GeezerCouple

I would disagree with this. Having two connecting cabins should be an excellent way to have space for a family with 2 adults and 3 children. (This isn't more expensive than 2 cabins without that interior connecting door.) Just keep the door between them open if you wish. And perhaps bring a bell or such to put on the inside of the exit door to the children's room (the one out to the hallway), so you'll hear if they try to open it. [I did this when taking a couple of very young children backpacking. I tied a bell to the zipper on the front and back of their little pup tent, which was right next to our (the parents') pup tent. One problem we had that you wouldn't have is that many times when one of the little ones just turned over, a bell announced each move...] If you get ocean view (not balcony) cabins or even interior cabins, that would be the least expensive. Just make SURE that you have "interior CONNECTING cabins", and not just "adjacent" cabins. There are plenty of cabins that are "next to each other" but don't have an interior connecting door. (Double check the deck plan when you get the cabin numbers to make sure the interior door is indicated. Better yet, get the deck plan, and either request your cabins, or have the deck plan open when the agent tells you the cabin numbers, and say yes or NO at that time to make sure you get the right types.) You'll probably need to list the occupants of each cabin with one of the adults. However, a good travel agent may be able to have it listed the way you'll use it. But that doesn't matter; the cruise ship doesn't do bed checks. 🙂 Having the second cabin would also allow you to have the lights out for the children, while your lights are on so that you could read. You'll also have two bathrooms that way. Enjoy! GC

Why are the "page numbers" (e.g., if you want to go to a different page) now located BELOW the first post, and ABOVE the *second* post? For too long, I thought there were no longer any links to all of the pages if one wanted to jump back and forth. GC

Here is THE problem, or one of them... Since when is there a single "THE CORRECT ANSWER"? Okay, MY preference about meal times or whatever is THE CORRECT ONE! 🎉 Nice! 🎉 GC

Sounds just great. Um, SOUNDS great, but... ... how do we now figure out which post is the "post #4" that you were referring to? Are the CC powers REALLY going to mess this up through the end of the week? That pretty much makes any entries through that time useless. I just LOVE the idea of someone writing something like, "I agree! That's just what we do, and I *strongly* recommend it!" .... except... how would we know, with the New Improved [***NOT***] formatting? I'm sure this is an especially realistic nightmare. Surely NO ONE could think that "Reddit" is a useful model for CruiseCritic. Most of Reddit isn't useful for much of anything. But what do I know? I've never posted on Reddit, and only "find it" sometimes when I'm using Google to do a search... and I do NOT look to any of the "Reddits" as a "source of information", to put it mildly. About that "pre-testing" I asked about up front/at the top... unless that's now at the bottom?? 😡 I'm sure I'm not alone in not even understanding what "upvoting" is. How does that differ from "voting"? Oh, I got it: IT SORTS THE POSTS TO *ELIMINATE* ANY LOGIC to the stream of posts! Well done! 😱 (*not*) Sigh. GC

Yes, PLEASE return to the original format. You've lost SO much information that the original formatting had, and that we all relied upon. (Did you pre-test this very much? My guess, as someone who spent a career in research that in part included this specifically... is "no" (or at least not enough, or with a good technique including sampling...) It was FINE before. Better than "fine". It was GREAT, as measured by the phenomenal amount of activity that CruiseCritic has had! 🙂 Thanks!

