Carnival cruise ship bartender accused of raping teen

[MrPete]

Don't let Pete drive you. His license is probably expired.

 

Not until 2013. But comparing this picture to the old one, taken in 1992, was QUITE scary!

[Aknot]

"Were going to give you a fair trial followed by a first class hanging" Cobb in the movie Silverado.

 

Love that movie.

[Nunu]

Not until 2013. But comparing this picture to the old one, taken in 1992, was QUITE scary!

 

lol

[GaNavy]

As usual with these threads that go on for several pages, this one went from a discussion of a crew member's allegedly illegal behavior to a back-and-forth about jury pools and drivers' licenses. Nice job, folks. Is there a moderator in the house?

 

As for the merits of the case, how interesting that everyone at first took the passenger's side without knowing anything at all about her or her family or her life, but to me it doesn't pass the smell test. The young lady was 14 - old enough to know (1) what behavior is appropriate and what isn't (both for others and for herself) and (2) what to do immediately when confronted by criminal or other threatening behavior. There's far too much that's not known here for anyone to be throwing away the key to this guy's jail cell.

 

Maybe he's a foul skunk who should never see the light of day as a free man again.

 

Maybe she came on to him. And told him she was 18. At night on the top deck of a cruise ship, could you tell for sure?

 

I don't know what happened here, and neither do any of the rest of us. But gratuitous moral outrage to me isn't any better than pc wishy-washy-ness.

[hoop4321]

Hoop, I'm not sure I can read this in any of the posts, where do you see he is getting more benefit of the doubt?

We cannot as a nation convict someone before they are tried, but everyone agrees whether she was willing or not it's a rape.

BTW I love your pictures of you sweet dog!!!

Carole

 

also, ppl tend to forget that alot of 14yr olds are more "older" than what it was when we were 14. so sad too to see 14yr olds having s*x, having babies. yes, she's still a child for us to see, but nowadays they "act" much older and even think their older than they really are. look around you.

 

For those saying a 14 year old is a 14 year old no matter what and a 30 year old could know better... etc .etc etc..

 

My sister in law is 14 years old, I am 25 - She looks OLDER then me. In fact, she could pass at a bar ANY DAY, and I'll be the one to get carded every time.

 

Add to the fact her mother let her roam the ship on our family cruise, and wear teeny tiny string bikinis, and shes very flirty and naive (just calling it as it is folks).... same thing could've EASILY happened to her, and in sil situation she could've/would've called "rape", but knowing her - it takes two to tango and its a completely different scenario.

 

I'm not saying he's not guilty, but what I am saying, is in today's day and age, you can never ever tell. Never. And kids these days at 10 are doing far more then playing barbies and GI joes..... let alone at 14.

 

There is a fine fine line between No. Don't. Stop, and No, Don't stop. No matter what age you are these days.

 

these are just a few....rape is rape, even if it isn't whoopie goldberg's rape rape definition. From the article, the guy is admittedly guilty. I don't think anyone is denying this guy his day in court. I just think that to insinuate that they girl was coming on to the guy is very disrespectful. It would be equally disrespectful to convict and condemn the guy if he said he did not do it, but again, he admitted it. I read an article about a woman in Saudi Arabia who was raped, and the guy said it was her fault because he was wondering what she looked like under her clothes....seriously??? Personally, i have a 14 yr old, and he is allowed to go certain places to meet up with friends, or the kids club. We check up on him constantly. Pop in here or there at unannounced times and God help the boy if he is not where he says he is. Personally, i am less worried about the crew, and more concerned about passengers drunk or not as they have far less to lose than a crew member. He is trained in martial arts, so that does give me some comfort that he could defend himself. After 8 years in martial arts, it was a very natural response when his cousin decided to mess with him at the entrance to disney. He thought he was being attacked, and my nephew was put into a heap before we could tell him to stop. Security was there in less than a minute....we thought we were going to be kicked out....we were embarrassed :eek: Surprisingly, the security chided my nephew when they learned that it was common knowledge that he was in martial arts, my son was commended and was told "those were some moves".

 

And, Carole, thanks:) She brings us such happiness every day, glad she shares some with you as well.

[GaNavy]

What the heck? :eek: You seem to know exactly how it happened. Sorry but I find your post insensitive and ignorant. Hopefully it never happens to anyone in your family. Rape is a horrible horrible thing that the VICTIM lives with for a lifetime.

 

Everytime there is a thread like this stupid people make stupid comments.

 

You too seem to know exactly what happened. It's not possible in your world that a 14-year-old girl could consent to having s<stupid asterisk>x? iIt could have been consensual - in which case it's rape, not because it was forced (that's what most people think of as "rape") but because the statute says her age makes consent immaterial ("statutory" rape). If you don't see the difference there, it's you who has the problem.

