Greek Economy could affect travel plans

[nordski]

Don't get too worried, Cathy, it will "all work out". That's part of the Greek-Italian philosophy for life. As a Greek friend told me recently, "Long-term planning in Greece is about thinking where you'll eat lunch that day." They have a different approach and style there in the Med. Tourism is important to what's left of their economies. Some of the strikes are for local "theater" as the unions battle to hang on to the many perks that used to have in better times. They'll put on the "show" with some strikes, but they do need tourist to come and spend money there. Below are a couple of more recent news stories this am.

 

From the Reuters newswire in the last few minutes, they have this headline: "Euro tumbles on debt woes" with these highlights: "The euro hit an 18-month low versus the dollar and European shares fell sharply on Friday on speculation that fiscal austerity in some euro zone countries may stifle economic growth. European authorities announced a massive debt safety net for Greece, Spain and Portugal this week, but investors remain skeptical whether those countries can take the pain of overhauling their poor public finances. 'The euro hasn't derived any benefits from any budget cuts from Spain and Portugal,' said Chris Turner, head of FX strategy at ING, which forecasts the euro will be at $1.15 in six months."

 

From the Business Week/Bloomberg News, they have this headline: "Euro Drops to Less Than $1.25 for First Time Since March 2009" with these highlights: "The euro fell below $1.25 for the first time in 14 months as Deutsche Bank AG said Greece may struggle to repay debt and El Pais reported that France threatened to leave the euro during talks that led to this week’s almost-$1 trillion bailout. The 16-nation currency was poised for its fourth straight weekly drop against its U.S. counterpart as Deutsche Bank AG Chief Executive Officer Josef Ackermann said Greece will require 'incredible efforts' to repay its debts and may not be able to do so in full."

 

There are more details from these full stories:

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE64C5NJ20100514

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601100&sid=aA1RHpFPLyI4

 

THANKS! Terry in Ohio

Great comment.

 

I guess if you live in a culture as old theirs, a lot is just "short-term noise". Also, as a tourist, I have always found the Greeks unfailingly polite. As stated, much of the activity is "street theatre" although there may well be serious outcomes.

 

Watched economist Nouriel Roubini suggest that Greece may well have to leave the Eurozone so as to have an orderly default on some of its debt. This might well appeal to both the Northern EU members and the Southern tier.

[numbersix]

El Pais reported that France threatened to leave the euro during talks that led to this week’s almost-$1 trillion bailout.

 

That's the funniest thing I heard all week!!!:p Talk about the theatre of the absurd!!!:rolleyes: ( I can just imagine the howls of laughter from the Germans!)

 

Some of us might remember what a strong currency the French Franc was, what with the French being such frugal spenders and all!! (NOT!).

I've been a keen observer of all things French for many years, especially their economy, and I'm still convinced they do it with smoke and mirrors! But then again....don't they (we) all?

 

 

Can't wait until our Ruby Med cruise in August:)

[cruisemom42]

Here is a report from someone who was in Athens (on Princess cruise) today, May 14:

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=24426423&postcount=168

 

No troubles at all, which I'm sure would be the case on any day without scheduled strikes or protests. Later in the thread she says that they will be in Athens again on May 20, the next scheduled strike day; I'm sure she'll report (if they get off the ship).

[numbersix]

Here is a report from someone who was in Athens (on Princess cruise) today, May 14:

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=24426423&postcount=168

 

No troubles at all, which I'm sure would be the case on any day without scheduled strikes or protests. Later in the thread she says that they will be in Athens again on May 20, the next scheduled strike day; I'm sure she'll report (if they get off the ship).

 

 

Thanks for passing that along--interesting.

 

Kevin

[TLCOhio]

Great comment. I guess if you live in a culture as old theirs, a lot is just "short-term noise". Also, as a tourist, I have always found the Greeks unfailingly polite. As stated, much of the activity is "street theatre" although there may well be serious outcomes. Watched economist Nouriel Roubini suggest that Greece may well have to leave the Eurozone so as to have an orderly default on some of its debt. This might well appeal to both the Northern EU members and the Southern tier.