In general, we agree about any "deposit policy" a cruiseline wishes to implement, as long as it is clearly stated. And by this, I do *not* mean "buried in the fine print" *IF* the changes are material. And in the hypothetical example above, when Portugal was removed from a "France, Spain, and Portugal" cruise, I would have a *LOT* of trouble if that cruise had been named from the start something "Portugal Ports and Nearby", or something like that. The specificity of the name of the cruise is intended to inform. (Otherwise, just call them "Cruise X" and "Cruise A" or such - only partly joking here.) And IF the change makes the cruise NOT match the name of the cruise, then... drop the restriction on deposit refunds. This is for "well in advance" changes. Obviously, if there are some changes, such as suddenly "Portugal Ports and Nearby" is affected by a civil war or major epidemic or whatever all across Portugal as the cruise date draws near, that would be different. (Yes, there is a *lot* of subjectivity in the previous sentence, and that's clearly a problem. But sometimes it's a lot more clear than other times.) This also brings up the issue of 3rd party travel insurance with CFAR (Cancel For Any Reason). Many of those types of policies will give 75% *cash* back with notification at least 2 days prior to departure. It's not 100%, but it sure would take away the sting. Also, a cruiseline could gain tremendous loyalty in situations like these by allowing refunds or to apply the deposit to another cruise without penalty. That is to be compared with the outrage triggered when Oceania offered some sort of refund or credit AND THEN CANCELLED THAT OFFER WITHOUT NOTICE. No, we were not personally affected by any of that. However, it *definitely* caught our attention, and made us think... "Gee, how WOULD we feel if some stunt like that was pulled on us by this company....!" 😡 And how would it make us feel? Exceedingly angry, angry enough not to want to risk doing business with a company that cannot be trusted to honor offers they themselves made. <end rant> I've really never heard of such a thing before. This reminds me of a particularly apt billboard I saw many years ago - and never forgot: "There is only one thing customers remember more than good service. Bad service." GC

Would you please list your ports of call? They aren't always identical for all of the Sydney/Auckland cruises. Then we'll know if we had something special where you'll be. Are you only interested in HAL sponsored tours, or also independent/private tours? GC

I agree that this cancellation is one of the more difficult ones. "Antarctica" is in the name of the cruise. It's not just one of several ports of call. However, on the bigger issue of "changing itineraries", I do think it would be very helpful, and perhaps (maybe not...) avoid a lot of disappointment (and maybe vitriol?) if cruise lines didn't bury the "we reserve the right to change the itinerary...", etc., and displayed that more prominently. Although it's not always the case, for this thread/complaint, the OP is new (or newly posting on CC, anyway). OTOH, they were clearly familiar with complaints by others about just this issue, so they aren't newbies to this issue. There are some things "in the fine print" that really shouldn't be (in our personal opinions, of course 😉 ). Of course, one *should* read the fine print carefully, for cruises, insurance, car rentals, etc. As for Oceania (or other cruise lines), when it is such a *fundamental* change to the itinerary, if it wasn't a last minute unavoidable change, and especially if it's in the distant future, perhaps be more flexible on "non-refundables"...? My biggest complaint about this is when some newbie, who is already swamped with assorted lists of "things to worry about" gets really blindsided by something significant. No, there's no way to avoid this for every "rule", but some are more critical than others. GC

It looks like you are taking a cruise very similar to our last one. We also waited out the "plague" (we're older, more at risk, etc.). Anyway, it was our first HAL cruise. We were also on the Noordam in Dec, 2019, Auckland to Sydney, and we LOVED it. What is your timing like in terms of when you plan to arrive in NZ and when you actually sail? We always allow extra time in case of flight delays, etc., and especially so when it's a distant port *and* with connections. The Boeing Max situation would make us especially cautious with scheduling. That is, how many flights are there from LAX to NZ each day? It's not like changing a flight early in the day, when there are 3 others later in the day. And not booking directly through the airline introduces another complication. We always make our own air reservations, and for any overseas flights, we always use awards. We always arrive well in advance, leaving us a nice buffer IF needed, plua giving us time to recover from jetlag if necessary, before boarding the ship. We also often spend a few extra days before and after the cruise, if it's a port we've never been to yet. Is it too late to change air reservations? Perhaps at least add an extra day prior to the cruise if you haven't already? That was one of our favorite cruises. We book private excursions, and we gave ourselves several wonderful opportunities with those wonderfully different animals in the area. Enjoy! GC

Several policies allow this, so double check that the coverage *you* get does include this feature. One must start the coverage/pay the premium for the deposit within 10-20 days of making the first payment (it varies by state of residence). Then, as additional non-refundable costs are paid, within that same time interval, up the coverage accordingly. GC

