McNaught says QV is an ocean liner, and a step forward from QE2.

[Alycidon]

Well, he would wouldn't he? It is company policy and no-one knows what he really thinks.

 

But, interesting that he was so off message elsewhere in the same talk.....

 

http://thechronicleherald.ca/Business/9013458.html

 

And even stranger that he saw fit to leave the talk.

 

Anyone heard anything more?

[guernseyguy]

Rather surprised that McNaught 'lost it' - but I guess we all get to have bad days.

 

What he said when asked "What sets Queen Victoria apart from a cruise ship" is:

 

“I think is the style of the interior for one, the quality of the interior. If you go look in the the atre, that theatre is just amazing. You wouldn’t get a better theatre on Broadway. It is absolutely outstanding in there and whatever you can do on Broadway or in London you can do in there."

 

Of course the theatre on Queen Victoria is much better than anything they ever had on 'true' ocean liners......to watch movies on Queen Mary they drew the curtains in the lounge...

 

I think this 'liner vs cruise ship' discussion has supplanted the medieval angst over 'how may angels can dance on the head of a pin'.......

 

Queen Victoria's job is cruising, she's a cruise ship. I'm quite happy to agree that her interiors are in a (faux) 'Ocean Liner' style....but putting Concorde interiors inside a 747 wouldn't make the 747 supersonic....

 

Peter

[Alycidon]

Queen Victoria's job is cruising, she's a cruise ship. I'm quite happy to agree that her interiors are in a (faux) 'Ocean Liner' style....but putting Concorde interiors inside a 747 wouldn't make the 747 supersonic....

 

Peter

 

Quite agree - and a nice comparison. I haven't yet travelled on QV but will do soon and have heard good things of her.

 

It is so silly Cunard persist in the ocean liner thing - they could fete Mary for being the only liner left doing line voyages, and then go back on Cunard's history of cruising - Laconia and Caronia II are obvious ships - to link back in to the history.

[Classiccruiser777]

Calling a cruise ship an ocean liner doesn't make it so. I mourn the loss of the QE2 (and the passing of the older ships) because the new ones, from an exterior design perspective, lack grace. They look like container ships with their short, stubby bows, squared off sterns and stacks of cabins piled high. And their performance at sea delivers what one would expect from such a design.

[guernseyguy]

And their performance at sea delivers what one would expect from such a design.

 

From personal experience on Queen Victoria in gales in the North Atlantic in January I'd say she is a fine sea boat and handled the bad weather very well - almost no rolling and little pitching - if anything she sort of 'shimmied' along with the odd wobble. In contrast, the Golden Princess on the North Atlantic in a mild swell in August was much less comfortable - with shudders reverberating down the hull as her flat bow hit waves. So in that sense, Queen Victoria is more 'liner-like' than other cruise ships I've sailed on.

[guernseyguy]

I haven't yet travelled on QV but will do soon and have heard good things of her. It is so silly Cunard persist in the ocean liner thing

 

She's a very fine cruise ship, with airy interiors - some who have been on other Vista-ships said it was difficult to believe that QV shared the same DNA.

 

As to the 'liners' thing, I blame the marketers, but on the other hand 'The Most Famous Ocean Liners in the World' is pithier than 'The Most Famous Ocean Liners and Cruise Ships in the World'. And I suspect 99% of her passengers do not care one jot whether she's a cruise ship or a ferry (which is what 'liners' were).

[Alycidon]

And I suspect 99% of her passengers do not care one jot whether she's a cruise ship or a ferry (which is what 'liners' were).

 

Quite. Would you do another trip? Acid test I suppose.....

[guernseyguy]

Quite. Would you do another trip? Acid test I suppose.....

 

Definitely yes. I'd be doing this January's winter crossing but have other commitments.....

[SeaMatesNYC]

From personal experience on Queen Victoria in gales in the North Atlantic in January I'd say she is a fine sea boat and handled the bad weather very well - almost no rolling and little pitching - if anything she sort of 'shimmied' along with the odd wobble. In contrast, the Golden Princess on the North Atlantic in a mild swell in August was much less comfortable - with shudders reverberating down the hull as her flat bow hit waves. So in that sense, Queen Victoria is more 'liner-like' than other cruise ships I've sailed on.

