Greek Economy could affect travel plans

[marp109]

Our cruise leaves May 8 from Piraeus and we did our own air. while we arrive AM of 7th, not much wiggle room there. My butterflies have turned into eagles but nothing we can do about it. This is a vacation?

[TLCOhio]

Our cruise leaves May 8 from Piraeus and we did our own air. while we arrive AM of 7th, not much wiggle room there. My butterflies have turned into eagles but nothing we can do about it. This is a vacation?

 

We will all hope for the best!!! As I have noted in earlier posts, tourism is vital to the shaky Greek economy (plus to Europe, too). It would not be smart to do certain things too stupid to ruin that vital part of their economy and future.

 

Here is the latest Associated Press/AP wire story with this headline: "Greece still under siege despite aid pledge". The story highlights include: "Help is on the way for debt-stricken Greece, but fears of an eventual financial disaster still haunt the country and the rest of the 16-nation eurozone. The government is already implementing a harsh austerity program that cuts civil servants' wages, increases taxes and freezes pensions. While the reforms have triggered strikes and protests, they have been relatively muted so far by Greek standards, although that situation could change if deeper cuts are introduced. The German government has committed to putting the issue through parliament, but Chancellor Angela Merkel faces a crucial regional election in North Rhine-Westphalia, its most populous state, on May 9 and appears reluctant to move on the Greek bailout before then. Merkel said Monday that Athens must be prepared to accept more tough measures 'not just for one year, but for many years' to bring its finances into order."

 

Just posted on the Wall Street Journal is this headline: "Germany Struggles for Greek Consensus". The key story highlight: "German Chancellor Angela Merkel said Greece had to commit to a rigid deficit-reduction plan for years to come in order for the European Union and International Monetary Fund to provide cash to prevent a Greek insolvency. Ms. Merkel, who said IMF Managing Director Dominique Strauss-Kahn told her on Sunday that talks on conditions and other details of a bailout package could continue into early May, said 'Greece has to accept harsh measures for several years.' "

 

You can read the full AP story at:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2010/04/26/financial/f055305D24.DTL&type=business

 

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

[pennsylvaniamimi]

I am suppsed to leave from Piraeus in 3 weeks. I have trip insurance and am with a tour company for just this reason- unexpected complications. Hope all is well for us- but if not we can roll with the punches! Maureen

[Susan-M]

'Civil Unrest' is an exclusion that you'll find on some travel policies, so worth inquiring if the policy covers losses due to civil unrest.

[TLCOhio]

I am suppsed to leave from Piraeus in 3 weeks. I have trip insurance and am with a tour company for just this reason- unexpected complications. Hope all is well for us- but if not we can roll with the punches! Maureen

 

Susan-M raises an excellent question. It is great that you have insurance, but it might be good to check out its details in more depth now. On our Travelex Select policy, there are a couple of sections that might apply. One definition is "Strike: means any unannounced labor disagreement that interferes with the normal departure and arrival of a Common Carrier." They note that they "will pay a benefit, up to the maximum shown on the Confirmation of Coverage, if You are prevented from taking or unable to continue Your Covered Trip due to . . . . " for a "Strike that causes complete cessation of services for at least twenty-four (24) consecutive hours."

 

There clearly could be coverage, if, if and if. The more you read, then added questions come up. This includes the legal difference between an "announced strike" versus one that is "unannounced". What does "complete cessation of services" mean versus only a delay and varied slowness and interruptions? Fortunately, we are not going to Greece this summer, but we are watching that volcano in Iceland and how it might impact our flight through Heathrow to reach Copenhagen to do our Norway Coast/Fjords cruise.

 

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

[Fblack]

It just gets worse. A new strike is planned for May 5th. And yesterday Greek protesters blocked tour buses at the pier. One account says they tried to prevent passengers from getting to their ship. See below.

