BWIVince

I totally get the point about some of the CS members just being on cloud nine about just being back at all, but I have to admit my jaw dropped a little when I read your message... I don't think I've ever traveled with as hypercritical a group of travelers as Crystal's passengers as a composite persona. 😄. The borderline ridiculous things I've heard the staff and officers berated over across the years still gives me PTSD chills just remembering some of them. That applied to both onboard and in reviews, and as much to the long-tenured as the newer-to-Crystal members. I know we all know and some some CS members with a more positive outlook, but IME I'm not at all sure they were the rule and not the exception. Vince

The agents have the info, just not graphically... If you share your questions with your travel agent, Crystal's agent should be able to relay which cabins are available in which tiers, and since you have focused questions that shouldn't be a heavy lift. Given the turnaround on the updated descriptions, I can't imagine we're months away from updated deck plans, but that said who knows what other plan changes/refinements the designers may be waiting to update in the next round, which might be holding those up. 🤷‍♂️ Vince

You did a great job with the graphic -- it was perfectly legible to me! My take: 1 -- Yes, they are planning to remove two lifeboats to enhance those cabins, made feasible by the new capacity. 2 - I'd wait on this to see how the double veranda cabins plan out on the updated deck plans. There aren't many of them, but there are some, and how they get graded in the end will determine the answer. 3 - The obstructed cabins without numbers are being removed from inventory at this point -- they may still (and likely will be) used for other purposes, like crew or contractors as they have in the past (often), but not sold to passengers like they once were. The others are double window staterooms, but again I'd recommend waiting until the regrading to see exactly how these play out on the scale. They may be a little lower because of the minor obstruction on either side of the window. 4 - You did well with the graphic, IMHO! Does this help any? Vince

QUITE the opposite... Buying another company's intellectual property is LITERALLY the vehicle for having it both ways. It allows a new company, completely different company to purchase and implement a former company's brands, trademarks, products, traditions, recipes and trade property. Will the new company be exactly the same as the old company, of course not, but the new company paid specifically to be able to offer all of the former company's brand standards that they choose -- and they specifically paid significantly to be able to do EXACTLY that. Vince

They’re literally marked on the deck plans with a wheelchair icon — it’s not unclear. We don’t have video or photos of how the rooms will appear after renovation yet of course, which was the OP’s request, but that doesn’t make it unclear. Vince

I just got a question on this via email so I wanted to expand on something I said…. Pre-sales means pre-opening sales, meaning the sales base before the launch…. Not the sales phase before sales open, because that’s not a thing. 😊 Vince

In fairness, we haven’t gotten to day 1 yet — we’re still in the presales phase, and in the travel industry that’s ALWAYS in flux to some degree until planning is finished, and even then some changes still occur (to a smaller degree) until implementation is complete and the product is launched. This is HARDLY the last thing that’s going to change until their plans are finalized — or even we get through shakedown…. That’s going to be a whole other adventure of changes. Vince

Yep, Harmony launched with Prego from the beginning, and it’s the only dining concept that all three ships had from previous Crystal’s beginning to end, plus or minus the Trident Grill and Scoops. Jade Garden was only on Symphony (the way Kyoto was only on Harmony), and existed from launch in 1995 until 2008 when the ship was refitted with a sushi bar and updated decor, and renamed Silk Road to harmonize with Serenity’s Silk Road that she was launched with. Jade Garden went through several culinary concepts during those years, including Chinese, Pan Asian, Southeast Asian fusion, and a stint with Wolfgang Puck consulting on some menu items from his Chinois experience, as Chinois at Jade Garden. (His famous Chinois Chicken Salad remained a Crystal staple for years after the venue closed, appearing in other places around the ship.). Nobu began his relationship with Crystal in 2001 and the Silk Road concept with his leadership was formally announced for the upcoming Serenity on June 27, 2002. As far as I’m aware, nothing significant besides the name switched with Umi Uma — Crystal just needed a brand they could trademark since the generic Silk Road name was problematic as they were trying to invest in the concept for future ships. Let me know if you have any other questions — I know lots of history. 😊 Vince

Personally, I think that would be very challenging. The lease on modern machines is extremely expensive, and the operators require guarantees that Crystal would have to subsidize at a loss with the volume of business Crystal has historically experienced. The situation at Las Vegas Reid is pretty much as close to the opposite of a Crystal ship as I can imagine — for the few machines they have per square foot in the airport, they have 5+ million passengers a MONTH passing through there right now, most of whom are headed to a casino for one reason or another. Vince

