Greek Economy could affect travel plans

[mariado]

hello!!

 

Just don't believe what they say on tv or write in newspapers....sometimes they say too much..(well believe the half of them)

It's not that bad life here...

Really......

Have a great evening!

[Fblack]

Mariado:

 

Are you saying there are not that many people on strike? Or planes and trains are running? Or gasoline is plentiful? Or the Greek economy is not in trouble? Please explain. Thank you.

[mariado]

Hello FBLACK,

 

Yes this is what i am saying,

 

I just came back from Milan, No problems with plains or trains and i came with Aegian(Greek company)Not strikes here...

I don't know if they are going to have any...but till now nothing..

Gasoline price hasen't change..

Economy is a problem for sure 2 years now, but not only in Greece, all over Europe.

I don't know why they scare people so much in tv now...We have economical problems since 2008 ..Nothing change for good or worse.

Well sorry for my bad english!!!:)

Have a great evening and don't worry the islands will be nice in summer for vacations!

[Fblack]

Mariado:

 

Thanks for the update. The media always likes to show the worst. I was in Athens last October and saw no signs of government budget problems. I live in California and we have a 20 Billion dollar deficit. They are cutting back some services here too.

 

For most travelers, we fear any instability that could strand us in a foreign country.

[Fairfield Nana]

Mariado-- thanks for the great local perspective on the recent Euro problems. I also live in California and we are travelling on a Med cruise in a couple of months--it may not be so bad to be "stranded in a foreign country" for awhile!

[mariado]

I am glad that i helped you guys...

I just came back from a 11 days cruise with Costa (canary islands and Marroco)and i was watching italian tv(when i was there) saying that Greece is in a terrible crisis...So i called home, i was really afraid i thought that something happened when i was away but nothing really, just media....

The situation is the same the last 2 years...

[TLCOhio]

I am glad that i helped you guys...

I just came back from a 11 days cruise with Costa (canary islands and Marroco)and i was watching italian tv(when i was there) saying that Greece is in a terrible crisis...So i called home, i was really afraid i thought that something happened when i was away but nothing really, just media....

The situation is the same the last 2 years...

 

The media will over-play and over-hype certain stories. This is another example. We will see in the coming weeks and months how this all plays out as the Greek government and others are trying to impose certain "belt-tightening". BUT, this involves pay-cuts to bloated government payrolls and higher taxes. That will not be "appreciated" within Greece. This story is just starting. Lots to been seen on how it all works out and impacts tourists this summer.

 

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

[TLCOhio]

On Monday afternoon, here is the update from the lead part of the story by the New York Times reporter in Athens: "The European Union’s commissioner for monetary affairs, Olli Rehn, called on Greek authorities on Monday to announce additional austerity measures, noting that recent wage freezes and tax increases would not be enough to reduce the country’s budget deficit and tackle a debt crisis that is threatening the entire euro zone."

 

Last week, the head of Greece’s main labor union, with more than two million members, said the earlier announcement of cuts was “a cause for war”. More cuts and tax hikes will add to the tension. You can read the full NYTimes story at:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/02/business/global/02greece.html?hp

 

Terry in Ohio

[rich_cathybrock]

I appreciate your postings and insight into the complexities of this situation.

 

Many thanks for the detailed information.

[TLCOhio]

I appreciate your postings and insight into the complexities of this situation. Many thanks for the detailed information.

 

THANKS, Cathy & Rich, for the nice comments! Coming in tomorrow's Wall Street Journal will be a very detailed story that goes into the main aspects of how the Greek government has had a long history of estimating a somewhat small budget deficit that balloons by the end of their fiscal year to a much larger pile of red ink. The story has detailed charts and figures for Greece and the other "Southern Europe" nations that have been at the center of these issues.

