BWIVince

This also isn't happening in a vacuum... Now that I'm finally starting to frequently do the same kind of travel I was doing pre-pandemic and can compare the same types of fares/routes and hotels/rates directly, I've been consistently paying 45-70% more for hotels and 60-80% more for similar air than I did before February of 2020. I also just paid $6.50 for a bottle of a mayo-based condiment, so... Travel's not the only thing that's gone up lately. Vince

Even the "old" furniture on Deck 8 hasn't seen much use -- it was replaced before the ship reentered service in 2021. (The cabinetry/night stands and the bathrooms weren't updated, but all the furnishings were, except the desk chairs which were replaced on the refit before.). Symphony's deck 8 should still be easier to tell than deck 9 though, as it stands right now everything looks like it will be either reconfigured (suites) or refit (double staterooms). Vince

For you Kathie, I’ll work all night to make up..err..get an answer! 😁 💜. I’ve started by doing my own research on ideal ratios though [setting down glass], so I promise to get on this right after I take a slightly induced nap…. 😁 Vince

This whole joke really stopped being funny a while back. If you can't understand how having multiple venues still being decided, and each venue potentially having a swing of 10+ crew member requirements (depending on the concept selected) would change a total number of crew, I'm afraid there is little else anyone here can do to help. That's just basic math. Vince

Of course it’s their business to know — and they will absolutely know exactly how many people to hire and contract — and acquire them — once those details are all finalized. That is definitely not true about the casino though…. How many people are needed for that space will depend on exactly what comes of it. Crystal has many public rooms that don’t add any dedicated crew members, and it could possibly become something along those lines. Even if it becomes a lounge though, a lounge that size uses less than half the crew members of a casino. Hence the issue with exact numbers. Vince

That’s exactly my point…. Saying a crew ratio of 1:1 covers a range of numbers that matches the general allocations that they are working with right now at this phase in the development of the product. The exact number will vary until some of the decisions are finalized, which will impact exactly how many people it takes to staff the ship at maximum capacity. It’s not disingenuous— it’s a process. I don’t know how you think they can estimate the exact number of crew it will take to staff a space when you have no idea whether you need anyone in there at all — and that’s just one space that’s still in play. Vince

Let me try to deconstruct the hypothetical crew number, that will probably help explain it better… The maximum crew number is a bottom-up roll-up of positions, not a top-down count…. Meaning they don’t set a ratio of passenger to crew, and then hope they magically have people to do all of the tasks, they start with general estimates and proportions and allot crew to departments before breaking down those estimates into specific, individual positions. Positions then get moved between departments, venues or shifts as the schedule gets more granular. Sometimes positions can be split between venues as capacity dictates, when the schedule gets to its most granular, as you saw with the staff in the Bistro, Lido, and other venues. There are holes right now in the product design that are still being decided and designed, which have different staffing models depending on where the concepts finally land. (The casino space is just one example — it could require anywhere from approx. 10 crew to zero crew, depending on what’s decided — and that’s just 1 room still in flux among many product aspects in play. So that general estimate of proportions appears to be the number they’re quoting right now because it gives a good round proportion of crew based on what’s known at this point, but that number will move around and change a bit when you get down to the final schedule of positions. That’s when you know exactly how many people you need, where you need them, and when…. And most importantly how many crew it will take to serve exactly how many passengers are on each cruise, based on occupancy. Does that make more sense now? Vince

I’m not sure of how many other ways to say this…. Setting aside that staffing is variable and that makes the numbers rough to begin with, how can they have an exact (maximum) crew count at this point until they have a firm final list of crew positions, designed from the final product offering — which we’re still weeks (optimistically) or months (realistically) away from? They can give you an estimate based on what’s known at this point, but not an exact number. Vince