I haven’t been in Serenity’s Seabreezes yet, but for me I’m Team Classic when it comes to Symphony’s. The loss of the jetted tub is measurable to me (I know others don’t care), and the decor in the Seabreezes being newer isn’t a plus to me.. For the most part I like the look of the classic rooms and the appointments better. I don’t find the Seabreezes to feel that much more cramped, but to the extent that they do I don’t mind the loss of the few feet for the shared entry — I actually really like that feature…. To me the way the bathroom and bigger closet (which seems mostly like more shoe racks??) compress the living space more, and more evenly, closes in the room more. The classic PH’s (now Aquamarine) cleverly used the angled bathroom to steal space from the room but still open it up a little visually, to the desk area where the room was deeper. The effect in the 2017 design is flatter and compressed. Just my preference… Vince

I think the complaint about the deck plans not reflecting the pricing schema when bookings open due to the plans still being in flux is perfectly valid and would frustrate me just as much if I were in your shoes, but I’m not sure how I understand this is a complaint about how Crystal treats legacy passengers? You don’t seem like you were discriminated against in any way, nor should you have received any kind of favor for your status based on that request. If you were expecting them to waive the location-based pricing just for you because you were a CS member, I don’t think that’s fair or reasonable. (Maybe if they had misquoted the fares, but they didn’t in this case — no error was made on the agent’s part.) Whether the difference in suites is worth the premium, OTOH, is a different subject than the header, but worthy of discussion. Vince

Those specific Cove chairs (and many more) were a running joke between my mother and I... (This is going to sound horrible, but to those of you who knew my mother and I offline and our humorous teasing relationship, know this was perfectly fitting for us.) I always joked it wasn't the chair's fault she was built funny! 😄 I'd be sitting there super comfortable, and her arms and legs were so out of proportion with the chairs, the furniture looked like it was from a different planet than her. 😆 I could only get away with that since she made me... So yes, those chairs definitely don't fit everyone. 🙂 Vince

For visuals specifically, yes, as we always are with any refit or new build. Vince

Were the Aquamarines specifically what you were interested in? Because there are also the four window staterooms on deck 7 as well (though I know you said available, so that might have ruled them out). Those have been there as long as I can remember, so there are probably old videos available online, but we won't have new videos of them post-refit until after the renovations are done just before relaunch. IMHO, this is probably where your agent might be priceless... IME, they'll be able to get a more solid answer working through the sales organization than any passenger-facing CS person would. Others may have a better lead though. Vince

+1 on ALL those points. I absolutely adore Alison Clixby and all of her work, but The Chair comes to immediate mind as well. I'm honestly surprised that Serenity's Avenue wasn't redesigned at some point, given the challenges with the bar. I know there's no easy fix for it, but plenty of harder, less needed changes have been made to Serenity over the years. To Keith's point about designers, and maybe a little in defense of them, no matter how many questions they ask and no matter how many use cases are provided, there are always incorrect assumptions, bad information, missed requirements, etc. in the design process. This is why things get so extensively modeled digitally these days, and why things like staterooms get mock ups that people have to actually use and provide feedback on before fabrication begins... And this is also why refits take 2-3 years (normally) from the beginning of the planning process to completion of the punch list. That said, even with the mockups and test rooms, some things get clearer after full scale deployment with a broader group of customers... Again: The Chair. Vince

It was dedicated March 21 or 22, 2008... I'm not home right now and don't have access to any of my stuff, but I was at the dedication and remember the date vaguely enough. It opened for shakedown service a few days before that, and entered full service right after that. Vince

Wow, that does look and sound wonderful! Please write back after you two visit next month, I’d love to hear more! (Not that I don’t appreciate Tom’s reviews as well — I do!) Vince

I agree…. I’m hesitant to speculate on what Crystal isn’t doing to the staterooms, but there is no easy way for then to change the shared entryways on the Seabreeze-generation Aquamarine suites. Their alternatives include moving the toilet into the shower, moving the toilet into the bedroom, or moving the door to replace one of the sinks and having you walk in through the bathroom… 🙂. None of which I can see them doing. The shared entries are a space saving device (among other benefits) that can’t be easily reversed. Vince

