markeb

So do you have an arbitration date yet? I mean somewhere around page 321(a) subparagraph 5.1.3(c) in your cruise ticket Celebrity spelled out the procedure for arbitration. Right after the paragraph that said you agreed to arbitration and right before the paragraph that said you had to file any legal challenges in Florida and close to the one that said you couldn't participate in a class action. It was easy to ready in Arial 6. So I'm assuming you've filed for arbitration for breach of contract? Venting is fine. Maybe even cathartic. But if people really think they aren't getting what they paid for then there are remedies in the cruise contract. Cruise Critic isn't a remedy. I'm sure you're not getting what you think you paid for. You're not getting what I want to believe I paid for. But I'm betting unless they have the worst corporate lawyers on earth, we're actually getting what we really paid for. And we accepted their ability to change pretty much everything even after we bought the cruise. And I'm also sure they'll gladly send you the link where you could have read all those terms before actually buying the cruise. And no, I didn't read them either. I just assume they're there and that they're designed to hose me over. Like Ticketmaster, the airlines, MLB, NBA, NFL, NCAA, most carmakers, etc.

Best list is in the app. What are you looking for?

Why? Are you still booking X? If you are, you’ve already accepted the changes.

Since the thread is about the Retreat, the point for many of us is that differentiation hasn't really ever existed. There was probably a cutoff on price, but you never really saw it. I never saw a Macallan 25, or even 18, in the Retreat, as an example, but there was never an issue with most any other liquor. The Retreat bartender would usually track down something passengers on the cruise were drinking if they weren't stocking it the first day. That was usually wine, but sometimes whisky as well. And the list is pretty much obsolete before they hit "Save as PDF". For instance in mid-November, the Retreat had Buffalo Trace, the Balvenie 12 year Triple Wood (travel version), Macallan Quest, and eventually I believe a Glenmorangie travel edition. None of those are on that list. All were available in various venues, and were available at the Retreat bar. With no concern about price.

I’m also talking about the Retreat. But the demographic with money but not time. They’re not likely to cross shop the lux lines’ longer and sometimes more difficult to reach cruises. And they fit squarely in the demographic Celebrity seems to be targeting.

I'm going to agree and disagree. Remember that Celebrity is a subsidiary of RCG; the brand president no longer even wears the CEO title. It seems pretty apparent that Liberty and the Board are under pressure and pressuring their subordinates to produce revenue for shareholders. That's kind of their ultimate job. Liberty is a finance guy. LHB has an operations background. With pressure to produce revenue, they're going to default to form. And it's not just quarterly. I'm pretty sure it's been several years since RCG even paid a dividend. A strategic change could take years to have an impact. That leaves nibbling on the margins with slight increases in revenue where you can and slight decreases in expenses where you can. But those conflict with the strategic position of a "near luxury" (whatever that really means) cruise line winning awards for its food and beverage programs in particular. That always looked great as a customer. I don't know that it was as profitable as we all thought? They're changing their strategy through operational decisions, rather than a well thought out process where the strategy informs the operations and finance. It's not fun to watch and I'm glad I'm not on the inside of this... I don't think Celebrity views the true luxury lines as its real competition. I know you do, and it is for you. Celebrity is (or was very recently) targeting the younger, affluent demographic, probably starting at 35-40 and going up to the mid 50's. Those are folks who might cruise with them for another decade or more. That's not the true luxury lines real market, and Celebrity can/could offer product there that the luxury lines don't. Such as 7 day cruises from easily accessible ports. Even if you're paying less on Regent (for instance) but the cruise is longer than you can take off, and/or it takes you an extra day to reach the cruise and return, you're not looking at that cruise. Obviously Celebrity happily takes repeat customers outside that demographic, and for the Retreat, those customers likely are and should compare the true luxury lines. Nibbling at the margins is a symptom to me. Lesser wines for more money. More upcharges. Drinks priced over the drink package limit. That's NOT what they should be doing especially for their highest margin passengers (the Retreat). People pay the Retreat prices in part to not deal with that. To me the disease is they've lost sight of their overall business strategy. They spent a lot of money on the Edge class in particular to make the Retreat and its all included offerings the keystone of their strategy. And then they insist on defeating that advantage by silly things like a $2.40 upcharge for a wine you can probably buy at Walmart! Time to sit back and enjoy the holidays. At home.

I think it depends on the house band. The last couple of house bands were guitar rock/keyboard, mostly 70's/80's. Although I remember this group doing some current pop as well (I think Taylor Swift, maybe Beyonce, but a lot of Eagles, some Foo Fighters, etc.). There was also a string duo (guitar and violin) that were very good, but they were usually earlier in the evening. On our cruise in 2022 the house band was from Mexico and they did a Latino themed night that was incredibly popular.

Live music for the most part. On our cruise there was a DJ outside the Martini Bar one floor up, so the grand foyer and martini bar spill into each other.