 

Ah, so perhaps there is some credit due to the much-maligned Vista hull??;)

[SeaMatesNYC]

And I suspect 99% of her passengers do not care one jot whether she's a cruise ship or a ferry (which is what 'liners' were).

 

If, as you have observed, she rides better than average in a tempestuous sea, and you only experience her from the interior (don't look back, if in port!) then I can't see what the issue is...but I am not a liner "junkie." Just a cruiser recently introduced to liners.;)

[patwell]

http://thechronicleherald.ca/Business/9013458.html

 

And even stranger that he saw fit to leave the talk.

 

What an odd thing for someone in his position to do....and in front of the media no less. What could so easily have been addressed with the usual corporate rhetoric he chose to draw attention to with his churlish behavior.

 

Embarrassing to him...embarrassing to Cunard, and in Halifax of all places. A most unprofessional reaction from someone who should know better. What WAS he thinking???

 

Cheers, Penny

 

Penny’s Affair to Remember QM2 Review

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=471053

November 10,2007...the “Affair” continued...did it ever!

 

October 16,2008...the “Affair” goes transatlantic as we sail in tandem with the grand QE2 on her final transatlantic voyage...what a thrill!

 

December 9, 2008....the “Affair” resumes again....Life is good!

 

July 30, 2009....transatlantic again...some “Affairs” just get better

 

August 7, 2009....the “Affair” goes on...this time “home” to Norway

 

2010....the “Affair” is indecisive, but booked for at least 10 days somewhere

[diamond-queen]

Do we all believe what is printed in the papers? We should all know that there are two sides to every story and since he is unable to comment for himself perhaps it would be better not to get so personal. This story does not sound like the Captain that we all know.

[Oslo Dutch]

Strange article really. Probably being caught up in compulsory flimsy corporate spin got the better of him. I wouldn't be able to do it for sure.

 

At least good to hear she's got good sea keeping qualities. I was beginning this month on Oceania's Nautica caught up in a Black Sea storm. Oh my.... that ship knowns how to roll properly...

 

Reint

[wripro]

I love how MacNaught uses the theatre as a barometer for what makes an ocean liner. Yes, the theatre is beautiful physically, but what makes theatre theatre is who is performing in it, not the luxury of the surroundings. By those standards.....FEH!!!!!!!

[Karanja]

From personal experience on Queen Victoria in gales in the North Atlantic in January I'd say she is a fine sea boat and handled the bad weather very well - almost no rolling and little pitching - if anything she sort of 'shimmied' along with the odd wobble. In contrast, the Golden Princess on the North Atlantic in a mild swell in August was much less comfortable - with shudders reverberating down the hull as her flat bow hit waves. So in that sense, Queen Victoria is more 'liner-like' than other cruise ships I've sailed on.

 

Having had the same guernseyguy experience on the same rough crossing, I agree wholeheartedly and was in fact, rather surprised. I am making the same January westbound in Jan 2010.

 

As far as Cunard calling QV an ocean liner (from earlier posts) and using crossing and voyage instead of cruise this and that, I no longer have much of a problem with the practice, as long as the user is not too emphatic about it. Cunard marketing is simply looking for ways - in this case creating a distinctive company vocabulary - to remove themselves from the pack. QV may not be a true ocean liner but the Cunard on board experience is often just that or close enough to it, especially when there are many days at sea.

[pumpkin 11]

i AGREE WITH ALL OF YOU. THE QV IS NOT A REAL "OCEAN-LINER" TO SPEEK OF, BUT IS PROBABLY CLOSER TO AN OCEAN LINER THAN ANY OTHER CRUISE SHIP IN SERVICE. THE ARTICLE IS RATHER STRANGE, I QUITE AGREE, BUT I DON'T THINK HE SHOULD OF COMPARED QV TO QE2, THEY ARE VERY DIFFERENT SHIPS BUILT IN VERY DIFFERENT TIME PERIODS, BUT THEY BOTH SEEM VERY NICE.

THANKS FOR THE ARTICLE.:) THE CAPS LOCK IS ON...:eek:;)

[Colin_Cameron]

I love how MacNaught uses the theatre as a barometer for what makes an ocean liner. .....

