Gem slide still not operational

We just got back last week from the Gem. I remember there were several people asking about the new slide. Here's what I found out. They had a problem with the pump and had to order a new one. The crew that I spoke with said it could be a "few" weeks. After they install it, they will need to have it inspected but that an only be done in a U.S. port. They had hoped it would be ready for the holiday week since they are expecting lots of kids but.....(just shrugged his shoulders) didn't think it would happen :(

When I was onboard last week I was told just about the same thing. The Future cruise consultant said they received the pump during the drydock but it is the wrong pump. Even though it works the water slide it is not up to code and therefore they cannot open it due to liability issues.

That's not good news!

well that is a bummer! Even though I can live without the slide, I was looking forward to trying it. But I really feel bad for all the children who will be very disappointed. For me it's not a big deal, as I am not traveling with children this time, but as a mom I know there will be many upset kids and I don't blame them. I hope the OP is wrong and the slide gets fixed for the holiday sailing.

Horrible job by NCL. How do you order the wrong pump? And once you realize that it is wrong, how do you not fast track a new one? It's been almost two months since it went in for the refurb.

If they are blaming it on a pump, than that is the lamest excuse ever. A trip to the hardware store when they are in port and a couple of hours to install it and you are good to go. Even if you used a different pump that did not come with the slide it could easily be retrofitted to make it work. All you need is pump that will pump the required amount of water up 25 or so feet, that's it. Heck when I am on the Gem in March, I will get it working myself, not kidding. Maybe NCL will comp me a free bottle of wine or something.

Seriously though if it is a safety issue then it needs to be fixed correctly and inspected. For a pump though, c'mon.

Horrible job by NCL. How do you order the wrong pump? And once you realize that it is wrong, how do you not fast track a new one? It's been almost two months since it went in for the refurb.

Nothing in the posts above says NCL ordered the wrong pump. All that the above posts say is that the wrong pump was delivered. (Have you never been on the receiving end of the wrong shipment?)

As for how long it takes to get the right pump, install it, and get it inspected, how the heck do we know?

Given the holiday sailings, I'm sure NCL would much rather have the new slide operational than not.

Horrible job by NCL. How do you order the wrong pump? And once you realize that it is wrong, how do you not fast track a new one? It's been almost two months since it went in for the refurb.

Yea right, the ship is run like a small government. You think anything gets done fast and in a logical way?:D They probably have a dozen people who have looked at the problem (only two of them know what they are looking at)

If they are blaming it on a pump, than that is the lamest excuse ever. A trip to the hardware store when they are in port and a couple of hours to install it and you are good to go. Even if you used a different pump that did not come with the slide it could easily be retrofitted to make it work. All you need is pump that will pump the required amount of water up 25 or so feet, that's it. Heck when I am on the Gem in March, I will get it working myself, not kidding. Maybe NCL will comp me a free bottle of wine or something.

 

Seriously though if it is a safety issue then it needs to be fixed correctly and inspected. For a pump though, c'mon.

Having worked in the fluid control devices industry for about 15 years a while ago, you can't imagine how complex pumps are. We are not talking about hardware store pumps.

I don't know what criteria have to be met for a pump to be installed in a water activity area on a ship. In the US, in water parks, they are usually UL and NSF listed, typically use three phase power (with 9, count 'em, 9 wires to hook up) and may need to include sensors or other "anti-suction devices" to keep from sucking peoples insides out. See this pub med article, for instance: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7966487 PubMed references drain covers (for residential installations) but for commercial applications local codes are often much more stringent.

I suspect this is a 15 HP water pump designed specifically for shipboard use with salt water, and is neither common, or cheap. It may have to be fabricated, and approved, before it can be shipped.

It is an inconvenience, and I understand people being very upset about the pump not being replaced immediately. But it is not a minor detail that can be remedied by duct tape and 1/25th HP fountain pumps from Home Depot.

Having worked in the fluid control devices industry for about 15 years a while ago, you can't imagine how complex pumps are. We are not talking about hardware store pumps.

 

I don't know what criteria have to be met for a pump to be installed in a water activity area on a ship. In the US, in water parks, they are usually UL and NSF listed, typically use three phase power (with 9, count 'em, 9 wires to hook up) and may need to include sensors or other "anti-suction devices" to keep from sucking peoples insides out. See this pub med article, for instance: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7966487 PubMed references drain covers (for residential installations) but for commercial applications local codes are often much more stringent.

