims if you want help. And ALWAYS get receipts. The only minimal part of one claim that was not paid was for the TIP to a taxi driver. The taxi fares were paid, but not the *tip*... because we didn't have a receipt for that. And that was definitely way too small an amount to fuss over (less than $10 total). But the insurer examined the claim and all the documentation such that they were able to make that determination! GC

This isn't any help now for you, but we did encounter a much lesser snafu. And we now ALWAYS get travel insurance that is "primary", meaning no other insurer needs to deny any claim first. Huge difference! GC