 

Appreciate your added comments and thoughts, plus the insights by others. As of this morning, the euro is at $1.236, per the Wall Street Journal. Others news stories indicate more problems and pressures on the euro and the serious questions of whether this type of multi-country currency can be sustained and held together. The euro is not going to "disappear" overnight, but the tensions and challenges are huge, based on these stories and the euro's downward slide. Current travelers should NOT panic or scrub their upcoming plans.

 

From the Associated Press newswire late yesterday, they have this headline: "Growth, rate worries drive euro near 4-year low" with these highlights: "The euro sank to near a four-year low against the dollar Friday on renewed worries over the European debt crisis. The stronger dollar could spell trouble for a U.S. economy still recovering from a deep recession. A stronger dollar against the currency used by 16 nations in Europe would translate into cheaper European vacations for American travelers. But it would hurt U.S. exports because American-made products would be more expensive in those markets. The euro slid to a 19-month low of $1.2355 in late trading in New York, close to what would have been the lowest point in four years against the dollar."

 

From the Telegraph newspaper in London, they had this headline yesterday: "President Nicolas Sarkozy 'threatened to pull France out of euro' " with these highlights: "President Nicolas Sarkozy slammed his fist on the table and threatened to pull France out of the euro at a meeting of European leaders deciding Greece's aid package last Friday, according to Spain's El Pais newspaper. Sarkozy demanded a 'commitment from everyone to suppport Greece...or France would reconsider its position in the euro,' according to one source cited by El Pais. Another source present at the meeting between Zapatero and his party members and cited by the paper said: 'Sarkozy ended up banging his fist on the table and threatening to leave the euro...This forced Angela Merkel to give in and reach an agreement.' "

 

From Forbes/AP, they have this headline: "Trichet: economy in deepest crisis since WWII" with these highlights: "The President of the European Central Bank was quoted Saturday as saying that he still sees Europe's economy in its deepest crisis since World War II, or even World War I. German news weekly Der Spiegel reported that Jean-Claude Trichet said that since the beginning of the financial crisis in 2008 'we have experienced and we are experiencing really dramatic times.' "

 

From the Reuters/CNBC News, they have this headline: "White House's Volcker: Future of Euro in Doubt" with these highlights: "Europe's debt troubles could undermine its currency, White House Economic Adviser Paul Volcker said on Thursday. Volcker, a former Federal Reserve chairman and a widely respected economist, told students at the London School of Economics that it was difficult to have a common currency without a common government. 'Initially I thought the euro was a good idea,' Volcker said. Volcker said the United States faces the same problem as other countries with large deficits and will likely have to have a debate about the tax structure to pay for them."

 

Here are the details with the full stories:

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hiVtV2zuQIAFn_h-JnQjvVSfPTRgD9FMTFTO0

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/expat/expatnews/7723782/President-Nicolas-Sarkozy-threatened-to-pull-France-out-of-euro.html

http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2010/05/15/business-eu-europe-financial-crisis_7608174.html?boxes=Homepagebusinessnews

http://www.cnbc.com/id/37144724

 

THANKS! Terry in Ohio

[MANURULES]

From the Reuters/CNBC News, they have this headline: "White House's Volcker: Future of Euro in Doubt" with these highlights: "Europe's debt troubles could undermine its currency, White House Economic Adviser Paul Volcker said on Thursday. Volcker, a former Federal Reserve chairman and a widely respected economist, told students at the London School of Economics that it was difficult to have a common currency without a common government. 'Initially I thought the euro was a good idea,' Volcker said. Volcker said the United States faces the same problem as other countries with large deficits and will likely have to have a debate about the tax structure to pay for them."

 

THANKS! Terry in Ohio

 

 

I have to agree the comment about the French is hilarious.

 

I also greatly respect and pay great attention to the opinions of Paul Volcker,the only voice of sanity in the last 30 some years in the US.

The rest of them from Ronnie and Greenspan to the last of the lot now,were/are just a bunch of self serving morons with an agenda.

[ShipOFools]

The French have nothing on the Germans for off the wall:

 

http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=113840

 

German politicians say Greece must sell property, companies and uninhabited islands to raise money for debt payments, the newspaper Bild reported.