Definitely this ^^ if there is a deadline looming with them, too. Also, at this point, you have NOT been paid by any other insurer, and you can all-too-appropriately state that you aren't sure anything will be recovered from your primary insurer. Then you've started the clock on time! What a mess (understatement! (Note: I still can't quite follow it all, so IF you are writing a summary for someone else, you might try to stick with less elaborate bullet points. Go through this complete thread for where some of us have either asked for more details, or, especially, misunderstood something. You can always explain more if asked, but that might help with the initial overview of what is a real nightmare!) GC

On at least one cruise line, the Butlers are *not* included in the "gratuities" that are billed automatically. So double check where *you* are sailing before assuming they are included and already being "tipped" that way. GC

And just to double check, because you used an third party travel insurer (which one? giving us more info could help a lot...) are you sure they are secondary and not primary? Also, perhaps what is happening could be used for a "secondary" claim? (perhaps the insurers could fight it out!? wishful thinking, I know!) And who sold you that policy? They may be able to help? Just thinking of possibilities...! GC

Unfortunately, we have had to make several travel insurance claims, and ALL were paid promptly without any nonsense. (I've described some of this in even more detail elsewhere on CC a few times.) These were for totally cancelled trips, including the very first insured trip (!). They were for major trip interruptions, such as landing in hospital in the middle of a trip, thus derailing much of the remaining plans. One was for much less, when a flight home from Barbados was... cancelled while we were all at the airport waiting to board... a flight that was not going to arrive. (Grrr.) In that latter case, we got written confirmation from an airline employee about the [finally!] cancellation, and took a taxi back to our very nice resort. According to plenty of grumblings we heard, most of the others had to wait til the wee hours for the airline to find lodging (it was almost Christmas, so ... not much available), and apparently it was, er, "less than satisfactory". Each time, once we submitted all of the required documentation, we had a check within about 2 weeks, with one exception. That was when our non-weather-related claim happened to coincide with two major hurricanes... which had led to a real flurry of claims. We didn't understand the delay, so we called our travel insurance broker, who explained what was going on. He then made a call to our insurer, and within about another week, we had our check. We have purchased our travel insurance through www.TripInsuranceStore.com - and we've gotten policies through Travel Insured. BTW, most of the complaints we've read about travel insurance seem to involve at least one of: 1) The "event" not being a covered event from the start. Sometimes the traveler didn't understand the terms of the coverage. 2) The traveler taking offense at being required to document the claimed loss, such as with receipts. And for claims that are based upon medical events, this usually requires a physician's signed form, or access to actual medical records. [HIPAA does not apply, because the terms of the coverage included the right to get such records if necessary to process a claim. If you don't want to have to share any medical records, don't get coverage that would be based upon medical events.] 3) Similar to #2 above, an insurer needs to get access to *previous* medical records, because the insured had coverage that *excluded* any "pre-existing conditions". These are defined very specifically, and quite differently from what we usually think of in everyday life. The insurer would need to determine that the claim was *not* related to anything pre-existing within the previously defined prior times. We *always* get coverage that does NOT exclude pre-existing condtions or claims related to such. We also get "Cancel For Any Reason" (CFAR) coverage, which is as it states, but only replaces 75% of the loss. This allows us to simply "change our mind", such as if we notice that very bad weather may be heading towards our destination, or we are "worried" about a very elderly relative who isn't so sick (yet!) that a physician would say... "Don't leave just now...!" Of all of our claims, we've actually never used the CFAR coverage, which does cost extra. But it has given us considerable peace of mind on many occasions. ALWAYS read the full terms and conditions of any policy you are considering. Also, it definitely helps to work with an agent or broker. You can tell them about any worries (e.g., sick relative or your own recent medical treatment...) *and* they can ask you questions that would help them determing the most appropriate coverage for *your* situation. And... they can (or *should*!) help with claims if you want help. And ALWAYS get receipts. The only minimal part of one claim that was not paid was for the TIP to a taxi driver. The taxi fares were paid, but not the *tip*... because we didn't have a receipt for that. And that was definitely way too small an amount to fuss over (less than $10 total). But the insurer examined the claim and all the documentation such that they were able to make that determination! GC

