LGBT-FOD Confusion on NCL

[Clay Clayton]

Just back from our round the horn cruise on NCL. I was surprised to see that they were advertizing the former "Friends of Dorthy" get togethers as a an LGBT Informal gathering. After reading on here of so many who didn't know what FOD meant, I figured that NCL had heard and responded. However, a number of the FODs on board didn't approve and requested that the meetings be listed as FOD rather than LGBT. During the discussion that ensued during the nightly gatherings, I tried to point out the rationale for the change but that didn't seem to satisfy most. Don't really have a point to make other than that you can never seem to satisfy all the people all the time I guess.:rolleyes:

[bbenson]

Don't really have a point to make other than that you can never seem to satisfy all the people all the time I guess.:rolleyes:

 

This is true so each day I concentrate on satisfying one person...me LOL

[greg_atlanta]

The solution: separate meetings for FOD and GLBT.

 

:p

[Wingtips56]

Princess Cruises started calling their's "Rainbow/LGBT", at least on the cruises when Frankie was the Asst. CD, as they found non-Americans and young Americans didn't get the "Dorothy" connection. Friend of Dorothy is from the Stonewall generation and before, so I can understand that. But when we asked NCL about it (they advertized FOD), they said they had complaints from people looking for Dorothy and not getting the LGBT connection. And we ran into many European gays outside the meetings that had no idea what FOD meant...so they didn't go.

 

So what is a universal, global term that more would recognize? I'm not partial to "Queer" myself, and that still may not make sense to those who don't speak English as their first language. It's a puzzlement!

[BalconyGal]

this is true so each day i concentrate on satisfying one person...me lol

lol

[Schplinky]

I wonder what the basis of the objection was. Did they object to being "outed" by the more transparent term or do they feel FOD is more traditional?

 

You really cannot satisfy everyone. Some people want the FOD/GLBT/Rainbow group in the busiest bar on the ship because something more secluded makes them feel shunned by the line or as though the line shut them away somewhere. Others hate a busy spot because you can't tell who is there for the gathering and some [sadly] can't have their traveling companions know that they are GLBT.

[patseacruiser]

Schplinky - the saddest part about your post is the last line about not being able to let your traveling partner know you are GLBT.

[rummenroman]

I have said it before, and will say it again.....we are members of the GLBTQ community....and we want tolerance....yet we still demand a "special" meeting just because we are homosexual....still seems like a hypocritical situation. Give me the rights of our hetro counterparts, yet we are still special enough for our own meeting, doesn't make sense to me!

[soldham]

I have said it before, and will say it again.....we are members of the GLBTQ community....and we want tolerance....yet we still demand a "special" meeting just because we are homosexual....still seems like a hypocritical situation. Give me the rights of our hetro counterparts, yet we are still special enough for our own meeting, doesn't make sense to me!

 

I partially agree with this statement. I live in a city of 350,000 and there really are no 'gay' bars left. There are places where gay people may congregate but so do may hetero folks. That to me is the way it should be....gone are the days when gay bars were these clandestine places off the beaten path that you needed a decoder ring to find.....

However - on a cruise people do tend to search out others of a common interest. This could be bridge ethusiasts, cruise critic members, Shriners, etc. and in that vein I see no issue if there could just be some agreed upon universal term. And that I do not have an answer for.....

[BalconyGal]

Schplinky - the saddest part about your post is the last line about not being able to let your traveling partner know you are GLBT.

 

I agree, that is heartbreaking. :(

 

I have said it before, and will say it again.....we are members of the GLBTQ community....and we want tolerance....yet we still demand a "special" meeting just because we are homosexual....still seems like a hypocritical situation. Give me the rights of our hetro counterparts, yet we are still special enough for our own meeting, doesn't make sense to me!

I think many people just want to be able to relax and feel for a little while at least that they are not being judged.

[CruisinMaterial]

Seriously this was a problem for some passengers? If you don't like the name of the gathering then don't go to it! I don't see what all the fuss is about either way. There have been countless arguments either way for how this gathering should be called. I'm just proud that NCL offers nightly gatherings and puts them in the daily. :)

[sedonanative]

I really object to the term FOD.