“A bankrupt party must use everything he has to make money and serve his creditors,” said Josef Schlarmann, a member of Chancellor Angela Merkel’s Christian Democratic Union. “Greece owns buildings, companies and several uninhabited islands, which can now be used to repay debt.”

Greece must “radically part with company shares and also sell property, for example uninhabited islands,” said Frank Schaeffler, financial expert of Germany’s Free Democratic Party, as cited by Bild newspaper.

"The chancellor cannot promise Greece any help," Schaeffler told Bild in a story under the headline: "Sell your islands, you bankrupt Greeks! And sell the Acropolis too!"

"The Greek government has to take radical steps to sell its property -- for example its uninhabited islands," Schaeffler told Germany's best-selling daily newspaper.

Germany has rejected the idea for setting up a European fund to help Greece, saying it is not a solution to Athens' debt problems. Opinion polls show Germans are overwhelmingly against taxpayers bailing out Greece.

The Greek government approved an austerity package of tax rises and spending cuts worth EUR 4.8 B, hoping to convince financial markets that it can pay off its debts and persuade European leaders it is doing enough.

The measures include raising VAT to 21% from the current rate of 19%, and cutting civil servant bonus payments during holidays - which has annoyed union leaders.

But the austerity measures already proposed - such as freezing public sector pay, raising taxes and changing the pension system - have provoked huge street protests.

[MANURULES]

Well,that's resurrecting the dead,and the brain dead.

Not that it will save them from default,but populous drivel was not taken seriously ,thank God.

Its funny that Franky did not have anything to say when some offered to do just that ,

when and only when Germany stops refusing to pay war reparations to the tens of thousands of Greeks

that were sent to work and die in Germany by the Naz.s and our bloodthirsty neighbors to the north.

The situation in Greece will take a long time to change for the better,if it does.

The new measures ( that are actually a lot more onerous than the post above indicates e.g the VAT is actually 23% now)

will test the people hard.Its very early to tell how state income,and thus ability to repay,will be affected by the expected economic slowdown.

Who knows maybe for us travelers it might lead to a less expensive vacation.

The strikes will continue for a couple of months at least ,and this is what tourists have to worry about.

It looks like the one on the 20th will affect cruise visitors greatly,as all the sites will be closed.

[cruisemom42]

It has just been posted on the Princess board that the Ruby Princess, which was scheduled to be in port in Piraeus on May 20, will now skip Athens entirely on that day. The ship will remain in Venice until 10 pm (the previous stop) and will sail straight through the next day to arrive in Kusadasi (the stop after Athens).

 

Here is a link to the announcement on the Princess website:

 

http://www.princess.com/news/article.jsp?newsArticleId=na1102

 

So it appears that Princess, at least, has taken quick action to avoid being in Athens on the strike day. Other cruise lines may do the same on scheduled strike days that are upcoming.

 

If anyone has private tours arranged, you may want to check with your contact to find out about cancellations.

[ShipOFools]

It has just been posted on the Princess board that the Ruby Princess, which was scheduled to be in port in Piraeus on May 20, will now skip Athens entirely on that day. The ship will remain in Venice until 10 pm (the previous stop) and will sail straight through the next day to arrive in Kusadasi (the stop after Athens).

 

Here is a link to the announcement on the Princess website:

 

http://www.princess.com/news/article.jsp?newsArticleId=na1102

 

So it appears that Princess, at least, has taken quick action to avoid being in Athens on the strike day. Other cruise lines may do the same on scheduled strike days that are upcoming.

 

If anyone has private tours arranged, you may want to check with your contact to find out about cancellations.

 

Dang. We are due there June 15. Any word of strikes on June 15? Maybe Princess can go to Crete instead if they can plan ahead. I wonder if they will cut out Athens all Summer....

[cruisemom42]

Dang. We are due there June 15. Any word of strikes on June 15? Maybe Princess can go to Crete instead if they can plan ahead. I wonder if they will cut out Athens all Summer....