 

The story is headlined: "Europe's Original Sin: National Leaders Ignored Greece's Soaring Debt for Years". I don't know that everyone can connect to the full story, but here is that link:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704548604575097800234925746.html?mod=WSJ_hps_MIDDLESecondNews

 

The lead paragraph says: "Europeans are blaming financial transactions arranged by Wall Street for bringing Greece to the brink of needing a bailout. But a close look at the country's finances over the nearly 10 years since it adopted the euro shows not only that Greece was the principal author of its debt problems, but also that fellow European governments repeatedly turned a blind eye to its flouting of rules." The story also notes the "years of overspending" by Greece and that the euro "countries made a pact aimed at preventing a free-spending state from undermining the common currency." The problem has been that there has been "no teeth" or enforcement to stop such overspending. The story notes that Greece "wasn't alone in breaking the euro zone's rules: A majority of other euro-zone members also failed to meet the debt and deficit requirements at least once over several years". Greece has been the most extreme in its use of red ink. One example cited was: "Late last year, the Greek government set in motion its current crisis by increasing its 2009 budget-deficit estimate, initially 3.7% of GDP, to nearly 13% of GDP."

 

Interesting, but sad story to follow. Terry in Ohio

[Fairfield Nana]

The Wall Street Journal is just another newspaper--their objectivity and credibility is no better/worse than many others.

[Fairfield Nana]

Ditto with NY Times. I appreciate the effort to keep us all informed, but hope no one is making hard decisions based solely on a newspaper article.

[numbersix]

Throughout the entire process, from creating bubble(s), to the credit crisis and the unravelling of the global financial sytem, to central bank/government intervention, to massive monetary, and then, fiscal stimulus, to shaky recovery, to the current fallout, it has been fascinating to watch the human aspects of it all. It has been an absolutely fascinating study in human nature. All this has been seen before at some point before. The blame game is particularly acute during crises such as this--someone is always trying to lay the blame somewhere else: the government blames Wall Street... some blame the Fed...Wall Street blames the regulators...everyone blames the government...everyone blames each other...some blame the haplessly over-leveraged consumers...the Brits blame Iceland...Iceland blames the Brits...Obama blames Bush...the left blames the right, and vice versa...big business blames the unions...unions blame free trade (or is it 'unfree trade'?)...America blames cheap goods from China...China blames America's profligate spending ('but please don't stop buying our big screen TVs!")...and now Greece is blaming the big bad bankers (Wall Street) for 'forcing' them to borrow money that they can't afford to pay back.

 

Absolutely fascinating.

 

And in the end, unfortunately, politicians, being politicians, will do what is politically expedient--they will, with very few (very, very few) exceptions, take the easy way out. There are very few Paul Volkers around, with the courage to do what must be done (as the Fed did in the early 1980s).

 

And it's not over yet...not by a long shot...stay tuned.

[rich_cathybrock]

 

And in the end, unfortunately, politicians, being politicians, will do what is politically expedient--they will, with very few (very, very few) exceptions, take the easy way out. There are very few Paul Volkers around, with the courage to do what must be done (as the Fed did in the early 1980s).

 

And it's not over yet...not by a long shot...stay tuned.

 

If you run for President, I'm voting for you! I agree with your assessment of Mr. Volker (and everything else you have said in your post).

 

He has been "consulting" to the current administration, but has been greatly underutilized, yet it is commonly stated that he is one of the few individuals with the savvy to actually help sort out what is right and wrong with our own financial situation in the US.

 

Someone earlier admonished me for "making the conversation political". I admit I was rather stunned by evident lack of rationale in that statement. We are talking about a country, its economy, and the effect that long-term debt has culminated in for these good people.

 

I am not sure in what context other than a financial/political one concerned individuals would discuss such a situation, but then rational discourse (and global finance for that matter) were never my core competencies.

 

Your post makes a whole lot of sense...

[numbersix]

If you run for President, I'm voting for you!

 

Someone earlier admonished me for "making the conversation political". I admit I was rather stunned by evident lack of rationale in that statement. We are talking about a country, its economy, and the effect that long-term debt has culminated in for these good people.

 

...

 

I'm flattered, but:

 

1) I'm just not cut out for the political game, as I'm much too prone to speak my mind, and, as a result, too many people end up hearing what they probably don't want (or like) to hear; and

 

2) I'm ruled out anyway, as I reside in the country of my birth--the home of the 2010 gold-medal-winning Olympic hockey teams (both Men's and Women's)(!!!)