This isn't any help now for you, but we did encounter a much lesser snafu. And we now ALWAYS get travel insurance that is "primary", meaning no other insurer needs to deny any claim first. Huge difference! GC

Would your travel insurer be more useful? What have they said about this? GC

Oh, I agree that OP should NOT "need" an attorney. But for whatever reason, this seems somehow quite complicated now. And OP is reasonably concerned that they may end up being held responsible for what may well be a moderately large sum, one that most of us never actually see, as most governments don't bill the patient being medevac'd off a ship. >> Or so I assumed before hearing about a bill from the Portugese authorities anyway. I have no idea if there was another way to handle this from the start. [One thought I had is that *IF* Kaiser is, I think (?), a health provider rather than a "travel insurance company", then this claim may be quite different than what most of us deal with for travel insurance claims. But that may not be the case anyway.] GC

You are a very far distance from us, many states away. So any attorneys we use (in two states) wouldn't be helpful for work in a third, different state where they are not licensed. All I can say is that we have used attorneys at various times (for things more complicated or urgent than a real estate closing, for example) and we've never found it impossible to get help with a sort of demand letter, even if it isn't [yet!?] a demand for money itself. Note that in some cases, this does provide back up should there be claims later, plus it can indeed create the impetus for *someone* to start the ball rolling...... I do agree that it could be exceedingly helpful if you could get your narrative into some bullet points, and without trashing NCL et. al. Trash them here, or later elsewhere, but *not* in the narrative that you need to show an attorney to explain your situation. And also try *very* hard not to trash them in the first meeting with any attorney. Otherwise, they may well miss the forest for the trees... (And use just a few of the *most* important aspects when you call to make an appointment. Otherwise, they will have trouble figuring out what type of situation this really is. Is it medical? Personal Injury? Financial, and if so, what kind....? Don't overlook the fact that *many* of us here have mentioned that we ARE having difficulty keeping track of the full scenario. And look how much time/effort has been expended, but us AND BY YOU. One concise list/summary would have helped us a lot.) [To assist you with that, keep in mind that attorneys charge by the hour or minute, etc. As I was told once, it might be less expensive to do the "complaining" to a shrink or friend, and focus on the legal issues 'here'. Yes indeedy! 😉 ] GC

Several of us have made the same/similar suggestion, yet you keep ignoring it, or rephrasing it. There is a huge (HUGE) difference in an attorney "not taking your case" (as you phrased in initially) vs. "not interested in helping you", as you've just written it. Which attorney told you, exactly: "Writing a letter to Oceania/NCL Holdings warning them that they need to respond or we will no longer be responsible for payment would hold no legal weight whatsoever." If YOU write a letter like that, sure, probably "no legal weight whatsoever". But if an attorney writes that letter, using *specific legal languange as appropriate and has it legally served", that is VERY different indeed. And this (initial communication, letter writing) does not, at this stage, involve "taking your case", so I'm not sure where that idea originated. There are legal meanings in these two and they are *NOT* the same thing. "Not taking a case" would tend to mean you wanted to sue someone... that you actually have a "legal case" (emphasis on *case*, which could be a massive endeavor, especially against a huge corporation, who probably have far deeper pockets than you do). OR... what we have suggested, have the attorney "help you", but "writing a letter". There is no long term endeavor in this... simply a relatively short task, billed hourly. You can keep complaining here about this OR you can ask an attorney to send a letter such as has been suggested (by us and others, some of whom have actual professional legal experience). You can do both, of course, which is also fine: complain here AND get that letter sent. Did you really mean that NO attorney (after asking several) would even "help you" by writing that letter? I honestly cannot even imagine the full aggravation you've experienced. You are worried about possibly being held accountable for a large sum, and you cannot get the proper persons (or corporation) even to be appropriately responsive. But there is a different way to handle it that you seem not to want to explore. There isn't "a legal case" yet. [You definitely want to *avoid* it becoming "a legal case" if possible... absolutely!] At this stage, just get "help" (with a letter), but not "for a case". It's not time to "sue anyone". GC