 

I don't know for sure but its possible the talk was taking place in the theatre and hence the most obvious example.

 

Regards, Colin.

[garigoun]

Just a thought. What qualifies a ship to be a ‘Liner’? Is it a product of what it is or what it does?

 

 

If QM2 never did another TA but spent ALL her time cruising the Caribbean or the Med. for example or doing world cruises would it still be a liner. If so why?

 

 

If a company only have one ship can it be classed as a ‘Line’?

 

 

I have sailed on many ships belonging to ‘lines’ Manchester Liners, Ellermans, Furness Withy, Bankline (Andrew Weir) etc. which did regular scheduled trips to and from specific parts of the world. Were they liners?

 

 

Does the term ‘liner’ simply encompass passenger ships?

 

 

Judging from the article referred to, it would seem to be just a matter of decor

 

And most importantly, does it matter?

Gari

[The Real PM]

Just a thought. What qualifies a ship to be a ‘Liner’? Is it a product of what it is or what it does?

 

 

 

If QM2 never did another TA but spent ALL her time cruising the Caribbean or the Med. for example or doing world cruises would it still be a liner. If so why?

 

 

If a company only have one ship can it be classed as a ‘Line’?

 

 

I have sailed on many ships belonging to ‘lines’ Manchester Liners, Ellermans, Furness Withy, Bankline (Andrew Weir) etc. which did regular scheduled trips to and from specific parts of the world. Were they liners?

 

 

Does the term ‘liner’ simply encompass passenger ships?

 

 

Judging from the article referred to, it would seem to be just a matter of decor

 

And most importantly, does it matter?

 

Gari

Not really!:)

[Host Sharon]

With regard to QV being "just another Vista Class ship", I am sure I read somewhere that Cunard had extra plates added to her hull to make it heavier and so better for TA's. Perhaps that is the reason she rides better than Grand Princess and other Vistas.

[Ray66]

According to John Maxtone-Graham in the book about QM2:

Every liner shares several essential characteristics: high speed, buttoned-up superstructure, a long bow deck, engines amidships. Lifeboats high above the waterline, deep draft, and a finely shaped hull. Few if any contemporary newbuildings meet those relentless criteria.

Admittedly, a few cruise ships share some ocean liner proclivities. For sixth Rotterdam, Payne modified Statendam’s basic hull shape into something approaching a liner. He added length to derive an economical turn of speed and made the hull less boxy. By so doing, he sacrificed some stability but made it up by increasing her beam. But those refinements did not make Rotterdam a real liner.

 

According to Wikipedia:

Today, the term is usually used to refer to a ship that is constructed to a higher standard than a normal cruise ship, enabling it to cross oceans such as the Atlantic and Pacific with passengers embarked in inclement weather conditions. Characteristics of true ocean liners include heavier plating, robust scantlings, powerful engines, and high freeboards making them more seaworthy than vessels designed for short sea routes or cruises in protected waters. The only ocean liner remaining in service in 2009 was Cunard Line's Queen Mary 2, following the retirement of her sister ship the Queen Elizabeth 2 in November 2008.

[guernseyguy]

With regard to QV being "just another Vista Class ship", I am sure I read somewhere that Cunard had extra plates added to her hull to make it heavier and so better for TA's. Perhaps that is the reason she rides better than Grand Princess and other Vistas.

 

Funnily enough the Strathdingle said they had added extra plates to the bow of the ARCADIA ("to enable long ocean crossings on world cruises") when they took over the hull of what was going to be the original Queen Victoria. Compared to other Vista Class ships her Captain Christopher Rynd said:

 