Yep, I think the hierarchy goes CP, Junior CP, then Sapphire and Aquamarine…. All 9 versions of the above on both ships would include a walk-in closet according to the renderings. Not that a walk-in closet is in itself superior — many people remember Harmony’s “innovation” of walk-in closets in all its windowed staterooms on decks 7 and 5, and what an upgrade it was when they got rid of them for Symphony and Serenity’s standard staterooms. 😁 Vince

Ok, big picture post coming... From outside the industry, I think if you look at Crystal's relationship with Nobu you just take it as face value as another licensing deal -- which it is. But I think there's a significant role it's played in both luxury cruising and helping redefine Crystal as a brand in its middle-age that sometimes gets overlooked. For the first decade+ of Crystal's life, they (and EVERY other luxury line through their absence) struggled to make an Asian cuisine concept that people viewed as appropriately premium for luxury cruising. They tried making Japanese fancy, they tried focusing on what's normally expensive on Asian menus, they tried using primarily ingredients people perceived as luxurious, they tried going trendy with Asian fusion, they tried going authentic with popular southeast Asian flavors -- none of it resonated -- despite two venues and a handful of concepts between them. Then Crystal applied a formula that worked for them on other projects -- license a venue consulted with a chef that has premium cachet in that segment. That was a tried and true formula, but groundbreaking for an Asian venue on a cruise ship at the time -- and it was HIGHLY successful in turning Crystal's reputation (and of Asian food in general for US-based ships at the time) on that aspect. Looking around the industry, I don't think this is something that other lines have really solved for either. Other luxury or upper-premium lines have Asian venues or concepts that serve good food, just like Crystal did before Nobu. Other lines serve good sushi. Good sushi and good Asian dishes are a given in most of our lives, and most Americans can now get that within a reasonably short drive of our homes. I enjoy the variety of both on a cruise, but the "I had that last week before my cruise and will probably have it again next week after I get home" limits my excitement in those cases. What Nobu brought to the party was something fewer people had that same access to (whether because of location or price point), and a brand that was perceived as both premium and relatively unique - though many of his dishes are mimicked worldwide now... Which again speaks to his cachet. So whether or not some passengers thought Nobu was a culinary icon or not (or to their taste), it certainly represented Crystal pushing the cruise industry to turn a corner on what it meant to serve Asian cuisines to luxury passengers. Mimicking this success is what's at stake in this potential change. Just some food for thought. Vince

I mean yes, BUT, there will also be a point in time when the plans are finalized, everything will go into fabrication, and the installation work will begin. More info will become available at those various points, just like it does with EVERY refit. So I don't blame anyone holding off to book because they're not comfortable with the unknowns -- many people wouldn't be... And this is always the fun with a new launch, and relatively new territory for a company to launch on such a compressed timeline. But it's hardly the first time we've seen info and details change as the design process progresses on a travel industry project, let alone a cruise ship. Vince

That was exactly the lens I framed my message in the other other thread with, but these renderings don’t go that direction either (THANKFULLY)…. There are no open wire bins, exposed hanging rods, open shelves or cubbies in the renderings either, like every hotel room built in the last 2 years is loaded with. Otherwise I’d at least be able to be able to make sense of that, even though it would be its own disaster (see: Virgin Voyages). Vince

I raised the same concern in another thread — I’m with you on this, as I used most of those drawers on longer cruises! On Symphony, there were 8 regular drawers, a shallow desk drawer, the corner bar cabinet, the three shelves on the inboard side, the tall shelf on the outboard side, plus the safe and fridge. The new diagrams only show the 4 knobs on the outboard side of the desk and the shallow drawer on the new desk units, and the desk chair in the renderings obscure the drawer details. If there really are 4 drawers there, assuming the safe goes in the closet , what happens to the fridge? Also, the nightstands look taller and like they provide more storage than the current ones, but not not that much more. Something doesn’t add up here…. But this is always the fun of speculating from renderings, on a project with such a compressed timeline. Vince

I can’t speak for Serenity, but Symphony’s former PS and PH penthouses received new sofas, side chairs, cocktail tables, and the desk chairs were recovered before she reentered service in 2021. As Keith said we don’t know what the detailed plans are yet, but worst case even if they did nothing to the classic Aquamarines and Sapphires, the furnishings just had a few months of pretty light service since the last update, minus anything unspeakable happening during the layup. Vince

Coincidences always make troubleshooting tricky. 😊 We’re all still learning about the nuances of the new pricing schema. Vince