 

" (Reuters) - Greek civil servants and private sector workers will strike for 24 hours on May 5 to protest against austerity measures,..." http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE63Q1YL20100427

 

"Dock workers also prevented hundreds of foreign tourists from returning to their ships on Monday." http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=124532&sectionid=351020606

 

"Spanish tourists stand next to tourist buses that are stuck during a 24-hour strike at the port of Piraeus." http://www.sofiaecho.com/2010/04/27/893099_greek-unions-to-stage-more-protests-over-imf-ec-rescue-deal

[Hlitner]

Perhaps we can put this in perspective. The Greek Unions (just about everything in Greece is unionized) is striking because they do not want their government to cut spending. The Greeks are also demonstrating because they do not want their governemrnt to raise taxes. The Greeks are also demonstration because they are against a new proposed law that would allow their governemrnt to go after tax evaders. And finally, the nation of Greece is bankrupt and wants other countries to give them money. WOW

 

Hank

[Susan-M]

Yes, they certainly fit the description of being between a rock and a hard place. The money won't come unless Greece agrees to severe austerity programs ... which has to be done at the expense of the citizens. I can't blame the Euro zone countries for thinking long and hard about this decision...esp. when Greece fudged their figures in order to qualify for entry into it back in 2001, and has continued to be creative with their numbers ever since, bringing them to their current dismal state of being on the brink of bankruptcy.

 

I hope they can come to some solution on this, but I doubt that it will be an easy one. It's a very unfortunate situation for the citizens who are suffering the consequences of years of inept government.

[TLCOhio]

Yes, they certainly fit the description of being between a rock and a hard place. The money won't come unless Greece agrees to severe austerity programs ... which has to be done at the expense of the citizens. I can't blame the Euro zone countries for thinking long and hard about this decision...esp. when Greece fudged their figures in order to qualify for entry into it back in 2001, and has continued to be creative with their numbers ever since, bringing them to their current dismal state of being on the brink of bankruptcy. I hope they can come to some solution on this, but I doubt that it will be an easy one. It's a very unfortunate situation for the citizens who are suffering the consequences of years of inept government.

 

Well summarized by Susan, Fblack and Hank. The euro has dropped mid-day to nearly $1.32. Here is the latest, breaking news in the last half hour from the Wall Street Journal. The headline is: "S&P Downgrades Greece to Junk Status". The story highlights are: "Standard & Poor's Ratings Services downgraded Greece to junk status, saying the cash-strapped government's policy options are narrowing because of weak economic growth prospects. 'The downgrade results from our updated assessment of the political, economic and budgetary conditions that the Greek government faces in its efforts to put the public debt burden onto a sustained downward trajectory,' said S&P credit analyst Marko Mrsnik. Along with an earlier S&P downgrade on Portugal, the news sent equities in Europe and the Americas broadly lower and government bonds higher. S&P continues to believe that the size and scope of that program, and the government's political will to implement it, are the main drivers to its sovereign ratings on Greece. Sustained success in this regard could, in time, be reflected in lower market interest rates on Greece's debt. Early indications show that the government is likely to meet its 2010 deficit target."

 

For the New York Story with this headline: "Debt Ratings Are Lowered for Portugal and Greece", you can read it at:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/28/business/global/28drachma.html?hp

A story highlight: "As transport workers in both Portugal and Greece went on strike against austerity measures Tuesday, the risk premium on Greece’s bonds set new records even before S.&P. announced the downgrades."

 

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

[TLCOhio]

Here are some more key news items that will be in tomorrow's newspapers about the financial developments in Greece and Europe.

 

In the Wall Street Journal, is this headline: "Crisis Spreads in Europe. Debt Downgrades in Portugal, Greece Sow Fear of Contagion; World Markets Hit". Here are some story highlights: "Europe's hopes of containing Greece's credit crisis dimmed as the country's debt woes spread to Portugal, sparking a selloff in markets across the globe and testing the European Union's ability to protect its common currency. The euro tumbled to its lowest point in a year against the dollar after Standard & Poor's Ratings Services cut Portugal's credit rating two notches and downgraded Greece's debt to "junk" territory, a first for a euro-zone member. The move is bound to worsen Greece's already dire fiscal situation and hamper a recovery. The force of the market reaction to the downgrades suggests that the EU's fraught, months-long effort to stem Greece's debt crisis has all but failed."