Cunard made certain changes to the design including lengthening the hull by 11 meters. By making her a little longer, they have actually made her ride a little higher in the water and at the same time given her better transverse stability. So, [for example] going through the Stockholm Archipelago yesterday, we were doing some quite tight turns at moderate speed and she hardly heeled at all [the way] other ships do. With that extra length, she has turned out to have this better transverse stability as well as a better ability to trim fore and aft . And for the same engine size [as the Vista-class ships], there is no loss of speed. Queen Victoria was not intended to do regularly-scheduled transatlantic crossings but rather as a complement to Queen Mary 2 that can do itineraries and visit ports which the larger, deeper drafted ship cannot. She is a lighter build of ship which gives her those unique advantages of maneuverability but does not translate into a heavy weather ship. She is not the QE2 or Queen Mary 2 in heavy seas. Every ship design is going to be a compromise in some degree and this ship does not have the same weight and scantlings or power that those ships have. In heavy weather, she will not perform as the QE2 and certainly not the Queen Mary 2, which is four or five times as comfortable as the QE2 in similar weather. So, she will not be as comfortable in the same weather as they will be. Where she does have the advantage is that she can access ports where they cannot because of the confines of the port or the depth of water in the port, this can go where they cannot so that is part of the compromise

 

Cunard reflect the different sea-keeping qualities in itinerary planning - so winter crossings are 8 nights instead of the 5 or 6 the QE2/QM2 are capable of. All this said, Queen Victoria is still faster than most liners ever were...

[pumpkin 11]

With regard to QV being "just another Vista Class ship", I am sure I read somewhere that Cunard had extra plates added to her hull to make it heavier and so better for TA's. Perhaps that is the reason she rides better than Grand Princess and other Vistas.

 

I think yes, you are right. they did add some heaver hull plates to give her a more 'Liner' feel. as regard to the QM2, even if she did do not do regular crossings she is still a liner, by the way she is built.

[Topsham]

With regard to QV being "just another Vista Class ship", I am sure I read somewhere that Cunard had extra plates added to her hull to make it heavier and so better for TA's. Perhaps that is the reason she rides better than Grand Princess and other Vistas.

 

 

I'm afraid that you simply cannot take a Vista hull, increase the plate thickness and call it a Cunard liner. It doesn't happen that way. From what I have heard, there were some questions regarding the bulbous bow on the Vista Class. On the Victoria there was some additional strengthing in the bulb and that was all. Same modification was make on the later ships in the class, NOORDAM and EURODAM.

 

She may well ride a bit better than the other Vistas due to her increased length, but I dounbt it would make any noticable difference.

 

 

P&O don't persist in caalling ARCADIA an 'ocean line'r yet she was to be the first QUEEN VICTORIA!!!!

 

It is all hype. I'm just thaankful that QUEEN VICTORIA was built because the vessel that became ARCADIA would have been a disappointment in many respects.

Stephen

[Topsham]

According to John Maxtone-Graham in the book about QM2:

Every liner shares several essential characteristics: high speed, buttoned-up superstructure, a long bow deck, engines amidships. Lifeboats high above the waterline, deep draft, and a finely shaped hull. Few if any contemporary newbuildings meet those relentless criteria.

Admittedly, a few cruise ships share some ocean liner proclivities. For sixth Rotterdam, Payne modified Statendam’s basic hull shape into something approaching a liner. He added length to derive an economical turn of speed and made the hull less boxy. By so doing, he sacrificed some stability but made it up by increasing her beam. But those refinements did not make Rotterdam a real liner.

 

According to Wikipedia:

Today, the term is usually used to refer to a ship that is constructed to a higher standard than a normal cruise ship, enabling it to cross oceans such as the Atlantic and Pacific with passengers embarked in inclement weather conditions. Characteristics of true ocean liners include heavier plating, robust scantlings, powerful engines, and high freeboards making them more seaworthy than vessels designed for short sea routes or cruises in protected waters. The only ocean liner remaining in service in 2009 was Cunard Line's Queen Mary 2, following the retirement of her sister ship the Queen Elizabeth 2 in November 2008.

 

 

I'm afraid that I cannot agree with John M-G. The VAST majority of ocean liners built in the last century posessed few , if any of the characteristics that he says makes an ocean liner. Even Wikipedia has got it wrong.

 

Take as an example the Holland America Line twins MAASDAM and RYNDAM of the early 1950. North Atlantic service with passengers and freight. 15,000 grt, 39 First Class pax, 854 Tourist Class. Single screw, steam turbine, 16.5 knots.... just over 500 ft length. Pure ocean liners and the MAASDAM as STEFAN BATORY was the last steam turbine liner in service on the North Atlantic!

 

Stephen