 

I doubt they will cut out Athens all summer as Ruby Princess just called there last week and there were no problems. However, I strongly suspect that cruise lines will investigate other options IF there is a large general strike called on the day they are scheduled to be in Athens. The May 20 strike would close down almost all major tourist sites.

 

People are pretty active in posting strike dates, so if you keep checking here (and I'd also advise checking Tripadvisor's Athens forum), I'm sure you'll hear if anything is scheduled for June 15.

 

(P.S. -- Best of luck and bon voyage; I wish we were going with you!!)

[hubofhockey]

We have a tour with Paul set up for July 7. As soon as we hear that a strike is scheduled for that day, we'll cancel with him. If Princess follows through and stops in Athens, we'll do a DIY.

[BigGuy25]

The Ruby Princess is currently embarking today in Venice and has announced it will remain in Venice longer than planned and then bypass Athens (they were due in port on May 20th ... the next "strike" day) and will sail directly to Kusadasi. Too bad for those who would have experienced the Acropolis, Plaka, etc. for the first time!!

[cruisemom42]

The Ruby Princess is currently embarking today in Venice and has announced it will remain in Venice longer than planned and then bypass Athens (they were due in port on May 20th ... the next "strike" day) and will sail directly to Kusadasi. Too bad for those who would have experienced the Acropolis, Plaka, etc. for the first time!!

 

As noted in my post above....#234.

[Fblack]

A planned June 2 strike in Spain has been delayed until June 8th. I wonder if Princess will cancel any planned stops to Spain that day?

 

"May 17 (Reuters) - Spanish unions decided to delay a one-day public sector strike to protest wage cuts to June 8... .Last week the government said it would cut wages for state employees and slash investment spending, sparking union anger. "

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSLDE64G1HP20100517

[rich_cathybrock]

I appreciate the insight, and it is indeed contrary to the Greek way of life to forecast out that far in advance.

In the meantime, your daily consolidated news updates are highly informative, and it seems from some of the threads that others who are in the region now are in fact enjoying their time in Greece, and that other than on the planned strike days, Athens continues to be the same charming and historically rich place ithsa been for centuries!

I continue to remain cautiously optimistic that this will be sorted out, but it will take a lot of pain and hard work to get there.

I agree with everyone on this thread who has stated that the US can learn a lot from the goings on there. Maybe there is yet some good to come of all this...

[Fblack]

Greek unions have re-confirmed more strikes coming in June.

ATHENS
Tue May 18, 2010: Greek unions warn of more strikes, protests in June

"Greece's main labour unions said on Tuesday they would carry out more strikes in June to protest against a pension reform bill they say will further burden the poor who have been hit by government austerity measures.... "If the pension bill is left unchanged, we will certainly protest in June. And if the government takes more harmful measures the summer will also be a period of labour action,"

[url]http://uk.reuters.com/article/idUKTRE64H3M820100518[/url]

[cruisemom42]

Just a reminder that virtually no insurance plans are covering delays due to the "civil unrest" (as they call it) in Athens at the moment. If your flight is delayed or the airport closed due to a general strike, any expenses you incur (hotels, getting to another port if you miss the ship) will [U]not[/U] be covered. (With the possible exception of those who purchased insurance in advance of the current actions.)

I suggest that, if possible, you build in another day or two of travel time if you are only planning to arrive the day before your cruise starts from Piraeus. Also be prepared for additional expenses that may occur. You may want to have a plan in mind as to how to get to your next port if the worst happens. Or where to spend the night if you can't get home the day of arrival in Piraeus, if your cruise ends there.

Hopefully it will not be a factor on your cruise, but it is better to be prepared!

[Fblack]

The May 20th strike is under way.

May 20, 1020 Greece Paralyzed In 24-Hour Workers' Strike

"Normal life across Greece came to a standstill Thursday following a 24-hour strike called by labor unions, the latest over the austerity measures proposed by the Socialist government in its bid to salvage the debt-stricken nation.

The strike began at midnight Wednesday local time severely disrupting road, air and water transport services. Government offices, educational institutions and hospitals, barring emergency services, remained closed. The unions claimed that around 100,000 workers had joined the strike."