 

I believe the earlier admonishment against making it a 'political' discussion was more directed at a comment about, in particular, "corrupt (socialist) government"(s)--I can see how that might be, to some, at least slightly inflammatory. My point is not directed at "corrupt" this, or "corrupt" that, but just that politicians (whether right-wing or left-wing, good/bad, nice/not nice, smart/stupid, corrupt/not corrupt) (although I'd prefer them to be not corrupt) are pretty much the same. It's all about power and influence, and how to hold on to it, and somewhere in there, even with the best of intentions, what's actually best is often forgotten, or ignored. Then, of course, there's the debate about what is actually the correct course to take. I think that's where we are now--around the globe. It will, I fear, become an intense debate, even battle, between opposing political and national, viewpoints. And it will get nasty--much nastier than we've seen so far. Most of these people, unfortunately (the Greeks, the Icelanders, people who have lost their retirment dreams, et cetera) have no idea what has, or is about to, hit them. Sad, in many cases, but the question now is--how does the problem get fixed. It won't be easy.

 

 

 

Me--I just can't wait for the mayhem we'll see when the G-20 meet here in Toronto next June (my office is located in the already quaintly named 'exclusion zone'). Should be fun:rolleyes:.

[numbersix]

If anyone's interested, a great book on the topic is the recently published, "This Time is Different--Eight Centuries of Financial Folly". Nice, light reading for the Promenade deck!

Kevin

[Fblack]

And more union strikes are scheduled.

Greek unions in new strike call against austerity

"ATHENS, March 4 (Reuters) - Greece's main private and public sector labour unions called a 3-hour work stoppage for Friday, stepping up opposition to new austerity measures designed to stem a debt crisis that has shaken the euro zone....(public sector union) ADEDY has already called a 24-hour stoppage for March 16.

[url]http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSLDE6230UD20100304[/url]

[TLCOhio]

[quote name='Fblack']And more union strikes are scheduled.
Greek unions in new strike call against austerity
"ATHENS, March 4 (Reuters) - Greece's main private and public sector labour unions called a 3-hour work stoppage for Friday, stepping up opposition to new austerity measures designed to stem a debt crisis that has shaken the euro zone....(public sector union) ADEDY has already called a 24-hour stoppage for March 16.
[url]http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSLDE6230UD20100304[/url][/QUOTE]

[COLOR="Blue"][SIZE="3"][FONT="Georgia"]Here are more details on the strikes today in Greece. With the headline [I][B]"Greek, Portuguese Workers Strike, Protest Against Deficit Cuts"[/B][/I], Bloomberg News had this opening part of the story: [I]"Greek demonstrators took over the Finance Ministry building in central Athens, blocking streets in the city center, and Portuguese schools and hospitals were shut as unions stepped up protests against government deficit cuts. In Athens, about 200 members of the PAME union group, aligned with the Communist Party of Greece, occupied the six- story ministry building today while protesters took over the nearby General Accounting Office, according to a police spokeswoman. Another group blocked a central road in downtown Athens, snarling traffic."[/I]

You can get the full story at:
[url]http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aLezIy0SccG0[/url]

Some German legislators are wanting Greece to sell off certain government-owned businesses and unoccupied islands in order to provide more capital to back up any future loans. THANKS for the other comments and clips! I don't trust any and all media reports, but these issues will continue to get attention as it is a serious issue. [B][I]The Greek officials know and are admitting they have a serious problem.[/I][/B] We are several months off from the peak tourism period in that area. That gives time to make the fix and/or adjustments. Terry in Ohio[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR]

[cruisemom42]

[quote name='TLCOhio'][SIZE=3][FONT=Georgia][COLOR=blue][B][I]The Greek officials know and are admitting they have a serious problem.[/I][/B] We are several months off from the peak tourism period in that area. That gives time to make the fix and/or adjustments. Terry in Ohio[/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE][/quote]


Let's hope that they do!

[numbersix]

Hi--I posted this on my Roll Call (Ruby Princess, 09 Aug 10). Thought some people here would be interested.