 

I suspect this is a 15 HP water pump designed specifically for shipboard use with salt water, and is neither common, or cheap. It may have to be fabricated, and approved, before it can be shipped.

 

It is an inconvenience, and I understand people being very upset about the pump not being replaced immediately. But it is not a minor detail that can be remedied by duct tape and 1/25th HP fountain pumps from Home Depot.

I'm willing to bet its a small pool pump;)

Having worked in the fluid control devices industry for about 15 years a while ago, you can't imagine how complex pumps are. We are not talking about hardware store pumps.

 

I don't know what criteria have to be met for a pump to be installed in a water activity area on a ship. In the US, in water parks, they are usually UL and NSF listed, typically use three phase power (with 9, count 'em, 9 wires to hook up) and may need to include sensors or other "anti-suction devices" to keep from sucking peoples insides out. See this pub med article, for instance: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7966487 PubMed references drain covers (for residential installations) but for commercial applications local codes are often much more stringent.

 

I suspect this is a 15 HP water pump designed specifically for shipboard use with salt water, and is neither common, or cheap. It may have to be fabricated, and approved, before it can be shipped.

 

It is an inconvenience, and I understand people being very upset about the pump not being replaced immediately. But it is not a minor detail that can be remedied by duct tape and 1/25th HP fountain pumps from Home Depot.

Large commercial pool pumps are very common and immediately available in the U.S. I deal with a German company that has a U.S. Headquarters in Florida and they were recently able to provide me with 2 large pumps for a 150,000 gallon campground pool when the second pump stopped working during a camp week this August. The campground called me was able to replace the pump within 3 days so that the campers could continue to use the pool.

All that was required was for me to contact Speck pumps,( they do provide pumps for cruise ships), have 2 pumps shipped from closest distributer, I plumbed them in and made sure everything was working and met the safety requirements, (S.V.R.S. Switch, flow rates and the grate covers, pretty basic), and had an electrician wire the new pumps back in. ( this was 1 and 1/2 hour job for 2 pumps and 2 new variable speed pump controllers.

I am very surprised they are having issues dealing with the situation, maybe there is more that we don't know?

I also doubt that the cruise lines have the same safety regulations that we have in the states? We have regulations on how many people can be in a pool per square footage of pool surface area, life guard regulations and regulations requiring pools to be evacuated and tested depending on time and swimmer load to prevent water borne illness from spreading(crypto). we also have requirements to have Certified pool operators to maintain the pools. From my observations, it does not look like they have to abide by these same regulations?

Having worked in the fluid control devices industry for about 15 years a while ago, you can't imagine how complex pumps are. We are not talking about hardware store pumps.

I don't know what criteria have to be met for a pump to be installed in a water activity area on a ship. In the US, in water parks, they are usually UL and NSF listed, typically use three phase power (with 9, count 'em, 9 wires to hook up) and may need to include sensors or other "anti-suction devices" to keep from sucking peoples insides out. See this pub med article, for instance: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7966487 PubMed references drain covers (for residential installations) but for commercial applications local codes are often much more stringent.

I suspect this is a 15 HP water pump designed specifically for shipboard use with salt water, and is neither common, or cheap. It may have to be fabricated, and approved, before it can be shipped.

It is an inconvenience, and I understand people being very upset about the pump not being replaced immediately. But it is not a minor detail that can be remedied by duct tape and 1/25th HP fountain pumps from Home Depot.

I do not want to get into a dispute over pumps, but when the day is over a pump is a pump. All pumps that are to be installed around water are going to up to code. Heck any well or sump pump is up to code unless it is made in someones basement. Also I doubt very much that a 15hp pump is used to pump the amount of water needed to run a slide 20 or 30 feet up. I would guess a 5hp at most. Any electrician is going to able to wire a pump in less than 15 minutes if he knows what he is doing.

Again if it is pump that is holding up this slide then NCL is really dropping the ball. I suspect that it is something more involved, or at least I hope so.

To bad you are not going in February so it will be fixed for when I go.