Even if the exact hypothetical maximum capacity vs. hypothetical maximum crew were definitive of something (which within the degree of rounding it’s not, for the reasons I explained above), there are a couple of service aspects that are still being finalized that will drive that exact final count…. Like what kind of venue goes into to the casino’s spot. (A casino will up headcount significantly, a bar will up headcount slightly, and an unstaffed space will up headcount by zero.) Same goes for what kind of dining venue goes in where Umi Uma was to a smaller degree, and other service aspects still being decided. Again, I get the importance of passenger-to-crew ratios, but I stress again not to get too hung up on an exact number because you’d need real occupancy and real crew numbers, all of which vary wildly, to get that fine a point on it. The posted numbers can be 1:1, which is a good baseline of comparison, but one cruise will have a way higher ratio of crew, another cruise will have a slightly higher ratio of crew, and a third cruise may in rare cases actually have a higher ratio of passengers than that. Sometimes the rounded numbers are the best ones to use. Vince

Crew staffing varies by occupancy — not exactly by cruise, but as the crew periodically depart and arrive, they will time the returning crew based on need (and sometimes even the departing crew, though less frequently, based on need). So the “crew capacity” number posted on websites is a maximum, which may or may not be applicable on any given cruise. For that reason, I wouldn’t get too hung up on exact numbers, because they are rarely accurate to that degree. Crystal hasn’t fleshed out several product aspects that will vary the number of crew slightly — I suspect they’ll delay committing to an exact maximum until they know exactly which product elements make the cut…. But as Keith said, the rounded number should be within range of the practice all cruise lines use to give an estimate. Vince

I think we’re at least a couple months away from knowing details, but no one “expects” anyone to book before then either — it’s just an option. Bookings are open for people that want to book, the early adopters per se, but a lot of people expect more details before they book a vacation of this magnitude, and that’s great as well. Booking other trips until the details or actual reports appear is fantastic for everyone that works best for. Vince

You posted my entire life to this point, in one paragraph. 😁 I do SO much laundry (I’m literally doing it right now), that I will pay any price not to have to touch it on vacation. OTOH, back when my parents were alive, they carried packets of Woolite in their suitcases their entire lives (before they started cruising later), and had made close friends with people they met in the laundry rooms on the various lines they sailed (like Keith mentioned). My parents always gave me heat for paying for laundry when I could do it myself cheaper or free, but if I threw back the comparison with the cruise fare, I always got, “how do you think we can afford to take cruises like this?” 😊 The same thing went for room service…. (Back before Covid, when room service was still a thing) I had NO problem ordering room service if I was tired enough, or didn’t want to have to go out for anything. OTOH, I can only remember my parents eating room service once, in 1978, when my grandparents actually ordered and paid for it. 😏 Vince

In fairness, what’s been reported is second hand (as in not from Crystal) information. Crystal hasn’t announced any entertainment or enrichment info yet…. And the PR head was JUST hired — let’s give her a month or two to hire the rest of her organization before we expect any robust communications. Vince

I sense some confusion about the specifics of the travel industry, so I’ll give some background. Sales positions in the travel industry are extremely transient — you can expect your contacts at suppliers to frequently change every 2-4 years at the lower level positions, or 5-8 years on the exec side, if I had to quantify my experience with hotels, venues and cruise lines. (There are certainly exceptions, but they’re notable, and are usually rising stars that a company is trying to hang on to for more strategic reasons.) Why is that? For most sales people, you reach a point in the company where you’re essentially excellent at what you do, but you’re doing the same thing for the company that you’ve always done, and you’re one person among others that can do the same thing. For a few years you crush it because of performance incentives, but after that, the performance incentives tap out based on potential, and you’ve reached the cap on what the company is willing to pay for the same expertise and sales. You need to advance positions in order to pay more, and you’re swimming in an organization of people using the same tools and methodology, with the same focus. So how does one advance? While some people are fine with honing their craft and making incrementally more, sales people in travel often tire of this quickly and want to keep advancing. In order to do that, you realize your value is in taking your expertise to a company in a different situation that is looking for change. Another company is happy to pay more for your expertise and experience than your current employer because to your current employers it’s the status quo, but to the other company your knowledge is transformational. So where do the NCC’s come into this? Well, they’re automatic in everyone’s employment agreements at major travel suppliers to try to suppress this, but as mentioned upthread because they’re automatic and required for employment they are virtually unenforceable. This is where the claims of damages try to add teeth to the agreements, but usually this is just to try to force the case to a settlement, which the new employer usually knows as a term needed to actually acquire the talent. Again, I have no specific knowledge of this case outside of what’s been presented through press articles, but so far to me it smells like every other case I’ve seen. It may well be an exception and actually not get settled for what Crystal is happy to pay, but I’d be surprised. Vince