 

In the New York Times, is this headline: "Europeans Fear Greek Debt Crisis Liable to Spread". Here are some story highlights: "As Greece inches closer to the brink of financial collapse, fear that the debt crisis will spread is engulfing Europe. Increasingly, investors wonder if Portugal, Spain and even Ireland may not be able to borrow the billions of dollars they need to finance their government spending. The problem is that it is not just Greece, which expects to receive international aid, but Portugal, Spain and other countries that must issue more debt soon."

 

From Business Week/Bloomberg news, is this headline: "Euro Trades Near One-Year Low on Concerns Over Greek Crisis". Here are some story highlights: "The euro traded near a one-year low versus the dollar on concern debt problems will spread across Europe after Standard & Poor’s lowered Greece’s debt to junk and cut Portugal’s rating by two steps. The common currency, which tumbled the most in a year against the dollar yesterday, neared a five-week low versus the yen as European Central Bank President Jean-Claude Trichet prepares to meet German policy makers after they showed reluctance to bail out Greece."

 

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704471204575209881629094458.html?mod=WSJ_hps_LEFTWhatsNews

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/28/business/global/28euro.html?hp

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-04-27/euro-trades-near-one-year-low-on-concerns-over-greek-crisis.html

 

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

[sunshine nana]

Are cruise ships able to stop in Athens this week? Has anyone heard anything?

[Susan-M]

Are cruise ships able to stop in Athens this week? Has anyone heard anything?

 

The Tripadvisor Athens forum has some discussion re disruptions due to the strikes.

 

 

http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic-g189400-i194-k3577801-Upcoming_Strikes_affecting_transit-Athens_Attica.html

 

http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowForum-g189400-i194-Athens_Attica.html

[TLCOhio]

The Tripadvisor Athens forum has some discussion re disruptions due to the strikes.

http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic-g189400-i194-k3577801-Upcoming_Strikes_affecting_transit-Athens_Attica.html

http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowForum-g189400-i194-Athens_Attica.html

 

THANKS for the good, added info from Susan! Here are a couple of key news articles on how they are trying to "solve" this mess in Greece and Europe. Part of the challenge is the politics in Germany where many want to limit how much of "their" money is put at risk bailing out what they call irresponsibility behaviors by the Greeks and other countries in the Med areas.

 

From the Washington Post, they have this headline: "As stocks slump, European, IMF officials push Germany on Greece" with these highlights: "European and International Monetary Fund officials converged in Germany on Wednesday to try to halt the spread of a deepening Greek debt crisis that one official compared to the 'Ebola virus.' With Greece straining to manage its debt payments and at risk of a default, efforts were focused on convincing the German government to move forward with a $40 billion European aid package to help the country pay its bills. The IMF will contribute another $20 billion -- and perhaps substantially more, the Financial Times reported. Germany has approved the package in theory, but has been demanding clearer plans from Greece over how it will cut government spending in future years and restructure its economy."

 

From the BBC this am, they have this headline: "The Greek meltdown" with these highlights: "The Greek wave that for so long has been gathering strength on the horizon has finally hit the shore-line. The Greek debt crisis risks spiralling out of control and dragging other countries down with it. A member of the eurozone has been awarded junk bond status. That is a humiliation. The months of paralysis, of optimistic-sounding statements from Brussels, have resulted in a full-blown crisis. Greece can no longer afford to borrow money."