Their is no way they are using a 15hp pool pump to pump water to the slide. The would be a massive overkill and your talking 12K-15K for the pump. They might be using that for the slide on the BA, GA etc.... but not for the small slide on the gem

When I was onboard last week I was told just about the same thing. The Future cruise consultant said they received the pump during the drydock but it is the wrong pump. Even though it works the water slide it is not up to code and therefore they cannot open it due to liability issues.

Did they tell you when the issue would be resolved? They ("NCL Concierge Services") told me that it would be working on the cruise after Christmas.

Don

Did they mention how much of an obc they are offering?

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Okay, let me jump in here a little.

While everyone is claiming that everything bought or supplied would have to be "up to code", do you know what code they must meet? It's not any US code. They must meet the European Electrical Code, and the requirements of the classification society. Therefore, they will most likely be manufactured in Europe. While a PP mentioned that European manufacturers do stock and supply equipment in the US, again, they will stock things that are used in the US, like a 440v motor, while the ship requires a 480v motor. It is not a "small pool pump".

One aspect that hasn't been touched on is the ISM code. This IMO required code requires the ship and company to basically document how it does every aspect of their business, have those procedures approved by third party auditors as meeting the safe management practices outlined by the IMO, and then ensure that the company follows them. One tiny aspect of the ISM will be the company's purchasing policies and procedures. This will not allow the ship to "go to the hardware store" and buy something. By being required to be purchased by the company's buyers, they know the legal requirements that the equipment must meet, know the suppliers that can supply the correct item, and source the item accordingly. Since the original pump was supplied incorrectly, the policy will be to have the supplier of the incorrect pump supply the correct one.

My guess is this is a $5-7000 pump, and even if they get it and get it installed, it has to be inspected by the class surveyor, as well as the USPH, so this is why it must be done in the US. Given today's business philosophy of "just in time" inventory, it is quite common for suppliers to not have an item "on the shelf" since this represents money that is not producing income.

With regards to pool regulations, the construction and operation of the pools must meet USPH regulations. While the pools do not require lifeguards, since this is a local or national requirement (and the ships are not US), the sanitation and safety of the pool design must meet the USPH VSP. This includes continuous monitoring, dosing, and recording of pool chlorine and Ph (and very few, if any, public pools in the US require this, mostly checking every few hours or so). The requirement for certified pool operators is not there, because the pools must be drained and refilled on a regular basis, which reduces the amount of chemicals needed, compared to many municipal pools that only drain when they need to paint the pool, and the water is in place for more than a year.

I have 40 years experience in maintaining marine equipment, and 4 years on cruise ships maintaining pools, and I would say that while getting a wrong pump delivered is disappointing, a couple of months delay to get the replacement, install it, and have a new installation like a water slide inspected by both class and USPH is pretty reasonable.

I have 40 years experience in maintaining marine equipment, and 4 years on cruise ships maintaining pools, and I would say that while getting a wrong pump delivered is disappointing, a couple of months delay to get the replacement, install it, and have a new installation like a water slide inspected by both class and USPH is pretty reasonable.

I was hoping you would share your expertise with us. It is often more complex than we think at first, and while I know some of the difficulties with public water parks in the US and longer lead times for pumps, I wasn't sure of the particulars for marine use.

That doesn't negate the disappointment of people who really looked forward to the new slide, and parents who are wondering how they are going to deal with very disappointed children who like the slide most of all on the ship. But it probably isn't a delay due to incompetence, lack of compassion, or saving money.

So it's a bummer, but not a conspiracy.

We can argue all we want but I just watched the mighty ships episode where they built the whole Breakaway ship in 18 months, its very surprising to me that they couldn't take care of this immediately?

We can argue all we want but I just watched the mighty ships episode where they built the whole Breakaway ship in 18 months, its very surprising to me that they couldn't take care of this immediately?

Didn't they renovate the whole old slide in less than two weeks during dry dock?

Something is very wrong here.

We know that NCL reads these Cruise Critic boards. Someone from NCL should clarify the situation and explain on these boards what happened and when it will be actually ready for use.

They do owe their future passengers at least this.

If the slide is not ready for my cruise in January for my two grandsons first cruise, I would like to know and switch to the Breakaway. I made the mistake of showing them photos of the slide and they were so excited!!

Don

Didn't they renovate the whole old slide in less than two weeks during dry dock?

Something is very wrong here.

We know that NCL reads these Cruise Critic boards. Someone from NCL should clarify the situation and explain on these boards what happened and when it will be actually ready for use.