 

Forcible rape is a horrible thing. But you are assuming, without all the facts, that this was forcible. So tell me again the difference between you and the person whose post you flamed.....? :confused:

[sjn911]

these are just a few....rape is rape, even if it isn't whoopie goldberg's rape rape definition. From the article, the guy is admittedly guilty. I don't think anyone is denying this guy his day in court. I just think that to insinuate that they girl was coming on to the guy is very disrespectful. It would be equally disrespectful to convict and condemn the guy if he said he did not do it, but again, he admitted it. I read an article about a woman in Saudi Arabia who was raped, and the guy said it was her fault because he was wondering what she looked like under her clothes....seriously??? Personally, i have a 14 yr old, and he is allowed to go certain places to meet up with friends, or the kids club. We check up on him constantly. Pop in here or there at unannounced times and God help the boy if he is not where he says he is. Personally, i am less worried about the crew, and more concerned about passengers drunk or not as they have far less to lose than a crew member. He is trained in martial arts, so that does give me some comfort that he could defend himself. After 8 years in martial arts, it was a very natural response when his cousin decided to mess with him at the entrance to disney. He thought he was being attacked, and my nephew was put into a heap before we could tell him to stop. Security was there in less than a minute....we thought we were going to be kicked out....we were embarrassed :eek: Surprisingly, the security chided my nephew when they learned that it was common knowledge that he was in martial arts, my son was commended and was told "those were some moves".

 

And, Carole, thanks:) She brings us such happiness every day, glad she shares some with you as well.

 

Thanks...just bothers me that these serious "alleged situations" get so far from a fairly plain and simple report article. A smart person could be in vacation mode, assuming a little walk on top deck would be ok...not be flirting and get into a dark corner and grabbed into this "service room" too..could go either way.

[Crusin6]

As usual with these threads that go on for several pages, this one went from a discussion of a crew member's allegedly illegal behavior to a back-and-forth about jury pools and drivers' licenses. Nice job, folks. Is there a moderator in the house?

 

As for the merits of the case, how interesting that everyone at first took the passenger's side without knowing anything at all about her or her family or her life, but to me it doesn't pass the smell test. The young lady was 14 - old enough to know (1) what behavior is appropriate and what isn't (both for others and for herself) and (2) what to do immediately when confronted by criminal or other threatening behavior. There's far too much that's not known here for anyone to be throwing away the key to this guy's jail cell.

 

Maybe he's a foul skunk who should never see the light of day as a free man again.

 

Maybe she came on to him. And told him she was 18. At night on the top deck of a cruise ship, could you tell for sure?

 

I don't know what happened here, and neither do any of the rest of us. But gratuitous moral outrage to me isn't any better than pc wishy-washy-ness.

Start with post #1 and go on from there......he knew she was 14. BTW, he admitted to it...so he admitted to committing statutory rape.....if you don't want to believe him, ask him why he admitted to it then.

[Crusin6]

That's sad in a way and I disagree with you. There are tens of thousands of cruise ship employees...We have been very friendly with some while on board...for that week or two, we are friends. Just because occasionally one bad apple turns up, doesn't mean you shouldn't want to have a friendship, even a temporary one, with ANY individual you meet going through life.

you make a valid point here....but another valid point can also be made....that people we just meet and can seem to be safe, may not be and there is no way that one can be totally comfortable in making friends with a stranger...be it an hour a day or a week.

 

This case proves that they picked the wrong person to befriend...that's all. But how can you really blame them...as this person was truly a stranger to them and they had no way of knowing anything about him other than how well he took care of them at the bar....or how nicely he spoke to their daughter....especially regarding her looks.....because he did comment that she didn't look her age. However, regardless of how she looked...she is still protected by law.

[kyrisong1]

It scares me that most of the posters on this thead are potential jury pool members.

Hey Pete, I sat on a Grand Jury a couple years ago. Does that scare you? :p

Sad thing was I used my cochlear implant card to get out of it. The GJ date was the week before Christmas, and I had taken vacation time off work to be with my family:mad:

However, I served because they picked me to and I feel I did a good job, we didn't let them get away with murder:D

[MrPete]

Hey Pete, I sat on a Grand Jury a couple years ago. Does that scare you? :p

 

More than Nancy Grace! :D

[Chief Cruiser]

In Carnival's (and the journalist's) defense, the incident occurred in April 2009, but the investigation didn't begin until August 2009. I wouldn't be surprised if the data from security cameras is generally dumped before long 4 months has passed. The security cameras are for assessing immediate security risks, not aiding in criminal prosecution (or incidentally increasing Carnival's exposure to civil liability).

 

You may very well be right. I would like to add that in addition to the other attributes that you noted for the use of security cameras, I might take exception to your last [increasing Carnival's exposure to liability].

 

Videos often "save" a cruise line and decrease their liability because it captures what really happened, as opposed to what is said or conjectured to have happened. Same reasoning as to why video cameras placed in police offier's cars. It is supposed to keep everybody honest. Often times, it will help bring closure for families as well if they are able to see it and eliminate the "wonder what happened" aspect of the incident.