FOD is so heavily coded that younger generations don't know what it means, and are continuously excluded. And by "don't know what it means" I mean--they literally don't know what the acronym stands for, much less know what a friend of Dorothy is.

 

It is one thing to prefer one term over another, but it is another thing to continue to select a term that people don't even understand.

[BalconyGal]

I really object to the term FOD.

FOD is so heavily coded that younger generations don't know what it means, and are continuously excluded. And by "don't know what it means" I mean--they literally don't know what the acronym stands for, much less know what a friend of Dorothy is.

 

It is one thing to prefer one term over another, but it is another thing to continue to select a term that people don't even understand.

You make a good point.

[rummenroman]

I think many people just want to be able to relax and feel for a little while at least that they are not being judged.

 

They don't close the area for FOD GLBTQ meeting, anyone can walk into that place and still judge you. If we as a community stop the secularism where we single ourselves out, maybe, just maybe we will get what we all want, and that is equality!

[soldham]

They don't close the area for FOD GLBTQ meeting, anyone can walk into that place and still judge you. If we as a community stop the secularism where we single ourselves out, maybe, just maybe we will get what we all want, and that is equality!

 

AGREED!

 

Do they have straight parades?

What is a gathering of straight people called? Friends of Jim?

Are there straight cruises?

 

I entirely agree with the sentiment. When I am at home or abroad I make friends or aquaintances with people for who there are - not who they sleep with. Is that not the non-judgemental attitude everyone wants?

[BalconyGal]

They don't close the area for FOD GLBTQ meeting, anyone can walk into that place and still judge you. If we as a community stop the secularism where we single ourselves out, maybe, just maybe we will get what we all want, and that is equality!

 

Yes, I am aware of that I've been to many of these things. I guess I am so focused on the people I am meeting and having a nice time that I don't notice others lurking around judging me.

 

AGREED!

 

Do they have straight parades?

What is a gathering of straight people called? Friends of Jim?

Are there straight cruises?

 

I entirely agree with the sentiment. When I am at home or abroad I make friends or aquaintances with people for who there are - not who they sleep with. Is that not the non-judgemental attitude everyone wants?

 

Yes that is the non-judgemental attitude everyone wants exactly! I'm glad that you are enlightened enough to make friends with people for who they are, everyone should be the same way. Not that I am judging anyone who is not. :p

[BalconyGal]

And further, using that logic why have a gay & lesbian section of cruise critic?

[Schplinky]

It's all very interesting isn't it? There are people on this board who pitch fits regularly because one line or another hasn't thrown a GLBT party and yet what we claim is that we want to be treated like every other guest. I'm a gay Canadian who is a public servant. I've never seen a Canadians party or a party for the public service onboard but that does not lead me to think they hate me or value other groups more. Yet, the instant there is no GLBT party (or apparently, if its called the wrong thing), folks get upset. It's all curiously illogical.

 

I think every group likes to feel their business is valued. The ship throwing you a party is only one of a myriad ways that they can make you feel like a welcomed guest.

[bbenson]

I have said it before, and will say it again.....we are members of the GLBTQ community....and we want tolerance....yet we still demand a "special" meeting just because we are homosexual....still seems like a hypocritical situation. Give me the rights of our hetro counterparts, yet we are still special enough for our own meeting, doesn't make sense to me!

 

 

Because I don't know about you but I am special and deserve a party!:D LOL

 

Really though.... Why do we have GLBT parties on land? or bars? or parades? or anything else? Why have a gay bowling league or softball league or anything else?

 

To meet like minded people without wading through the masses. Sure, you can make friends with anyone on a cruise ship and have a perfectly enjoyable time but friendship is based on common interests(mostly)... so finding other gay people gives you a head start....

 

It's just a service offered by the various cruise lines for their passengers and I appreciate the service but if you don't like it...don't go... it seems fairly simple.

 

We do want to be treated the same as our heterosexual counterparts and fortunately we are by most cruise lines and other passengers but, if you look at your history books it took a lot of parties, marches, parades, and civil unrest to get us this far and we aint there yet...

 

Sitting down and shutting up never got nobody nowhere.

[VibeGuy]

*waves at Schplinky*

 

I like the FOD/GLBT get-togethers. I remember the first one I attended when I was still dewy-faced and innocent.

 

(pause for those who have met me to try and imagine that time. Think around 1992)

 

I was scared to *death* that someone would single me out and throw me over the side of the ship later in the week for being seen mingling with known homosexuals. Fortunately, the meeting was held in a location with that most magical of social lubricants, vodka.

 

Are they still absolutely necessary? Of course not. But I see them like the Singles gatherings or the service club meetings or the bridge lectures; a chance to do the sociable thing and introduce people with a common interest who might not know each other yet. It's part of being a gracious host.

[mundaetraversa]

This is such an interesting conversation, I just had to chime in. I have to say, it is refreshing to see people who disagree with one another being entirely civil and polite anyway.

 

My personal (and therefore not objective) opinion is in favor of LGBT meetings. It is nice to know I am headed for a place that will feel safe, where no one will make nasty comments or stare at my wife and I. Of course, I live in Virginia - so the idea of a LGBT meeting gives me a lot of joy.

 

We do seek equality, and I understand the point some have made about separating ourselves and how that may hinder integration into mainstream society. I don't think we have to stay only in mainstream society to become a respected part of it, though. After all, people of different faiths are often respected by society, but meet others with similar minds in their own houses of worship. Subcultures are a part of a larger society - and the LGBT community has a vibrant and wonderful subculture. I am glad to celebrate that.

[BalconyGal]

This is such an interesting conversation, I just had to chime in. I have to say, it is refreshing to see people who disagree with one another being entirely civil and polite anyway.

 

My personal (and therefore not objective) opinion is in favor of LGBT meetings. It is nice to know I am headed for a place that will feel safe, where no one will make nasty comments or stare at my wife and I. Of course, I live in Virginia - so the idea of a LGBT meeting gives me a lot of joy.

 

We do seek equality, and I understand the point some have made about separating ourselves and how that may hinder integration into mainstream society. I don't think we have to stay only in mainstream society to become a respected part of it, though. After all, people of different faiths are often respected by society, but meet others with similar minds in their own houses of worship. Subcultures are a part of a larger society - and the LGBT community has a vibrant and wonderful subculture. I am glad to celebrate that.

 

I totally agree with everything you are saying including the fact that having a lively debate does not have to turn nasty. :)

[Clay Clayton]

Seriously this was a problem for some passengers? If you don't like the name of the gathering then don't go to it! I don't see what all the fuss is about either way. There have been countless arguments either way for how this gathering should be called. I'm just proud that NCL offers nightly gatherings and puts them in the daily. :)

 

I am with ya CrusinMaterial....hell even one night the Daily listed two of them...one at 6:15 and one at 8:30. The funny thing was it was near the end of the trip and everyone ended up showing at 7pm which was the usual time.

[rummenroman]

And further, using that logic why have a gay & lesbian section of cruise critic?

 

Good question....maybe so we can all gather posts for our post count?:D

 

Because I don't know about you but I am special and deserve a party!:D LOL

 

Really though.... Why do we have GLBT parties on land? or bars? or parades? or anything else? Why have a gay bowling league or softball league or anything else?

 

I have no clue, but I do know that i don't attend them. I will support and demonstrations, and political actions, but other than that.....Maybe it's because (at least in my home town) the "gay scene" is filled with petty queens who insist on causing drama. And there is one thing i hate worse than anything is a queens causing needless drama.

[emjsea]

AGREED!

 

Do they have straight parades?

What is a gathering of straight people called? Friends of Jim?

Are there straight cruises?

 

I entirely agree with the sentiment. When I am at home or abroad I make friends or aquaintances with people for who there are - not who they sleep with. Is that not the non-judgemental attitude everyone wants?

 

Then neither of you have to participate. Do what you want to do. Why is it your business and concern about the way the rest of choose to socialize?