They do owe their future passengers at least this.

If the slide is not ready for my cruise in January for my two grandsons first cruise, I would like to know and switch to the Breakaway. I made the mistake of showing them photos of the slide and they were so excited!!

 

Don

We will be on the Breakaway in a few weeks, my two boys, 9 and 10, can't wait to do the slides and the rope course. That is the highlight of the cruise for them. I know the rope course has limited hours and Am very happy that this ship's slides are operational.

I completely understand everyone's disappointment and truly hope it is resolved before you get on.

We can argue all we want but I just watched the mighty ships episode where they built the whole Breakaway ship in 18 months, its very surprising to me that they couldn't take care of this immediately?

Not sure how that has anything to do with replacing something that breaks.

There's been an adequate explanation here from someone who was involved, professionally, in exactly this area of a ship's maintenance. Occam's razor applies.

We can argue all we want but I just watched the mighty ships episode where they built the whole Breakaway ship in 18 months, its very surprising to me that they couldn't take care of this immediately?

Didn't they renovate the whole old slide in less than two weeks during dry dock?

Something is very wrong here.

We know that NCL reads these Cruise Critic boards. Someone from NCL should clarify the situation and explain on these boards what happened and when it will be actually ready for use.

They do owe their future passengers at least this.

If the slide is not ready for my cruise in January for my two grandsons first cruise, I would like to know and switch to the Breakaway. I made the mistake of showing them photos of the slide and they were so excited!!

 

Don

Looking at a "mighty ship" episode and thinking that is the entire building process is like thinking that reality tv is reality. How long was it between signing the contract to build the Breakaway and the time they started cutting steel for her? I don't know for sure, but most likely one to two years. Escape was ordered in 2012 with a delivery in 2015, for example. During that time, all the materials were ordered and staged, and just like a two week shipyard, requires months of preparation time. This stuff is not just sitting around on some warehouse shelf, waiting for a shipowner to buy it. In many cases, certain equipment is bought years before a contract to build a ship is signed, because the line knows they want to build a ship using that equipment and they know how long it takes the supplier to provide one, either due to construction time itself, or the fact that the supplier is backlogged.

Yes, not having the slide up and running on time is a disappointment for the passengers, but there is no huge conspiracy or plot to cut costs by delaying the delivery of parts. It is of no cost savings to the line to delay this. It was all paid for months before the shipyard, so it is actually costing the company more to have the buyers and shipping department deal with returning the wrong part and getting the new one, even if the supplier is paying the freight, these peoples' time costs money.

The cruise industry tries, far harder than any other sector of the marine industry, to provide a "zero down time" experience for the passenger (everything working all the time), through the number of engineering staff onboard, the value of the inventory of spare parts maintained onboard, and the capital expense of redundant equipment, but it does not always work out to be 100% zero downtime, because you have to balance financial responsibility with reliability. That is engineering.

I will say this again. A pump is a pump is a pump. Even if this pump had to be delivered from the farthest point on earth, it could be there in a day or two. I can guarantee that is not a one of a kind pump that needs to be made. This is a hot topic with a lot of people, the wheels should be turning faster.

Not that anyone cares but here is what I would do:

1-order the pump

2-get that pump to PR or St Thomas by the time the Gem docks there next

3-have installers and an electrician on board to do the work

4-Schedule an inspection in NY as soon as the Gem docks next

Before any one says that this is not doable, money talks and NCL has the money to fix this very quickly. Even an inspector could do this a drop of a hat if the right channels are used.

If a cruise ship,has a waterside pump break, they should have a means of repairing it in my opinion. Whether it is 440v or 480v on the ship, they should be able o get a new pump. If it needs to meet European requirements, have one sent from Europe. I have a 5hp variable speed German pump,on my pool in Ct.

Pumps go bad and there should be a plan in place to repair or replace pretty quickly. I am guessing that they are upgrading to a high efficiency pump so it is more complicated than just a swap but even if that is the case they should swap something else in while waiting for the upgrade.

I do believe that the pump would have to be greater than 5hp, it's not the amount of water but the lift that requires more energy. Most 5hp pumps that can pump 6,000 gallons per hour will not pump any water over 50' in a 3inch pipe.

Again, I do not blame people for being very surprised that with all their resources, they can't immediately repair or replace a broken pump?