 

You can see the full stories at:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/04/28/AR2010042801585.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/gavinhewitt/2010/04/the_greek_meltdown.html

 

Terry in Ohio

[TLCOhio]

From the AP newswire, they have this headline: "Spain downgraded, Europe debt crisis widens" with these highlights: "Europe's debt crisis mushroomed Wednesday as Spain saw its credit rating lowered, just as Germany sought to reassure nervous investors that Greece would not be allowed to go under, saying Berlin's share of a key aid package could be approved in the next few days. Spain is considered the key to whether Europe's debt crisis can be resolved -- its economy is much larger than that of Greece and Portugal and -- many in the markets postulate -- may be just too big to bail out if it gets into serious trouble." At 1 pm Wednesday, the euro is a little over $1.31.

 

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Spain-debt-downgraded-by-apf-1816859080.html?x=0&.v=27

 

THANKS! Terry in Ohio

[Solstice23]

Our Canadian Dollar took a hit yesterday a little but its back over the USA dollar a little now andf much better against the Euro..Hope this stays for our med cruise this July!!!

[SXM54]

I'm cruising out of Venice in May....we will stop in Athens on May 25. I have a friend that lives in Corinth, which is a few hours by train from Athens. She will be meeting us on May 25 in Athens and we will spend the day together....if we can dock and get off the cruise ship. I just spoke with her tonight. She is so concerned about what is going on in Greece that she is leaving for Athens a few days prior to our meeting....she says when they strike, the trains will not run. She doesn't want to miss seeing us so she will have to spend the week in Athens to avoid possible strikes. I hope we can get together as I haven't seen her in almost 20 years and we are looking so forward to this visit.

[cruisemom42]

It would be great if we had some first-hand reports of how things are for cruisers in Athens. Perhaps some readers with cruises in the next month will report back here as to any strikes, demonstrations, disruptions, closings (or shorter hours) at museums and other cultural sites, etc.

[Fblack]

Guess who went on strike today in Greece? Radio Technicians and Teachers. And one small cruise lines has stopped calls in Athens

 

 

"April 29, 2010 - 10:54AM : Fresh strikes rattle Greece

 

"Strikes erupted in Greece on Wednesday ... . Radio technicians launched a 48-hour strike, halting news broadcasts, as disgruntled applicants for civil sector jobs protested outside the finance ministry and teachers also launched work stoppages."

 

and

 

On Tuesday, a Communist protest blocked nearly 1000 tourists at Piraeus, delaying their departure aboard the cruise ship Zenith by around 10 hours and forcing them to spend the night at nearby hotels.

 

A decision by Zenith's operating company to drop Piraeus from its itinerary will cost the port 400 jobs and 10 million euros ($A14 million) in lost revenue this summer, "

 

http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-world/fresh-strikes-rattle-greece-20100429-tthm.html

[marp109]

We leave a week from today for Athens for our May 8 departure. I have gotten so much valuable information from these boards that I would be delighted to be able to contribute something back. We return home on 17th and I'll post a full report then and quite possibly intransit as we're bringing our netbook with us. Our cruise is predominantly in Greece with stops at smaller islands so I should have a broad perspective of urban versus rural.

[Travelin' Mom]

Have a great and safe trip! We look forward to your report. I hope it is problem-free.

[TLCOhio]

It would be great if we had some first-hand reports of how things are for cruisers in Athens. Perhaps some readers with cruises in the next month will report back here as to any strikes, demonstrations, disruptions, closings (or shorter hours) at museums and other cultural sites, etc.

 

Excellent point by the super experienced Cynthia about the need to get more "on-the-scene" reports from visitors in Greece.

 

As of this morning, the euro is going up in value to $1.33, reflecting some "stabilization", for whatever that means.