This is *not* correct, for at least several insurance vendors and policies. as long as it is started within 10-20 days of making the very first payment (depends upon state). And then the same to add additional payments to cover additional non-refundable trip costs as those are made. Please contact by *phone* an insurance agent or broker, to make sure you understand the conditions AND they understand your situation to best be sure your situation is in compliance with whichever policy you get. The "fine print" can really matter. We have done this exact process on many occasions through TripInsuranceStore, and never had a problem with any of our claims (including several large ones). GC

Any update on the status of the repairs or when next cruise may actually depart? Thanks. GC

First: I think all of us (or almost all?) DO understand the aggravation. It seems absurd, yes. But you do need to deal with it to resolve this! Next: AMHuntFerry has the perfect answer. Or one of possible perfect answers(??). 😉 "Pay an attorney to send a letter that says something to the effect of "we won't pay this bill until proof of payment is shown. You have until X date." It's amazing what a simple letter from an attorney can accomplish." It can really be an eye-opener to send a letter from an attorney. (Possible downside: Vendor may respond something like, "You are starting legal action [you have not yet done this, btw, at this stage], so we will only contact you through our legal department." That would be TERRIFIC: You and your attorney will have a direct contact to those who will far more likely to "get it", and once they realize you do NOT "want money", but just documentation (how often is that what is requested/demanded!?), they are likely to want to end this before it might escalate. Yes, I'm probably being a bit optimistic, but let's hope...) Hopefully, either corporate or legal will do *something*, if the letter is from a real attorney. You aren't threatening litigation (not yet, right?) and you aren't demanding any damages, etc. Just documentation! Given the aggravation you've already gone through (considerable!) and the risk of someone trying to get the money from you personally... a small legal fee would be well worth it in our minds. Just speak with an attorney about this type of relatively simple letter. You can continue to be quite rightfully angry, but first, get the nonsense ended! Otherwise, it seems you'll continue to spin your wheels and fret more and more. Let us know if/how this works! GC

I'm having trouble understanding just what this means. Since when does a bill from a major existing business not constitute proof that payment must be made? I'm thinking about, say, a blll for insurance reimbursement. Suppose we have a company come out to replace the fence and landscaping from when a driver skidded off the road and plowed through some of our front yard. We had the fence replaced, for example. We used a bill from the fence installation company, and our insurance reimbursed us. Did our insurer ask for proof from the FenceCo that they had, say, paid their lumber supplier and paid their workers, etc.? If they did, we never heard about it, and have never heard of anything like this before. I could perhaps understand a bit more, er, "proof of payments" if, say, the bill was from Mr/Ms Rumplestiltskin down the street, who had no existing business entity for such work. Is this really a "thing", or is someone just trying to delay - or avoid? - payment? GC

Yes, THIS! ^^ Some of those laundry tags, from various ships (and hotels, etc.), stay on the clothing for a remarkably long time. And some seem to be secure enough that there are no edges or corners to irritate... and similarly, none leading to the little label getting torn off, knowingly or not. I really enjoy the occasional time I unexpectedly stumble across one of those labels. Some of them are in slightly out of the way places, so they probably get less "tugging"... and also get noticed less often. Fun! GC

This doesn't quite make sense, if you think about it from O's position. What if you don't end up taking the cruise (e.g., you get sick). They've paid the money for your visa from your OBC, not from an invoice to you that you have to pay. If you cancel the trip, the OBC isn't relevant anymore. But O would have forked out the money on your behalf anyway. It's one thing to use OBC "in advance" when it's being used to pay for a cruiseline service, such as upscale dining (which doesn't cost extra on O, but does/might on other lines). They aren't giving any outside/non-ship party some money that they plan to collect from you. The visa gets paid for, and it doesn't matter if you ever show up or not: The visa is still paid for, by O on your behalf, and waiting for you. It can't be "returned" or "sold to another passenger", or such. Use the OBC for something "on board", something provided by O, not something they are paying someone else for in advance for you.. Now, *IF* they allow the OBC to be used for this, I'd be surprised, unless you've agreed to reimburse them once they've paid... But hey... I've heard of crazier things, so it's "worth asking them"... 😉 GC