[url]http://www.rttnews.com/Content/GeneralNews.aspx?Id=1311519&SM=1[/url]

[numbersix]

[quote name='Fblack']

May 20, 1020 Greece Paralyzed In 24-Hour Workers' Strike

"Normal life across Greece came to a standstill Thursday following a 24-hour strike called by labor unions, the latest over the austerity measures proposed by the Socialist government in its bid to salvage the debt-stricken nation.

The strike began at midnight Wednesday local time severely disrupting road, air and water transport services. Government offices, educational institutions and hospitals, barring emergency services, remained closed. The unions claimed that around 100,000 workers had joined the strike."


[URL]http://www.rttnews.com/Content/GeneralNews.aspx?Id=1311519&SM=1[/URL][/quote]

Thanks for the update!

Just noticing how the news can distort things....the unions claim that, in response to a call for a national strike, that "100,000 workers" had joined the strike. Let's look at the math...

Population: 11,306,183
Workforce: 4,900,000

Strikers: 100,000

% of workforce striking in the "National Strike": 2.04%

Not exactly the general strike of 1919.

I guess that most Greek workers have better things to do.

One might think that "demonstration fatigue" is setting in.


Kevin

[TLCOhio]

[COLOR="Blue"][SIZE="3"][FONT="Georgia"]In checking various news sources this afternoon, I don't think that a new date has been set for the next strike in Athens or Greece. [I][B]Any different or better info?[/B][/I] The news focus now seems to be on stopping the "fiscal bleeding" that has rocked markets there in Europe and in other parts of the world. During the past week, the euro has varied, on a roller-coaster from $1.29 down to $1.22. Hopefully for cruise visitors there, it will be calmer. Lots of hotel vacancies now.

From the der Spiegel magazine today, they have this headline: [B][I]"Crisis Hits Greek Tourism as Cancellations Soar"[/I][/B] with these highlights: [I]"The Greek tourism industry, which was hoped to contribute to the country's recovery, is in crisis. Hundreds of hotels are for sale, and visitor numbers are in sharp decline. The cash-strapped government is hardly in a position to help. Reservations are down by an average of about 30 percent nationwide since last summer, and experts expect a large number of cancellations. The Association of Greek Tourism Enterprises (SETE) reported that in the first 24 hours after the general strike in early May, more than 5,800 reservations were cancelled in 28 Athens hotels. Dozens of conferences and major events have been cancelled in the country's two largest cities, Athens and Thessaloniki, as well as in Crete and the northern Greek beach resort area of Chalkidiki. "[/I]

In tomorrow's New York Times, they will have this headline: [B][I]"Europe Feels Heat Despite Drive to Cut Deficits"[/I][/B] with these highlights: [I]"Fearful of becoming the next Greece, European governments are lining up to demonstrate to investors, who have long helped to finance their spending, that an era of austerity has started. The latest example is Italy, which on Tuesday joined Britain, Spain, Portugal and other European Union members in announcing plans to cut billions to help close yawning budget deficits."[/I]

Full stories at:
[url]http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,696493,00.html[/url]
[url]http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/26/business/global/26austerity.html[/url]

THANKS! Good luck to those visiting Greece this summer. Terry in Ohio[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR]

[Fblack]

First protests, now frogs. What will hit Greece next?

Flood of frogs shuts down major Greek highway

"Tiny frogs swarm on the side of the Egnatia highway in northern Greece, on Wednesday, May 26 2010. Officials closed the key northern highway for two hours near the town of Langadas after what police called "a carpet of frogs" covered the road."


[url]http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iQggF57Se71QOSausk0dtQ-mJKZgD9FUKS2G0[/url]

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VocCu94PsFw&feature=player_embedded[/url] Video

[rich_cathybrock]

It really is tough to read all this bad news. I am sad for the people there. Athens has been decimated with cancellations which will only further strain their economy, and now frogs. It is just unbelievable...:(

[RSWBADGER]

Just returned from a cruise stop in Athens, all looked very normal and the locals were very friendly towards tourists.

There was no lack of tourists at all the sights, but we were only there for 5 - 6 hours.

[rich_cathybrock]

Thanks, RSWBadger, for the update, and we hope you had a fabulous cruise!