You can write as many letters or emails as you want, but if you continue to book, who cares. Enough people apparently are happily booking AI and so far not sweating the upcharge. Maybe new cruisers who have none of the expectations of CCers and will cruise for years from a different start point. We’re probably taking a break from cruising in general. But too many people on this and other threads are simply grousing while feeding the beast. If you don’t like it, don’t pay for it. All stop!

I was sure it was about Goose Island (IPA)...

Passable wine with good people beats great wine with bad company every time! The thread has gone down the wine rabbit hole, but the people you’re drinking it with is what really matters! (Oh, and I’d go with the Freemark Abbey too!)

I still think it's a crappy way to treat customers, but most people do not know what it costs at retail, and if they're on a package, they only know they're paying $2.40. I'm really believe people on this board put far more thought in this than the average passenger... (Oh, and yes. Decoy is a barely passable wine. The parent company, Duckhorn, makes some outstanding wines. Decoy isn't one of them.)

Nuts and I have different opinions on Broadway type, but I won’t disagree with the general statements.

There are no “Broadway type shows”. There are two primary production shows that are a mix of music and aerobatics. There are typically comedians and other musical performers. The ship has several venues with live music. Expect a rock band (sort of), a string duet or trio, and a couple of wild cards. Sets are 45 minutes, which is kind of choppy when they’re good. There will probably be a silent disco (more fun than you might think) and a DJ. The grand foyer will go until about 11:00, then things will shift upstairs. Any given night will be different, as will any given cruise.

It's a crazy stupid price, but the pricing is undoubtedly based on the drink package. Not true on this thread (and not a form of marketing I'm really comfortable with) but I'm betting most people will buy a drink package and not pay attention. And even the upcharge wines will only be viewed as the delta, not the absolute cost. If you do have a drink package, have a couple of poolside drinks, a pre-dinner martini (or two) and an after dinner drink, you're probably at a point where a $2.40 upcharge for a "$19" glass of wine doesn't really matter. It pushes the whole sunk cost fallacy on the drink package...

I get it, but that's hardly unique to Celebrity or to cruising. It happens all the time in hotels. A few years ago, a number of hotels went to automated inventory systems (touch sensitive) for minibars. If you picked an item up to look at it, the system charged you for it, even if you set it back down.

Your bill is in the app and updates almost in real time. It's also available on the TV. I'm glad they don't stuff a hard copy statement on our door anymore. I think most of us don't want a bunch of paper to just throw away.

So, a Chicago steakhouse is lower than Celebrity (by quite a bit) but also charges about bottle retail for a glass. I’d love prices to be lower, but I’m not seeing Celebrity’s prices that out of line with the norm. I personally think Decoy cab is a $9.99/glass MAX wine, which would put it in the classic package. But @phoenix_dream example is about one glass price = one retail bottle price. It’s high (and higher than the Chicago restaurant price) but not significantly different than land prices. I’d gladly buy wine at @jelayne’s friend’s restaurant. That seems well below normal markups.

I’m seeing a mixed bag. Most decent reds are above the package limit. For EQ they’re now offering the Kiowa Red Mountain merlot for $19; in November that was only available by the bottle. Still an upcharge, but not a full bottle. The Grgich Hills cab is still an $8 upcharge, but it was worth it the time I did it. I don’t expect a truly good California Cab in the packages, but the “other reds” seem to have vanished as well. It would be interesting to run the by the glass prices by a good NYC/Chicago/Miami etc. restaurant price (if they carry the same wines). My gut says Celebrity is high, but I have no frame of reference. They’re high compared to bottle prices, but so are almost all restaurants.

Yeah. I’ve always been offered things that weren’t in the app. The printed wine list has been pretty unreliable, if it’s even offered. And looking at the App for Equinox Luminae, there are other offerings. Nothing spectacular.

To think that ships used to take world voyages without satellite communications, radar, collision avoidance systems, computer assisted navigation, etc. You’re more than welcome to return to those times. I’ll stay in the present.

Sailing from where to where? What stops? Do any of the ports of call require six months? There’s no one size fits all answer.

The OP actually asked a specific question with an actual legally defined answer. The USDA grades most beef as prime, choice, or select; there are no letter grades. There are lesser grades, but those aren’t common restaurant quality grades. If the ship is sailing from a US port it’s USDA graded. It’s probably choice, but I don’t think they advertise a grade. Select has apparently become more common on the market in general. There were significant sell offs of beef over the last couple of years largely due to droughts. Much of that was probably select. Conversely, that would make prime less common. It’s possible Celebrity is buying (more?) select but I’ve not seen anything that would confirm or deny that. I don’t know what they do if the ship is sailing from other parts of the world. I remember threads where posters stated they shipped US beef to those locations. If it’s US beef fo interstate or international sales, it would be USDA inspected and graded.

Looking at the app, apparently Chateau Souverain and Exelsior from South Africa.

I know you get taken to the cleaners on wine in Canada, but it's about $36 at Total Wine in Virginia (2021 vintage). That's pretty good pricing for a Russian River Pinot Noir.