 

Here are key, breaking news stories updating these fast-changing events. From the Wall Street Journal at 9 am, they have this headline: "EU Nears Deal on Greece Aid Package" with these highlights: "High-level meetings between the European Central Bank, the International Monetary Fund and German politicians in Berlin Wednesday were an important step forward in efforts to give financial support to Greece, ECB President Jean-Claude Trichet said Thursday. Negotiations currently taking place in Athens will result in 'a courageous, comprehensive and convincing multiyear program' to help the heavily indebted country, Mr. Trichet said. Germany's opposition parties Thursday agreed to support a fast-track legislative procedure that will see the country's lawmakers vote on a Greek rescue bill by May 7. Political bickering over the Greek bailout in Germany, where aid for Athens is deeply unpopular, has been a major source of the uncertainty roiling financial markets in the past week. Chancellor Angela Merkel's government, which faces an important regional election on May 9, has sought to reassure voters at home that it is being tough on Greece, dragging out EU talks on aid in recent months. According to German officials, IMF head Dominique Strauss-Kahn has said the aid could total up to €120 billion ($158 billion) over three years—nearly three times the amount recently pledged."

 

From the New York Times, they have this headline: "Merkel Tested as Escalating Greek Crisis Hurts Euro" with these highlights: "Chancellor Angela Merkel’s strategy for dealing with Greece’s untenable debt problem was to stall and hope the crisis did not demand action until after a critical state election in early May. On Wednesday, the clock finally ran out. Mrs. Merkel’s hand was forced by mistrustful credit markets and the ratings agency that downgraded Spain, Portugal and Greece in a matter of just two days. As the crisis worsened, political calculations had to take a back seat to the more basic task of ensuring the stability of the euro currency that replaced Germany’s beloved mark."

 

You can read the full stories at:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/29/world/europe/29germany.html?hp

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704302304575213740195568432.html?mod=WSJ_hps_LEFTTopStories

 

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

[SXM54]

We leave a week from today for Athens for our May 8 departure. I have gotten so much valuable information from these boards that I would be delighted to be able to contribute something back. We return home on 17th and I'll post a full report then and quite possibly intransit as we're bringing our netbook with us. Our cruise is predominantly in Greece with stops at smaller islands so I should have a broad perspective of urban versus rural.

 

Thank you, looking forward to reading your report as I will be on my cruise following yours going to the same place! Let us know where you will post your report....here or in the review section? We will look for it...thanks and safe travels!

[Fblack]

Germany and France are in agreement on how to tackle the Greek debt crisis. Only problem is how to implement it without shutting down the country. They say:

 

"4/29/2010: France, Germany agree on how to help Greece -Sarkozy

 

"Germany has said it will only help Greece if it commits to tough austerity measures,... ."

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSLDE63S1QX20100429

[MANURULES]

I am sorry to say that the situation in Greece and especially in Athens will remain fluid for many months.I find that media reports of the EU politics behind the situation and even fellow traveler reports will be of little use to cruise travelers ,as far as predicting how one's specific itinerary will be affected, is concerned.

The situation on the ground will be affected more by the type and measures adopted by the government to resolve the state financial issues, and local policies and politics,rather than what Merkel says.

A good example of this is the decision of the government to lift the decades old cabotage at the port of Athens.The work action at the port the last couple of days affected travelers there greatly ,even though it is not directly related to the EU negotiations at hand,but more of a long term policy change to bring Piraias in line with the rest of the Mediterranean ports.

The continued reactions to the government's measures(forced by others or not) and the reactions to future measures are impossible to predict.We can only say with certainty that the situation there is in a great state of flux, and unfortunately will continue to be for the rest of the season,.....at least in my opinion.

The reactions of the people -even though most strikes and other work actions,are directed by the extreme left- are understandable.Just like in the US, the local population is bailing out the politicians,financiers etc...That does not do much to ease our cruise passenger pain though ,does it?

 

There is no way you can predict what will happen in town when YOUR cruise ship hits the dock ,or you land at the airport.You might know more and / or have a better idea about a week prior to your arrival there.

 

The TA Athens forum will probably have up to date info.Many locals are doing a great job posting information,about work actions and transport related issues, as soon as it is available locally.

[stipmom]

What is the TA Athensl forum? Thanks