It’s just a newer word for an ooooolllld concept. Crystal worked with influencers for decades, under different titles. Vince

That's what's going to have to get hashed out... Because if it's just the sales compensation calculators and contacts referenced in the case, that's a tough sell as "intellectual property"... NOT an impossible one, they may have something uniquely magical (that in his role he would have been responsible for helping develop) and they could win the case, but more often than not that just fits the scenario I outlined above because sales is pretty cut and dry, and similar supplier-to-supplier. This is where the extra context comes in handy. Vince

Totally... ...And also there IS NO product yet to be experts on. Most of the product hasn't been designed yet, so when it is, the agents will get that training. There's not a lot for them to say at this point though. Vince

We've hashed this case out before, and we're really going to need to see where this lands because it comes down to Silversea having to prove that their proprietary data was actually stolen -- something that is often exaggerated, misconstrued or just plain false in cases like this. Here's the backstory again for anyone that doesn't remember... NCC's are automatic in sales in the travel industry, which by nature makes them almost uniformly unenforceable across the industry -- something we know when we sign them and the employers know when they're added to the boilerplate of forms we sign when we get hired. The main way for a company to "enforce" an NCC is to claim damages, since they can't actually stop a salesperson from working for a competing supplier, since that's their primary work experience. Usually this is a delay or harassment tactic, because most of the "sensitive" and "proprietary" information the sales people have are in no way sensitive or proprietary. Silversea is just going to have to make their case and see if the case sticks... But I've rarely seen a case like this where there has been enough merit to change things. Usually these just get settled for something the new company is happy to pay through the employee, and the old company is just glad they got something for their efforts. Time will tell... Vince

That is spot on, Keith. All three Crystal ocean ships had the casino in that exact spot -- despite differences in their evening flow patterns, to deliberately catch passengers as they pass by to enter and exit the Galaxy (significant because it's the highest capacity lounge), which is usually in use at similar times the casino is open. Vince

This I think is the perfect illustration of the new ownerships intentions and commitment… Published reports had A&K making offers to GHK before the shutdown and to the assignees preliminarily immediately after the shutdown, even ahead of the formal process by which they ultimately bought the brand and IP (and separately the ships from other parties). I don’t know if A&K reached out to prior leaders like these immediately or these folks just saw the writing on the wall, but I know from experience these things don’t just randomly happen. Vince

Haha. And there it is…. 😁. I swear I didn’t hear about Robyn’s hiring before posting that, I just know how this goes. So now she’ll be hiring out her team from this point as the positions get authorized. Vince

It was a lot easier to brush off the captains returning as coincidences or insignificant, but it’s a lot harder to brush off all 4 of the ocean ship hotel directors returning. That says a lot about what the company is trying to build and their commitment to it, and the role of the HD’s on what’s being built. All four are great, but at least two of them are among the most seasoned, respected and sought after in the industry. That absolutely shows an investment in talent. Vince

I seriously doubt they’ve been hired yet… Comms is likely one person at this point, and they’re focused more on getting these staged emails out for the reservations opening and press releases than more fluffy CS updates, if I had to guess. I’m sure emails will ramp up when staffing gets built out, and then we’ll regret what we wished for. 😊 Vince

To that point, within the constraints of port availability this close-in, I think the itineraries read as they're designed to be starter-itineraries... They remind me a lot of what you see from a new cruise line the first year or two. IMHO they're trying to make the company as accessible to sample it as they can within the expectations of the segment and CS diehards, considering the passengers are less likely to make a huge commitment with a less known entity. Vince

I still contend we're talking about specific people... 🙂 The reviews posted in the database about Crystal were hardly overly flattering. Vince