2 yr old with Down syndrome in Camp Carnival

[shassy]

I wasn't sure if anyone here would have any input for me on this...

 

We're cruising the Mexican Riviera next month with our son who's 2 1/2 and has Down syndrome. We'll be on Carnival Cruise Line which has a kids' daycare program for toddlers ages 2-5. They don't offer one-on-one assistance for kids with special needs, which, for our son, I think will be OK. Physically he's doing well (can run and jump, etc.). But he's still developmentally and socially a little behind other kids his age. He uses signs and a few words to communicate ("no" and "more" are the biggies).

 

We were thinking of just letting him play at Camp Carnival for a couple hours at a time so we could have peaceful adult time now and again. But I worry about leaving him in an environment where he'll be one of the youngest and littlest, knowing that he might not be quite at the same developmental level as the other kids in his group. I know he's pretty good about holding his own and does fine in nursery at church with kids ages 18 months to 3 years. But I also know he's not entirely interested in the same things as other 2-year-olds just yet.

 

Has anyone else used Camp Carnival for their kids with special needs? Should I stop worrying? Or are my concerns valid?

[Kerry's Girls]

One of my twins is mentally retarded and I must say that she's always been well-cared for in the kids programs, including Carnival. We did Carnival the week after she turned two, when she really wasn't talking much and had only started walking a couple months before. The kids crew on Carnival was wonderful with her (I'll admit it, I stood just out of sight for quite a while each time to listen to how things were going), but after a while would start crying and not stop at times, so they would call me to go get her (she had not been in any kind of day care or pre-school at that point, so it was very new to her). At night I would let her fall asleep in the stroller and then take her there to have a little time to myself (her twin loved the kids club, so that wasn't an issue).

 

I think you'll all have a wonderful time.

 

Best,

Mia

[lds26]

My son is 7 and while he is older than your lil one he is also severely developmentally delayed. I was very happy when the CC staff allowed him to call me to check in. I had made many calls to the CC room to check on my sons. We were very impressed with the acceptance of the staff for us to check in with our sons. I have no doubt that they will have lots of fun with your lil one and will do a wonderful spot-on job!

[MyMoses]

I have a 2 year old dd who is not special needs and I was concerned about her being in the camp as well. Mostly because I've done toddler type classes with her and she doesn't like to follow directions or do what the other kids are doing. I was concerned that maybe the camp would have an issue with her being there if she wasn't involved in the activity going on at the time. I peeked in a few times while she was there and many times she was in an area playing with toys by herself while an activity was going on, but they didn't seem to mind. I know it's not the same thing as having a child with special needs, but if he normally does pretty well in settings with other toddlers, I think he'd be okay. Have a great cruise!

[Julienatul]

I think he will be fine. I have heard Camp Carnival is especially good with autistic kids and kids with special needs. Also, they are used to a variety of developmental levels since a just turned two year old is not anything like an almost 6 yr old. They do very well adapting and integrating all levels into the same activity. They will give you a pager or cell phone to contact you if he isnt enjoying himself.

 

Good luck!! I bet your family will have lots of special memories to look back on after this cruise!

[shassy]

Thank you for the reassurance!

[kitty9]

I know this isn't Carnival, but on our last RCCI cruise, there were 5 Downs kids involved in their program, and they had an absolute ball. They were all totally engaged in the activities and the counselors took very good care of them.

[imsulin]

I waited awhile to reply to this, as I will admit that I am very biased about this subject, and I don't want to come across as angry or disrespectful. I worked for many years with DD/MH children and adults, and have seen my share of inconsiderate and shameful behavior towards our (not by choice) handicapped citizens. It's how I learned to keep my mouth shut many years ago! A child with Down's is still a learning child, and a 2 1/2 year old is still learning and will continue to learn, throughout adulthood. A child born with a mental or physical disability is still able to be taught and to learn, regardless of the handicap. Chronological ages and functioning ages of children need to be taken into consideration by cruise lines offering Children's Programs. And staff needs to be trained. Cruiselines can write off the ADA because they're "not in America", and yet pressure that is many year's old has forced them to at least have wheel-chair accessible cabins and baths (which they will sell to anyone) and some available wheelchairs. Cruise lines have only addressed the physically disabled, including sight and hearing impaired. Thus, certified guide dogs are allowed. However, cruise lines have not really addressed the fact that there are Mentally Handicapped children and adults who cruise. They expect a "normal functioning" person to be with them at all times. I sincerely hope that anyone with a physically or mentally disabled child can take advantage of a Children's Program on any ship on any line, and that the parent be allowed to view different age programs to determine which program would work best for their child - regardless of age. My youngest son suffered a TBI (traumatic brain injury) at age 11, falling down a trail in Boulder Canyon after slipping on loose shale. He was wearing a rock-climbing helmet, which probably saved his life. Two years of Physical and Occupational therapy ensued, and we endured looks of "disgust" and nasty comments at the drainage tubes and shaved head when in public. ("Retardo") He's fine now (26, thick hair covers the scar, just bought a house, no contact sports despite very large size- including the ice skating and rock-climbing venues on our RCI Jewel cruise a few years ago). I've been there personally and professionally. Thus, I am very biased. Sorry for ranting. Hope this doesn't get pulled.

[kerrytens]

I have no doubt that Carnival will welcome your little guy with open arms! Have you contacted their special needs department yet? I had my TA notify them of my daughter's autism at the time of booking and then I emailed them myself afterwards.

They were ready for her and couldn't wait to meet her actually. The youth director even came to my cabin to meet my daughter.

Your son will be fine and well looked after with the staff onboard.

Have a great time!!!

[Gingee]

Since your child has been with other children and everything is fine, I wouldn't worry about it. I work with 2-5 year olds and most two year olds don't play with other kids. Sometimes one or two might play together with blocks and such but it is not unusual for them to play by themselves. Go and enjoy.

[Kerry's Girls]

I waited awhile to reply to this, as I will admit that I am very biased about this subject, and I don't want to come across as angry or disrespectful. I worked for many years with DD/MH children and adults, and have seen my share of inconsiderate and shameful behavior towards our (not by choice) handicapped citizens. It's how I learned to keep my mouth shut many years ago! A child with Down's is still a learning child, and a 2 1/2 year old is still learning and will continue to learn, throughout adulthood. A child born with a mental or physical disability is still able to be taught and to learn, regardless of the handicap. Chronological ages and functioning ages of children need to be taken into consideration by cruise lines offering Children's Programs. And staff needs to be trained. Cruiselines can write off the ADA because they're "not in America", and yet pressure that is many year's old has forced them to at least have wheel-chair accessible cabins and baths (which they will sell to anyone) and some available wheelchairs. Cruise lines have only addressed the physically disabled, including sight and hearing impaired. Thus, certified guide dogs are allowed. However, cruise lines have not really addressed the fact that there are Mentally Handicapped children and adults who cruise. They expect a "normal functioning" person to be with them at all times. I sincerely hope that anyone with a physically or mentally disabled child can take advantage of a Children's Program on any ship on any line, and that the parent be allowed to view different age programs to determine which program would work best for their child - regardless of age.

 

I appreciate your experience has created frustration, but as a mom of a retarded child who has participated in kids programs on six cruises on three different cruise lines, I have found that the cruise companies have addressed there are all kinds of people with special needs and we have always been most welcome and well-cared for, in the kids club and without exception by everyone on board. Other parents of special needs kids I've met on board have had the same experience and, it seems, so have the others who have posted here. (Truth be told, we actually have not experienced any shameful or inconsiderate behavior in our regular day-to-day life either.)

 

Our only problem with cruises has been that we haven't been able to book RCCL because my daughter wasn't yet potty trained so couldn't participate in the kids program. But I don't expect different rules because my child has special needs, we just chose other cruise lines and have always been welcome and cared for. At 5 she has now become potty trained and we can finally book an RCCL cruise - my girls are going to be SO excited when they see a cruise ship with ice skating and a rock climbing wall!

 

Best to all,

Mia

[reallyitsmema]

I appreciate your experience has created frustration' date=' but as a mom of a retarded child who has participated in kids programs on six cruises on three different cruise lines, I have found that the cruise companies have addressed there are all kinds of people with special needs and we have always been most welcome and well-cared for, in the kids club and without exception by everyone on board. Other parents of special needs kids I've met on board have had the same experience and, it seems, so have the others who have posted here. (Truth be told, we actually have not experienced any shameful or inconsiderate behavior in our regular day-to-day life either.)

 

Our only problem with cruises has been that we haven't been able to book RCCL because my daughter wasn't yet potty trained so couldn't participate in the kids program. But I don't expect different rules because my child has special needs, we just chose other cruise lines and have always been welcome and cared for. At 5 she has now become potty trained and we can finally book an RCCL cruise - my girls are going to be SO excited when they see a cruise ship with ice skating and a rock climbing wall!

 

Best to all,

Mia[/quote']

I know your child is now trained but RCI will make an exception for disabled children. I was actually looking into this on RCI for my brother. From their website:

 

Children with Disabilities

Royal Caribbean welcomes children with disabilities, especially in our fun-filled Adventure Ocean program. Upon request, every efforts will be made to provide reasonable accommodations that will meet the needs of children with disabilities. Some of these accommodations can include:

 

Adventure Ocean grouping by ability (rather than age)

Adventure Ocean toilet-trained policy exception

Pagers for parents of children in Adventure Ocean program

Baby sitting services

 

Note: If you have another type of medical condition that has not been mentioned, please inquire about policies and procedures that may affect your cruise.

[Kerry's Girls]

I know your child is now trained but RCI will make an exception for disabled children. I was actually looking into this on RCI for my brother. From their website:

 

I can't believe I never saw that - thank you for bringing it up for anyone else with a special needs kid looking at their options.

 

Best,

Mia

[imsulin]

I appreciate your experience has created frustration, but as a mom of a retarded child who has participated in kids programs on six cruises on three different cruise lines, I have found that the cruise companies have addressed there are all kinds of people with special needs and we have always been most welcome and well-cared for, in the kids club and without exception by everyone on board. Other parents of special needs kids I've met on board have had the same experience and, it seems, so have the others who have posted here. (Truth be told, we actually have not experienced any shameful or inconsiderate behavior in our regular day-to-day life either.)

 

Our only problem with cruises has been that we haven't been able to book RCCL because my daughter wasn't yet potty trained so couldn't participate in the kids program. But I don't expect different rules because my child has special needs, we just chose other cruise lines and have always been welcome and cared for. At 5 she has now become potty trained and we can finally book an RCCL cruise - my girls are going to be SO excited when they see a cruise ship with ice skating and a rock climbing wall!

 

Best to all,

Mia

 

 

Very glad to hear this! There were many years when this was just not so - thus my pet peeve. I've seen some really intolerable situations during my career, as well as on cruises and land vacations. I'm very glad that things have changed! I just haven't seen these changes on my last few cruises, but I'm glad everyone else has! I did talk to a couple with an adult Down's son who felt badly that they were assigned to a small table in the MDR instead of a large table on the RCI Jewel, even though they asked for one. (This was a CC group cruise). Again, I am all about the rights of any handicapped person. Enjoy your RCI cruise with your girls!

[imsulin]

I know your child is now trained but RCI will make an exception for disabled children. I was actually looking into this on RCI for my brother. From their website:

 

 

Good for RCI! Hope all lines follow their example.

[hihosilvers]

Kerry, as the father of a son with Down Syndrome...STOP CALLING YOUR CHILD RETARDED! What's wrong with you?!?

[above sea level cruiser]

Kerry, as the father of a son with Down Syndrome...STOP CALLING YOUR CHILD RETARDED! What's wrong with you?!?

 

I was thinking the same thing. :confused:

[Kerry's Girls]

Kerry, as the father of a son with Down Syndrome...STOP CALLING YOUR CHILD RETARDED! What's wrong with you?!?

 

I'm sure you are aware that lots of people do not think there is anything shameful about being mentally retarded and I am raising my child to not be ashamed that she is mentally retarded. After a great deal of thought and consideration, it is my choice to use the term so as not to imply there is anything wrong or to hide about it (and this is the choice of many, many others in the same situation). It is a term that is on her records and used by her doctors and the school district, so I have chosen to make sure she can hear it without feeling there is anything bad about it, and know that it is the people who use it as an insult who are using the term incorrectly - that she has the same capacity for happiness as anyone else.

 

Just because you do not agree with my choice, does not mean there is anything wrong with me.

 

To all my friends as Cruise Critic, I'm sorry that what was such a wonderful and positive thread was just re-routed. I look forward to more useful information about cruising with our children!

 

With all my best wishes,

Mia

[6rugrats]

I'm sure you are aware that lots of people do not think there is anything shameful about being mentally retarded and I am raising my child to not be ashamed that she is mentally retarded. After a great deal of thought and consideration' date=' it is my choice to use the term so as not to imply there is anything wrong or to hide about it (and this is the choice of many, many others in the same situation). It is a term that is on her records and used by her doctors and the school district, so I have chosen to make sure she can hear it without feeling there is anything bad about it, and know that it is the people who use it as an insult who are using the term incorrectly - that she has the same capacity for happiness as anyone else.

 

Just because you do not agree with my choice, does not mean there is anything wrong with me.

 

To all my friends as Cruise Critic, I'm sorry that what was such a wonderful and positive thread was just re-routed. I look forward to more useful information about cruising with our children!

 

With all my best wishes,

Mia[/quote']

 

Quite right! There is nothing wrong with this term. It's medically correct. It's unfortunate that it's sometimes used in a negative way, but so are many other terms.

[sbhdmh]

I'm sure you are aware that lots of people do not think there is anything shameful about being mentally retarded and I am raising my child to not be ashamed that she is mentally retarded. After a great deal of thought and consideration' date=' it is my choice to use the term so as not to imply there is anything wrong or to hide about it (and this is the choice of many, many others in the same situation). It is a term that is on her records and used by her doctors and the school district, so I have chosen to make sure she can hear it without feeling there is anything bad about it, and know that it is the people who use it as an insult who are using the term incorrectly - that she has the same capacity for happiness as anyone else.

 

Just because you do not agree with my choice, does not mean there is anything wrong with me.

 

To all my friends as Cruise Critic, I'm sorry that what was such a wonderful and positive thread was just re-routed. I look forward to more useful information about cruising with our children!

 

With all my best wishes,

Mia[/quote']

 

Mia: Since joining CC I have continued to be impressed with your insights, your comments and your strength. Your description of your travels with your girls are just wonderful. I think you must be an amazing mother. Your children are very fortunate to have you.

[HappiTravels]

Kerry, as the father of a son with Down Syndrome...STOP CALLING YOUR CHILD RETARDED! What's wrong with you?!?

The hairs are standing up on the back of my neck even hearing that word. My daughter has a rare genetic disorder that has caused serious developmental delays very similar to Down Syndome without the physical aspects of Downs. I find that term so negative that I can't even type it. We took her on Carnival in Dec 2008 and the staff were absolutely wonderful with her and in Jan 2010 on RCCL AOS and once again the staff were really wonderful.

[HappiTravels]

I'm sure you are aware that lots of people do not think there is anything shameful about being mentally retarded and I am raising my child to not be ashamed that she is mentally retarded. After a great deal of thought and consideration' date=' it is my choice to use the term so as not to imply there is anything wrong or to hide about it (and this is the choice of many, many others in the same situation). It is a term that is on her records and used by her doctors and the school district, so I have chosen to make sure she can hear it without feeling there is anything bad about it, and know that it is the people who use it as an insult who are using the term incorrectly - that she has the same capacity for happiness as anyone else.

 

Just because you do not agree with my choice, does not mean there is anything wrong with me.

 

To all my friends as Cruise Critic, I'm sorry that what was such a wonderful and positive thread was just re-routed. I look forward to more useful information about cruising with our children!

 

With all my best wishes,

Mia[/quote']

 

 

Mia, after reading your post I can see your point of view but I still feel that there is nothing but negative connotations tied to the word and I absolutely refuse to say the word or allow it to be used in my home. As far as I am concerned my daughter is developmentally delayed. The school boards NEVER use the R word. It is considered very politically incorrect. Believe me when I say that I am not trying to imply in any way that there is anything wrong with you. We belong in the same special club of parents raising the most special and vulnerable members of our society so we all need to stick together not fall out.

[kitty9]

As a former teacher of the developmentally delayed, it is a very widely held belief that using the term "mentally retarded" is not the best term to use, because of the very negative connotation society has placed on it. While a parent may feel it's right to have their child realize their limitations, there are better ways to refer to those limitations rather than saying "you're retarded". When I first began teaching in 1974, we used the term "mongoloid" which we now know was a horrible term to use. We also divided the kids into mild, moderate and severely retarded and by the late 1980's even those terms were abolished because of the negative connotations. I am absolutely shocked that your school district uses that word, because in our district, when writing our yearly Individualized Education Plan for each child, we are called on the carpet if we use that word. To be honest, I think your district must be behind the times.

 

The reason why I'm up on a high horse on this is not only because I'm an educator, but because I've been physically disabled since contracting polio at the age of 2. I had to go to a special school because I was still in waist to floor braces, and when I got off the bus every day, there was a group of kids who would yell at me "hey, there's the retard of the neighborhood". That still resonates in my brain to this day and it still hurts.

 

Like I said, there's absolutely nothing wrong with letting a child know that he/she has delays in their functioning, but there are much better terms to use than mentally retarded. Not even the Special Olympics uses that term anymore. Oh and by the way, the medical community no longer uses the term retarded as they have come to realize the negative aspects of the word. I was at our board meeting for Children's Hospital of Wisconsin and someone who's not on the board used that word and was roundly corrected by everyone.

[kerrytens]

Mia, after reading your post I can see your point of view but I still feel that there is nothing but negative connotations tied to the word and I absolutely refuse to say the word or allow it to be used in my home. As far as I am concerned my daughter is developmentally delayed. The school boards NEVER use the R word. It is considered very politically incorrect. Believe me when I say that I am not trying to imply in any way that there is anything wrong with you. We belong in the same special club of parents raising the most special and vulnerable members of our society so we all need to stick together not fall out.

 

Very well said. I absolutely hate the 'r' word too mostly because my brother, now in his 40's, had that label as a kid.

If my school board were still using such terminology to describe my own child (who has autism), they would be hearing a few choice words from me. Thankfully the term has been long banished from our system and our kids are labelled special needs.

Mia, I am not being critical of you at all ... just the term which I truly hate beyond words, so much so I can't say it let alone write it. Perhaps you could consider educating the educators :confused: They really need to be brought into the 21st century.

To the OP, I apologize as well that your very important thread has taken a slight turn from your question. I wish all of you only the very best. My child is a source of constant amazement to me. She will never know she is anything but special to us and those around us. She isn't autistic as it doesn't define her. She is a special needs child who teaches all of us, as are each and every one of the kids we've mentioned here. :D

[shassy]

This thread did take an unexpected turn, but I appreciate the discussion. Thank you for all the helpful input about the kids' activities. I really think my son is going to enjoy it, and I'm done worrying. And as a side note, it's nice to hear from other parents of kids with special needs. It is a special role and I feel lucky to have my son. We meet more people through him/because of him than we ever would otherwise, and I think he has more friends than we do!