 

I read a couple of articles where NCL was able to prove some folks actually "jumped" overboard as opposed to "falling" that made them far less liabable. As the old saying goes, you live by the sword and you die by the sword. In this case, the accused has alledgedly admitted to the sex act whether it was consenual or not (and I know all the arguments about a 14 year old's ability to consent), and the video could shed light to what actually happened leading up to what went on behind closed doors.

 

But, if the data is not there, then it's her word against his as to how it happened since "if" it happened is apparently not in doubt. I would still like to know if anything was captured and if so what it shows or if the data was lost due to the time element between the occurrence and when it was reported and the investigation began.

[sjn911]

you make a valid point here....but another valid point can also be made....that people we just meet and can seem to be safe, may not be and there is no way that one can be totally comfortable in making friends with a stranger...be it an hour a day or a week.

 

This case proves that they picked the wrong person to befriend...that's all. But how can you really blame them...as this person was truly a stranger to them and they had no way of knowing anything about him other than how well he took care of them at the bar....or how nicely he spoke to their daughter....especially regarding her looks.....because he did comment that she didn't look her age. However, regardless of how she looked...she is still protected by law.

 

Good to see heart of issues...and sorry I could not get lemurcat's comment above yours on this post...

 

Fear has to be overcome and calculated risks have to be taken with knowledge of how to live on these "city ships"...healthy ways of getting out informantion is good..I thought the article wasn't too spalshy or sided...just the facts as given by a reporters human research. sjn911.

[Crusin6]

Good to see heart of issues...and sorry I could not get lemurcat's comment above yours on this post...

 

Fear has to be overcome and calculated risks have to be taken with knowledge of how to live on these "city ships"...healthy ways of getting out informantion is good..I thought the article wasn't too spalshy or sided...just the facts as given by a reporters human research. sjn911.

not sure what you are getting at here...but I think it has something to do with taking precautions while cruising.

[sjn911]

More than Nancy Grace! :D

 

 

Ok..the fun part..hyjacking a bit...:p...I can not stand her!!! Only speaking of Nancy Grace here.

 

Somehow the last haircut was too much like hers and I directly went to a fix it appointment..she can curl your hair..make it stand on end and if someone has her on long enough, give me a splitting headache!!:D

[LemurCat]

Good to see heart of issues...and sorry I could not get lemurcat's comment above yours on this post...

 

Care to actually quote me instead of making vague references? It generally helps me further illuminate the argument so you can dig your heels in a bit harder.

[sjn911]

Care to actually quote me instead of making vague references? It generally helps me further illuminate the argument so you can dig your heels in a bit harder.

 

Oh..not my intent at all..liked what you said is all..ie talking about safety on the ships and making friends for 2 weeks just wanted both of your coments in the same post on mine and it didn't work on same line. With watching surroundings and some risk prevention; the natural assumption for me and many is to make friends in that environment..I will..but sad to me that so much crap goes on that one has to think about it..that is all.

[LemurCat]

Oh..not my intent at all..liked what you said is all..ie talking about safety on the ships and making friends for 2 weeks just wanted both of your coments in the same post on mine and it didn't work on same line. With watching surroundings and some risk prevention; the natural assumption for me and many is to make friends in that environment..I will..but sad to me that so much crap goes on that one has to think about it..that is all.

 

Gotcha. Makes sense now!

[sjn911]

not sure what you are getting at here...but I think it has something to do with taking precautions while cruising.

 

Thanks Cru6, yes, Sarah.

 

One of my bad pain days today... I thought I was speaking clearly and generically enough. This is my point..having to take precautions all the time and how easy it is and even humanly good to let guard down and make more friends on vacation...but this crap is present too; unfortunately.

[kyrisong1]

More than Nancy Grace! :D

Now Pete that was ugly and unkind, I never have called you mean names:(:mad:

[sjn911]

Gotcha. Makes sense now!

Thanks Cat..today while trying some heat shower pain stretch things I thought of your saying and maybe borrowing a part of it...

 

Sometimes (unintentionally usually) I am just one more idiot "spitting in the windy void". :p:):).

[LemurCat]

Thanks Cat..today while trying some heat shower pain stretch things I thought of your saying and maybe borrowing a part of it...

 

Sometimes (unintentionally usually) I am just one more idiot "spitting in the windy void". :p:):).

 

We all are. And high-pain days suck. ;)

[MrPete]

Now Pete that was ugly and unkind, I never have called you mean names:(:mad:

 

LOL. Actually, I meant to say it the other way around, but have decided it's funny either way. Not at your expense, I hope you know! :D

[sjn911]

Now Pete that was ugly and unkind, I never have called you mean names:(:mad:

 

I see no comparison there from posts of yours I have enjoyed.:)

[sjn911]

We all are. And high-pain days suck. ;)

 

 

Thanks..it sure feels good to be able to seperate from it ant have fun here a bit.:o:)