Kevin


[IMG]http://boards.cruisecritic.com/images/icons/icon1.gif[/IMG] [B]Greece[/B]
Hi all:

I've posted this on the Greece Ports Board, and thought I would here, as well. It's a very good synopsis of the situation in Greece. As Greece comprises 5 stops on our cruise, it may us in gaining an appreciation of their current circumstances, and what they're facing.

[URL="http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,681705,00.html"][COLOR=#de203e]http://www.spiegel.de/international/...681705,00.html[/COLOR][/URL]

Kevin
[RIGHT][IMG]http://boards12.cruisecritic.com/images/misc/progress.gif[/IMG][/RIGHT]

[TLCOhio]

[quote name='cruisemom42']Let's hope that they do![/QUOTE]

[COLOR="Blue"][SIZE="3"][FONT="Georgia"]I was at breakfast yesterday in Akron with a good friend who has visited Greece often and has a long, close family history there. The picture he paints, plus what I have read from others, is that the current Greek culture is not one that embraces "responsibility" and long-term, sound financial planning very well. It is very much a current culture of getting government jobs, tax dodges, living for today, etc. We love the Greek people and their great history. BUT, [B][I]fixing their current fiscal mess, will not come quick or easy.[/I][/B] The country also suffered lots during the hundreds of years of control by outside forces, including the Turks, Venice and Rome. There is a real "culture clash" between how certain people in Germany and the USA would handle these types of financail issues versus those in Greece now. We can hope, but my Greek friend was suggesting it will take more than just added loans and good wishes. [B][I]Tourism is still the big industry for their economy and those visiting there should hopefully not be too inconvenienced.[/I][/B]

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR]

[CintiPam]

Hope you are right, Terry. Right now, the strikes are very discouraging to tourists planning to visit in March. Hard to spend one's tourist dollars, or I guess I should say Euros, if your plane cannot land.:)

[TLCOhio]

[quote name='CintiPam']Hope you are right, Terry. Right now, the strikes are very discouraging to tourists planning to visit in March. Hard to spend one's tourist dollars, or I guess I should say Euros, if your plane cannot land.:)[/QUOTE]

[COLOR="Blue"][SIZE="3"][FONT="Georgia"]Without tourism, there is very little, if any, real economy left in Greece. They know it. As my Greek friend told me yesterday in Akron, you can't make that much money just growing olives. [B][I]Tourism is vital to keep what's left and still alive in Greece!!! [/I][/B] They'll play around in March, have some strikes, patch it up, say it solved and deal with the bigger tourism season starting in late May or June. Borrowing more money for November's bills can be done in late October. Relax! No worry!

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR]

[rich_cathybrock]

Now I'm worried! We are due to be there in late September. :eek: At least we arrive on a ship (not a plane) and two of the ports (Mykonos and Santorini) are tendered. Would be a shame if we missed Athens or Kataklon a due to inability to dock from striking....

[TLCOhio]

[quote name='rich_cathybrock']Now I'm worried! We are due to be there in late September. :eek: At least we arrive on a ship (not a plane) and two of the ports (Mykonos and Santorini) are tendered. Would be a shame if we missed Athens or Kataklon a due to inability to dock from striking....[/QUOTE]

[COLOR="Blue"][SIZE="3"][FONT="Georgia"]Something will work out for summer and those visiting in the fall, but this story will continue to be in news. Here is the latest from the AP newswire today: Headline, [B][I]"Merkel: No financial help for Greece"[/I][/B]. The top part of the story: [I]"German Chancellor Angela Merkel has avoided giving debt-plagued Greece a commitment of financial assistance, as Athens was rattled by more strikes and violent protests by unions outraged by harsh economic austerity measures."[/I] Later in the story, they noted: [I]"Merkel added that her country could help Greece with its expertise and in other ways. Strict fiscal policy has helped propel Germany to Europe's biggest economy."[/I] You can see this full story at:
[url]http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iXUJvBknZVGqsBenIusBgBvWj5WQD9E8UCRG0[/url]

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR]