Trouble on Navigator

[just4kixx]

Any word on how the young man is? I think that's the important thing here.......that a young person's life is in danger. Not whose fault it is, whether or not he had been drinking, or what misinformation sparked non-believers on this thread. I pray for his recovery, and agonize about what his family is going through. That's all that matters.

 

These are my thoughts as well...

 

Thoughts and prayers to this young man and his family.

 

A~

[Cruisinfrombmore]

I already chimed in earlier to corroborate that this tragic accident did occur. I've tried to remain quiet since then but I feel that this skepticism is getting out of control. Let me paint the scenario of why posters who are new to this board or with low post counts may be commenting on this thread. After I make my comments, I will most likely disable my crusie critic account. I found the skepticism and lack of compassion uncalled for and no longer wish to be a part of this online community.

 

For one moment please, imagine this scenario. Imagine that you went on a cruise and a tragic accident (such as the one described) did occur. Your heart went out to the injured party and you were hoping to get an update on their status. Although you did not witness the accident you knew for a fact it occured (noticed the ship was stopped when you woke up, heard the captain's announcement, saw the empty pools, arrived in port an hour late). The ship did not give an update on the injured person's status so you went on home to find a news report of the incident but nothing came up. (Maybe the family requested RCI to keep it quiet?) So, you turn to cruise critic because you are sure someone is talking about it there. You find the thread but to your disbelief, instead of compassion, you see attacks and accusations. So, you login (as I did) to veryify the account and hopefully bring the end to this nonsense. Or, if you don't have an account, you create one.

 

As far as all of the details on the reports not being accurate. I'm assuming that most people on the ship did not witness the incident as it happened at approxmiately 3:30 a.m. While on ship I heard MANY variations of how it happened. While there is no doubt that it did, exactly what and how it happened don't really matter. I pray the young man recovers and his family can find peace in this tragedy.

 

Goodbye.

[susiecreamchs]

Am I the only one who thinks that RCCL should stop scheduling five day cruises during spring break time? The Navigator has a history of problems with drunk college kids during spring break. I was on the same cruise last year and it was terrible-drunk kids throwing up, fighting etc. They kicked several of them off the ship. I was on deck 10 and just loved the loud parties on the pool decks. Perhaps after this tragedy they'll reconsider.

[Richiebaseball]

I have to agree with you...I have not found a news report regarding this on any site (except here). Four of the "posters" who vehemently defended this happening all joined cruise critic on March 13th. Could be a coincidence. I have to admit I am still not convinced.

 

If it did happen i certainly feel bad for the young man and his family.

 

To quote Rodney Dangerfield, "Tough crowd, tough crowd".

 

I had clients on this sailing and each of them have relayed this story to me as well. So while it is secondhand from me, I certainly have no cause to doubt what they have told me, independent of a message board.

 

Time will tell if my post count and join date can stand up to member scrutiny.

[cjcruiser27]

I met a man on the plane yesterday who was on this ship and he told me about the incident so ...

To quote Rodney Dangerfield, "Tough crowd, tough crowd".

 

I had clients on this sailing and each of them have relayed this story to me as well. So while it is secondhand from me, I certainly have no cause to doubt what they have told me, independent of a message board.

 

Time will tell if my post count and join date can stand up to member scrutiny.

[buddyrog]

I, too am in the category of the previous poster. We were on the Navigator and were aware of the accident. My GF was quite upset about the incident and I was attempting to find some info online about the young man's condition. I stumbled upon this site. We didn't know this site existed.

 

WOW! What a collection of skeptics and nitpickers!

 

The incident did occur at approximately 3 AM, and he was evacuated from the vessel by 7 AM. Considering the time it would take for medical and emergency personnel to respond to the scene, carefully extract him from the pool, without causing any more injury to him, transport him to deck 1 (medical) from deck 11 (pool), observe and evaluate what his condition was, and then decide what action to take and arrange for that action, I think getting him off the ship in less than 4 hours was fantastic response by RC.

 

At the risk of getting crucified, I will comment on this. NEVER CRUISE AGAIN ON SPRING BREAK FOR US!

 

Late at night, the students were out of control. There was too much alcohol consumed by them. There was plenty of alcohol confiscated from them (got that info from several different crew members), but apparently they managed to get some through the inspection process. Party central was in our hallway and we had to get security to respond on two different occasions, in the wee hours of the morning.

 

We feel very sorry for the young man and our prayers go out to him and his family.

 

But frankly we're surprised that this, or something similar didn't happen more than just this one time, and there isn't a thing in the world that the ship's crew could have done to prevent it from happening.

[Cruzaholic41]

WOW! What a collection of skeptics and nitpickers!

 

If you were told obviously bogus information, and then the story pops up again later that day on a totally different ship, wouldn't you be a little skeptical as well? Perhaps you should go back and read both threads from beginning to end and maybe you'll understand why there was such disbelief.

 

I, for one, am not saying it didn't happen. However, based on the completely erroneous information given on the first thread, I do understand why some people were so skeptical. I was too at first.

 

Oh, and, Welcome to cruise Critic.

[Roses2]

As an old helicopter areomedical evacuation pilot, please evaluate all of aspects of patient movement before insisting that helicopter evacuation is the only answer.

 

There are many, many factors that should be considered when ordering a aeromedical evacuation by helicopter - particularly when from land to sea and return. Among these are time/distance, weather, sea state, ship landing area (or stokes littler hoist -- probably not advisable in this case) -- and, of course patient condition.

 

Helicopter evacuation is contraindicated in some serious head injuries because of vibration of the helicopter and the flight altitude that may be necessary because of flight conditions.

 

While helicopter evacuation has been a great advance and has save many lives, it is not alwaysthe best choice for every patient under every condition.

[Cruzin-K]

I, too am in the category of the previous poster. We were on the Navigator and were aware of the accident. My GF was quite upset about the incident and I was attempting to find some info online about the young man's condition. I stumbled upon this site. We didn't know this site existed.

 

WOW! What a collection of skeptics and nitpickers!

 

The incident did occur at approximately 3 AM, and he was evacuated from the vessel by 7 AM. Considering the time it would take for medical and emergency personnel to respond to the scene, carefully extract him from the pool, without causing any more injury to him, transport him to deck 1 (medical) from deck 11 (pool), observe and evaluate what his condition was, and then decide what action to take and arrange for that action, I think getting him off the ship in less than 4 hours was fantastic response by RC.

 

At the risk of getting crucified, I will comment on this. NEVER CRUISE AGAIN ON SPRING BREAK FOR US!

 

Late at night, the students were out of control. There was too much alcohol consumed by them. There was plenty of alcohol confiscated from them (got that info from several different crew members), but apparently they managed to get some through the inspection process. Party central was in our hallway and we had to get security to respond on two different occasions, in the wee hours of the morning.

 

We feel very sorry for the young man and our prayers go out to him and his family.

 

But frankly we're surprised that this, or something similar didn't happen more than just this one time, and there isn't a thing in the world that the ship's crew could have done to prevent it from happening.

 

I hope that just this one thread won't keep you from coming back here. If you ever go on another cruise (not during Spring Break of course :D) there is a wealth of knowledge here on ships, ports, you-name-it, and the roll calls are a great place to get to know your fellow cruisers.

 

Just stay away from threads with words like "trouble" "problem" "never" "complaint" and "awful" and you should be just fine. I like these boards for the information. I would have never known what a "hump" cabin was, or that you can order more than one entree in the dining room if it wasn't for Cruise Critic.

 

Take the griping and moaning with a grain of salt (preferably on a margarita glass).

[SamFritz]

 

Take the griping and moaning with a grain of salt (preferably on a margarita glass).

 

Very Nice Touch! :D

[Hal from Ohio]

I hope you'll not be crucified by the good folks on CC. I also share your feelings regarding cruises during spring break. I'm not at all opposed to anyone having a great time, and I realize dates are not flexible for students, but we've cruised during spring break and now will not. Here are the facts. According to a site I found, the weeks of 3/8 and 3/15 have the most college students on break in 2010. 1,771,000 and 2,176,000 respectively. The third highest week is 3/22 with "only" 638,000 on break.

[SRQfireman]

You'd have to wonder about that "large tender with a medical staff." Somebody would be paying for that! Wonder why the captain didn't just pull back into port. Would have been plenty of dockage space available at that hour of the morning.

You have any ideas how much it costs to dock in Cozumel???? I bet ya ship that size costs a ton of money.....it's take time to dock also and tie up and probably even get "clearence" to let anybody off....they don't let ya park "free" there.....they would have charged them if I was a betting man since the port would have incurred labor charges amongst other items.....and like I say, parking next to another boat for a brief timeframe would be the quickest way to do it I'd guess.....

as for a helicopter......I'm almost sure *if* it was approved, it would have come out of USCG station Clearwater Fl....and that would have been a heck of a flight....then you have to take into consideration the amount of fuel to get over there and back (would there would have been enough on 1 tank?)

so best I can tell.....they did the best thing.....got that injured young man off there boat to a hospital in like 4 hours.....not too shabby

I can tell ya from a side note though, the hospital in Cozumel is very primitive.....I personally know somebody who got injured in Cozumel and had nothing good to say about the care they received

 

P.S.....I like the comment about the person that was in suite 2616 (or whatever # it was)...and the guy that took care of their suite...that's too funny.....I've never seen any suites on deck 2 :D

[gadaboutgal]

You have any ideas how much it costs to dock in Cozumel???? I bet ya ship that size costs a ton of money.....it's take time to dock also and tie up and probably even get "clearence" to let anybody off....they don't let ya park "free" there...

No, I don't have any idea what it costs, but surely you can tell me. Just about any way it would have been done, would have cost money. But, most importantly what would be the most efficient and effective way to have done it.

[GXmanDC]

If you were told obviously bogus information, and then the story pops up again later that day on a totally different ship, wouldn't you be a little skeptical as well? Perhaps you should go back and read both threads from beginning to end and maybe you'll understand why there was such disbelief.

 

I, for one, am not saying it didn't happen. However, based on the completely erroneous information given on the first thread, I do understand why some people were so skeptical. I was too at first.

 

Oh, and, Welcome to cruise Critic.

 

But there wasn't obviously bogus information. The guy got the ship name wrong. Details are sketchy with human witnesses, big surprise.

[Aquahound]

No, I don't have any idea what it costs, but surely you can tell me. Just about any way it would have been done, would have cost money. But, most importantly what would be the most efficient and effective way to have done it.

 

In most cases, it's by boat. Pulling in to port requires the availability of longshoremen to handle the lines. As I understand it, most line handlers in Cozumel live over on the mainland and ferry back and forth daily.

 

Helicopters are not too often used, not because of costs, but because of flight surgeon denial for flight....usually dependent on the nature of the injury.

 

In most cases, it's logistically easier and faster to just have a boat come out and meet you.

[imsulin]

The OP on the original thread finally did say this incident took place on the Navigator (after many pages). Back in the 80's, my fellow teachers and I began cruising over Spring Break each year (trust me - we had to save for a year in advance!). There were very few ships, and the prices were pretty high. We did 7-night cruises on NCL, Celebrity, and Tall Ship Adventures. No drunken party-hearty older kids/young adults! They couldn't afford it. My last cruise over Spring Break was the last week of March, 2003. Never again!! (Unless I marry a 99-year old multimillionaire with no living family and will cruise Crystal or Seabourne or SilverSeas for World Cruises which may be over "Spring Break"). Now, I make it a point to never confront anyone about adult/kid bad behavior (I notify Security), but on this 2003 Spring Break cruise, I took matters into my own hands. For a few nights in a row, the "I'm drunk and don't care" young adult crowd had a ball pounding on cabin doors at 2 am, including mine. Finally, I got up, donned my terry robe, and followed them discreetly down halls to their cabin and took note of the cabin number. Thereafter, I called that cabin every morning via cabin phone between 6 and 7 am and hung up when someone groggily answered. Bad me! I've seen what happens. The young kids, though, were no problem at all!

[lingoboy]

I was on the Navigator and yes, this incident certainly did happen-- very tragic :(... I had heard that he had jumped from the upper deck into the pool in the Solarium area, but I wasn't there so I'm not sure about details about a ball or anything like that. The only thing I know for sure is that the next morning, there was an announcement stating that we were going to be delayed for an hour because we had to make a stop back to Cozumel as a result of a young male being injured around 3AM. When I had gone to the solarium area early that morning, the area was taped off with yellow tape.

 

I agree with the other poster that I won't be taking another cruise around spring break.

[Mission Viejo Marilyn]

Steponboard...

RCI does not look the other way when liquor is smuggled. We were on the Vision during one spring break and several bags were confiscated as they went through scanners before they were boarded. Everyone who's bag was confiscated had to go down to deck 1 and open it and take everything out. One kid, I was told by the Food and Bev Mgr., had 7 liters in his suitcase.

 

Also, I know that Mariner was handing out fliers as people were boarding this AM, that absolutely no beverages of any kind would be allowed to be taken onboard...so our friend's son had to give up his Monster Energy drink cans before boarding. So now those who prefer their own soft drinks can't even bring them.

 

Also, from another friend onboard the Mariner....Deck Patrol and Security has been beefed up and there were no disturbances on that ship this past week.

[John Henry on CC]

The OP on the original thread finally did say this incident took place on the Navigator (after many pages). Back in the 80's, my fellow teachers and I began cruising over Spring Break each year (trust me - we had to save for a year in advance!). There were very few ships, and the prices were pretty high. We did 7-night cruises on NCL, Celebrity, and Tall Ship Adventures. No drunken party-hearty older kids/young adults! They couldn't afford it. My last cruise over Spring Break was the last week of March, 2003. Never again!! (Unless I marry a 99-year old multimillionaire with no living family and will cruise Crystal or Seabourne or SilverSeas for World Cruises which may be over "Spring Break"). Now, I make it a point to never confront anyone about adult/kid bad behavior (I notify Security), but on this 2003 Spring Break cruise, I took matters into my own hands. For a few nights in a row, the "I'm drunk and don't care" young adult crowd had a ball pounding on cabin doors at 2 am, including mine. Finally, I got up, donned my terry robe, and followed them discreetly down halls to their cabin and took note of the cabin number. Thereafter, I called that cabin every morning via cabin phone between 6 and 7 am and hung up when someone groggily answered. Bad me! I've seen what happens. The young kids, though, were no problem at all!

 

Bad news, imsulin: the cabin phones all have caller ID now. ;) :D

 

I don't think he looks foolish at all.

 

I see RCL more at fault then the poor young man. A safety net is for safety and should perform as it's name implies. RCL looks the other way on liquor smuggling and allows people to share information on how to smuggle. This board is composed of mostly pro cruise pro RCl at all costs and drives people away who don't show that opinion. Sad sad situation. I wish there was an update on the condition of this young man.

 

RC hardly looks the other way on liquor smuggling. They seem to do everything that they can to prevent it and catch it. Odd statement from you.

 

"Allows people to share" - HUH? Do you mean that they don't censor posts on this or other cruise boards? Of course not. Another odd statement.

 

My heart goes out to the injured young man, his family and friends. I hope that the prognosis is not as dire as has been implied here, and that he can make a full recovery.

[imsulin]

Bad news, imsulin: the cabin phones all have caller ID now. ;) :D

 

 

Yeah, I know. But it worked for me at the time! Sigh. Technology. Sigh. :)!!

[poolaccident]

I just saw this site and was hesitant to join and post because this truly was a traumatic experience for everyone who saw it happen. However reading this forum and hearing all of the ridiculous rumors surrounding this event makes me feel that it is my responsibility to share what I saw.

 

I was on the Royal Caribbean Navigator of the Seas trip this week and saw the events and can confirm that the description that tepcruiser gave in an earlier post is 100% true, although I do understand that his profanity severely weakens his credibility. I too did not see the beach ball in the pool but was dancing on the ledge (the second night in a row where my friends were hanging out) when I saw the kid fall and land on his face. He lay face down for quite a few seconds before anyone got to him. It was extremely surreal. The music stopped and everyone just looked. I assume that like myself, everyone was either waiting for some medical staff to jump in to help him or for him to move. It was obvious from the way he went straight through the net and the fact that he landed on his face that he was very hurt, but not obvious that he wasn't going to roll over in a lot of pain and with serious injuries. Finally, I saw a crew member get to him while others started to remove the net from the rest of the drained pool. Although I agree with this being 100% RCCL's fault for providing the opportunity for this to happen and that what this kid did was certainly a bad decision on his part, the reaction to the situation was dreadful.

 

After noticing that this kid was bleeding from his face, the first thing the staff member did was turn him over onto his side. I am not a medical student, nor do I claim to know exactly what a trained responder should do in this situation. But I find it particularly troubling that in a situation in which tons of people are served as much alcohol as they care to purchase, the first response from a supposedly high-end cruise line was to flip a person that landed from a fall on his face and was knocked out cold on his side. The kids head was obviously unresponsive when he was flipped over and blood was all over his face as well as pooling under his head. I then said to a staff member who was clearing people out that someone should check his pulse immediately. The first responder certainly did not appear to and this was fifteen seconds after he landed, however I understand maybe he could tell the kid was still breathing and hence taking a pulse was unnecessary.

 

I then saw them rushing to the stairs with a wheelchair. A wheelchair? Maybe it was just a bartender grabbing anything that he could to help. I had know idea which staff were just bartenders on their shift and which ones were trained for emergencies since at that point, there was no one dressed in any kind of medical clothing or with any emergency equipment (i.e. neck brace, supplies). I was cleared out of the area before I ever saw them use the wheelchair or even the wheelchair guy take it into the pool, and I did see others bringing a stretcher which I certainly hoped they used to remove him from the pool. This wheelchair just particularly stood out to me because I was yelling at one employee that they were handling this situation all wrong and this seemed to be inconceivably ridiculous. When I noticed that a staff member was so lost that he thought a lifting this kid into a wheelchair was a good idea, I pointed and said “Do not let that guy use that until you guys stabilize that kid’s neck. They could potentially be causing him severe damage.”

 

Bottom line, it was utterly senseless and dangerous to let kids drink on a ledge over hanging a drained pool till 3:30 in the morning with no one there who knew how to instantly respond in an emergency. I have read in a previous post that it is common for boats to drain their pools in rough seas. If the seas were rough, why were kids still allowed to stand right next to the edge? This was a moving boat!

 

We were up on the ledges of platforms that had statues mounted in the middle of them at the shallow end of the pool. These platforms stood well above even the floor side that separated the pool from the bar. Furthermore, the platform had a railing that stood ankle high that we joked about the all night and the night before that all of us almost tripped over and fell into the pool while dancing - it is at a perfect height to trip you at even the smallest wave or trip while dancing and people were packed onto this platform. We were there for hours each night. Not ONCE were we told to get down. This was utter negligence, and I am shocked that this is the first incident.

 

I don't know the kid's current condition, but I certainly hope that he is alive and that he is ok. He may have just been knocked unconscious and was bleeding a lot, but the way he fell, the way his neck bent and the captain’s description of the severity of the situation certainly portrayed it as life-threatening.

 

I strongly urge people not to comment on events that they are unsure about or to relay speculation that they heard third party. I also strongly hope that a report on exactly what happened based on the video surveillance of the area comes out as people should know the truth. Before you bash this kid for doing something stupid or blame this on rowdy spring breakers sneaking on alcohol, realize that this situation could have been avoided and should have been handled in a much more appropriate manner by the people responsible – Royal Caribbean.

 

Everything else about the cruise was great and I will honestly have memories with my friends that I’ll never forget. It’s just really sad that this will be the most memorable one.

[LBcruzman]

After reading much of this thread and the post just before this I was struck by how many supposedly nice Cruise Critic long timers jumped in to offer their helpful comments about how it was all the victims fault. There were some individual comments on here that are not even worth commenting on. If Karma exists, they will get theirs, is all I can say.

 

I pray for this young man and his family. It is just a tragic event and I believe that while it is possible he was intoxicated (That must be proven, why the rush to judgment by some) the cruise line was also POSSIBLY at fault. So those posters that are actually bashing the victim so they can continue to Cheerlead the Cruiseline? Wow! Are you for real? Get a life. A decent life. One that doesn't put a corporation before the life of a person.

[JulieMcCoy]

As you can see, I have been a Cruise Critic member for years, and this is not my first post. My daughter was on this cruise on the Navigator and at the dance party when the incident occurred. She saw the young man on the bottom of the pool. Unfortunately, this horrible accident did occur. I pray that he is able to recover.

[andrzej5914]

I just have one question for some that posted here and are under the impression that pool netting is there to catch a "dumb" drunk college kid from falling in? Since when did the netting become a trampoline? or is that a new feature on RC? "After 10 pm we drain the pool, attach a net over it and invite you to enjoy our trampoline, just another one of our great new adventure features"

 

Netting is just meant to TELL people to STAY OUT, not to catch them.

 

Few years ago I had some of my friends kids, teenagers, having some fun out in our pool cage. It was a nice day but on the cool side so I didn't bother pulling the plastic cover from the pool. I also told the kids the reason, the pool wasn't heated and the water was too cold to swim. They were told to enjoy the area around the pool and as it was a nice day some of them were in their swimming suits, shorts and t-shirts, etc. I guess at some point one of the kids wanted to impress one of the young ladies and he jumped on top of the plastic. Nothing serious happened as we were right there but if the kid was on his own he could have drowned, the plastic cover engulfed him and he went under water and he panicked. Myself and another man jumped in and got him out.

 

And in a related story, about 10 years ago, bunch of families were staying in a condo building on Siesta Key. This was the time of the very popular MTV show which I can't remember the title of but it basically featured bunch of young guys doing stupid stunts that many times ended in some serious injuries or if nothing else, some serious pain. Anyway, these 16 year old kids, decided to jump from the roof of the condo, about 4-5 floors high, into the pool. There was about 10 ft of space between the building and the pool. As one of the idiot kid jumped, the others were cheering him on and one was actually taping him. The kid missed the pool and one of his legs landed on the concrete. He basically did a "split" but in this case a very painful split. I don't know how the kid is today but I have a feeling he probably will never walk the same way again, if he can even walk.

 

The point is, I do feel bad for him and his family, but at the end it's his fault and his fault only. These kind of "stupid human tricks" happen on a daily basis somewhere.

 

There is nothing that will prevent some other kid or young adult from trying something stupid, especially when there is alcohol, drugs or peer pressure involved. NOTHING!

[Cruzaholic41]

Furthermore, the platform had a railing that stood ankle high that we joked about the all night and the night before that all of us almost tripped over and fell into the pool while dancing - it is at a perfect height to trip you at even the smallest wave or trip while dancing and people were packed onto this platform. We were there for hours each night. Not ONCE were we told to get down. This was utter negligence, and I am shocked that this is the first incident.

 

These four sentences are exactly what I have a huge problem with. You were knowingly and intentionally on these platforms for hours, and because no one told you to get down, it's their fault? Is this what they are teaching you kids these days....to look to blame others for your own stupidity? That is downright sad! :mad: